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Family Matters:  ? for Christians...Now being asked in Gathered Up  |
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Amie C.
True Blue Farmgirl
2099 Posts
Finger Lakes Region
NY
2099 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 12:16:41 AM
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Alee, you're so right. This is a great thread.
Trish, to be honest, your cousin sounds like she's got a lot of issues. I wouldn't take her pronouncements on Christianity as a good representation of the religion.
I can contribute a little more information on some of your questions.
quote:
I read somewhere im college, I think, that the bible was published 500 years AD, and the cardinals and popes voted on issues like if Jesus was half divine, half man, etc.
This has lead me to the grain of salt attitude. What do you know about this?
To me it says that the scribes work would have been diminished.
The Jewish scriptures that make up the Old Testament of the Christian Bible were all written and being used as scripture before the lifetime of Jesus.
The books that make up the New Testament were all written by about 100 AD and, along with other writings that didn't end up in the Bible, were used by the various Christian churches established in different parts of the Roman Empire. Early Christianity was a far-flung, loosely organized movement at first. Technically it was an illegal religion in the Roman Empire until the 4th century, although it was only actively suppressed/persecuted in certain times and places (ironically, considering your cousin's habit, it was a lot like marijuana usage in the US currently--lots of people doing it anyway until finally the Empire had to legalize it.)
The final "canon" of the New Testament that we know today was established by 400 AD at the latest. It didn't come out of nowhere, it was a gradual recognition of the books that all the churches had been using for a long time already and that had the most historical authenticity to tie them to the original disciples of Jesus. There are a lot of other early Christian writings that didn't make the cut, including the famous "Gnostic gospels." If you're interested, you can find all the known writings collected in one handy book: http://www.amazon.com/Testament-Other-Early-Christian-Writings/dp/0195154649/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318575288&sr=1-1
The process of making decisions about things like the books of the Bible took place at meetings of church leaders and theologians, called Ecumenical Councils. What you're referring to with the "was Jesus half man and half divine" issue was the Council of Nicea (325 AD). The concept that we know as the Trinity (God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) was formalized at this council (that's the source of the Nicene Creed, which is still recited in some services in the Catholic church and many Protestant churches).
As far as diminishing the original writings, I've never found a basic conflict between the teachings of Christ and the teachings of the early church. This process of making a unified, formal religion out of what had started with the life and teachings of Jesus got started almost immediately. You can see in the New Testament how the early Christians tried to work out just what it was they believed and how they should live. The majority of the New Testament is actually letters written by Paul to the churches in different cities (the Ephesians, the Galations, etc.) to try to settle the problems they encountered. The Ecumenical Councils continued this process, and hey, we're still trying to hash it out here on this forum centuries later. |
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 06:50:09 AM
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I would just like to say that i am in no way against medical marijuana, but it really needs to be regulated better. They are abusers. They smoked pot before medical marijuana was ever an idea. It should be for people with AIDS, Cancer, MS.
I am so totally impressed with all of this knowledge. I can see that Christ is really your true passion.
No matter what an atheist or an agnostic person thinks, there really is no denying the power of Christ, just by the passion of his followers, and what they can do.
Here's what happened.
I was in 6th grade, maybe, watching Nat'l Geo w/Dad. The story was a yogi in India(?) that had been sitting on a rock, next to a river, living in a crack in the rock, praying for the soul of the world, for 25 years. I told him that my Girl Scout leader said, that unless you let Christ into your heart, you will go to hell. He asked if I thought a man that prayed for everyone else all day long deserved to go to hell. I said no.
I have cut off communication with my cousin. It's been almost three months. She betrayed my trust by broadcasting my personal business about my religious beliefs. I feel like she views her belief in Christ as being better than me. Or at least having a bond with other family members, that always leads to talk about, poor lost Little Trisha. Then that way she can make sure the family gossip is not about her (husband) or how she uses her mom.
My entire adult single life, I had family calling, saying, save your cousin, get an apt with her and her three kids. Save her from her husband.
Now I have family calling, oh, have you seen your cousin?
Isn't that the funny part? I'm going to hell, but you want my goodness and my brain to rub off on her?
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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FebruaryViolet
True Blue Farmgirl
4810 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4810 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 07:37:00 AM
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I, too, would like to give my admiration to this thread and how eloquent and thoughtful the discussion has been. Though I was raised in church, I found the building, the doctrine a bit stifling, and as a ballerina with friends in MANY different circles, the teachings of the church often conflicted with my feelings about the dear people I knew and loved well. I do consider myself a faithful person and try to live by example. Afterall, Jesus chose prostitutes and other undesirables over men in the Temple.
I ran across this picture today and not at all to minimize or trivialize this conversation, I thought Trish might like it:
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
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Amie C.
True Blue Farmgirl
2099 Posts
Finger Lakes Region
NY
2099 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2011 : 4:11:14 PM
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| Takes a cat to stare down the Buddha! |
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queenmushroom
True Blue Farmgirl
985 Posts
Lorena
Centerville
Me
USA
985 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2011 : 5:53:46 PM
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I have already been told I am going to hell. Anything you would ever say couldn't be worse than that, right?
I guess my question is still not answered. I am guessing that most Christians believe the afterlife is for Christians only? What's with the recruitment?
Trish,
First of all, if a person wants to get to heaven, they have to believe that there is only one God. They have to accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior and repent of our sins. They also have to live by the requirments set by Jesus Christ in the New Testament, some of which most people do. Even though christians have been saved by Jesus, we still sin. And it is our responsibility to repent of our sins. For a christian who is high and mighty, he/she needs a reality check. For a christian to say he/she knows God's mind and intention, who does this person think he/she is? Regarding tithing and offerings, how is God's work going to happen if we, as christians don't give? I try very hard not to judge. People say that God is love, but don't want to live the life as a Christian. Well, isn't God our Father? Doesn't HE reserve the right to punish us in the end if we do not repent, just as our earthly parents (who love us) would if we did something intolerable as a child? I'm not judging anyone. I'm just trying to show a different perspective. We all have free will, which was given to us in Genesis. You do what you need to. I will do what I need to. If you wish to become a Christian when all else fails, then I'll rejoice for you and help you along the best I can with the help of Jesus. I'll still help you along with the help of Jesus whether you're christian or not. The Golden Rule: Treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.
Lorie |
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2011 : 05:16:48 AM
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I can't find that GIANT thread that says Christian Farmgirls, or Are there any Christian Farmgirls? You know the one. Help it's 5 AM.
LORENA!
I really like your post. Welcome. Jumping right in.
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22937 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22937 Posts |
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queenmushroom
True Blue Farmgirl
985 Posts
Lorena
Centerville
Me
USA
985 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2011 : 11:55:10 AM
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Thanx Trish. I have an atheist friend. I grew up with her through school. She believes what all the atheist leaders say about christians. It hurts me and aggravates me at the same time. The examples that these atheistic leaders are using are to the extreme (at least thats what I get from her fb posts). It just seems to me that in order to be open minded, atheist or not, one has to read the Bible from cover to cover, both old and new testament. Then base your conclusions from there. If I've offended anyone, I'm sorry.
Hugs,
Lorie |
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Amie C.
True Blue Farmgirl
2099 Posts
Finger Lakes Region
NY
2099 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2011 : 1:40:43 PM
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| Lorena, I've got a bunch of friends like that. We all expressed plenty of doubts and questions about religions in the past, but suddenly in the last few years they've become militantly anti-Christian (actually, they lump all religions together as "bad" without recognizing any difference between them). It's hard not be hurt when they're ranting on about how stupid, brainwashed, deceitful, and just plain geneticly inferior all "religious morons" are. Hello, I'm right here? We've been friends for years, remember? I haven't changed, but they sure have. |
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Amie C.
True Blue Farmgirl
2099 Posts
Finger Lakes Region
NY
2099 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2011 : 1:44:43 PM
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| But what I got online to post was this: I just saw something on a PBS documentary about India that reminded me of this thread. A Jesuit priest in India is trying to ease religious tensions between Hindus and Muslims by organizing cricket teams where Hindu and Muslim boys from the slums play together. What a sweet idea. I thought it was rather touching that the priest doesn't seem to find anything strange in working with other faiths. He seems to think it's weirder for him to be involved with cricket. "Football's my game, I'm more of a football player," he said (meaning soccer, of course). |
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Melina
True Blue Farmgirl
435 Posts
Melina
USA
435 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2011 : 2:30:03 PM
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Trish, I've been thinking about this thread and what my answer should be since you posted it. My only suggestion would be for you to take the question directly to God. In your meditation, ask Him who He is and what it has to do with you. He is much more capable and willing to answer than any human is. We all have our prejudices and pet beliefs, but the maker of the universe is the final authority.
The morning breeze has secrets to tell you. Do not go back to sleep.
Rumi |
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Dusky Beauty
True Blue Farmgirl
1108 Posts
Jen
Tonopah
AZ
USA
1108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2011 : 4:34:28 PM
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Lorena,
Christians generally agknowlege that there are two possible destinations in the afterlife; either heaven or hell.
The idea of limbo basically only applies to someone who may be in a spirit state consciously awaiting judgement of their lives. I believe it is briefly mentioned in Revelation as a vision of the man who wrote the book. It's not really emphasized, and probably doesn't last long. I don't really picture a giant celestial waiting room, but that's just my opinion, I make no authoritative claims on the matter, and it seems that that is only a "your life in review" process, no input from you at that point is likely to make a difference. See below.
Followers of Christ and The Bible have a goal of understanding the nature of God and to have a relationship with him as a heavenly father. In that process you come to understand that God is the embodiment of all things that are good, while his opponent (Lucifer, Satan, the devil, whatever you want to call him) represents the ultimate rebellion against God's authority. In his rebellion, he's made it a full time aeons-long gig of trying to stick it to God and undermining everything he does. Mostly that means warping God's good things, and making them bad.
Satan was the first evolutionist. He believed God was just the first thing on the scene, not necessarily his better so he took his pride into open war, and the cause was dethroning God and taking his place. Satan's drawback in terms of power is that he is unable to create, only to twist was already exists to his own ends. He couldn't make his own angels, so he twisted God's angels to his own logic. These fallen angels are what we call demons.
Hell was created as a place of exile for these spirit beings after the end of time. They don't live there now, it's a place of torment they don't want to end up.
Heaven is where God lives. There is nothing short of his perfection there, and Satan has no control there. The thing is, God can't even look at sin. My mortal understanding does not permit me to know why, it's just written that he can't. He even had to turn away from Jesus on the cross because of all the sin he was carrying for others. Maybe it's grief and sorrow, maybe it's spiritual physics. I dunno.
The main thing that concerns us though, is that God can't exist with any kind of impurity brought about by sin. We run into trouble when pretty much every single thing on earth is tainted somehow. You try naming something good and pure, and Satan has a method to twist it into something ugly. You can try to be 100% good all your life and you'll still have some kind of flaw that God can't look at.
The whole point of Jesus is that he is the bridge to get us from our natural state, to clean enough to live with God. He's not just the sacrifice, he is the face of God that can look at us and work with us because he is human as well as God.
The fact is, according to biblical lore, that unless Jesus is the one to settle your debt; no sacrifice, no confession, no cleansing ritual will ever wash all the ugliness of your life away so that you can exist with God in a pure form in a perfect universe.
Biblical lore also informs us that there is only one other destination for those that don't make the choice to commit to persuing Godliness.
It doesn't sound very pleasant to say that God sentences anyone who isn't Christian to hell, but the only book that God is on record of endorsing is the bible and those are the only options it gives. Live eternally with God, or eternally cut off from God.
According to Christian belief, what you choose for yourself is completely in your hands. It's simply written that God made a simple way for anyone who wants to come to heaven to do it.
If he was a jerk, he could have just said "sux to be you guys" and only welcomed jews. Or scrapped humanity completely and tried again with wookies.
Anyway. I don't think less of anyone who doesn't follow my faith (or doesn't follow my faith yet.) Lots of people in my worldview are all kinds of loss and weather you are really lost or only a little lost doesn't really matter. But you'll never want to walk my way if I scream it at you.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2011 : 05:41:52 AM
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@Jen
"Anyway. I don't think less of anyone who doesn't follow my faith (or doesn't follow my faith yet.) Lots of people in my worldview are all kinds of loss and weather you are really lost or only a little lost doesn't really matter. But you'll never want to walk my way if I scream it at you."
You earn the Monday Morning Whammy Bar for that.
@Melina,
When I read you post, I felt like my head was being pet, you're awesome.
ALEE?!?! Should I have started this on the Christian farmgirl thread? Do you want me to move my own discussion there. I honestly didn't realize the points of view on the Bible, God; would vary so drastically among Christians. I was under the impression that it is just cut and dry for people who follow the Bible. I can see now, why a religious conversation, even with ladies of the same faith, can turn sour. I'm sorry ahead of time if I cause a locked topic. uugh
OH and thanks for the link.
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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one_dog_per_acre
True Blue Farmgirl
1572 Posts
Trish
Sandpoint
ID
USA
1572 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2011 : 05:57:14 AM
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I am going to move my questions over to the Christian thread. I hope I don't lose you all. I have to figure out what Bible to buy. I also have a question about faith healing, that I will post OVER THERE.
Yesterday I saw my cousin. I tried to stay away from her, and realized that I am not a care of hers when there is bigger gossip to spread.
Trish
Make cupcakes not war!
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Clee
Farmgirl in Training
17 Posts
Cindy
Hampton
VA
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2011 : 8:43:56 PM
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I am so sorry about your cousin's attitudes and actions and how they are affecting your view of Christians.
When I first met Jesus Christ, I fell in love with Him because of His love for me. I was a mom of 3 children with a good and loving husband-not desperate, down-on-life, etc. But I KNEW there was a place in me that was empty. Jesus sent the perfect person into my life to introduce me to Him. She never preached to me about Him, she just became a very good and kind friend to me.
Once I went to her home to take her a booklet of a product I was selling. She fed me and my little ones breakfast and we sat at their table. In the middle of that table was a lazy-Susan with a book in the middle of it. The rest of the table was unadorned. The cover of the book drew my attention...It looked like a novel and was entitled, "The Book". As a child, I went to church and occasionally as an adult as well, but I had never seen this version of what turned out to be a Bible.
I picked it up, with her permission, and started to read somewhere in the middle. It drew me like a magnet and I just could not put it down. I was so quickly immersed into it that it was a little embarrassing...I didn't care about breakfast or selling my goods or talking or ANYTHING.
She gave me The Book that day, and maybe didn't know the can of worms she'd opened...I would read something every single day I'd never heard of and call her for an explanation! Not long after that, I went to her church and experienced fresh music adoring Jesus and a church packed with Jesus lovers. It wasn't long before I joined their ranks, tears streaming as I not only believed that Jesus had existed, and taught excellent lessons, but that He still exists and rules and loves every single soul. That day, I took the most important step and what many would feel is the most brave...I trusted my life to a new Lord. Not me anymore, but Him. That was 27 years ago.
Since then, have I run across Christians such as your cousin? Certainly. Have I failed to always display Christ's love? You better believe it. Have I even failed worse by judging others? Yes, even that, I am sad to confess.
But one thing has and always will remain: His love for me in spite of my failings. He always draws me back in.
Not so long ago, because of my own hurt, I pulled away from God by pulling away from His people. It was the most difficult time of my Christian walk...I am only now getting to the other side of that lonely time.
But HE never left me or gave up on me. This is something a Christian who has a relationship, not just a head knowledge, with Jesus can actually feel and know in their deepest heart.
Sometimes, there are things, as Christians, that we have to stand on. Recently, I was invited to a tarot card and psychic reading. I didn't want to offend the person who invited me, so avoided responding. She told me her psychic abilities told her we had some 'bad air' between us. In my thoughts, it doesn't take rocket science or psychic abilities to understand when someone's avoiding you. This lady used to claim Christianity but now walks a different road. I have known this and continued in a friendship with her. She is well-aware of my Christian stand, yet tested me by asking me to attend something she knows Christians don't generally attend. When she confronted me about not replying, I had to say that I don't attend readings because I don't believe Jesus is pleased with us seeking alternative powers. [Why? Because He knows where that power comes from and if it's not from Him, it's not in our best interest.] As I feared, she became very offended and told me she no longer wanted me to be a part of her life. I call this reverse judgment, much akin to reverse discrimination.
It is in times like these when I find it most difficult to practice Jesus' teaching of loving others regardless of what they do to you. I am still struggling, to be honest, with this situation...especially because she is also speaking against me to others. Friend, we Christians are still PEOPLE. We have feelings and temptations just like any other person! But perhaps out of a fear of being judged, those who are not Christians often lump us all into this ugly pile of 'hypocrites'. But when they do so, are they not playing judge themselves?
But Jesus tolerated so much MORE mistreatment...who am I to think I'm better than He or that my way, what we have labeled, 'the way of the flesh', is more effective/better than His way...'the way of the Spirit'? His way says turn the cheek. My way says do unto her what she has done unto me. But I won't because I love Him, want to please Him and remember that I am no longer my own, but His.
The longer I live as a Christian, the more opportunities to react as a non-Christian arise. But He gives me the strength to follow His way, and when I do, this is what I have found: After a time, He turns it all around and uses it for good. Maybe not always my immediate good, but somewhere, someway, somehow, He works it for good.
I just can't imagine any other 'god' out there loving me the way He does. He is just so very wonderful and I do hope that one day you get to know HIM, not just ABOUT Him, personally so you can experience the love He's dying...no, DIED, to give us all.
There is just so much more to Jesus than most people take the time to discover. I hope you'll grab your own, "The Book" and see what you find there. If you do, you might want to start in the Book of John.
Many, many blessings to you-and I really mean that.
You can take the girl from the farm, but never the farm from the girl.
http://www.thenourishednana.blogspot.com |
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Dusky Beauty
True Blue Farmgirl
1108 Posts
Jen
Tonopah
AZ
USA
1108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2011 : 12:33:48 PM
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Cindy, come join us in the Christian farmgirls thread in "gathered up"-- we'd be oh so happy to have you :)
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
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Family Matters: ? for Christians...Now being asked in Gathered Up |
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? for Christians...Now being asked in Gathered Up
