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Family Matters:  ? for Christians...Now being asked in Gathered Up  |
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 05:50:07 AM
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I am Buddhist. Why does my cousin care about my soul? I believe in God.
My cousin buys I am guestimating at least $800 a month on medical marijuana, and she goes to the food bank, so she can use the food $ on pot.
She asks for $ from her newly widowed mom, who is a school custodian, and works hard for her $. I have heard her lie to everyone we know.
Isn't the point he end result of your life? Why is it so horrible that my vehicle has a different bumper sticker on it.
She says her pastor is scared of her because she is so righteous and real.
I would like to say, that I love Jesus, he is awesome. Who saves more drunks than Jesus? No one. He is my homeboy, but Buddhism is really where my heart is.
Also, does every Christian faith baptize? Just wondering. Apparently I am going to limbo, but ever since I was a kid, I pictured Elvis there with me. So, I'm ok with it. My cousins say that my Uncle Em will be there too
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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Edited by - one_dog_per_acre on Oct 17 2011 05:47:52 AM |
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Annika
True Blue Farmgirl
5602 Posts
Annika
USA
5602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 07:59:06 AM
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I also believe in God and enjoy Buddhist philosophies, they help me keep my life sane, both of them. So perhaps we can make cup cakes together 
Annika
Farmgirl & sister #13
http://pinterest.com/annikaloveshats/
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~Leonardo DaVinci
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natesgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1735 Posts
angela
martinsville
indiana
USA
1735 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 08:18:44 AM
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Some people are extremely closed minded. I would love to see everyone as a christian, but the true definition of the word is different from what most people believe. As far as the true definition goes, you are a christian! A christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ. You said you love Him, so you believe, so you are a christian! Tell her that and it may stop some of the problem.
I have a hard time believing she is so 'rightous' as she says. A truly rightoues person is humble. They would never brag about being rightoues. As a matter of fact, they wouldn't even think of themselves as anything but a wretched sinner. That's what the bible says!
I believe there will be people from all faiths in Heaven. The Bible says that God will call his children from ALL churches, so that means to me ALL churches! I guess I just have a slightly different view of some things than other people.
Oh well! That's between me and God, just like your decisions and point of view are between you and God. Enjoy your life and stand firm on your beliefs! All us ladies on here are standin there holdin tight to your hand!!!!
Farmgirl Sister #1438
God - Gardening - Family - Is anything else important? |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 09:55:18 AM
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Hi girls -
Trish, I know how sensitive this subject is, so please understand that I am in no way about to condemn or judge. I am not permitted, nor am I capable. I just want to share with you what I know personally about Christ, as well as a little bit of what I learned in college.
First, let me share with you this explanation of God in Buddhism from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism
To follow up, I was taught in secular college in a secular religious studies class that Buddhism's nirvana, the emptying of oneself, is, in effect, "nothingness," which is truly meaningless. I was taught that Buddhism rejects the notion of a supreme divine being. The simplicity of the notion of a "supreme being" would indicate "one," rather than oneness with nothingness. You find the same error in other religions as well, for example, as Hinduism. God is not nothing - He is everything! Through Him all things were made, and He loves each and every one of us personally, deeply and profoundly. How could a parent not love his child?
God is One God - I Am that I Am - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - the Trinity. Jesus Christ, His Son, "through Him, with Him, in Him, in the Unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, Almighty Father, forever and ever. Amen." Jesus Christ is the only true way to the Father ("Jesus says to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father unless by me." John 4:16), and is one in being with the Father with the Holy Spirit. Father God is the Only True God, who gave us Jesus Christ - His Son, God in the Flesh - so that, as it is stated in John 17:3, "Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Through Christ we know God the Father more intimately, truly and on a personal level. Further, the Sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us in His Passion is the only true atonement for our sin - which we are ALL guilty of, as God Alone is Perfect. When Jesus ascended into Heaven, He sent His Holy Spirit as our helper. Through the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of God (think of "God in Three Persons" in the same manner that each of us is "woman, spirit and person"), we are guided. Jesus loves us completely, and in Him, and in Him alone, there is no condemnation and through Him, and Him alone is true salvation.
John 3:16 states, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Please know that this subject is so vast and so deep that it cannot possibly be contained in a mere single response in any chatroom. I am sure - SURE - that there are many loving, spirit-filled Christians in your community who can better explain all of this in depth. And I am sure - SURE - no matter who the Christian is, no matter where he or she is on his or her personal journey with Christ, he or she will definitely be concerned about your salvation and that you know and believe in the One True God. For those of us who believe, you need Jesus just as much as we do. But the one thing you have to remember is that it takes faith to believe. God will give you that faith, wisdom and understanding if you request it of Him, I assure you of that with my whole heart. You'll be amazed at the people He suddenly flocks into your life to help you on your journey!
Finally, I must say how deeply saddened I am to hear about your sister's behavior. It is truly not the example she should be setting, nor is it indicative of a faithful Christian's life. However, please know that ALL Christians start as babies in Christ and, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we all grow in Christ; we are all at different stages; we are all, in effect, "works in progress." We all have to start somewhere, and that doesn't mean we're perfect when we begin our journey. It sounds to me that she truly needs a much deeper personal relationship with Christ, and, if she truly commits herself to Him, in time, she will see the error of her ways and grow in Him. It's very difficult to profess your faith and try to encourage others to "come home" to the Father when you aren't living the Life. Unfortunately, we all fail at this - and miserably - at times. The thing is, all people are human - Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist...whatever they believe or deny. We are all children of God, as we are His creations, and He so deeply loves us. None of us are perfect, and none of us have achieved perfect understanding. But Christ truly is "the Way, the Truth and the Life" - if you seek Him, you will find Him and you will KNOW He is True, and you will never be the same again. If we all stepped back and truly let God lead our lives, wouldn't the world be SUCH a better place? SUCH a wonderful place it would be indeed if we would allow God to truly take the forefront in all aspects of our lives. There would be no more questions, no more error, no more confusion; no more hurt, no more offense, no more anger or pain; no more sin - no more separation from Him. Until then, we are, again, spiritually "in process" until death. During that interim, we are all going to fail, make mistakes, misrepresent, hurt, offend and cause pain and anger - sin. I find great joy, however, in knowing when people are seeking. As long as we continue to "seek" and "knock," we can be assured the "door" will one day be opened. The Truth will set us free indeed!
I am always here for all of you. For me, Jesus is everything. If anyone wants to correspond, please just email me. I'm not perfect - far from it! But I love Him and I do know Him, and I would be happy to share whatever I can of Him to help you on your own personal journey of discovering and knowing Him. Having said that, please do not be hesitant or fear to contact your local Priest or pastor... That is what they are there for! You might also want to drop in and review the "Christian Farmgirl" strain every now and then to gain a little more insight as to who we are, what we believe, and where each of us are in our walk with Him. There, you will only find love - His love. :)
Love in Christ -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
www.papercraftingwithnini.myctmh.com
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 10:02:15 AM
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Oh, and yes: If you are Christian, you baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit... WHEN you are baptized depends upon which Christian branch you follow. :)
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
www.papercraftingwithnini.myctmh.com
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 10:19:42 AM
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I practice meditation. It is very important to me. Buddhism is more like a philosophy than a religion, I think. I don't worship Buddha. If you are ever interested in anything besides wiki, check out Plum Village, Tich Nhat Tran. He is my favorite monk. He recently made a call to all western Buddhists to try to find a love for Jesus. He believes that when families are one religion, it makes for a more harmonious life. How awesome is that?!? Buddhism encourages participation in other religions, as long as it is positive. I love his compassion, and I love the idea of accountability for yourself, that I can't seem to see in most Christians I know.
Nini,
I have already been told I am going to hell. Anything you would ever say couldn't be worse than that, right?
I guess my question is still not answered. I am guessing that most Christians believe the afterlife is for Christians only? What's with the recruitment?
I do have a hard time with faith. I keep waiting for epiphany. The problem is, I don't think it will ever happen. It seems like the stories I hear about finding Jesus are about destitute people.
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 10:23:20 AM
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You never know lady! My cousin goes to School in Pullman! Zen cupcakes!quote:
Originally posted by Annika
I also believe in God and enjoy Buddhist philosophies, they help me keep my life sane, both of them. So perhaps we can make cup cakes together
Annika
Farmgirl & sister #13
http://pinterest.com/annikaloveshats/
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~Leonardo DaVinci
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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AmethystRose
True Blue Farmgirl
254 Posts
Rosemary
Huntingdon
PA
USA
254 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 11:02:38 AM
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Trish, I think that your cousin needs to re-evaluate the effects of her medical marijuana.
There are righteous as well as self-righteous Christians. As to the afterlife, some Christians would say that only their denomination has one. I've been through that, had twelve plus years of non public school.
I don't think that epiphany is necessarily for everyone. My concept of faith is a steady pilot light, not a bonfire. I don't believe that Jesus was as complex as the religion that followed, and probably would have/did/still is breaking bread with Buddha.
Can I have a chocolate cupcake with white buttercream icing?
Rosemary |
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Cherime
True Blue Farmgirl
1222 Posts
Cherime
Wasilla
Alaska
USA
1222 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 11:57:13 AM
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Christian is an interesting term. Many of us feel that we are followers of the kingdom of God with Jesus as the head of the family because God the father passed that to him when Jesus died for all in the world, regardless of their sins or lack thereof. The only real requirement is to believe that Jesus came as a man to do what we could not do for ourselves, be a sinless offering to re mediate the fallen world that mankind had turned over to satan in the first place viva vis Adam and Eve. As allways we have the option of free will. God wants us to believe that Jesus is his son and therefore representative of the Father and the Holy Spirit and the head of the family of man. That is why Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man.
I do not believe that we have the right to make any decisions regarding anyone's spiritual condition. Not our job, Jesus has that duty. My dad used to say that there were going to be a whole lot of people in hell with surprised expressions and I think he was more than half right. Rule one love God with all your heart, soul, mind, rule 2 love every other individual on earth the same way, rule 3 believe that Jesus died for all sins for all time for everyone, end of rules.
Meditation is in the Bible and David, did a lot of it. It says to meditate on the things of God. It also says that God loved us sufficiently to send Jesus, who took on that duty because he loved us regardless of our sinful condition, who bought our freedom.
That's as I see it, really simple, God's grace made a way for salvation of the world, Jesus, by faith we are to believe that God send Jesus and go from there.
CMF |
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Dusky Beauty
True Blue Farmgirl
1108 Posts
Jen
Tonopah
AZ
USA
1108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 12:02:20 PM
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Disclaimer: The following text is my religious opinion based on my faith walk and scripture. I'll try my best to explain why I believe what I do. It may come off as close minded, but the actual text of scripture actually doesn't leave much room for interpretation on these kinds things. I fully respect anyone's right to believe anything they like (but please don't hold it against me if I still think you're just missing something. I certainly don't think any less of you as a woman and a human being so please grant me the same courtesy.)
First, What is a Christian?
A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ and strives to be "Christ-like". There are a lot of misconceptions about what makes denominations or religions or even non religious people considered Christian or not. Suspend the idea of organized religion for a moment and break it down to an individual level. Not every person you find in a Christian church who claims they've "found Jesus" is actually a Christian.
Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my Heavenly Father. many will say to me on that day: "Did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons and perform many miracles and great works in your name?" Then I will tell them plainly. "I never knew you. Depart from me doers of evil things." Matthew chap 7:verses 21-23
This is Jesus himself saying that sure, lots of people will say they are Christian, and point to all the good, impressive and charitable things they did, but when it comes down to it, those people never really did those good things because they were on a walk with Jesus. They don't have a relationship, so he doesn't know them!
So how do we know if someone is the real deal or not? We don't. Because we can't see their innermost thoughts. we don't know what actually drives someone to do nice things for others. You'll often see people "be charitable" because they want other people to think better of them. But here is how we can make a fair guess:
A good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree brings forth bad fruit. Matthew 7:17 The theory is that if you're grounded in Jesus, you will naturally want and do good things, and those things will end well. If you only want and do the things that you want for your own sake, they tend to blow up in your face, or hurt other people unintentionally (or heck, intentionally.)
For my personal experience, I find that when I am better grounded in the ways Jesus inspires, It takes very little effort on my part to be a better person. I've felt sorry for unforgivable people and prayed for people I hate. It's easier to "turn the other cheek" when someone is rude or thoughtless .
I'm not perfect, far from it. I am really fast to get angry and my wit turns into a sharp and painful words. Because I know how *not perfect* I am, I know that these unusual lapses in meanness are definitely not my natural instinct.
So, in summary; A Christian isn't boastful or prideful about their "religion". Few Christians I know are terribly religious people. But what they have in common is that they all are working on trying to be more "Like Christ" by reading his word, learning more about him, and talking with him through prayer. Some days (and weeks, months, YEARS) are better than others for this in terms of effort.
Baptism
Baptism is meant to be a spiritual metaphor. The water symbolically washes away the remnants of your old life (before you started following Jesus) and declares to your community that you are committed and dedicated to your Christian walk. This is a big, conscious decision that comes along after you "get saved". The idea of "getting saved" is admitting that you are a sinner and that Jesus is the only one who can help you be a better person. Baptism is something you do after when you know what actually "following Christ" means.
It's the difference between registering for college and sitting through orientation, and actually attending classes and studying for final exams.
Jesus and John the Baptist intended baptism to be a serious decision intended for adults. No one can make that decision for you. Not every Christ follower has been baptized, and not everyone who has been baptized is committed to following Christ.
Nowhere in scripture does it say you have to be baptized to go to heaven. It's just a natural step on the faith journey. If it's the life you've chosen, you will at least want to be baptized at some point.
Some churches use the word "baptism" to describe what is really more of a ritual cleansing. It's kind of a misnomer in that way. The two ideas are not the same thing.
As far as the condition of your cousin's soul is concerned-- well, you've drawn your conclusions on the basis of her actions. Which is exactly what you should do, and why anyone who wants to be taken seriously as a witness for Christ has to back up their words with Christ-like actions.
Why is she concerned with your bumper sticker?
I'll answer that from my perspective (for the sake of argument, assume that I am correct, as it is after all, my reasoning! :D)
I see the destination in the next life. I've got infallible gps that will get me to the right place. It tells me every turn I should make including sights worth seeing. If I choose to go against what GPS is telling me, it will still tell me how to get back on the right path no matter where I get lost, even if the roads I have to take back are full of potholes, I get some bad weather, and I miss out on some sights I should have seen, that trusty GPS is still there to tell me the best way back to my final destination.
Some people have no GPS. They wing it based on travel books, intuition, and some general idea they should probably go north, but south might have something cool to see too....
Some people use road maps. Atlases are pretty good. They show you the lay of the land and all the roads you could take. But they can't anticipate things like road closures and weather conditions like my GPS can. Sure, they mightget you where you need to end up, but it's a lot less likely you'll get there in once piece, if at all- or that you'll have had any kind of a decent trip.
Or you may have a gps system someone gave you. It looks pretty good. Tells you where to go, but you come to realize that someone designed the unit to take you to expensive tourist traps. The people behind that GPS don't care about how good your trip is, or if you end up in the right place. They just want your money on the way.
You don't always get the best results telling people they're traveling wrong.
But hey, if someone wants to know why then ended up at a closed amusement park, or why there's no place to get a cold drink for 2000 miles, I don't mind recommending my GPS.
If anyone asks, I can explain logically why I believe what I do (blind faith is not my thing) but that was not what the OP asked.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
Edited by - Dusky Beauty on Oct 12 2011 12:09:09 PM |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 2:16:04 PM
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Hey girls -
I probably won't be back online for a while, so please forgive me... I just want to lovingly put one tweak into something you said, Jen, about baptism... Please don't be upset with me. John 3:5 states, "Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." I'm thinking that baptism is indeed clearly indicated... Different translations of the Bible may state that a little bit differently, but the gist is still the same... It's not a metaphor at all.
Also - my faith and my church never allows us to determine - to be the prosecution, judge and jury - as to who "gets in" and who doesn't... That would be extremely bold and brazen, I think. We aren't God, so we really shouldn't "play God." We're too fallible and weak and sinful. Only God knows what happens when a person dies and what happens between a person and Jesus when we finally meet Him face-to-face. He is a loving, all-powerful, merciful God... I'm counting on that! I think a lot of us are! ;) The thing is, though, if you believe in Christ and in God's Word - the Bible, you definitely have some things to consider in this life. I don't think you can be held accountable for what you do not know; but once you do... well, you get the idea.
Gotta go - Sorry!
Hugs to all -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
www.papercraftingwithnini.myctmh.com
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Dusky Beauty
True Blue Farmgirl
1108 Posts
Jen
Tonopah
AZ
USA
1108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 3:23:06 PM
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Darn, now I won't get to have dialog with Nini :(
Ok, I'll grant the water baptism in that verse, but the context of the passage is Jesus explaining spiritual birth to the pharisees. You can't really rule out the possibility that Jesus is talking about "living water". He's trying to explain spiritual things in a literal way trying to help Nicodemus understand it.
When I refer to baptism as a metaphor, I don't mean it's an imaginary thing that you shouldn't concern yourself with, I'm saying it is a symbolic act.
quote:
From Godwords.orgWhen Jesus was baptized, He was beginning His ministry. When those who came after Him were baptized, they were making a public statement of their belief in Jesus as the Messiah, and of their intention to join the Christian community. There's no part of the ritual that leads to salvation.
Of course, Christians were commanded to be baptized in Scripture...but not until they were Christians. While there are certainly a few verses that appear to teach that baptism cleanses a person from sin, closer inspection shows that they don't. We have examples of people being saved before baptism, and that should clear things up. Certainly the thief on the cross comes to mind, as do the words of Romans 6:3-4...
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Baptism symbolizes Jesus' death and resurrection, and our decision to partake in the benefits of His sacrifice. Paul pointed to the fact that salvation doesn't require baptism when he wrote to the Corinthians:
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel - not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Paul definitely would not say that if salvation were necessary to go to heaven. Possibly the most damaging evidence against the belief that baptism is a requirement for salvation is found in Acts 10:
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
I agree with Nini that human beings don't have the right to sit in judgement, but we DO have a criteria to measure the status of our own souls, and if we come short of that, it's on us.
God is very forgiving and accepting, and that's why the Bible's salvation plan is so simple. Believe in Jesus, follow him. Nothing else is required of you. No minimum tithes, no minimum community service hours, no lineage, nada.
I have a certain curiosity about people's who lived and died without ever hearing of a bible. All human beings have an intrinsic drive to worship something, and most every culture has a very similar set of ancestral values and laws. It makes me wonder if on some level, every human being "knows" something in a way and they either looks for answers to those questions, or they make a decision to ignore those feelings.
edit: Just to reiterate, I love and respect Nini as a sister, I just disagree on that point, and the rebuttal I gave is why I believe something different.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
Edited by - Dusky Beauty on Oct 12 2011 3:37:54 PM |
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Annika
True Blue Farmgirl
5602 Posts
Annika
USA
5602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 3:38:47 PM
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I always think that everyone is blessed by a tiny divine spark. God DID make man in his own image. My Thoughts on God are maybe a bit different, but when ever the world and the things coming at me in my life get over whelming , I remind myself that the divine is unmeasurable and too immense for us to even understand. It is always a comforting thought for me, when things in life aren't fair or I feel overwhelmed. The divine, by what ever name, or how the different religions believe and teach, is still "God".
Annika
Farmgirl & sister #13
http://pinterest.com/annikaloveshats/
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~Leonardo DaVinci
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 3:39:04 PM
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No, but you can have red velvet.
It's for her husband. He apparently has all kinds of mental illness and a back problem that keeps him from working, unless he needs $ for pot.
They have a bible quote they say about all the fruits and the seeds of the earth, are gifts from God, for man to use.
Jen, I'd like to know. Blind faith is such a mystery. My brain is analytical.
quote:
Originally posted by AmethystRose
Trish, I think that your cousin needs to re-evaluate the effects of her medical marijuana.
There are righteous as well as self-righteous Christians. As to the afterlife, some Christians would say that only their denomination has one. I've been through that, had twelve plus years of non public school.
I don't think that epiphany is necessarily for everyone. My concept of faith is a steady pilot light, not a bonfire. I don't believe that Jesus was as complex as the religion that followed, and probably would have/did/still is breaking bread with Buddha.
Can I have a chocolate cupcake with white buttercream icing?
Rosemary
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 3:40:44 PM
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That's really nice :)quote:
Originally posted by Annika
I always think that everyone is blessed by a tiny divine spark. God DID make man in his own image. My Thoughts on God are maybe a bit different, but when ever the world and the things coming at me in my life get over whelming , I remind myself that the divine is unmeasurable and too immense for us to even understand. It is always a comforting thought for me, when things in life aren't fair or I feel overwhelmed. The divine, by what ever name, or how the different religions believe and teach, is still "God".
Annika
Farmgirl & sister #13
http://pinterest.com/annikaloveshats/
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~Leonardo DaVinci
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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FarmDream
True Blue Farmgirl
1085 Posts
Julie
TX
USA
1085 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 6:31:01 PM
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What an interesting topic. I'll add a couple of points from my own faith.
I think the pastor is scared of your sister because she might come across as crazy, not righteous. I've never seen her so I couldn't really say.
I do think we are all worshiping a god but it's gotten kind of mucked up over the last few centuries.
I don't believe in a limbo or purgatory. The Bible tells me that when a person dies it's as if they are asleep (limbo? maybe). Then the resurrection comes and we all get told to go left or right. If you get put in the wrong line then you go to what is referred to as Gehenna(sp). This was an ancient place where they dumped all the trash and burned it (hell? maybe). But basically you are wiped from God's mind and cease to exist. It's hard for me to imagine a hell when the Bible says God is going to destroy Satan in the end. So who's gonna run hell if the boss of it is destroyed?
I do believe in baptism. I think it's an actual thing a person does for symbolic reasons. It's an outward demonstration of your inner commitment. I don't think babies can make that decision for themselves. Not to worry. Babies are covered by their parents faithfulness.
What else? Oh yes, faith. I have a lot of faith. Not sure where it comes from but it's there. I saw a sign once and it's a perfect example. "Planting a garden is proof of faith." We wouldn't plant without faith that it would grow.
Thanks for posting this thread. I wish there were more like it.
~FarmDream is Farmgirl Sister #3069
Live Today, Cherish Yesterday, Dream Tomorrow
http://naturaljulie.etsy.com
http://julie-rants.blogspot.com |
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prariehawk
True Blue Farmgirl
2914 Posts
Cindy
2914 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 6:47:04 PM
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I'm currently reading Thich Nhat Hanh's book, Going Home: Jesus and Buddha as Brothers,and I like Buddhism as a philosophy, and I also believe in God. I just don't think the Bible is the final word on God--you can't limit him to a book. For most of the Christian Era, Christians didn't have ready access to a Bible, and they did just fine. God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit, and I believe the Holy Spirit is in everyone, and God can speak to everyone. He can save anyone who wants to be saved, whatever their belief. Call me a heretic, but that's what my experience of God has been.
Cindy
"Vast floods can't quench love, no matter what love did/ Rivers can't drown love, no matter where love's hid"--Sinead O'Connor
"In many ways, you don't just live in the country, it lives inside you"--Ellen Eilers
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
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Dusky Beauty
True Blue Farmgirl
1108 Posts
Jen
Tonopah
AZ
USA
1108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2011 : 10:43:39 PM
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I dismiss the idea that The Bible is insufficient to stand alone and can be augmented, and this is why:
"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2
"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it." Deuteronomy 12:32
"...if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:9-10
"For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you may well put up with it!" 2 Corinthians 11:4 [I.e. don't tolerate heresy]
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5-6
"If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
So the book itself says it's the only acceptable volume.
As a matter of fact, the early church DID have easy access to the text according to the histories. Historical records were a priority, as men like Eusibius and Josephus knew it would be important to future generations for fact checking.
It wasn't until "The Church" of the day went mainstream and told people that The Bible was too sacred for ordinary people to read because ignorant and unlearned people couldn't possibly understand it as a means to get monopoly and power over the religious common folk. It's part of that thing called "religious freedom" the pilgrims and the early amish and mennonites were after.
I agree with Prariehawk that God can certainly speak to anyone he wishes, and he demonstrated it time and time again from Jacob to Paul and I'm sure many undocumented others since. However, it might surprise you how many people will hear the voice of God himself, and it's still not enough for them to change. The expression "the heart wants what it wants" applies.
I also agree that literally anyone could be saved. The entire point of Jesus' recorded death and resurrection was a final sacrifice to answer all sacrifices of anyone ever, but it still falls on a person to accept that gift. There's really nothing he can do if a person still refuses the gift.
Saying that you don't need Jesus as your proxy while practicing another religion is an act of refusal.
Wouldn't it mean that God was yanking your free will to just roll everyone into eternity with Him if they don't get the choice?
I think the point of contention for many is weather or not we have the opportunity as spirit beings to make a decision about where we want to go after we die, but it seems according to scripture, that the cutoff for paperwork is mortal death.
That is such a major detail, that you would think since Paul found time to clarify God's stance on government, divorce, baptism, adultery, charity, marriage, and idolatry he would find time to mention an exception to the rule if there is one. It doesn't appear there is one.
I also agree that Jesus has been very much misrepresented in recent centuries. You have to get back into the original documents (the gospels) and get into the nitty gritty of his life to really understand who he was and what he did.
A lot of people have this idea that Jesus of Nazareth was this nice guy who told everyone to be nice to everyone else, knew lots of scripture, hung out in deserts, ate lots of fish, etc.
What you really have is this radical upstart who came out of nowhere, claimed to be The Son of God, taught scripture not in the name of a rabbi who trained him, but on his own authority. He violently ejected money lenders from the temple. He worked on the sabbath. He ate with gentiles and the unclean (changing their minds about the lives they led in the process.) Jesus was a radical upset that defined for himself who he was and broke out of the narrow box of what The jews were expecting their Messiah to do. He questioned those in powerful positions, ran to those who needed his help, and broke down the bureaucracy and old traditions that separated the common man from God.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
Edited by - Dusky Beauty on Oct 12 2011 11:43:35 PM |
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 06:15:35 AM
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She is m COUSIN, my sister is nice.
I read somewhere im college, I think, that the bible was published 500 years AD, and the cardinals and popes voted on issues like if Jesus was half divine, half man, etc.
This has lead me to the grain of salt attitude. What do you know about this?
To me it says that the scribes work would have been diminished.
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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natesgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1735 Posts
angela
martinsville
indiana
USA
1735 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 07:54:08 AM
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Trish... That was the catholic bible and it is very different from the Bible that is widely accepted and used by all other christian religions. I use the King James Version, which was translated by, of course, King James. It was made up of only those scriptures that the disciples had shown to be divinely given and did not include any scritures that were of questionable sources.
I have found it to contain the most reliable information and to be the closest to the dead sea scrolls. I wish there were a way to get a copy of the dead sea scrolls to use for personal study, but I have only been able to use script from the internet and studies published from them, so it's a bits-and-pieces kind of thing for now.
I have done extensive study for my personal use and have found great amounts of scientific information to back up the accounts of people and places and even some of the miracles in the bible I use, but not for other 'religion specific' versions. I am simply trying to learn all that I can to do things as right as I can. I have changed my religion several times and have never found one that completely agrees with all my beliefs and decisions, but I have found a religion I can agree with for the most part and they are acceptable of my not agreeing with everything, so I call it 'home' for now, so to speak.
I raise my girls to think for themselves and I explain to them the disagriances I have with the church we attend. They will have to make up their own minds eventually, so I want them to be able to do just that. I have been very open with them about the scientific things and about the things that can't be proven scientificly. I want them to be able to make an educated decision when the time comes for them. I have no problems with anyone questioning God's existance or his word or anything, so long as they maintain an open mind for discussion. After all God himself said to come to him so you could reason together. He's ready to talk it over whenever you are, and believe me we have talked it over many, many, many times in my life.
I simply refuse to discuss the subject with my in-laws anymore. They only want to fight and scream and don't want to consider anything I have to say. They often resort to name calling and hatred. I don't like talking to people like that and will avoid them at all costs. I do however love the back and forth banter going on here. This is such a neat way to talk about this!
As for baptism, I disagree with nearly all religions. I do agree you should be baptised if it is possible, but not that it is a requirement for entering Heaven. Spiritual baptism happens to the heart, not the body, and is all that is required. I also disagree with baptising the young and children. Jesus himself was an adult of the age of 30. So reason follows, if we are to be like Him, we are not supposed to be baptised young and as children. We should wait until we are truly ready and have settled the decision for our lives. I believe that is a different age for everyone, but I doubt that as teenagers or young children anyone has truly made that decision. I guess it would be possible, but not accross the board like most churches do. Mine is counted among that number, and it is a point of contention with a few members that my children are unbaptised, but for the most part they understand and accept the fact. I have even changed a few other's point of view and given some who believe as I do an extra support to allow their children to make their own decisions when they are old enough to do so.
I firmly believe that religion and worship is a private matter for each person. I have no problems sharing my beliefs with others and expect that other will share theirs with me. Everyone wants to bring everyone else into their beliefs. It's human nature to feel that way. Even athiest! You have to 'believe' there is no God to be an athiest and they tend to want everyone else to believe that way also. I will listen to them, so long as they don't get mean about it, just as I do with all religions. I will walk away from anyone who gets hateful regardless of what religion or belief they are pushing, even my own. I think we are remiss in our efforts in life if we immediately dismiss any and all discusion of anything other than our own. I have found things taught by other religions to be helpful in my personal beliefs by showing me the other side of the coin and giving me a better picture of what I'm looking at over all.
Remember, everyone can be good for something in the war agianst evil. If you don't want to shoot, carry bullets for those that do, tend to the wounded, cook in the mess hall, keep the home fires burning, or just be a good 'bad example'. LOL! I heard a preacher say that once and I thought it was cute! Many times in my life I have been nothing more than a good 'bad example', but I would like to think I have risen above that now!
Well, I think I have been on my soapbox long enough. I need to move and give one of you other ladies a turn for a bit. I'll go sit down in the group now! Who's next for the floor?!?
Farmgirl Sister #1438
God - Gardening - Family - Is anything else important? |
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Cherime
True Blue Farmgirl
1222 Posts
Cherime
Wasilla
Alaska
USA
1222 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 08:49:43 AM
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Personally I think that the religious spirit is out to wreck the church from the inside. A guy by the name of Steve Crosby wrote a book called "legalism, The Killer of Faith" (pretty close anyway) and he pointed out that legalism is the very thing that drives those needing it most away from fellowship.
Being hateful is not Christ-like and does not help anyone understand the enormous love that our God has for people. We cannot perform anything that is going to get us into a better relationship with God, we can only seek to know him better and accept that love that is offered.
Yep, agreed Jesus was a radical upstart and up set the traditions and entrenched religious spirit that was flourishing in Israel at that time. He even stated that his message was going to cause disruption.
By the way I understand that one thing taught in the Jewish faith is that God put a piece of his DNA in each of us and that we are to try to live up to the possibilities, hope and love that resides in us because of that piece of the divine (think I have that correctly). Blessings ladies.
CMF |
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 08:54:54 AM
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Angela,
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed might be interesting to you. It's about Intelligent Design. I LOVED it. I saw Ben Stein at Walmart!
Thanks for your post. It's given me a lot to think about.
LOL @ war on evil.
I like to think about Jesus coming back, and what peoples' perception of him would be. Would they think he was insane, with all his sharing and loving our cast outs? Would Mary get turned away from the Motel 6? Would they ride public transit? I like to think he would still be a carpenter.
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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Dusky Beauty
True Blue Farmgirl
1108 Posts
Jen
Tonopah
AZ
USA
1108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 1:12:27 PM
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Trish, you would really get a lot out of "The Case For Christ". You can see the full documentary on netflix or even youtube (you just have to have a youtube account, they have it age-flagged).
The gist is Lee Strobel was a reporter for a big national paper and a die hard atheist. His wife got involved in a church and started inviting him so he set out to *investigate* Christianity and follow the evidence to prove that Jesus was some kind of a scam.
He interviewed many experts and scholars and investigated all the theories like Jesus not being who he said he was, the rumors surrounding the death and resurrection, and he investigates how reliable those copies of copies of copies of scriptures are.
Funny enough, watching The Tudors is what really drove home a lot of the issues surrounding the early church. The bulk of Henry the VIII's reign, he was at the center of religious upset in Europe. When the pope would not give him a divorce from his devout first wife Catherine of Aragon, he turned to the reformationists who told him they would take his side and annul his marriage. The favored face of Christianity in England changed at his whim and as it suited his wants and politics. Catholics and Lutherans met equal fates of torture and execution for refusing to renounce their beliefs and adopt the king as the head of the church of england.
The series really drives home why the mainstream church frequently "voted on" and "investigated" and "modified" religious dogma, it was all in the interest of politics and favor of kings.
Historically, the body of Christ has been strongest when it's not mainstream, and faced with heavy adversity. It flourished and exploded in the roman empire in the early centuries despite the threat of torture and execution, secret churches in Russia, China and now North Korea are swelling with sheer numbers where meeting as a church, preaching or owning a bible means prison or death today.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
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AmethystRose
True Blue Farmgirl
254 Posts
Rosemary
Huntingdon
PA
USA
254 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 2:50:37 PM
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| The King James Bible was not translated by him. It was the product of a politically appointed committee composed of Catholic and Protestant scholars and published during his reign. James came from Scotland as the heir of Queen Elizabeth I, Henry VIII's daughter. There is a book named "God's Secretaries" which gives the story. |
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prariehawk
True Blue Farmgirl
2914 Posts
Cindy
2914 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 2:51:35 PM
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Legalism is the reason why I haven't attended church lately. That, and people who gossip. About me, in church, before and during the service. As for the Bible, I believe it is a Holy book, and it irritates me when people try to turn it into a text book. I've seen the hand of God at work in my life many times, and I maintain that there's always more to learn about God. Above all, God is Mystery. It takes an open mind to be open to His ways. Everyone's experience of God is not the same. Yes, it bothers me when atheists want to remove all reference to God from society, but it also bothers me when people want "God" back in the schools. They mean THEIR version of God. Do you think they would fight for a Muslim's right to pray to Allah? We need God, we're all spiritual creatures, but let each of us come to Him in our own way.
Cindy
"Vast floods can't quench love, no matter what love did/ Rivers can't drown love, no matter where love's hid"--Sinead O'Connor
"In many ways, you don't just live in the country, it lives inside you"--Ellen Eilers
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22937 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22937 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2011 : 6:23:04 PM
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Ladies- I have to say I am so impressed at the range of opinions expressed on this thread and how kind and sisterly everyone has discussed everything. We obviously have opinions that span a broad spectrum and I too am loving the discussion.
I must admit that often times I cringe when I see a posting of religious nature because it can so quickly turn a corner to something that is not kind or sisterly. I really respect every woman on this thread because of the love and yes- restraint everyone has shown. Religion and Politics are hot buttons that can often cause us to be a tad bit more fiesty than we normally would be with our friends and relatives.
Anyway- I had to say how impressed I am.
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
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Family Matters: ? for Christians...Now being asked in Gathered Up |
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? for Christians...Now being asked in Gathered Up
