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Barnyard Buddies:  help...neighbors dog killed my hens. update  |
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henlady35904
True Blue Farmgirl
295 Posts
Kim
Gadsden
Alabama
USA
295 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 6:37:04 PM
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Hello farmgirls, I need your help. My neighbors dogs have killed my hens again. This is the third time and I saw them this time. I sent both neighbors a certified letter with the cost of the chicken tractor, 4 hens, future egg production about 2 weeks ago. I asked them for full pymt within 10 days of receiving letter. Have not heard from one (who is a deputy sheriff in my county) so I called him today and asked if he was going to do anything about it, he said they together would pay $50.00 for the hens but "no judge anywhere will make us pay for future egg production". So I need help with any law you all can help me with, looks like we are going to court! Thanks!!!
By the way its in Alabama.
Farmgirl #2667 |
Edited by - henlady35904 on Aug 27 2011 4:55:31 PM |
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farmmilkmama
True Blue Farmgirl
2027 Posts
Amy
Central MN
USA
2027 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 6:53:16 PM
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I'm not sure about future egg production, but we're in a different state. What are the laws in your town regarding dogs? Do they have a leash law? I can't believe this is the third time a neighbors dogs have killed your hens! Are the dogs coming into your yard? Is your yard fenced? Is their yard fenced? I'm sorry that you're having such a rough time with this neighbor and that his animals are making it impossible for you to keep hens. I'd be mad as heck! Did the dogs demolish the chicken tractor? Were the chickens in it? What exactly happened?
--* FarmMilkMama *--
Farmgirl Sister #1086
Be yourself.
Everyone else is already taken.
-Oscar Wilde
www.farmfoodmama.blogspot.com
www.thehmmmschoolingmom.blogspot.com |
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henlady35904
True Blue Farmgirl
295 Posts
Kim
Gadsden
Alabama
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 7:51:09 PM
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According to the Code of Alabama... No person shall keep any dog which has been known to kill stock, dog owner liable for double the value of all stock.No one can tell me for sure if there is a leash law. Yes the dogs are coming into my yard. Neither yards are fenced. They live about 1/4 mile away. The chickens were in the tractor roosting. I had a s/s mesh wire put on the bottom of the nest to keep dogs from digging under. They instead went chewing thru the air vent and thru the heavy gauge wire on the side. I couldn't keep the pen all closed up it has been in upper 90's here. Yes four hens were malled and chewed and just left. Two were still in the pen and two were laying outside the pen all DEAD!
Farmgirl #2667 |
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oldbittyhen
True Blue Farmgirl
1511 Posts
tina
quartz hill
ca
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 7:59:04 PM
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In my state, if a dog or dogs attacks your livestock, you have the legal right to shoot those dogs, and if you can't, since the owner is an officer of the law, he should shoot/euthanize his dogs, cause they will never quit, once they start killing for fun, there's almost no chance of breaking the habit...and I would still take them to small claims court for your hens, and when you do, bring everything you can find regarding your hens future egg production, get farmers/ranchers and other chicken owners statements, along with (I hope you took them ) pictures of all the carnage and damage...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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henlady35904
True Blue Farmgirl
295 Posts
Kim
Gadsden
Alabama
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 8:06:51 PM
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I did take pictures and the deputy who came out and didn't want to make a report, told me and my bf that the dog owner had told him about his dog killing chickens and didn't know what he was gonna do about it. With my insistance he did make a report. But the thing I do not understand, the dogs are still running loose!
Farmgirl #2667 |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 8:26:32 PM
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Actually it is Double the value of the livestock:
http://law.onecle.com/alabama/animals/3-1-1.html
No person shall keep any dog which has been known to kill or worry sheep or other stock without being set upon the same. Any person knowingly keeping such dog is liable for double the value of all stock killed or injured by such dog, such damages to be recovered by the owner of such stock before any court of competent jurisdiction and no action shall be maintained against anyone for killing such dog.
However the same law does unfortunatly put a cap on the penalty for killing poultry:
http://law.onecle.com/alabama/animals/3-1-4.html
Any person, who, owning or having in his possession or under his control any dog or hog known to worry or kill sheep, domestic fowls or goats suffers such dog or hog to run at large must, on conviction, be fined not less than $5.00 nor more than $50.00.
(Code 1876, §4405; Code 1886, §4171; Code 1896, §5591; Code 1907, §6236; Code 1923, §3219; Code 1940, T. 3, §4.)
What I would advise is tell him that you will take the $50 for the death of the poultry and but that he also needs to make restitution to you for the damage of the chicken tractor. Treat it as two seperate crimes. If he will not make resonable restitution AND restrain or PTS his animals- then advise him that you will file with small claims court.
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
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henlady35904
True Blue Farmgirl
295 Posts
Kim
Gadsden
Alabama
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 8:44:57 PM
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Hey Alee, Both neighbors have told me that they are not going to keep their dog tied up. "just makes um mean". Am I missing something here?
Farmgirl #2667 |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 10:52:13 PM
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You aren't missing anything- he is definitly breaking the law:
Section 3-1-5 - Permitting dogs to run at large; applicability of provisions of section in counties and certain cities or towns.
(a) Every person owning or having in charge any dog or dogs shall at all times confine such dog or dogs to the limits of his own premises or the premises on which such dog or dogs is or are regularly kept. Nothing in this section shall prevent the owner of any dog or dogs or other person or persons having such dog or dogs in his or their charge from allowing such dog or dogs to accompany such owner or other person or persons elsewhere than on the premises on which such dog or dogs is or are regularly kept. Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $2.00 nor more than $50.00.
(b) This section shall not apply to the running at large of any dog or dogs within the corporate limits of any city or town in this state that requires a license tag to be kept on dogs nor shall this section apply in any county in this state until the same has been adopted by the county commission of such county.
(Acts 1915, No. 185, p. 259; Code 1923, §3221; Code 1940, T. 3, §5.)
Sections: Previous 3-1-1 3-1-2 3-1-3 3-1-4 3-1-5 3-1-6 3-1-7 3-1-8 3-1-10 3-1-11 3-1-11.1 3-1-13 3-1-15 3-1-16 3-1-17 Next
Last modified: March 2, 2010
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2011 : 11:06:34 PM
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So basically what I would do is write a letter stating each violation and what section of Alabama State Law Code, Title 3 it is.
So something to the effect of:
Dear Mr. So and So;
On such and such date, your dog entered my property and proceded to cause sufficient damage to my chicken tractor to such an extent that the animal was then able to enter the chicken tractor and killed or caused the death of 4 chickens. These chickens were of egg bearing age and were contributing to the financial well being of my farm. In order to replace these chickens is well over $13 a piece. Mrs. Friend and I witnessed your dog in the act of killing my chickens.
Seeing as how your dog has killed my chickens in the past, you are violating Alabama State Law. Per Alabama State Law, Title 3 Section 1-1-1: Keeping of dog known to kill, etc., stock prohibited; liability of owner for injuries, etc., caused by same; liability for killing of same.
No person shall keep any dog which has been known to kill or worry sheep or other stock without being set upon the same. Any person knowingly keeping such dog is liable for double the value of all stock killed or injured by such dog, such damages to be recovered by the owner of such stock before any court of competent jurisdiction and no action shall be maintained against anyone for killing such dog.
State Law Title 3 Section 3-1-3 also applies: Section 3-1-3 - Liability of owner, etc., permitting vicious or dangerous animal to be at liberty, etc., for injuries caused by same.
When any person owns or keeps a vicious or dangerous animal of any kind and, as a result of his careless management of the same or his allowing the same to go at liberty, and another person, without fault on his part, is injured thereby, such owner or keeper shall be liable in damages for such injury.
And:
Section 3-1-5 - Permitting dogs to run at large; applicability of provisions of section in counties and certain cities or towns.
(a) Every person owning or having in charge any dog or dogs shall at all times confine such dog or dogs to the limits of his own premises or the premises on which such dog or dogs is or are regularly kept. Nothing in this section shall prevent the owner of any dog or dogs or other person or persons having such dog or dogs in his or their charge from allowing such dog or dogs to accompany such owner or other person or persons elsewhere than on the premises on which such dog or dogs is or are regularly kept. Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $2.00 nor more than $50.00.
(b) This section shall not apply to the running at large of any dog or dogs within the corporate limits of any city or town in this state that requires a license tag to be kept on dogs nor shall this section apply in any county in this state until the same has been adopted by the county commission of such county.
And:
Section 3-1-6 - Liability of owner, etc., for injuries to livestock, etc., caused by dog while off premises of owner, etc.
If any dog, not being at the time on the premises of the owner or person having charge thereof, shall kill or injure any livestock, the owner or person having such dog in charge shall be liable for damages sustained by the killing or maiming of any livestock and for the full costs of the action.
Due to these clearly stated laws, I am submitting this request to have you pay ($$$) for the replacement of my chickens, repair (or replacement) of the chicken tractor, and also I request that your dogs are secured upon your property. If you are unable to comply with this request by Such and Such date, I will be forced to file a suit against you in small claims court.
Sincerely,
Kim
That is the general gist of what I would write, and again send certified mail, keep copies of EVERYTHING and be prepared with a comprehensive and realistic breakdown of what financial value the chickens do give to the farm. I would expect to only get the $50 for the chickens, even though they do contribute through eggs, it doesn't seem that Alabama law supports future earnings restitution. However, what I would really push for is money to repair the chicken tractor and also to have his dogs restrained on his property either through fence or kennel or to have them rehomed or PTS. Your farm should not be suffering due to their poor management of their canines.
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
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henlady35904
True Blue Farmgirl
295 Posts
Kim
Gadsden
Alabama
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2011 : 06:53:54 AM
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Thanks farmgirls for all the advise!
Farmgirl #2667 |
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Ms.Lilly
True Blue Farmgirl
826 Posts
Lillian
Scotts Mills
OR
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2011 : 09:55:25 AM
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| Pretty simple in my mind- if a dog is on my property killing my livestock then I have the right to kill it. What if next time that dog decides to attack a child instead of a chicken? |
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MrsRooster
True Blue Farmgirl
1168 Posts
Amy
Seabrook
TX
USA
1168 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2011 : 10:19:05 AM
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Leash laws are Nation wide. No one has the right to let their animals roam.
You should also go to Legal Aid and they can help you find a lawyer at little to no cost to you. Especially since it involves a law enforcement officer. This can lead to trouble in itself.
You may have to shoot them. If they are on YOUR properity and You see them doing it, you have the right to shoot them. But understand that Mr. Law Enforcement will make it hard for you. You may have to fence your hens in a run of there own. How far do you want to go?
www.mrsrooster.blogspot.com
www.morganicinstitute.blogspot.com
Farmgirl #1259
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oldbittyhen
True Blue Farmgirl
1511 Posts
tina
quartz hill
ca
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2011 : 10:21:56 AM
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I would practice the 3 S's, shoot, shovel and shut-up, and still take them to court...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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FarmGirlonPark
Farmgirl in Training
30 Posts
Kelda
Des Moines
Iowa
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2011 : 1:36:43 PM
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I'm so sorry this has happened to you and your girls. So frustrating on so many levels...I hope everything turns out to your satisfaction.
God Bless & Happy Trails!
Kelda
Farmgirl on Park |
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Dusky Beauty
True Blue Farmgirl
1108 Posts
Jen
Tonopah
AZ
USA
1108 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2011 : 3:51:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by oldbittyhen
I would practice the 3 S's, shoot, shovel and shut-up, and still take them to court...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad"
4 S's!!
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
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farmmilkmama
True Blue Farmgirl
2027 Posts
Amy
Central MN
USA
2027 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2011 : 4:03:23 PM
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HA! The four S's!!! :) Sounds good to me. I told my husband about this situation and he was appalled. My husband, a deputy, said this neighbor of yours is just being ridiculous by breaking a law that he should KNOW being a person in law enforcement. Unfortunately, I think the fact that he is a deputy could make this difficult for you, especially if he wants to throw his weight around and all. I vote for the 4 s's as well!! :) Gosh, I don't know what happened to you dog...I haven't seen them for a few days. I was assuming you decided to shape up and keep them penned so they stop harassing my animals. You mean...they aren't at your house? You haven't seen them either? STRANGE! ;)
--* FarmMilkMama *--
Farmgirl Sister #1086
Be yourself.
Everyone else is already taken.
-Oscar Wilde
www.farmfoodmama.blogspot.com
www.thehmmmschoolingmom.blogspot.com |
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oldbittyhen
True Blue Farmgirl
1511 Posts
tina
quartz hill
ca
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2011 : 4:52:10 PM
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I called the sheriffs station here where I live, know several personaly, they said the same thing, your deputy neighbor is WRONG, and breaking the law, and should be reported and sued...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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henlady35904
True Blue Farmgirl
295 Posts
Kim
Gadsden
Alabama
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2011 : 08:02:19 AM
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I just can't believe the deputy guy is being so RUDE and abnoxious! Thanks for all the good advise, I will keep you all posted!
Farmgirl Sister #2667 |
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Lieberkim
True Blue Farmgirl
839 Posts
Kimberly
Sunnyside
WASHINGTON
USA
839 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 11:29:29 AM
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| Dogs will be dogs unfortunately, but the owners of the dogs need to take care of the situation. My neighbor's dog came over and killed my chickens too. I went over and told them and showed them a dead chicken. Fortunately my neighbor is a good neighbor and they apologized, offered to pay for the chickens and have kept their dog contained since. I accepted their apology, refused their money (might as well keep friendly neighbors, next time it could be one of my animals causes trouble), and am thankful their dog is not over here causing trouble. I've seen it once since on my place and I yelled for it to go home and it took off like a shot. I'm sorry your neighbors are being turds. I'd check the laws to make sure but my understanding is that if a dog is coming to your place and causing trouble you have the right to shoot it. I had to do this once. Neighbors had dogs that were packing up and roaming around killing calves, sheep etc. One of them came to our place and growled at my family and caused some hassle with my livestock. Three times I took the dog back to the owners and asked them to keep it confined because it was causing trouble. The fourth time I shot it. When their dog didn't come home they called asking if it was there, I answered truthfully, yes it's dead. My neighbor came up to support me when they came to get their dog and informed them that her husband would have shot it if I hadn't and a ton of other neighbors were going to do the same. I had called the police before I did anything and received conformation that I was within my rights. It doesn't make it any more pleasant and it doesn't help neighbor relations a whole lot but they aren't making much of an effort at neighbor relations either and you need to protect your family and livestock. |
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henlady35904
True Blue Farmgirl
295 Posts
Kim
Gadsden
Alabama
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 4:54:11 PM
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Update... one more hen killed Tuesday. I went to sheriffs dept and they will still not do anything about the deputy so I am going to file a small claims suit next week. Will keep you all posted.
Farmgirl Sister #2667 |
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farmmilkmama
True Blue Farmgirl
2027 Posts
Amy
Central MN
USA
2027 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 5:07:09 PM
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Kim that is horrible! I think it is strange that they won't do anything about the deputy. I asked my husband (a deputy) who went off about how your neighbor is breaking the law and just because your neighbor a deputy doesn't mean ANYTHING. I hope something happens in small claims court. It shouldn't be so difficult to deal with, you know? :(
--* FarmMilkMama *--
Farmgirl Sister #1086
Be yourself.
Everyone else is already taken.
-Oscar Wilde
www.farmfoodmama.blogspot.com
www.thehmmmschoolingmom.blogspot.com |
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gathered herb
True Blue Farmgirl
87 Posts
Patty
Ormond Beach
florida
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 6:18:53 PM
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| TRAP!!!! I have 3 dogs... & It is my duty to keep them under control. It is so sad that people have no respect... We have a leash law here. So sorry... I wish I could help you. |
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CMac
True Blue Farmgirl
1074 Posts
Connie
Ashland City
TN
USA
1074 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 6:51:58 PM
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Sounds like my neighbors. I feel for you cause I know what it is to deal with this. As much as I hate to advocate killing a dog the 4 S's may end up being your only resort.
I'll bet they haven't been neutered either. Macho s---'s never neuter their dogs. Makes me ill.
Connie
"I have three chairs in my house: one for solitude, two for friendship, three for company."
Author: Henry David Thoreau |
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MagnoliaWhisper
True Blue Farmgirl
2817 Posts
Heather
Haysville
Kansas
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 6:58:24 PM
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WOW To me this is scary on a lot of levels. There is a scripture that says faithful in least, faithful in most. Meaning a person who makes sure to be faithful to God in even the small details, will be even more apt to be faithful to God in the larger things. But, also visa verse. People who try to get away with the small things, will be more likely to try to get away with the bigger things.
This dog law is a "smaller" law, yet this deputy is being allowed to get away with it! I would be very afraid of what BIG things they will allow him to get away with!
http://www.heathersprairie.blogspot.com |
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CMac
True Blue Farmgirl
1074 Posts
Connie
Ashland City
TN
USA
1074 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 7:09:09 PM
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Heather-Exactly what I was thinking! People who do things like that are capable of much worse. Frankly I'm afraid of our nearest neighbors for this very reason.
I feel for anyone dealing with people like that. Especially if they live so close.
Connie
"I have three chairs in my house: one for solitude, two for friendship, three for company."
Author: Henry David Thoreau |
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oldbittyhen
True Blue Farmgirl
1511 Posts
tina
quartz hill
ca
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 7:23:41 PM
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My advice is to catch the dogs, take them way out somewhere and practice the 4s, this is just so wrong on so many levels, wish I was closer, I would take care of it for you....
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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Barnyard Buddies: help...neighbors dog killed my hens. update |
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help...neighbors dog killed my hens. update
