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Barnyard Buddies:  Alpacas  |
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dargaonfly1054
True Blue Farmgirl
257 Posts
Georgette
Nicholville
NY
USA
257 Posts |
 Posted - May 25 2006 : 3:33:44 PM
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I've been reading up on alpacas and wondered if any of you fine ladies has any experiences with them. My mate and I seriously considering getting started on this venture. He is retired, so would be home during the day. We are doing a lot of "studying up on" this topic and how to write up a business plan and all... I'd love to hear anyone's experiences...........
Georgette
"We need the tonic of wildness, to wade sometimes in marshes where the bittern and the meadow-hen lurk..." Thoreau |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2006 : 08:23:40 AM
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I have read issues in Hobby Farms where a good breeding pair can cost well into the thousands.
But as with purebred dogs, cheaper options can also be found if you won't be after higher quality wool .
I'd love to have a few too, they are cute!
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MichelleTN
True Blue Farmgirl
118 Posts
Michelle
TN
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 07:00:51 AM
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I am hoping LisaBee will see this thread and post about her friend's farm....their Alpacas are so pretty!!
I will tell her about this thread so she can give you a website to check out.
And yes, a pair can cost thousands.
Michelle
My Blog: http://tangledthreadsandknottedyarn.blogspot.com/ |
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farmkitty
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Angela
Anderson
South Carolina
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 04:06:26 AM
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| Alpacas are part of my "Dream Farm ." I am new to the forum and am so pleased that I have kindred spirits to talk about them . Here in South Carolina alpacas are still a "new" concept and I get a lot of strange looks when I say I want a few! There is a few live web cams of a farm in NM, beautiful place and occasionally you can watch them being "groomed" and fed. I believe it's called Rio Bravo Ranch but I will look on my home computer where I have it bookmarked. |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 07:10:17 AM
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Good Morning Ladies
I have raised alpacas for ten years and I would suggest that you do you research very well! We have seen the market in Colorado go the way of the llamas and you do not want to be on the short end of the stick. I deal alot with breeders and over the years it has not been that pretty. I have tons of friends who still breed and show them, but that is all with other high paying income going into their farm. I have also seen the fiber go from something that was a niche to something not worth the expense of a good breeding pair. If you know your fiber market and I mean really know it, you can come out ahead. I ran all males (breeding and fiber)which gave me pure profit and alittle gamble. As of this year I have sold all my alpacas, bottom line is what you have to consider unless you wish to work off site to keep them. I wish you good luck with your process - hate to sound like a negative nelly, but I have seen too many wonderful people go under with this animal.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep |
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Bluewrenn
True Blue Farmgirl
1122 Posts
Erin
Texas
USA
1122 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 09:21:27 AM
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I liked the idea of having alpacas also but will probably look at llamas first. The alpacas in my area, while really nice, are priced in the thousands of dollars, some even as high as $25K or more, and I don't think I want to spend that much right now. I spent a lot of time looking at both and actually like the llamas just as well.
My Homesteading Journal http://toomyvara.livejournal.com
My craft journal http://bluewrenn.livejournal.com
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Bluewrenn
True Blue Farmgirl
1122 Posts
Erin
Texas
USA
1122 Posts |
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 3:49:16 PM
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I have been wondering about the economics of alpacas, glad to see this is being discussed. The people around this area with alpacas seem to be owners of other successful businesses, I was wondering if they needed to lose some money so as not to pay so much taxes?
I can't see how this can be profitable unless you put a LOT of time and money into marketing -- with the cost of the animals plus the DNA testing plus the advertising (have you seen the glossy alpaca magazines)? I mean the fiber is a luxury fiber but I would think you would need a lot of animals to make it pay for a shearer to come to your farm -- and what do you do with culls? Not like sheep where you can put it in your freezer.....
Just thinking out loud, I would love to hear more real-world experiences. Grace, what do you mean "the way of the llamas"? I hear they are good guard animals and my "dream farm" I am planning for retirement age would have a few to keep my fantasy Angora goats and Jacob sheep company.
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my blog at http://brightmeadowfarms.blogspot.com ,web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 6:10:34 PM
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The way of the llamas means when they started twenty years ago in the US the cost of those animals started at the $20,000.00 and up. Remember they are imports and just like anything new those who got in on the main floor saw the money. Now we have people sending the llamas to butcher houses in Wyoming because they can not give them away. I love my llamas and would never do that to them and trust me I did not pay that amount 15 years ago for mine. We now have people dumbing them on the highway and leaving them out in pastures to freeze. Also remember a llama is a great social animal, loves to have a purpose like guarding, packing, pulling carts and plows, and they too produce great fiber when pair with the right mate. Now we get to alpacas, they are lawn ornaments. They will not pack something heavier then a lunch sack, very few will guard and I have spent a lot of time training poor mannered alpacas. By the way that is a great business sideline to get into with these animals. I had twenty eight of them so it is not that I do not love the animal I just have seen in the past ten years it going down the tubes. The industry did not address what to do with all the males that are produced (in their own country they are eaten like male sheep) we also did not address the fiber industry so we have had to play catch up and still can not produce a product that is cost effective. We have co ops that the members still have not seen a dime but keep paying into it. You are also right, it was a great tax blanket, but now the IRS red flags "Alpaca Farms" as something to put under the microscope. We also are finding we do not have the medication, vet experts and such to care for these animals because they have not been here that long. We have the top camelid teaching hostpital here in colorado and yet most alpaca breeders can not afford the cost of treatment if they do get the animal up there.
As I stated before I hate to sound so negative but I also hate to see this wonderful animal be unable to thrive in this country because it was a get rich quick scam. It broke me heart when we sold our alpacas however my boys and I took a stand for an industry that is not up front with those who come to a show and heard only the good and no one is willing to talk about the down side. There is a down side in every animal but I resent hooking people with no animal experience, in the later stages of life and with their life savings on the line buying a dream that requires alot of work for very little return. Trust me I have sat on national alpaca boards (too many to be worth the time) trying to make it work for the little guy, but finally my youngest son got it right as we were driving home from another meeting "It is like spitting in the wind mom, all you are going to get is wet and dirty". So we had a family meeting and decided we could not continue sitting thru the hype. Now I really never want to step on someone's dream and by all means if alpacas are your passion I wish you well, in fact I can give you some names of wonderful breeders - but at 10K I tell all must clients make sure you know what you are doing!
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2006 : 10:04:04 AM
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I'd rather an alpaca than a llama. The llamas spit rumen when upset. Alpacas are a little more docile and not as moody.
My folks just returned from a trip to New Zealand. Land where the sheep outnumber the people. Mom thought alpacas would be a fun venture for us too, but it's the price tag holding us back. Chickens are enough for now...that and still waiting for our puppy to arrive in a few months.
I hear the price for alpaca wool is good, it's finding a source to buy the wool that can be tricky. And another fun tidbit.... when viewed under a microscope, sheep's wool has barbs in it...is why it is scratchy. Alpaca wool has no barbles, hence the softer feel.
Gosh don't we all wish money were no object sometimes...... |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2006 : 11:39:16 AM
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Both llamas and alpacas will spit as their way of communication when us two legged animals are not respecting their non verbal clues. Here at our farm, when I get a new llama or alpaca who has gotten away with spitting, I spend some one on one time and wait till they are giving me the signs of spitting and I spit first. This is the old alpha stage we must teach all animal if we wish to be in their pack, herd or flock. I have never allowed a camelid to spit at my farm to a two legged and remember that this is one form of communication they use within their herd. When I have gone to alpaca farms to retrain an animal I put a cotton sock over their musle so each time they spit the mess goes on them and the horrible smell goest up their nostriles and after a couple of those spits the alpaca learns what he is doing is not OK. It does not hurt him but rather is giving him a taste of his own medicine. As for the scales on a sheep fiber it is the same as what we have on our own hair. The coarse feel that you will find with some breeds is simply genetics. The bigger reason why alot of wool in the general products people come in contact with are ruff is because of all the chemical processing they do to make the yarn and then the finished products. I have shown customers the harsh chemicals that are used is like bathing you fiber in acid (in fact some are highly acid base. Then you add the other chemicals they use to strip out natural color and then dye new colors that are toxic to your respirtory system and skin and you have that lovely scratchy wool. Micron count in alpaca/llama and blood count in sheep and goats are the only real way to know the soft/fineness of an animal and then the treatment of that fiber is very important. When you get to be a fiber judge we can almost know that micron count without ever placing it under a microscope because we get our hands into thousands of fleeces from hundreds of breeds. I like to close my eyes and let me fingers do the work.
Hate to be too noisy but what kind of a puppy? I just love puppies and when it comes would you be willing to share pictures. New Zealand is a wonderful place to visit and I bet your folks had a blast. I have often considered moving there, great fiber country! The only thing stopping me is that my Pry's would have to be in isolation for 6 months and I just could not stand that, nor do I think the dogs would handle being caged for that long.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep |
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manda
Farmgirl in Training
49 Posts
amanda
corralitos
cA
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2006 : 10:31:37 AM
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Great topic!! I have an alpaca ranch and have done very well in the business. People can have different business plans and do well with alpacas. First ask yourself -what do I want to do with them. You can buy all male geldings and have a fiber ranch only. You can breed females and sell the crias (babies). You can have only stud males and sell breedings. There are ranches now doing "drive by" breedings so people can have their girls can stay at home but still be bred to an outside herdsire. It really depends on what you would like to do and how much time and money you wish to spend. I also have llamas and love them too. The key to remember is that llamas are mainly used as working animals (packing, guarding, etc..) whereas alpacas are used only for their end product of fleece. Also the price of alpacas has remained stable because we have a blood DNA registry in place and the USA is closed to any more registered alpacas from South America. Yes, Alpacas and llamas both can spit but that most owners agree that if you handle them the right way they are cooperative. I recommend to all new llama and alpaca owners to buy the book Camelidynamics by Marty McGee Bennet. She is the alpaca whisperer : ) NONE of my animals spit -only at each other during dinner time. I also spend a lot of time with my animals and they trust me. Never buy an animal that has not been worked with. I always ask the owner to halter them in front of me. If it's a rodeo session walk away.
Overall, alpacas have been a great experience for our family but definitely something to research before jumping in.
Manda |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2006 : 06:16:10 AM
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We had a Belgian Tervuren for 8 years. This is the dog I had always wanted, even from childhood. So for me, there is no other. Our new anticipated pup will also be a Terv.
Finally got to see some of my folks pix from New Zealand....LOTS of waterfalls! Very beautiful! Their national symbol (along with the kiwi) is the fern. Green fern on black background
Saw pix of all the sheep and alpacas too. The main herding dog these people use is called a "Strong Eye". Never heard of it, and most people probably won't. In New Zealand, their "paddocks" or filelds are too large, and the sheep herds number in the thousands. This type of dog has endurance that will outlast a Border Collie and most likely a Tervuren too. Strong eyes can run all day and not get tired, even a high strung Border would give out and brobably arrest before noon. Strong eyes can also jump on the backs of the sheep if they need to redirect. REALLY cool!
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2006 : 06:25:35 AM
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Grace,
Thanks for the education! Very cool you can speak firsthand and are actually a wool judge!?! My grandfather was head of the wool growers associtaion in Ohio and also a judge MANY years ago. He said you could alwyas tell a shearers hands because they were soft from all the lanolin.
Shearers in New Zealand wear a double layer of pants to protect their legs from the prickers and stickers in the wool. They wear sleevless tops to keep cool, and soft moccasins to keep from slipping.
So I guess reading between the lines you have a Great Pyranese? That's cool too! That's also A LOT of dog. We had thought about one of these or an Anatolian shepherd to be our outside dog and to protect our chickens, but that's a little much right now. Our Tervuren was our dog child and stayed w/ us in the house
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2006 : 12:04:47 PM
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Grace, Thank you for such insightful posts. I see the alpaca commercials on TV and all I can think of is EMU. Take a look at about any homesteading magazine and count how many alpaca ads there are.
As a fiber artist, I do like working with alpaca but it is not at all hard to find. At a fiber fair this past spring, I was able to get about two pounds of raw alpaca for $10. Last week a homesteading friend with alpacas sent me 2 adult & 1 jet black cria fleece ... for free. (Well she does want about 8 oz spun sock weight).
I won't own alpacas or any other animal that cost so much I would feel guilty about putting it in my freezer.
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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country lawyer
True Blue Farmgirl
1022 Posts
1022 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2006 : 1:11:00 PM
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In my fantasy of life on my one-day-it-will-really-happen farm, I always see an alpaca in the side yard. Thank you, Grace, for sharing all your experience and this great information. I appreciate your frankness and openness. Maybe my day-dream should be a llama instead? Or, a sheep? A goat? I need to tweek my daydream.
"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time."
James Taylor
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saras
Farmgirl at Heart
1 Posts
Sara
Tucson
Arizona
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2006 : 3:19:24 PM
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We recently acquired (through a rescue) two nubian-boer cross goats - brother and sister. The boy is a wether. They are about 8 months old.
The problem I have is their crying (especially the doe).
We built a very large pen for them next to our two horses, but frequently during the day (especially in the evening - dinner time) they cry for us (Me?). VERY loudly.
Almost every day (late afternoon) we let them out of the pen to run/forage/go crazy while we're cleaning the horse stalls - the goats are very fun and follow us around. They have lots of alfalfa, fresh water etc. They also cry if we take the horses out to ride - they think that the horses are part of their herd, I guess.
Any suggestions/comments?
Valley Green Ranch |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2006 : 3:33:56 PM
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Hi ladies
Like I said before we had twenty nine alpacas over the past eight years and some of them will always be in my heart but I am a farmer who does not have a job off the farm so things need to make the bottom line work. Cyndi you will get a laugh out of this I know two alpaca ranchers who started in the Emu Business and went bust, now they are doing the same with alpacas. I too get alpaca fiber just given to me in hopes that I will spread the word how great their fiber is - I still prefer Cashmere. You are right I have Great Pry's (2 adult females, 1 male and five 9 month old puppies) I am trying to place the puppies as I write. I do not want them to go to homes in town because these puppies have been working since they were born. When I say pup's I mean about the size of a lab. Pry's I find are the best protection for both my livestock and family. Rebekah if an alpaca touches your heart that's wonderful but do not count on getting rich or even paying the bills with him. I am always tweeking my dream so keep researching, visiting farm and fairs and you will know which four legged fur ball should come home with you. I have had people come and work with the different types of animals to see what really fits with them and that is better then any book can tell you. Have a great evening ladies and I am going back to my spinning - today I have created a rick rack style yarn out of a blend that I love to make - It is lambs wool that is dyed deep purple, cashmere in a robins egg blue. a bright rasberry angora and a white silk. I rough card it and then spin it so I have great contrast in slubs. when I ply it on handsewing thread it makes a wonderful rick rack look. Yesturday I spun my sweet Cashgora girl white girl - it looks like whipped cream when I was done. Love the handle of this yarn. Well, got to run or should I say peddle.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep |
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dkisselburgh
Farmgirl at Heart
5 Posts
Diana
East Aurora
New York
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 6:23:10 PM
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| I’m a little too close to this subject to be comfortable discussing it objectively. We just let our herd of 14 alpacas go six weeks ago, and I am still utterly mortified about the whole experience. We put everything we had into it and lost it all. Sales are going down all over, and we have found that prices are dropping rapidly. We never did come up with an honest, reasonable answer to people’s questions about why the animals are so expensive to begin with. I still can’t figure out why geldings, who have the best fiber and are supposed to be the future of the domestic fiber industry, can be found on rescue farms. We absolutely loved our animals – they are delightful, extremely intelligent and beautiful. But my best fiber sales – raw fleece for $45/pound, average 3 lbs. of prime fleece per animal – didn’t begin to cover expenses. And Grace makes an excellent point about all of the veterinary unknowns, given that the animal is so new to this country. We found our vet bills to me much higher than touted by the “industry”. If you’re interested in having a wonderful fiber animal around, by all means, get a couple of alpaca geldings. In our area, they go for around $500, and I’ve overheard other farms say they’d give them away “just to get rid of them.” But as for raising and trying to sell breeding stock, I would advise that you research, wait, watch prices, wait, and research some more. Oh yes, and listen to that little voice. I know I’ll be calling on her first from now on. |
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MariaAZ
True Blue Farmgirl
203 Posts
Phoenix
AZ
203 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 8:13:38 PM
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I've not heard that there was a big alpaca market, but this thread reminded me (as others have mentioned) of the big ostrich/emu market 15+ years ago. Hubby & I actually looked into emus, as ostriches at the time were WAY too costly. Back then, it seemed more emphasis was placed on the marketing of breeding stock than on developing the market for the meat, feathers, leather & oil. Breeding pairs of emus ran several thousands of dollars, ostriches where going for tens of thousands of dollars. My concern was the lack of infrastructure to support the industry; not every slaughterhouse would handle the birds, requiring the animals be shipped. Most of the farms we contacted had never sold any of their birds for anything but breeding. In fact we visited one rather large farm where the owner didn't even know how he'd sell his stock if it weren't for the demand for breeding animals.
Visit my blog at www.craftyfool.net |
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Buttercup
True Blue Farmgirl
1433 Posts
Talitha
Vermont
USA
1433 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 9:21:08 PM
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Diana,
Welcome!! So glad to have you! please go over to the welcome wagon and introduce yourself so we have a chance to say a proper hello and get to know you a bit better!!!
TO OTHERS:
I am so glad this got bumped because I have often wondered about them because my daughter wants one and I was worried what I would do with it! To Grace, Diane, and others here who have them or have had them, can we get by with having just one if they are in with other farm animals? Are they easy to manage for a young girl? How young can we get them, and if raised and handled on a daily basis, would they be tame and do well? Can you get enough fiber from one to even do anything with it?? I think they are beautiful and would not mind her having one or two as a pet, but do not want a business or anything from them. Can you train two to pull a cart??
Sorry so many questions, but would like to know from someone who is not trying to sell me something how they would be as a pet. Do they have good personalities etc. On the farm we hope to have a cow or two a horse or two or more, a few sheep and goats, and a miniture donkey, would this be enough company for one?
Can't wait to hear and thank you all so much!!!
Hugz!
Talitha
"If we could maintain the wonder of childhood and at the same time grasp the wisdom of age, what wonder,what wisdom,what life would be ours" |
Edited by - Buttercup on Apr 27 2007 09:07:35 AM |
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windypines
True Blue Farmgirl
4274 Posts
Michele
Bruce
Wisconsin
USA
4274 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 04:42:39 AM
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| This has been a very interesting, and truthful read. Something that everyone needs to know, if you are just venturing into any type of farming. Unless you can find your niche, the venture is not going to make you rich. Most of the time, if you are lucky, and work hard, you will get by. It is for the love of it, that is for sure. Michele |
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dkisselburgh
Farmgirl at Heart
5 Posts
Diana
East Aurora
New York
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 05:25:41 AM
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| Well, for us it was "one brief shining moment that was camelid"! As with any huge disappointment, the amount of learning that takes place was well worth it. Since we already know how hard we can work, all we need to do is turn our talents toward something else! We still have the farm, each other, and our kids - life is good! |
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MariaAZ
True Blue Farmgirl
203 Posts
Phoenix
AZ
203 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 10:41:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dkisselburgh
Well, for us it was "one brief shining moment that was camelid"!
Oh, I LOVE that! One of my favorite songs from a musical is Camelot :)
When we get a bit more land, I will probably look into a llama. I hear they are good pack animals for hiking.
Visit my blog at www.craftyfool.net |
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verbina
True Blue Farmgirl
231 Posts
randi
n.j
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 4:29:29 PM
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| hey grace,do you sell any of the fiber? i am having a heck of a time finding fleese. thanks randi |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2007 : 11:08:08 AM
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I was so sorry to hear about the loss of everything. We have seen that too many times in this market and I wished it would not happen. As for the questions - YES, I sell tons of fiber but that is because I have researched the market and I also sell a large selection of other fleeces and animals. If you are looking for something in particular please contact off list.
Next, the alpaca can be handled by a young girl if it has been trained and if the girl is comfortable with a large animal. Far too many times someone purchases a alpaca or llama and then the child freaks out when it does something and then we have behavior issues that get worse in the animal. Llamas if trained to be only with other animals is fine but an alpaca will need to have a buddy. If the farm raised them with other animals then you have a chance but not if you have taken them from their herd and then move them into being with others that they have no clue what is going on. That is when we see alpacas sit on smaller animals, chase or bite other animals or get kicked by a horse because they did something to spook the horse. If you have more specific questions you can email off site and I will gladly answer them.
Do not get me wrong we loved every (28) alpaca we had but I also have to make farm decissions that at times are not easy but need to be made. All of the alpacas are at wonderful farms and were sold at a profit but I have not seen that for many of my fellow alpaca farmers. I wish you all good luck with your venture and if I can be of any assistance I am here.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/larkspurfunnyfarm |
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Barnyard Buddies: Alpacas |
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Alpacas
