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Garden Gate:  HELP! Pumpkin Leaves Turning Paper Brown!  |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 09:31:41 AM
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Oh my gosh, girls - I'm so sorry... This past week, I haven't had much time to post to anything, and now this is the second time I'm asking for gardening help...
I've called three county extensions and the master gardeners are all "away" until next Monday... Must be a convention or something.
Had a prob with squash bugs. We've been killing the bugs as we've seen them, and then scraping off the eggs as fervently as possible. Saturday was a real rainy day, so I sprayed the underside of all the leaves with a VERY light mixture of organic dish soap and water... Everything was fine.
Yesterday I noticed some of our pumpkin leaves looked kind of a burgundy color. I went out to hang clothes a little while ago and a whole bunch of the pumpkin leaves are turning like a paper bag brown - starting where the stems meet the leaves. And others are wilting (but it's super hot out there). I don't know what to do! I don't think it was the spray because this hasn't happened on any of the other squash plants I sprayed!!!
Any ideas as to what this might be and how I can salvage my plants? We've been having plenty of rain - THANK GOD! - and when it's been dry for a couple of days, we've watered the plants from below... I don't think it's a watering issue... Oh man! I could cry! We just love our homegrown pumpkins!!!! ACK!!!! Do you think I should pull the plants? Maybe it's some sort of disease or something? Ugh... I can't even think about it!!!
Please let me know - I really, really, REALLY appreciate any help. I know if anyone will know what to do - it's you, my farmgirl sisters! I have company today, so I will try to check back as often as possible... I just don't want to lose them!!! Waaaah!!!
Thank you!!!!
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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nubidane
True Blue Farmgirl
2881 Posts
Lisa
Georgetown
OH
2881 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 09:37:58 AM
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| Sounds like squash vine borer. It kills the plant from the inside out. There is some way you can cut the plant & try to find the culprit & get it out, but I have never tried. They kill the plant very quickly, if that is what you have. |
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SheilaC
True Blue Farmgirl
1948 Posts
Sheila
Vermont
USA
1948 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 7:34:16 PM
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:( last year we had squash bugs and cucumber beetles both and within about 2 days of noticing the bugs all my squash/pumpkin/zucch plants were dead, dried up, all icky and ruined--the roots, leaves, everything. SO -- we had NO squash or cukes or pumpkins or any of them. . . so ashamedly I'll admit that this year when they showed up I bought some Sevin and used it on the squash plants. Thankfully I just had to use it once and now they are FLOURISHING :) I figured that if I don't grow them, I'm buying them from a farm who does use chemicals. . .
ah well.
http://troutwife.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop/brooktroutwife |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 8:21:22 PM
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Oh my gosh, girls!!! Thank you SO much!!! I am so upset!!!
First - Lisa, I'm not sure this is the squash vine borer... I did look up to see if images online matched what I am seeing outside... I can't say either way to be honest. I've got some leaves/vines that are similar, but nothing out there looks "exactly" like the pics... Do you think I should pull them all up, then? Waaaah! I'll do it to save the rest, though, if you think I should!!! Maybe I should post a picture? It's just so sad!!!
Sheila! OMGosh! You know, I've seen those stinking bugs when they are yellow with spots, so I thought they were one of the stages of ladybugs!!! I do have a few leaves that have the lacy-looking damage, but I thought it was from Japanese beetles because I have had a few drowned out there in the pool... If it takes Sevin, I'll try the Sevin.. I just won't use it on other plants, that's all. Did you try Neem at all before the Sevin? I have Neem - it did wonders for the hoppers that were killing plants earlier in the season. I did find one site that said I could use Neem for the squash bugs, so I'm wondering if I should give that a whirl first? The bees are an issue, though. It took a while for them to join me in the garden this year, and I really don't want to hurt or deter them from their fantastic work...
You know, it's so weird. Everything was absolutely flourishing. Suddenly today I see the pumpkin leaves like this and then tonight I go out and find that it's as if all my plants are stunted and no more fruit is producing - everything from tomatoes to beans to corn to squash to you name it. If it's out there, it's like it has suddenly fallen asleep or something. I think I'm also going to work in a little more compost out there tomorrow, and maybe add some organic fertilizer. I also probably should run to the garden center because the tomatoes in the containers on my deck suddenly started with blossom end rot today, too. I read that means they need calcium... I have no idea what will provide calcium, but I'm going to find it. I am even tempted to just make omelets for dinner tomorrow night and use the eggshells???
I can't believe how suddenly it's all hitting. I'm thankful, however, I have all of you - my garden would never survive or thrive if it weren't for all of you!!! THANK YOU and BLESS YOU!!! I really appreciate your help! We'll figure this all out, I'm sure of it! :)
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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nubidane
True Blue Farmgirl
2881 Posts
Lisa
Georgetown
OH
2881 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 9:07:08 PM
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| I so hope that my friend Linda (wooliespinner) will post what she did.. very radical, but, seems to have worked..Linda???? |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2012 : 8:42:22 PM
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I really hope so, too, Lisa! It's getting pretty ugly out there... Radical would be okay - I'm all about giving it my all! :)
I tried to find "borers" this morning, but couldn't find anything... I think tomorrow I'm going to just remove all the dead or dying leaves and stems and then move onto Sevin... I hate to do it, but a farmgirl's gotta do what a farmgirl's gotta do!
I'm just sick at heart over this... there are pumpkins and squashes on the vines and it's starting to look less and less hopeful by the moment. I've been praying... haven't given up, yet, but it sure feels like I'm losing this one! :( Oh well, I learn something new every year! I'm just so tired of scouring the internet for a pic of what is happening to my plants... there are similar pics, but none that match... I will try to post a pic tomorrow for you all to see.. we're supposed to have more of those horrific storms tonight and through the next few days, so the pic may have to wait a little bit. I'm thankful for the rain... I just pray I don't loose my squash plants!!!
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2012 : 12:31:24 PM
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Oooooh, man! It's definitely squash vine borers... I cut a leaf off, split the stem open and the biggest, ugliest grub was inside waiting to greet me... I had to take my son to the doctor's today, but we stopped and picked up some Sevin on the way home... It's about to storm outside, but first chance I get, the dead plant material is coming down, any grubs, bugs and eggs I find are going to be squished, and then I'll be spraying Sevin. Please pray that I don't lose everything! SO heart breaking!
Thanks for all your help! If there's anything else you all can think of that I need to know, please do tell! :)
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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SheilaC
True Blue Farmgirl
1948 Posts
Sheila
Vermont
USA
1948 Posts |
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rough start farmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
3331 Posts
marianne
The Beautiful Pacific NW
Washington State
USA
3331 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2012 : 8:44:11 PM
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Go get 'em, Nini. have no mercy. Hate something that kills that fast.
Marianne |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 06:41:08 AM
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LOL! Thanks, Marianne! These buggers really do ravage everything quickly, don't they!? I hate them!!! Sheila, that's exactly how I feel, but then I read the bottle, and now have had major second thoughts....
Okay, so here's what's happening:
We've had three days of rain, thunderstorms, etc. I can't spray the Sevin until there will be at least 6 hours for it to dry and stick. We're still slated for another week of rain, according to our illustrious weather forecasters. On top of all of this, our temperature (except for the rainy days) has been 87 degrees or above (much more above, to be honest), and I can't spray until the temp returns down to 85 degrees or lower.
I read the Sevin bottle and just became sick over it. It's effective, all right; but it is basically antithetical to everything I am trying to accomplish in my organic garden. It's bad for bad AND good bugs, it's bad for animals and birds, it's bad for our dog, it's bad for us, it's bad for the environment. I got this gnawing feeling that I shouldn't use it.
So, just to try to prove to myself that I'm being silly, I called their customer service. The lady I spoke with was very helpful and basically told me everything I needed to know about the product. She even told me the "wait times" for the "safe" time to eat and pick our fruits and veggies after spraying. (Three days produce such as squash, beans and peppers, "at least" fourteen days for lettuces, etc., because it IS toxic to humans. Eghads, do I really want to do this?) She also told me NOT to cut down, pull up, or remove any of the already affected plant material as I had planned to do. She said it would be much more prudent to leave it all in place, wait for a cooler, dry day, and then spray everything all at once. Then, a few days later, I could remove the affected plant material, trash it, and proceed with my happy gardening.
I hung up the phone and simply felt ill. Even if I wait for the "perfect timing," I will feel tortured by the knowledge that those buggers out there munching away at what was once my beautiful, thriving garden. (I swear, in the calm before the storm, I can hear them! LOL!)
I stood looking out at my back door and watched all the birds, looked at my wounded garden, saw the crazy neighborhood squirrel scampering across the power line, listened to my dog panting at my side, and just wanted to cry. Then I thought of how over the past few years I've become super sensitive to everything I put on or in my body, and how vigilant I have been trying to keep my family as healthy and chemical-free as possible. All the changes I have been making - including drying clothes on the line, which I'm sure would probably also be affected by the Sevin in the air - has somehow brought a balance and peace to our lives, I can't explain it, but it is so very real, and I don't want to jeopardize it at all. It's a beautiful thing. I suddenly realized that I just can't do this; I just can't bring myself to do it. My heart aches for the squashes and pumpkins and cukes, but I'm going to have to chalk it up to another year, another lesson learned, plain and simple. There are, after all, farmer's markets popping up everywhere in our area; I'm sure I can find a local organic farmer to support for one season, right? Maybe in the process, he or she will share a pointer or two that will save me from this horror in the future!
So, I talked with one of our close neighbors and asked if he had experienced these squash vine borers in the past, and, if he had, what did he do? Well, he said, he did encounter this last year, but he just let nature run it's course. He didn't want to use chemicals (his young daughter is already fighting multiple illnesses), so he just tried to stay ahead of the bugs by picking the produce as soon as possible. He said that his garden, like mine, suddenly "fell asleep" one day, so he simply pulled up all of the damaged plants and "cooked" them inside of a big ol' trash can in the hot sun, and let the garbage men remove them. He didn't plant a garden at all this year in order to give the ground a rest, and in the hopes that the bugs might not return the following year. <sigh> He said that's the best he could figure to do, so that was how he dealt with it.
So, here's what I'm thinking:
I do have a few resistant strains of squash out there. I'm thinking I'll leave the affected material for now, allowing the gross bugs to just sustain themselves where they are for the time being.... and I'll try to stay ahead of the bugs as my neighbor did by picking produce as it comes in (what little will come in). I should begin my fall planting the first week of August, anyway, (well, actually, some stuff I need to be planting right now), so towards the end of next week, I'll just go out, pull up whatever is out there, and "fry" it in the garbage can, just like my neighbor did, and pitch it. Then I'll turn a whole bunch of homemade compost into the ground and let it sit until the end of the following week (or maybe give it two weeks), at which time, I'll just plant my fall/winter veggies and see what happens. I should be able to manage any other pests that arise with neem oil spray (stinky, but very effective), garlic and hot pepper spray, and, if necessary, a milder insecticidal soap. Then, when the growing season is completely over in late fall, I was planning to overwinter with green manure crops; however, if that's not a good option as far as the bugs are concerned, I'll just cover it with black fabric and pray for the best come spring. I'll have to look into that. I am thinking that next year I probably won't plant squash at all... or, at least, maybe a pumpkin (can't live without my pumpkin! LOL!) and a zucchini, and then keep vigilant with garlic spray BEFORE any pests persist (That's the key, according to my "Gardener's Bible;" it's not effective once they set in, but if you use it beforehand, they will not be so quick to settle in, and much easier to manage if they do.)
So, that's my game plan for now. I really, REALLY would still love to hear what Linda (wooliespinner) did, though, Lisa... My hands are basically tied by the weather for the next few days, anyway, so maybe implementing her more radical solution can still help save my garden. :) In any event, at least I have a plan and am taking notes for the future! :)
It's all good. I feel so much better handling it in a non-toxic, non-chemical way, truly. It's a very, very sad thing - a heartbreaking thing - to lose the produce that might have been, but at least I will be at peace knowing my family, our dog, the animals, the birds and the environment won't be harmed. I'll have a whole year to figure things out in order to try to avoid the problem in the future, and I'll be supporting a more experienced local organic gardener in the process. It really IS all good!
Thanks for everything, girls!
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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windypines
True Blue Farmgirl
4192 Posts
Michele
Bruce
Wisconsin
USA
4192 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 05:07:04 AM
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I looked up squash vine borer in a book I have. They say the borers hate the smell of garlic and onions. Put these among your vine plants. Radishes is said to work too. Fabric row covers.
Aluminum foil- try wrapping the base of the plant with a layer of aluminum foil to stop the moths from laying their eggs on the stem of the plant.
Then another suggestion is useing Nc nematode infested mulch around the base of the plant. If you find a bore hole, just inject the Nc nematode into the borehole with a medicine dropper. Or use a weekly spray of Bt. I have no idea what that stuff is though.
these came from the book 1001 all-natural secrets to a pest-free property.
MIchele |
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LuckyMommyof5
True Blue Farmgirl
500 Posts
Suzanne
OH
USA
500 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 05:49:05 AM
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Nini - I agree with everything you wrote about not being able to use the heavy duty pesticide, even to save your poor, embattled garden. I'm not judging anyone who does, though. I just feel the same way you do - I value the organic nature of my garden and yard so much that any time I've had to use chemicals (like on our poison ivy invasion from the neighbor's property) felt like a blow to my heart. If the idea of using the Sevin makes you feel not right, then you were right in choosing not to. Hang in there, Nini. As painful as all these garden challenges are, you are learning so much from managing them. I know that won't be much confort this year, but just think of how prepared you will be for preventing so much of this next year!
I'm thinking about you!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
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wooliespinner
True Blue Farmgirl
1311 Posts
Linda
Manchester
Ohio
1311 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2012 : 2:39:18 PM
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Nini I had them too.
They started to wilt and I looked at the base of the vine and seen little mustardy stuff leaking out. That means that worm is inside and it will kill the plant. I was so upset and thought 8 years in a row and its happening again. I went into the house and got a 18 gage needleand syringe and dipped it in ivomec that I use to worm my goats. I put that needle in each hole and stabbed it about 25 times in different directions. It took me awhile cause I had alot of plants and they all had them. I figured if they were gonna kill the plants I was gonna stab them for doing it. I was so depressed and figured the next few days I would once again watch them all die.
Then the most amazing thing happened .........they perked up and lived. I have picked almost 42 squash!!! I was AMAZED !!! I had a few more I noticed and I took pyola this time and dipped the needle and it worked on them too.Next time I will only use the Pyola that I get from gardens alive. Its so much safer. I didn't think the plants would live and I was so upset I grabbed the ivomec first. I am not one to kill anything but every darn year I lose my squash and am lucky to get one or two zuchini. Hope no one thinks I am crazy but it worked.
Hope this helps.
Linda
Raspberry Run Farm
Nubian Dairy Goats |
Edited by - wooliespinner on Jul 29 2012 2:51:02 PM |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2012 : 10:28:07 AM
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Thanks SO much, girls!
Michelle - I've got onions and garlic bordering the whole garden, with some interspersed throughout. I also am a BIG fan of the radishes, but they just didn't hold up against these nasties I've got out there this year!!! UGH! I'll have to do more next year, I guess! But I really do appreciate your help!!!
That's absolutely right, Suzanne! I'm learning! I'm definitely learning! There are still a whole bunch of good things out there - just very little squash to speak of... It's all good. I've got an abundance of peppers this year, and last year barely had a handful! 'Just taking notes and looking at the silver lining! :) Thanks so much, sister!!!
Linda! That's AMAZING!!! You are sooo smart to have thought of that! Actually, I think you're brilliant!!! You GO girl!!! I was actually looking at pyola, but have never heard of it until you spoke about it... I also don't have syringes (How would I get them? I know... such a greenhorn! LOL!)... But I'm going to seriously think about spraying next year!!!
I really did try everything short of chemicals, but wound up pulling up almost all the affected plant material, then spraying with organic insecticidal soap and organic fungicide for the mold (which really seemed to do the trick!). Even things that were thriving after my "attack" are now dying; however, I do have new growth in my patty pans and acorn squash, which I'm pretty excited about. Still holding out hope! :) Today, after the heat of the sun, we'll be in the garden with our mid-summer planting (late due to unforeseen life events). Even though the squash were a huge disappointment, there are still plenty of good things out there, and, hopefully, more to come this fall! :)
I am wondering, though - do any of you know if lady bugs eat the squash bug larvae? I have been told conflicting information... I'm really considering just buying some to see what they'll do!
Thanks so, so, SO much girls, for all your help and support!
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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wooliespinner
True Blue Farmgirl
1311 Posts
Linda
Manchester
Ohio
1311 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2012 : 12:52:42 PM
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Nini you can buy that at tractor supply for any feed mill that caters to livestock. Make sure its an 18 or 16 gage needle. These are a bigger fatter needle so you can get the solution in easier.
Linda
Raspberry Run Farm
Nubian Dairy Goats |
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Garden Gate: HELP! Pumpkin Leaves Turning Paper Brown! |
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HELP! Pumpkin Leaves Turning Paper Brown!
