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Farm Kitchen:  Sourdough starter problem?  |
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 30 2007 : 09:44:17 AM
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I'm hoping some of you have tried this and can answer my questions. I finally decided to start my own sourdough starter from MJ's book (p.38) yesterday. Today I added the flour and water called for but instead of looking runny and bubbly like I expected, I have a very elastic blob. Is this normal? If not, could my elevation (4k) have anything to do with it? If elevation is a problem, can I save what I've started or do I need to start over?
We come from Nature, we go back to Nature; health & happiness in between requires intimacy with Nature. |
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Huckelberrywine
True Blue Farmgirl
1607 Posts
Michelle
Rosalia
1607 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2007 : 10:47:51 AM
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Lisa, I don't know much about elevation and starter. I've had them at sea level, and at whatever level Boise is, and we're at 2500 here. I think an elastic blob is probably okay. You could add a bit more water to it. We're going for a slightly-thicker than yogurt consistency. The amount of moisture in flour varies quite a bit, and this may have affected your starter. It could be that your flour was just really dry. If this is the case, just make up for it by adjusting your feedings to include more water. Do you have a way to show me a picture of it, so I can try to diagnose the problem better? Let me know, I'd be happy to help as much as I can, and if it just doesn't work, let me know that too and we'll get it figured out.
We make a difference. |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2007 : 11:42:07 AM
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Lisa,
If you're not locked into using one you've started, you can always use some of mine and go from there. I have one other to be sent out this coming week to another farmgirl.
Ronna |
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2007 : 07:33:23 AM
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Michelle, I don't have a digital camera, so I can't take a picture of it (I am considering getting one for my daughter's BD in July). I just had a thought this morning that maybe my kitchen just isn't warm enough? It's generally around 60 - 65 degrees this time of year (I only light the stove in the kitchen when outside temps fall below 20. Then my kitchen is much warmer).
Ronna, I really appreciate your offer! I have plenty of flour, so I don't feel locked in on this starter. Can starter survive in the mail? I would guess that a package from NV to my place (very small mountain town) might take 3 days. There is no such thing as overnight delivery here. The quickest would be 2 days.
We come from Nature, we go back to Nature; health & happiness in between requires intimacy with Nature. |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2007 : 10:28:11 AM
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Lisa,
I've sent it to England and Australia, also Alaska for Jo and all over the USA and Canada. Only one didn't arrive safely, to someone in AZ in summer and she left it in her mailbox over the weekend...it busted through a double freezer ziploc and was all over the inside of the box. Probably could have salvaged enough to feed and use, but don't think she did. Send me your snail mail address and I'll get some off to you. Larronna@aol.com be sure you type two R's and two N's, the person who has the other screenname is not nice and won't forward to me :(
Ronna |
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Huckelberrywine
True Blue Farmgirl
1607 Posts
Michelle
Rosalia
1607 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2007 : 3:45:30 PM
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I don't think the consistency would be due so much to your kitchen temperature as to the ingredients / moisture content. Ronna is a dear, and I love her starter. (Thanks again...mmm)
We make a difference. |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2007 : 9:21:27 PM
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I'm blushing Michelle.....thanks for the sweet words.
Those who know me know I love to share. I have Lisa's address and now have to send starters to her and Sheryl-lyn this week. Need to go shop more so I can write checks and have more check boxes for starter....is that a good excuse or what?
Ronna |
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Huckelberrywine
True Blue Farmgirl
1607 Posts
Michelle
Rosalia
1607 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2007 : 9:15:50 PM
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Darn good excuse. :) So, Lisa, how are you doing with this?
We make a difference. |
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Tina Michelle
True Blue Farmgirl
6948 Posts
Tina
sunshine state
FL
USA
6948 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2007 : 9:44:46 PM
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Ronna,
I took my starter out of the fridge today, after well..about a month or so..ha..
my daughter saw the "hooch" on the top and said "oh mom, that stuff just looks disgusting"
I assured her that it was supposed to look like that.. and was perfectly fine.
She said.."oh I can handle it once it's all stirred together, but it's when it has seperated a bit it looks yuck" haha..gotta love it when we can gross out the kids huh?
But she'll have a different opinion when she tastes the bread...grins.
Anyhow..I am getting ready to make some bread in about a day or so... I like adding a bit to it for a couple of days on the counter, allowing the lid be just ever so slightly ajar.
I keep mine in a tupperware container.
At first my family didn't know that it was my bread starter..they just thought it was a science experiment gone bad when they saw the "hooch" on the top of it. I told them not to dare throw it away!
Anyhow..I'll be baking bread here in about a day or so.
Thanks again Ronna.
~Seize the Day! Live, Love, Laugh~ |
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City Chick
True Blue Farmgirl
1402 Posts
Deb
Chattanooga
TN
USA
1402 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 12:16:05 PM
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I just mixed up a starter from Back Home magazine:
3-1/2 cups flour
1 tbsp. sugar
1 pkg yeast
2 cups water
I have a blob as well.
Thinking I may have to add some more water. Should the water ratio be equal to the flour? |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 7:10:06 PM
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Deb,
A sourdough starter snob will tell you if it has sugar and yeast, it's not really sourdough starter. But, if you're happy with it, that's all that matters.
A true starter gets the natural yeast spores from the air and develops slowly. I think it's a dirty trick to play on people, to give a recipe as such and then when it doesn't have the sourdugh tang, they're disappointed. I'm not familiar with Back Home magazine, so can't comment on why they wouldn't publish the authentic way to make your own starter.
Ronna |
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Tina Michelle
True Blue Farmgirl
6948 Posts
Tina
sunshine state
FL
USA
6948 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 8:43:08 PM
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Ronna,
I made some yummy sour dough bread today...
I added a cup of bread flour and a cup of water to my starter ..did this for two days,(so that was 2 cups flour and 2 cups water all total for 2 days of letting it sit at room temperature) and stirred with a wooden spoon each day, kept lid ever so slightly ajar..
Then today..was bread baking day:
I took out 1 cup of starter and to it I added a packet of yeast
Then in a mixing bowl I combined
3 cups bread flour
1 cup sugar
1 egg
1/3 cup crisco
and mixed
then as needed I added extra sourdough starter to get the dough to the right consistency
Turned out and kneaded it on the counter.
Shaped into two loaf shapes.
Placed into greased pans.
To get my dough to rise:
I got a dish towel wet, and zapped it in the microwave for about 2 minutes and set my bread loaf pans in the microwave on top of the towel..
I did this several times during the day.Until I was satisfied that the dough had indeed doubled in size and filled my pan.
By dinner time..my bread had risen well.
(of course if I was an "old pro" at this it probably would have taken less time..but ahh well..ha)
Anyhow..I baked the bread for 30 minutes at 375 degrees.
I now have two loaves of yummy sour dough bread that tastes alot like the sourdough bread used for the slotsky's type sandwich bread..which I happen to really like.:0)
Anyhow..I know what we'll be making our sandwiches with during the weekend.
Thanks again Ronna.
I'm getting better at this sourdough bread thing.:0)
~Seize the Day! Live, Love, Laugh~ |
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Huckelberrywine
True Blue Farmgirl
1607 Posts
Michelle
Rosalia
1607 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 9:24:35 PM
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Deb, one of my starters has a real tang to it. If that is the kind of sourdough you like, I'd be happy to share it with you. E-mail me your info, and I'll share. Actually, I've got 4 of them..what kind of sourdough flavor is your favorite? :)
You know, I wonder if "blob" isn't a baby starter's natural form? Will it mature into a different texture? I should have taken notes when I started this last bunch of starters...seems like I was concerned about their texture, but they just sort of resolved themselves after a few feedings.
We make a difference. |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 10:41:14 PM
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Tina Michelle...a big atta farmgirl for you and a gold star for your forehead! Does anyone remember when teachers gave out the gummed gold stars when you were good? :) I'm so happy you're enjoying baking sourdough. Remember, when it gets really hot and baking is the last thing you want to do, the starter will survive just fine in the back of the fridge until you want to refresh it again. Just mark it so no one helps out and tosses it thinking it's gone bad. Makes my heart happy to know others are baking with something I started years ago.
Ronna |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 10:50:34 PM
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Michele and Deb...if a starter with yeast and sugar just sits as a blob, there's a problem. Dead yeast, water too hot that killed the yeast; something not right. Big pros and cons on proofing yeast, but if in doubt, better to proof and not waste time and ingredients.
I honestly don't remember how long it took for my Sunset Magazine yogurt starter to show signs of life, been too long. Seems like a day or so until small bubbles started. I still think being so close to where the wagon trains crossed the desert headed for California helps; maybe I just want to think they helped mine to get going. Lots of Basque sheepherders in this area too and they kept starter in their wagons.
Ronna |
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jo Thompson
True Blue Farmgirl
603 Posts
Jo
the mountainside of the Chugach
in Alaska
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 10:56:58 PM
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Ronna, you're the starter woman, yes oh yes....... girls Ronna's starter doesn't need anything extra, yeast or not, just Ronna's starter, organic flour and salt, that's it! Oh and Ronna your sourdough went very nicely with Cioppino tonight, you are the queen! jo
"life is drab without a lab"
http://homepage.mac.com/thomja/Anchorage/PhotoAlbum15.html |
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Tina Michelle
True Blue Farmgirl
6948 Posts
Tina
sunshine state
FL
USA
6948 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 11:10:37 PM
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LOL Ronna..yeah I remember gold stars.
~Seize the Day! Live, Love, Laugh~ |
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Daisy
True Blue Farmgirl
107 Posts
Daisy
Thistle Sprig Farm
NW Indiana
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - Apr 07 2007 : 06:52:23 AM
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I am using the sour dough starter from the Nurishing Traditions book. It's quite simple. However I don't particularly care for the recipe for bread that the NT book uses. If you like a lot of wang, and like heavy bread you might like it. However my mom recently sent me this recipe and I made it yesterday. UNBELIEVABLE! I'll post a pic at the end of my recipe. Ok, scratch the pic idea, I can make bread but I can't post pics! LOL I had to make some changes to the recipe because it just didn't seem right but it made fabulous bread! I'll put my changes in (). Also this recipe is great because it's a one rise recipe.
Sourdough Bread
6 c **Montana brand flour (**Prairie Gold or Bronze Chief)(I used 9 cups of white flour but will try to use more ww next time)
1/4 c sugar
1 T salt
2 T instant yeast
2 c warm water ( I think for more of a sd flavor you could substitute some of the water for more sd starter)
1/2 c canola oil
3/4 c soudough starter
1 egg, lightly beaten
Mix dry ingredients
Mix liquid ingredients and add to dry
Mix to form dough. Knead for 10 minutes.(I used my Kitchen Aid)
Let rest until depression pushed into dough remains.
Divide dough into loaves
Put in greased bread pans.
Let rise until doubled ( it took maybe 1 hour)
Bake 350 degrees until done.( I forgot to time it)
**Montana brand flours:
Prairie Gold is 100% w/w flour made from hard white spring wheat with texture and flavor similar to white flour.
Bronze Chief is 100% w/w flour made from hard red spring wheat and has the traditional "nutty" flavor of w/w flour.
Sourdough Starter:(I didn't use this starter recipe. I used the one from NT which has no yeast and worked great!)
1 medium potato
3 - 4 c water
1 c flour
1/2 c sugar
1 T dry active yeast
Use glass, plastic or stainless container to hold starter
Boil potato in water until very soft
Add more water if necessary
Mash potato in water until is a puree (or puree in blender)
Let cool to lukewarm - there should be at least 2 c liquid.
Sprinkle dry active yeast on top of liquid and let it work
Add flour and sugar and mix well
Let stand overnight and feed the next day with:
1 c water, 1/2 c flour and 1/4 c sugar
Let stand overnight
It is now ready to use in recipes. If it is used every day, feed after each use
1/2 as much flour as water and 1/2 as much sugar as flour used
Can be stored in refrigerator for up to two weeks
Remove from refrigerator the day before needed and feed with warm water in the proportions listed above
Let stand overnight before use.
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Daisy
True Blue Farmgirl
107 Posts
Daisy
Thistle Sprig Farm
NW Indiana
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - Apr 07 2007 : 7:04:40 PM
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| Well, I made the bread again today and it didn't get as large. I'm thinking yesterday maybe I added more liquid then I should have and in turn had to add more flour then it called for. Today I made it and only needed the 6 cups of flour. Whatever mistake I made yesterday it made the bread much nicer! LOL |
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2007 : 2:02:13 PM
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Well, gals, mine might have made it but I had to go out of town for 2 days and when I got back my starter had mold on it. My husband never remembered to do anything with it. I didn't think to remind him, either. It was pretty runny underneath but I had to chuck it. I might try it again this weekend. While I was gone, I stopped at an antique store and found a really nice crock for cheap just for my sourdough! So, now that I have a nice container for it, I'll just have to try again...
Huckleberrywine, How do you get different flavors of sourdough if you start them all the same way in the same kitchen? Or are they started differently?
We come from Nature, we go back to Nature; health & happiness in between requires intimacy with Nature. |
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Huckelberrywine
True Blue Farmgirl
1607 Posts
Michelle
Rosalia
1607 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2007 : 5:40:24 PM
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Ah-ha. Lisa, that is a good question, and I've been wondering how this happened too. I have some theories. I make home-made wines, and they are aging/working in my 100+ yr. old kitchen. I think there must be a lot of yeast varieties in this environment. It's clean, don't get the wrong idea, I have to be super clean/sterile with all the wine making...ugh, that could really spoil a lot of hard work. I like the idea of a wine-yeast-influenced sourdough, but I don't know how to microscopically verify this idea.
Also, I used 3 different recipes (all without added yeast) and Ronna sent me some of hers (Thank You!). The principal ingredients add flavor, or favor the growth of some yeasts but not others. So, using different recipes, or ingredients of different brands for the same recipe, or in the case of Ronna's starter, age, environment (mmm...Basque yeast?), and variations in the brands we chose to follow the recipe, or the spoon we stir with, all can put a different spin on the resulting flavor.
Sourdough is harnessing and using yeast biology, and biology always involves variety. That's one of the things I love about yeast and products made with yeast (wine, bread). There's so much variety possible. It's fun.
We make a difference. |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2007 : 6:26:20 PM
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Ann (Phil's Ann) did an experiment with my starter and hers from King Arthur flour. Even though they smelled differently, the bread tasted the same when baked.
Michelle, no wonder yours do well, the wine yeasties are in the air at your house.
Mold or turning red are for sure good reasons to toss out starter.
Ronna |
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2007 : 12:41:01 PM
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So, I'm wondering now if I can start one from soy flour, rye flour, amaranth flour as well as white and wheat?
We come from Nature, we go back to Nature; health & happiness in between requires intimacy with Nature. |
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Daisy
True Blue Farmgirl
107 Posts
Daisy
Thistle Sprig Farm
NW Indiana
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2007 : 12:58:16 PM
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| I use Rye in my starter. It's the recipe from Nurishing Tradtions. When I made my bread it has no taste of rye to me though. If I used rye flour to make my bread I'm sure it would though. I have also used whole spelt but it tends to make my starter seperate and a bit watery. I'm kind of new to SD so I'm not sure if that's a problem or not. |
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Huckelberrywine
True Blue Farmgirl
1607 Posts
Michelle
Rosalia
1607 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2007 : 5:49:06 PM
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I love experimenting with recipes, don't you? Lisa, I would go ahead and give it a try, what have you got to lose? Or, you may get a starter going, and then add those flours when you make your bread, biscuits, etc. What the yeast use for food is the nutrients in the flour. It depends on what nutrients are available in the other-than-wheat flours for the yeast to eat and reproduce. If you are having a hard time "catching" yeast, "import" some. Try a recipe that calls for active yogurt, or peach leaves, or potatoes (they all carry yeast in/on them). It's all about what you are happy and healthy with.
We make a difference. |
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2007 : 3:46:22 PM
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Sounds good. I'll just have to try some experiments as time permits. Thanks for the info.
We come from Nature, we go back to Nature; health & happiness in between requires intimacy with Nature. |
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Farm Kitchen: Sourdough starter problem? |
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Sourdough starter problem?
