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Here's to Your Health:  My Natural Childbirth Experience  |
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vintagechica
True Blue Farmgirl
438 Posts
Eren
Poolville
TX
USA
438 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 10:07:07 AM
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Dianne, in the US, yes we do have choices about how we birth our babies IN hospitals. Most US hospitals have balls, tubs, an IV that allows you to walk around (cant remember what that is called now) etc. But most doctors do not tell you about those options unless you ask and are a strong advocate for the kind of birth care you want. Even our military hospital had midwives (and doulas) on duty to help you deliver if you asked specifically for them (which I knew to do). And then the midwifes supported me in the decisions I chose. But those choices are not readily advertised so you have be a little pushy sometimes.
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A sure way to avoid housework...live outdoors.
Visit me anytime at my blog:
www.vintagechica.typepad.com |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 10:22:56 AM
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just for an additional fact to consider, the usa ranks 46 down from 27 within ONE YEAR in the world for infant mortality. There are 45 other places in the world-industralized societies and otherwise-where it is safer to give birth than here and do you want to know what the norm for birthing is? Home, not hospital for the majority of those countries. that fact is current as of January this year.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 10:25:36 AM
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and just fyi, a lot of 'medical professionals' are coming around (moreso in europe than here) and admitting that yes, homebirth is safer for a healthy woman. and the majority of facts and info that I find and supply are done independent of bias....taking info from groups on both sides of the fence. it is never my agenda with anything that I hold firm to to have biased information. thats not how i think or operate and expect the sdame from other people.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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primjillie
True Blue Farmgirl
138 Posts
Jill
Antelope
CA
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 11:19:55 AM
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| While I agree somewhat that homebirth is probably less stressful than a hospital birth for a healthy woman with NO COMPLICATIONS, this exempts a lot of women. I think what we are trying to say, Tasha, is not everyone is in the position, healthwise or trustwise, to have a homebirth. Most of us are cautious and willing to listen to a trusted doctor that has more education and experience that we will ever hope to have. (Not saying that all doctors know everything, because they don't.) But in my situation, having a hospital birth saved my life and my babies, and I can't discount that, no matter what the studies say. Nor can I discount the fact that several babies I know who had cord wrap would not have survived if they hadn't been delivered by c-section. I wish we could all agree that a woman needs to do what is right for her and baby, be it a homebirth or a hospital birth, natural or not. As for the stats on infant mortality, I have my own ideas about that in the US and it doesn't have to do with birthing styles (but that's another discussion). |
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Carolinagirl
True Blue Farmgirl
486 Posts
Kim
Rutherfordton
NC
USA
486 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 12:29:04 PM
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Now that I can speak for a "natural" birth (the one where dd decided when and where she would be born), and what I assume some would call an "un-natural" birth (I decided where baby would be born)... I can offer an valid opinion about what can/does happen in hospital births. It CAN be a good experience. One CAN have an excellent doctor, who listens to one's wishes and enables one to enjoy a positive birth experience. A birthing center CAN be a place where life happens in an exciting, wonderful, positive way, not the negative, demeaning way that many homebirth advocates present it. Both mine were born in hospitals. One with epidural, one without any mother medications- before or after. One was born with fetal monitor attached, the other without any "tools" necessary/wanted. Both were born in caring birthing facilities where I had whirlpools tubs at my disposal, private rooms, immediate access to my child (the second was whisked away shortly thereafter because she had arrived so quickly I didn't make it to a delivery room- the birth was in the birth center triage)...I couldn't have asked for more from my doctor or the facility during the birth. Frankly, if the births had been at home, I might have been more comfortable, but my husband and child would not have. And that's a consideration for me too.
With all due respect Tasha, how can you offer a valid opinion about hospital births if you haven't had one?
I believe that the place that the mother is most comfortable, most safe and happy is where she should give birth. And I believe that if the baby presents itself out of a woman's body, by any means, then it is a natural birth. That's how nature works.
Kim in NC |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 12:56:04 PM
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I HAVE had a hospital birth and that is what led me to have Zoe at home. My hospital birth was more than the word terrible can convey. my placenta was ripped from my body. i wasn't given my baby until 15 minute after she was born for ZERO reason. I was coerced into an induction 4 DAY EARLY because my dr. had a vacation starting the day before I was due. I was given an epidural because I was "being too loud" moaning through my painful contractions (only later to find out that pit can make contrations so much worse than natural contractions.) That isn't even all of it and I will spare you of the goriest of details. After grace's birth the gave her sugar water (because they hadnt given her to me right away to nurse her....thus the reason my placenta wasn't expelling on their timeline of 15 minutes....) they gave her a pacifier and adminstered shots and drops all against what I said no to.
I have experience of some of the worst kind when it comes to giving birth in a hopsital, so once again, do not think for a minute that my opinion is one sided, because that is not how I operate in any decision I make.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 1:03:03 PM
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and I will be so bold as to disagree with your statement that however a baby is born is natural. Nature did not intend for babies to be cut from a mother's body, or sucked out by a vacuum after an internal fetal monitor is stuck in their head.
My birthing experience is dual and bad expoeriences in the hospital is not just limited to birth for me. I nearly died of a kidney infection because a doctor was so arrogant to think I did not know what i was taling about....
When it comes to my children and my body, the only person's knowledge I trust is my own, and I am honestly highly learned about pregnancy and birth before I even started on any sort of path to midwifery...it is jsut in my nature to always want to learn.
I knwo that there are times, such as a tranverse lie that DO need an intervention, however again, more often than not medical interventions and meddling ARE NOT NEEDED fot a baby to be born healhty and perfect.
As harsh as this is going to sound, I do not buy the, "If I hadn';t gone to the dr. my baby would have died" so often we are scared into thinking these things that simply are not true. A prolapsed cord of a footling or frank breech, or a wrapped cord are not immediate causes for a rush to the hospital OR a c-section. They simply are not.
I do not belive that enough women really know about thier bodies, an thier functions. Again, we (collectively) go to Drs who are trained in symptom management for disease control. PREGNANCY AND BIRTH ARE NOT DISEASES!
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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Carolinagirl
True Blue Farmgirl
486 Posts
Kim
Rutherfordton
NC
USA
486 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 1:26:52 PM
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Tasha, I respect your opinions and that you have had a bad experience with birthing in a hospital. Unfortunately, it sounds like you were not a strong enough person then to make your decisions known and to make the doctors follow through. Did you trust your doc before the hospital experience? If you didn't, why did you continue seeing him/her? Why didn't you object when the vacation thing came up? If you did trust your doctor before the birth incident, that would be the only excuse, IMO, to blame him and the birthing facility completely.
The point I want to make, that I would like you to consider, is that your strong opinion (and what you are offering is your opinion backed up by your research and presentation of facts) is that I think you are making each and every one of us who chose or had to do something besides squatting in the front yard for birth (said sarcastically, of course)feel that we are less than women, that we did something stupid and harmful to our children and that we have thusly harmed them for life. That just isn't true. Each person's experience is their own. What's good for me, or you, or any one of us, isn't good for the other necessarily, and all "facts" don't apply in any individual situaion.
I've been in this argument before, with women like you who insisted that they knew better/best and there was no other way. That attitude is what drives women away from the possibility, the choice, the glimmer that they may want to consider a homebirth, or a midwife, or even birth without epi or pain meds. Your approach is condescending and painful to those of us who went through labor and childbirth as women, just like you. And because we have experienced that in common, we should respect each other and be supportive of another's CHOICE.
A woman would be stupid not to have prenatal care- that is medical care, whether by a doc or a midwife. Why is going to the hospital any different from those regular visits?
You're right- pregnancy and childbirth aren't diseases. I'm wondering if lunacy is.
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cmandle
True Blue Farmgirl
846 Posts
Catherine
Minneapolis
MN
846 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 1:27:01 PM
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I don't think that anyone on this forum would argue that pregnancy and birth are diseases, Tasha.
But now we're going down the "what is natural" track. Well, our brains are Nature-designed. Our large homo Sapiens brains came up with some great solutions to prevent mothers and children die in childbirth. How is that unnatural?
Maybe Nature did intend for some babies to be born by surgery. Nature designed the people who came up with it (way before Dr. Cesarean did, the procedure goes way back in time...).
If you can come out and say that you don't buy my argument (which you certainly can), then I can say the same. Shall we agree to disagree?
By way of offering a bit of peace to the topic though, let's remember what Jill said:
"I wish we could all agree that a woman needs to do what is right for her and baby, be it a homebirth or a hospital birth, natural or not."
I do agree with that.
Catherine
p.s. Part of my bristling at some of these statements comes from a conversation I had with that cousin's fiance (homebirth midwife). After I told her about Jackson's birth story, she told me that he hadn't been born. Simple as that. A C-section meant that my son was never born.
Yes. Yes my son was born. He was born on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 at 4:55 a.m. by C-section and had a huge cheering section clapping and welcoming him to the world. He was born.
I recognize that it was not Tasha or anyone on this forum who said that he was not born, but this is simply NOT a simple black and white issue. It's just not.
http://yogurtandgranola.blogspot.com |
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Carolinagirl
True Blue Farmgirl
486 Posts
Kim
Rutherfordton
NC
USA
486 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 1:28:37 PM
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| Oh- and an epidural is different from pitocin. Pitocin induces the birth, and can make the labor painful (aren't most labors painful?), but not the epidural. It relieves the pain. |
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primjillie
True Blue Farmgirl
138 Posts
Jill
Antelope
CA
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 1:31:36 PM
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| Tasha ~ I think you are not one sided because of your wonderful home birth, but because of your traumatic hospital birth. All hospital births are not like that. It bothers me to hear you say hospitals aren't needed for cord problems, footling breech, etc. Yes, they are. It is our responsibility as these babies' mothers to make sure they are born healthy and safely into this world and to not take chances because we should know ourselves better than anyone else. If you want to take these chances, go ahead, but please don't preach to us that we are wrong if we don't. I don't take unneccesary chances ~ I want to birth safely, my children were in car seats, I didn't let them play in the streets, they wear helmets to ride bikes, etc. I feel for you after reading about your hospital birth, and hope somewhere in the future you can come to terms with it and be grateful you have a healthy, wonderful daughter from it. |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 1:41:26 PM
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CPM 2000 study
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7505/1416?ehom
Safety in Birth Begins with Midwives
http://www.cfmidwifery.org/pdf/safety4.pdf
Planned Homebirth is Safe for Most Mothers and Babies
http://www.cfmidwifery.org/pdf/safety.pdf
Home versus hospital deliveries: follow up study of matched pairs and outcomes.
http://www.bmj.com/archive/7068pr4.htm
The Safety of Homebirth
http://chetday.com/homebirthresearch.htm
Making Birth Safe in the US--BLOG
http://www.hospitalbirthdebate.blogspot.com/
more links
And I never said that the epidural made my contractions worse. I said the pit(pitocin) from the induction did.
I do not seek medical care during my pregnancy either and Ihave healthy babies...and I am perfectly sane and I urge you to stray away from the personal insults....I take care of myself as it is, so why would that change during pregnancy? Am I suddenly going to do things that are abusive to my body?no. I do not need a dr to tell me to take care of myself when it is something that I already do out of common sense. Pregnancy is not an exception to taking care of myself. I take vitamins daily as it is, I take folic acid daily as it is....that is what a dr is going to tell me to do but oh, I guess here is the bonus, unnecessary vaginal exams. Sorry, I do not need it. I have healthy pregnancies and birth witout it so I must be doing something right.
ONCE AGAIN, I am not saying that there are not itmes when intervention is necessary. Catherine, I am so happy that jackson is alive and healthy and that his cord was around his neck, while dealable, may not have been in your case and i am in no way saying he was not born or that you are less of a woman. I am simply saying that women are not being told all that there is to know and they are not seeking it out.
and to answer your question kim, about most labors painful, I have to say no. I didn't have pain birthing zoe. What I did have pain iwth was birthing her placenta. the contractions with birth were eally tolerable and I didn't cry out, but with the placenta, it was really hard work and longer labor than I had laboring over Zoe.
Also, I DID trust my doctor going into everything. I trusted her 100% of the way and then, once I was on the delivery bed, did it all go awry. She blew trust out the window. I laboring woman does not need to hear that her primal noises of birth are too loud. she needs to make those noises. You are righ tin that I was not a strong enough person then to tell them to go to hell, there are many factors outside of pregnancy and birth that are reasons for that. regardless, a birthing woman does not need to hear that what she is doing is bothering people....the more women I can help to understand that, the better...
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
Edited by - GaiasRose on Mar 23 2007 1:46:04 PM |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 1:44:32 PM
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Jill, I entirely have come to terms with it in the essence that Grace's birth, however terrible it was and however much I wish to give it back to her, paved the way for her sister to be born in the manner she was as well as any other babies I give birth to.
I truly urge you to not disregard the links I give you. breech postions can be born out of a hospital, cord unwrapped, etc....i wont continue to post the links if they are going to be entirely dismissed as biased, when truly they are not if you take the time to read them.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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Lizabeth
True Blue Farmgirl
560 Posts
Washington
560 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 1:52:48 PM
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Not only does the woman need to do what is right for her and her baby, but in a loving partnership the husband can have an intuitive sense about what is best, too.
Though some will disagree, here is something to ponder: Rebekah brought up an important point, this world is fallen. Because of sin, the world (people, plants, animals et al) is not as it was intended.
If one starts from the premise that perfectly natural would be a state without sin; and one then recognizes that this world is corrupted by sin; the birth process is inevitably "un-natural" no matter how unaided the event may be.
Certainly attacking a woman and carrying out unneeded interventions is wrong and part of the operation of the fall (I am so sorry you experienced this Tasha). But perhaps, as Catherine has stated, it is an improvement, and an attempt to correct what is fallen to have some interventions.
http://www.handcraftsbyheather.com |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 2:00:19 PM
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yes, but Lizabeth, not everyone believes that the world is a fallen world because of sin. It is not a tenet I hold to that is for sure and I know I amnot the only one on this board who does not believe that tenet.
corrupt in some respects, sure, because absolute power corrupts absolutely. Doctors have been made into gods in our society and they are nothing more than people who went to school a little longer than most for something that we can all very easily learn without spending 10 years in university. it isn't that hard to learn about one's own body and how it works in every capacity.
agian, though, sin is not a tenet that I hold to and I am not alone in that, so it plays no part in my opinions and the way facts I learn are processed regarding birth.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 2:07:25 PM
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I just dont see how medical abuses toward pregnant and birthing women can be justified saying that the world is sinful....blame the devil, it is a cop out (and I mean no religious offense, but I find often that in a lot of contexts, "the devil made me do it" is often abused to jsutify behaviors.)
We stray into the area of people not taking responsibilty for them selves with that arguement, imo.
I respect that religion plays a big role for a lot of women, and it does for me just not in the same way. Sin is not part of my life. It jsut isn't. so there is not a line that can be drawn between gynecological abuses and sin.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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Carolinagirl
True Blue Farmgirl
486 Posts
Kim
Rutherfordton
NC
USA
486 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 2:27:51 PM
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I think that prenatal care is essential in pregnancy. If you have no prenatal care- not by a doc or by midwife- then you are not doing the best for your child. There- that's my opinion. And it's valid, and I can present all kinds of facts to back me up. My God, girl, do you think that all prenatal care is about a doctor giving you vaginal exams? I had two- one to determine my health and the beginning of the pregnancy and a second when I was terribly close to determine thinning and dilation. I assume that women have those with midwives as well. It seems that your blinders are so big that you can't take into account that everything is not as you experienced it. No personal insults are given here, just simple facts that prenatal care is good for a pregnant woman and good for her baby. What I am offering is no different than your opinion that only natural home birth is best.
Tasha, you still didn't hear me, and you aren't hearing the other women say similarly- your presentation of your opinion, while it is your right to do, forces upon us the idea that we are un-natural in our childbirthing, that something is wrong with the decisions we made/make. That isn't true.
If you are really a midwife/doula in training, then you need to amend your approach to reassure women, to give a woman the respect and courtesy she deserves. I wouldn't dare recommend a midwife or doula (or a doc for that matter)who held such a lofty notion of herself, that she was the end-all and be-all of pregnancy and childbirth. Anyone, doc or midwife, who has the notion that they know all the answers is potentially dangerous. |
Edited by - Carolinagirl on Mar 23 2007 2:30:10 PM |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 2:47:13 PM
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it seems to me that you and i have butted heads on more than one occassion. This is not just a matter of opinon fo rme, it is a matter of factual eveidence.
Tell me, if you ahve factual information, why prenatal care is imperative?
I did not have it and Zoe and I turned out just fine. The only thing she has been to the dr for waas for her excema and a terrible cough she had months ago that required a breathing treatment (Rob and I both have asthma so this was really no surprise.)
No I do not think that prenatal care if solely about vag exams...and I am really not going to argue with you about it. I have not taken a single personal attack, you have. tends to happen when ideas or the status quo are challenged.
No, not all midwives perform exams, some jsut sit and talk with the mother about her feelings about her pregnancy and impending birth, what fears she may have and why. I am not sayign that all women should have an unassisted birth, I but I do hold that home birth is safest and that you do not need prenatal care. I have provided the evidence, UNBIASED evidence to those facts....
I ahve not once claimed ot know all fo the answers, that is your assertation...not mine. I am always learning and discovering and do not believe that there will ever be an end to that learning and discovering. IF you are fine in complacency and not educating yourself about the risks you face upon entering a hospital, then fine. That is your choice, but as with any other of my passions in life, I won't sit idle while women are treated for pregnancy instead of glorified because they are giving life.
I am walking away from this now becuase I have talked blue faced to a brick wall (to Kim) Factual information is being completely ignored because of fear and denial. Personal attacks are being made and that is DEFINATELY no way to win an arguement but a sure way to be boastful ad make yourself feel better. I won't tak epart in that.
If you can approach me with factual information that is not biased and actually take the time to consider not just what I say, but tha factual information I provide, then we can have discourse, but until then, it is you, my dear, who has blinders on.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
Edited by - GaiasRose on Mar 23 2007 2:54:15 PM |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 3:06:30 PM
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One last thing to add, from a friend and fellow unassisted homebirther who is workling on her doctoral dissertation on the matter:
I am selfish. I admit it.
I am selfish because I want a birth experience that leaves me feeling fulfilled as a mother, that gives me confidence and joy.
I am selfish for giving birth at home, because I want to minimize the chances that my newborn will acquire an infection. Infection rates of newborns are many times higher in hospitals than at home. (1)
I am selfish because I want to avoid an unnecessary cesarean section; healthy women birthing at home have average cesarean rates of 1 to 4%, compared to around 20% in healthy women birthing in hospitals.
I am selfish because I do not want my vagina cut open by scissors (the nationwide episiotomy rate is STILL around 30%) or my belly cut open by knives. I have a 60% chance of acquiring a surgical wound if I give birth in a hospital.
I am selfish because I would prefer not to have to go into labor, pack my bags, get in the car, drive to the hospital, check in, sign consent forms, refuse the standard hospital procedures, and fight for what I want—all while giving birth to a baby.
I am selfish because I do not want to be separated from my baby. I want to hold my baby as soon as she is born. I do not want her to be taken from my arms to be weighed and measured, injected and bathed. I am selfish because I want to nurse her freely, without interruption.
I am selfish because I want to be washed in a “cocktail of love hormones,” to borrow a phrase from the French obstetrician Michel Odent. These hormones—endorphins, oxytocin, and prolactin—are released in full force only to women birthing without medications, in safe and private environments. Narcotics, anesthesia, surgery, and even high levels of stress and adrenaline inhibit the release of these hormones.
I am selfish because I want my baby to be born into her parents’ hands and to know only the safety and warmth of our arms. I want her be born in an atmosphere of love and ecstasy.
I am selfish because I want to avoid postpartum depression. Women who birth at home have much lower rates of postpartum depression. (2, 3)
Sometimes we need to be selfish.
(1) Mehl, L., Peterson, G., Shaw, N.S., Creavy, D. (1978) "Outcomes of 1146 elective home births: a series of 1146 cases." J Repro Med. 19:281-90
(2) Jones, Carl. Alternative Birth. Los Angeles: Jeremy P. Tarcher, 1990 p. 24.
(3) Kitzinger, Sheila. Home Birth. London: Dorling Kindersley, 1991 p. 193.
Rixa Freeze, who is just as passionate and jsut as learned about this topic as I, and who is also always learning and will not back down that this is the best way for a baby to be born. http://rixarixa.blogspot.com/
That is my answer to your implication and flat out assertion that I am stupid for not having care for my pregnancy and birth. I am selfish and I admit it. And you know what, my children will be better for it and I will be a better mother for it as well.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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lilpunkin
True Blue Farmgirl
368 Posts
Texas
USA
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 3:11:21 PM
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Tasha, what happens if you decide to have a home birth, and your baby is 2 weeks late and has not moved into the birthing canal due to the size of the baby and mother? (The baby will just not fit.) I am just curious as to what would be done in a situation like this.
Also, if a women has had a c-section and is trying to give birth to a second child VBAC. When she does try to give birth there is rupturing of the scar from a previous c section. What does one do at home in that situation?
As I stated in my very first post, it is not how or where you give birth to your baby that makes you a good mom.
Life isn't measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments take your breath away. |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 3:17:12 PM
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Zoe was 2 weeks late. One fact that most people are unaware of is that 40 weeks is an average. My own brother (who my mother had after recieving ZERO prenatal care) was born at almost 44 weeks at a healthy 11 pounds!
Pelvic size VERY RARELY plays a role in a baby not being able to be born. Give me a stat on the rupture of a scar during a VBAC. That would be an emergency situation. NOT ONCE did I say that there was absolutely no reason to go to the hospital. In fact I said several times that there are instances that it is unavoidable. YOur placenta is up so high and the cord gets wrapped and is unable to be untangled, placenta previa, a rupture of a previous scar. It does happen but again if you look at the facts I have provided, you will see that incident of emergency in home birth is significantly less than emergency in a hospital birth.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 3:19:48 PM
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VBAC stat....
http://www.vbac.com/uterine.html
to quote from the site:
"Fortunately, uterine ruptures from a prior cesarean with a low-transverse scar is a rare event and occurs in less than 1% of women laboring for a VBAC.....The risk of rupture for a low vertical scar has been reported to be the same as for a low horizontal scar and as high as 1-7%.
Sometimes a woman may have a "T" or "J" shaped scar on the uterus or one that resembles an inverted "T". These scars are very rare. It is estimated that between 4 and 9% of "T" shaped uterine scars are at risk for rupture.Rarely, a woman may have a classical (vertical) scar in the upper part (the body) of the uterus. This type of incision is used for babies who are in a breech or transverse position, for women who may have a uterine malformation, for premature babies or in extreme circumstances when time is of the essence.
The risk of rupture for this type of scar has been reported to be between 4% and 9%."
It is a rare occurance.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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Carolinagirl
True Blue Farmgirl
486 Posts
Kim
Rutherfordton
NC
USA
486 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 3:29:22 PM
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Glad you walked away, Tasha. Because I won't. I've had natural childbirth people bully me before, and it makes the possibilites of consideration of homebirth/natural childbirth distasteful. To be talked to, via your FACTS, in such a demeaning tone is not acceptable to me. Sure, I can spend lots of time online to present your with my own FACTS about prenatal care, or quality of hospital births, but I'm not going to waste my time just to hand them to you.
Yes, you and I have butted heads before, and I can't remember on which topic. Shortly after that discussion, I had a farmgirl email me privately and tell me thanks for standing up for the opinion that she and I shared, that the conversation was mean and biased, and she just didn't have the energy to argue it. And then she said she was leaving the forum.
Do you care at all how you come across? Is it just that most people will accept your tone, because it's easier than to fight it back? I won't accept it- I was born to two sixties revolutionaries who insisted I stand up for what I believe in. Bullies don't scare me; they only tick me off. I am only responding in kind to your attitude, your tone, your response to people's stories. And yes, I have a problem with how you present yourself, facts and all.
You aren't just butting heads with me, and I'm not the only brick wall- as you weakly pointed out. More women than me have stated what I have stated here, and you have chosen to ignore them. I am arguing back, so I am intended target of your spewing. That's okay with me too.
So, I'm glad you're walking away. Take your facts as well. I won't be reading them. And it's because I can't trust them in the manner you've presented. I hope others can take them with the attitude they are given by you, and then do research themselves.
The true measure of parenting is the ability to push your selfishness aside. Only then can we do what's best for our children, because it becomes about them, not about us. All of your selfishness would be for nothing if a baby died needlessly. |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 3:30:02 PM
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Rob and I discuss birth a lot. I mean A LOT. Not only have we had a baby here at home just us, but we are planning a third to our little family. I have a feminist husband who is just as concerned as I am about the health, physical and emotional (during and after birth) of women. He has nothing but people of the femal persuasion around him (poor guy is drowning at the deep end of the estrogen pool.) He made a great observation one day while we were discussing birth AGAIN...it was actually just a couple of days ago.
His Grandpa is dying. He is old and it is just a general wearing out of the body. His heart is slowing etc. I said to Rob one day that it seems liek everyone is so caught up in "when is Bob gonna die," that they are not paying attention to the fact that he is still alive, still thinking, still loving, still breathing. It seems he and I are the ones hwo are cherishing the fact that he is still alive instead of focusing on when is he going to pass...the same (and this is Rob's observation and very astute, if I amy add,) can be said for pregnancy and birth. MOst people are so focused on all of the bad that COULD happen (and this could stray into the power of positive htinking, the secret, or whatever you want ot call it) that they don't pay attention to the joy, the positive the natural occurances and just let them be. We have a need to meddle in what does not need meddling and fear is perpetuated because of it.
I can tell you that when I got pregnant with Zoe I started seeing a dr. The Dr. was full of crap. I started learning even more about UC adn homebirth in general. I stopped seeing said full of crap dr. As soon as I stopped seeing this particualr dr. I could not believe the level of stress that had built up and suddenly disappeared. I was finally not afraid of pregnancy, not ashamed of being a woman and the stresses that are put upon pregnant women simply vanished. that is my aim. that is what I believe ALL women deserve. There is no reason we have to be fearful of our pregnancies, no reason to focus on all of the bad things that CAN happen....oftentimes we manifest our destinies and we don't even know it, simply becuase of the fears we hang onto.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
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GaiasRose
True Blue Farmgirl
2552 Posts
Tasha-Rose
St. Paul
Minnesota
2552 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 3:33:35 PM
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You just proved my point, Kim....in ignorance, you dismiss factual information that I did present without hostility. I have not once become hostile in this, you have.
Call me what you will, but facts are facts and that you cannot hand facts over in a civil discourse shows me that you have no merit to your argument.
I admitted it already, Kim, I am selfish because of every reason that Rixa was so eloquently able to convey. Very selfish indeed....with a healhty happy family which is not infested by meddling drs.
ETA: Kim it is only you I am butting heads with as you are the only one to pull out personal attacks int his discourse.
I hear and understand everything everyone else has said, including you, but you state things as fact and then do not back them up for whatever reasons...When I discuss asnd discourse, I have found it very wise to have facts to back up claims. That's generally a rule of thumb in debate.
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
Blogs: http://gaiarose.wordpress.com
http://tasharose365.wordpress.com/
Homepage:
http://gaiasrose.etsy.com
http://ForestFaeries.etsy.com
Birth is safe, interference is risky; TRUST BIRTH |
Edited by - GaiasRose on Mar 23 2007 3:35:54 PM |
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Here's to Your Health: My Natural Childbirth Experience |
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My Natural Childbirth Experience
