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Reading Room:  Poetry of T.S. Eliot  |
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Libbie
Farmgirl Connection Cultivator
3579 Posts
Anne E.
Elsinore
Utah
USA
3579 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 3:23:52 PM
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Because I can't seem to get the time to "settle in" with a good book right now, I am re-reading some poetry books that I love and have had for a long time. I am actually just loving to have a full day to "digest" a poem that I read in the morning...
Right now I am reading through "Four Quartets" and "Selected Poems of..." by T.S. Eliot. Today I read the first part of "The Waste Land." That poem is seeming to be much more thoughtful and meaningful when I have time to "get" it. It just didn't seem like I had the time in school (or maybe it's just that I didn't MAKE the time? ).
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
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Beemoosie
True Blue Farmgirl
2077 Posts
Bonnie
New York
USA
2077 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 3:39:06 PM
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ohhh Libbie, I love poetry too! One of my favorite things to do is prowl through the shops for old poetry books. I know I have some T.S. Eliot; I'll look to see if I have the poem your reading. I actually think The Waste Land is one of the books I picked up at a moving sale. I just haven't picked it up to read yet.
I had very little "time" in school to stop and "get" anything a teacher was asking me too... I'm at the age now where I appreciate it all more.
Bonnie
...she is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls.
Prov 31:10
www.beequilting.blogspot.com |
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Beemoosie
True Blue Farmgirl
2077 Posts
Bonnie
New York
USA
2077 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 05:59:48 AM
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Yes indeedy! T.S. Eliot The Waste Land and Other Poems is one of the books I bought this summer. I also bought the Selected works of Tennyson and The Poetry of Robert Frost(already had that one, but the one I found this summer was older!)
I'll have to get reading!
Bonnie
...she is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls.
Prov 31:10
www.beequilting.blogspot.com |
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Libbie
Farmgirl Connection Cultivator
3579 Posts
Anne E.
Elsinore
Utah
USA
3579 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 06:44:46 AM
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I'm so glad! If you want, let me know what you think of it as you read.....
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
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Amie C.
True Blue Farmgirl
2099 Posts
Finger Lakes Region
NY
2099 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 07:05:21 AM
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Bonnie, I love TS Eliot! The Waste Land is one of my favorite written works ever. I actually loved it as a teenager, although it was never assigned to me for school. In fact, I used to check out The Complete Poems of TS Eliot from the library and read it in class when I was supposed to be doing other things. One of my teachers caught me with it, and after he had nagged me a little about doing my work for his class instead, he talked to me about the book and discovered that I was just reading it because I loved it. The next day he brought in a copy of the book and gave it to me. He said someone gave it to him years ago and he didn't care for Eliot. One of the best gifts I've ever gotten!
Have you ever read any of the metaphysical poets? They are very dense stuff. You have to concentrate to appreciate them. John Donne is the most famous, but I think George Herbert is even better. Check out his poem "The Flower". It's just a short one, and it appears in many anthologies.
How exciting to be talking about poetry! Not a topic that comes up often in my daily life, I'm afraid. |
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Beemoosie
True Blue Farmgirl
2077 Posts
Bonnie
New York
USA
2077 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 11:15:55 AM
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Libbie,
I will start reading this and get back to you with what I think. It would be fun to share our thoughts
Hi Amie,
I love George Herbert and Donne. I don't know if it fits into the same catagory but I also love Wordsworth and Whittier. You sound like maybe you took some college courses about poetry? I never did. I have to say I didn't use my brains much back in HS/College! It's silly, but I found these authors through a fiction series by Jan Karon. Her character "Father Tim" would quote such authors and I had to find them for myself. I have enjoyed them tremedously the last few years.
I am inspired to dive back in and talk more with you girls about poetry!
Bonnie
...she is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls.
Prov 31:10
www.beequilting.blogspot.com |
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Libbie
Farmgirl Connection Cultivator
3579 Posts
Anne E.
Elsinore
Utah
USA
3579 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 11:34:20 AM
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I'm excited, too! How fun!!!!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
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Amie C.
True Blue Farmgirl
2099 Posts
Finger Lakes Region
NY
2099 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 11:52:28 AM
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Yep, you've got me pegged. I was an English major. If you think discovering TS Eliot through Jan Karon is silly, you'll think I'm really silly...back in junior high my mom wouldn't let me listen to "mainstream" music, nothing but Christian music. I found a band called Daniel Amos and they quoted a lot of TS Eliot, John Donne, etc. In fact they had a whole album that basically just ripped off Nobel Laureate Czeslaw Mislowski (not sure I spelled that right). I guess the advantage to being such an underground pop phenomenon is that you fly below the radar of copyright infringement...
Anne/Libbie, sorry I didn't mean to cut you out (dropped your name out of my last post somehow). I'd love to hear what both of you think about The Wasteland and any other literary stuff. |
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Phils Ann
True Blue Farmgirl
1095 Posts
Ann
Parsonsburg
Maryland
USA
1095 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 4:29:09 PM
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Oh farmgirls, count me in on T.S. Eliot, too. I went back to school when I was 30 just to take English courses, and the first ones were "Understanding Poetry" and English Lit. Eliot appeared in the English Lit! In the beginning, I thought it depressing... and then I "got it" and loved it. I also love Donne and George Herbert. In fact, Herbert basically brings me to tears. Things of the spirit are expressed through poetry and music in a way that is deeply affecting to me.
I think it's GREAT that modern novels bring us to the classics. I read Homer's Odyssey this summer because of reading Cold Mountain... and Father Tim had lots of wisdom to share.
Love,
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
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Beemoosie
True Blue Farmgirl
2077 Posts
Bonnie
New York
USA
2077 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 06:16:44 AM
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Hi Ann,
I do love Herbert...I was amazed when I found the poetry he and others like him wrote about God. Just absolutely puts on paper what goes through my heart!
I started T.S. Eliot last night, but didn't get far...I guess I was too tired...some days at the High School Cafeteria leave me a little exhausted!!!! I read Inventions of the March Hare years ago b/c of the musical CATS. Funny how we stumble upon things if we pay attention!
Bonnie
...she is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls.
Prov 31:10
www.beequilting.blogspot.com |
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Phils Ann
True Blue Farmgirl
1095 Posts
Ann
Parsonsburg
Maryland
USA
1095 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 12:08:36 PM
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I've tried to find my T.S Eliot book(s) but can't. The Norton Anthology is at hand.... and reading "Journey of the Magi" isn't hard to follow--although a lot of his poetry has so much reference to writers we don't commonly know in our present day culture, it can be hard to make sense of. Norton, of course, has all the notes so that everywoman can read! LOL And, of course, CATS! For a cat lover, what joy to read.
Does anyone have George Macdonald's "Diary of an Old Soul"? It has a poem for every day of the year. August 8, which is about Lazarus' sister, Mary, is heartbreakingly real.
Ann (who needs to organize her books badly)
There is a Redeemer. |
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Beemoosie
True Blue Farmgirl
2077 Posts
Bonnie
New York
USA
2077 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 4:30:23 PM
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I don't have Diary of an Old Soul; but it sounds like one for my list!
Thanks
...she is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls.
Prov 31:10
www.beequilting.blogspot.com |
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Phils Ann
True Blue Farmgirl
1095 Posts
Ann
Parsonsburg
Maryland
USA
1095 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 6:44:52 PM
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Ooops! I feel like a complete nincompoop.... it isn't George Herbert who so moves me, but rather Gerard Manley Hopkins. I did google George Herbert and am now reading some of his poetry, too.
Amie, what type of music was Daniel Amos? And, what decade? I'm sort of surprised not to have heard of it, and disappointed based on the lyrics I've missed!
I found the bio of T.S.Eliot--and have to admit that it can be detrimental to get side tracked away from an artist by examining their life as written by another. Sort of like seeing photos and believing you're seeing the whole picture. Or reading about how to make chocolate instead of eating it.
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
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Libbie
Farmgirl Connection Cultivator
3579 Posts
Anne E.
Elsinore
Utah
USA
3579 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 9:16:33 PM
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I have to say that in the first section of "The Wasteland," (I. The Burial...), the description of the place beginning on line 19 and going through line 30 always makes me go back and read it again and again. It is the feeling I have when out in the middle of our red-rock sandstone desert here in Utah - that strangely both calming and unsettling feeling of sheer wildness and openness and an almost surreal strength. I hope that made some sense. I haven't read Eliot in quite a while, and that description is one of the reasons I came back to read.
I just love you all for chatting about poetry a bit. It is so interesting to explore someone else's experience of life - and reading a poem, to me, is just that.
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
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Beemoosie
True Blue Farmgirl
2077 Posts
Bonnie
New York
USA
2077 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2006 : 02:14:26 AM
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Ann, I haven't heard of Hopkins, I will check him out while you read some of George Herbert's works. See, we found something new in a fun way again! And I agree, many times an artist's biography does not match the beauty of their work.
Libbie, YOU are a poet! Do you live in the part of Utah that they used in all the old western movies?
Bonnie
...she is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls.
Prov 31:10
www.beequilting.blogspot.com |
Edited by - Beemoosie on Nov 09 2006 02:16:56 AM |
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Amie C.
True Blue Farmgirl
2099 Posts
Finger Lakes Region
NY
2099 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2006 : 06:14:32 AM
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Hi, everyone. I'm so frustrated! My computer at home isn't working, and I can't really sit here at work with my copy of Eliot, so I don't have anythig specific to contribute.
I'm eager to see what it is that you like about what you're reading. To me, The Wasteland is fascinating because it is both so beautiful and so creepy. In the section that Libbie quotes, there are a few lines that go something like "come in under the shadow of this red rock...I will show you fear in a handful of dust". It reminds me of those post-nuclear sci-fi novels that always seem to be set in the desert. To me, there is something very horrible and ominous about this section of the poem even though I have no concrete explanation for it.
One element that commonly comes up in discussion of the poem is the way the narrator seems to be trying to use fragments of old ritual and classical culture to bring structure and order to the chaos and disorder of modern reality. In Eliot's time, that would have been European society shattered after World War I and disoriented by the new scientific understanding of life. People had been shaken out of the assumptions and conventions of the Victorian world, and they weren't really sure what life was going to be like now.
Libbie, I think your impressions of that passage really pick up on that tension too. The contrast between peace and wildness co-existing in the same place. Interesting that Eliot used the desert as his setting, I wonder if he had ever seen a desert. |
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jpbluesky
True Blue Farmgirl
6066 Posts
Jeannie
Florida
USA
6066 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2006 : 06:27:03 AM
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Love reading your posts! Nothing better than a farmgirl who loves poetry! MaryJane once said one of her favorite poems is Sam Walter Foss' "The House by the Side of the Road". I personally love Robert Frost and Walt Whitman. Meg pointed out "Wind and Window Flower" by Robert Frost to me, and I am writing an article about indoor plants using that poem as a centerpiece. Forgive me for not giving input on T.S. Eliot - I need to find more of his poems and get familiar with them!
Ephesians 1:17 |
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Phils Ann
True Blue Farmgirl
1095 Posts
Ann
Parsonsburg
Maryland
USA
1095 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2006 : 10:57:00 AM
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I like Robert Frost, too, although it's been an age since I read anything by him. Yesterday I did read The Wasteland (T.S. Eliot) using the Norton notes, much of which came directly from Eliot himself. Boy, did I need the notes. Funny, last night I talked with my 81 year old Dad, who was a true scholar in lit. He hadn't read Eliot in decades, but remembered that The Wasteland had latin, French and Sanscrit in it.... commenting that Eliot was unusually "well-read".
Anybody read Amy Carmichael's poetry? Or, Christina Rosetti's?
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
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Phils Ann
True Blue Farmgirl
1095 Posts
Ann
Parsonsburg
Maryland
USA
1095 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2006 : 12:17:57 PM
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JP--Your indoor plants article sounds interesting--is it for a MaryJane's or a different magazine?
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
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Beemoosie
True Blue Farmgirl
2077 Posts
Bonnie
New York
USA
2077 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2006 : 08:48:11 AM
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Ok, now you girls will see how dense I am! I have spent the week reading and rereading The Waste Land. There are parts I get; parts that I don't quite get, but still grab me and if I keep at I think I will understand; and parts I don't get AT ALL.
I, too, was touched by lines 19-30 in Part I. Lines 27-30 specifically. I see someone telling a self-absorbed person "you think YOU have problems, come look at the rest of the world!" Like that handful of dust represents the world's troubles, particularly hunger. I may be way off there, that's just how it makes me feel.
I think part of the reason I don't get some of this is because I have never read the other authors he alludes too. But I do find it interesting. I see bits and pieces of empty relationships throughout and allusions to war. I will definately keep reading, there is something I do want to understand about it all, and I do get some of his other works. I also glimpsed through his Ash Wednesday and Journey of the Magi this week, and found them incredible. I won't go there until I feel we are finished with Waste Land though.
This is truly fun, girls. Thanks for waking my mind up!
Bonnie
...she is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls.
Prov 31:10
www.beequilting.blogspot.com |
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jpbluesky
True Blue Farmgirl
6066 Posts
Jeannie
Florida
USA
6066 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2006 : 09:30:05 AM
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Ann - it is for an online journal I write a column for. Robin here on the forum is editor. It is called Farm & Garden. www.farm-garden.com
The article about indoor plants will run in February, but there are many good articles online all the time at that emag. Check it out!
P.S. I write the Flower Gardener column.
Ephesians 1:17 |
Edited by - jpbluesky on Nov 12 2006 09:31:17 AM |
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Phils Ann
True Blue Farmgirl
1095 Posts
Ann
Parsonsburg
Maryland
USA
1095 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2006 : 1:58:44 PM
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JP, I will check out your on-line emag--it sounds fascinating. Thank you for the address. I also like Ephesians 1:17... which leads me to Philippians, generally speaking.
In regard to "The Wasteland", Bonnie... I'll share some of the Norton notes. Before the poem, the editor states:
"The Wasteland is a poem about spiritual dryness, about the kind of existence in which no regenerating belief gives significance and value to men's daily activities, sex brings no fruitfulness, and death heralds no resurrection."
In line 20, ...son of man... comes from Ezekiel 2:1 according to Eliot. He also refers to line 23 as coming from Ecclesiastes 12:5 and line 25 from Isaiah 32:2.
In part 3, line 182 comes from Psalm 137:1, "By the waters of Babylon..."
Also, there are lots of references to tarot cards (used not for divination, but "to suit my own convenience" according to Eliot. There are many references to the legend of the holy grail, which apparently dealt originally with pagan gods of vegetation, but Eliot regarded it as dealing with resurrection and the God of the Christian faith. The Fisher King is also related--the symbol of the fish in the early church as well as the Fish as a Life symbol. (LOL--this is just some of the references written in English.) To paraphrase the end of the intro... the mythological and religious material, eastern as well as western are used to create a picture of the modern wasteland "and the need for regeneration. The terror of that life--its loneliness, emptiness, and irrational apprehensions--as well as its misuse of sexuality are vividly presented, but, paradoxically, the poem ends with a benediction." That ending is in sanscrit, meaning "the peace which passes understanding" and the editor believes it is "willed, not achieved".
Bonnie, I hope you now feel justified rather than dense. 
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
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Libbie
Farmgirl Connection Cultivator
3579 Posts
Anne E.
Elsinore
Utah
USA
3579 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2006 : 5:17:34 PM
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Holy Toledo, Ann! And to think, I just really enjoyed the way the words flowed and the visions they provoke for me. I am so glad to have you farmgirls out there to give some insight. Like Bonnie - there are parts I immediately am taken with, parts that I think with effort will make sense, and parts that are, well, perhaps just out of my reach!
I'll say that the description of the desert in the first section is my favorite part of that section for sure. I can almost envision myself in the middle of the desert while reading them...
And then there's the first part of the second section, lines 77-110, that I think are the most luminous description of what I think is a woman at her dressing table that I have ever read. It is just lush. It's not so much what the poet "means" by these two descriptions that I am loving, it's the description itself...
This is so much fun! Thank you ALL!!!!!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
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Reading Room: Poetry of T.S. Eliot |
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Poetry of T.S. Eliot
