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Here's to Your Health:  Personal Space  |
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Clare
True Blue Farmgirl
2173 Posts
NC WA State
USA
2173 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 23 2005 : 1:39:22 PM
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I hesitate to speak about this because on some level it almost feels like a spiritual puzzle of my own that I need to solve... but I am in need of some ideas in how to deal with a situation that hasn't gotten better in six years' time.
The situation is regarding another woman that I work with. She seems to have some identify-able charateristics, such as dyslexia of hand and speech. She doesn't walk places, she charges. Often times people get run over in the hallway, literally. Now I am not unsympathetic to these conditions, as I am not even sure she's aware of them, although everybody else here is. Her energy/aura is a scrambled mess. We used to have to share a closet size office space of about 6'w x 10'l. I was about to quit and find something else, when they finally let me have this space to myself and got her relocated. But that's another story.
What's the most troubling fact is that she has no personal space boundaries, and she does not respect others' personal space boundaries. Example: yesterday I asked her a computer question (I'm not as big a computer geek as I may seem!).. well she barged into my office, right up along side of me. She was standing so close that when I moved my hand on my mouse, my elbow stuck her in the BOOB!!!!!  I was literally trapped between her and the credenza on my desk. I finally said EXCUSE ME and turned sideways. She just kept on doing what she was doing, as I had abandoned my mouse at this point to turn away from her... She was oblivious.
This makes me extremely uncomfortable. Common knowledge is for normal people interaction a personal space of at least 18-20" is observed.
Any suggestions on something to say to her that is not mean, but gets my point across? Afterall, I do have to work with her on some occasions, luckily not many. Jeepers... the things that stress us out....
**** Love is the great work - though every heart is first an apprentice. - Hafiz
Set a high value on spontaneous kindness. - Samuel Johnson****
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bramble
True Blue Farmgirl
2044 Posts
2044 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2005 : 2:16:08 PM
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Clare-- You could always tell her you have a communicable disease!
Just kidding... I used to work with a man that did this and it was just wrong on oh so many levels. I finally had to tell him quietly and not in front of others ( but I did have our owner standing within hearing distance) that his friendly helpfulness was greatly appreciated but that sometimes I felt he was making me uncomfortable with his over familiarity. He apologized and told me he had never had a woman boss before and was trying to make me feel welcome since some of the other guys were not too thrilled about me being there! I think that this was a very small part of what he was trying to "accomplish"
but the message was received loud and clear and there didn't seem to be any lasting hard feelings and oh boy there could have been!
Maybe your lady just needs a little nudge in the right direction without embarrassing her. Use someone else as an example: "You know I was picking up my ( blank) from the (blank) and the attendent there made me very uncomfortable . She had no sense of personal space and she kept standing right on top of me! Have you ever had that happen to you? Doesn't it make you just feel strange?" Everyone always thinks the bad example is NOT them, but maybe that would make her think twice before she got within "boob range " again! Just be glad you aren't trying to solve the b.o. issue, that one is much harder to be discreet or tactful about!
with a happy heart |
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MeadowLark
True Blue Farmgirl
2206 Posts
USA
2206 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2005 : 2:22:26 PM
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Clare, That is a tough situation. Could your co-worker be on any kind of prescription medications? Could she possibly have adult ADHD? These kinds of people take up enormous amounts of space around them, and seem to beunaware of other's personal space boundaries. Different medications for this can also affect body movements and awareness of surroundings and societial limits to proper behavior. Have not read of any data on dyslexia causing this...but it certainly could affect how one relates to others. Americans as a whole have the largest personal space boundry of all cultures. My suggestion would be to approach this person in a non-confrontational way by inviting her for coffee or tea or any neutral type situation. Suggest to her that you respect her and value her as a co-worker...but that respect should be reciprocated in that you feel uncomfortable when anyone ( and I emphasize anyone, not just her) gets too close, that is not a family member or lover. Try to convey this in a soft, nuetral tone...smile and look in her eyes all the while thinking respect for others. I know you have this...you are a loving person...but you have rights and for mutual respect between office workers your rights should be honored as you honor hers..
Being is what it is. Jean Paul Sartre |
Edited by - MeadowLark on Aug 23 2005 2:26:03 PM |
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mdotterer
True Blue Farmgirl
78 Posts
Marlene
Pleasant Hill
CA
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2005 : 5:19:43 PM
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Ahhh. Workplace memories....
Yes, I had a supervisor with this problem. I'd step back and she'd come forward. We'd keep this dance up until I hit a wall and couldn't go any further! Try stepping closer to her and see if she moves back. Good for a laugh, if nothing else. It worked when I did it. If possible, run to another space, grab a chair and bring it back for her. Then you sit behind your desk or put some other object between you. Bramble's idea is good about the indirect approach. It might make her think.
Marlene |
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thehouseminder
True Blue Farmgirl
361 Posts
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2005 : 6:53:20 PM
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Hi Clare,
Lots of good advice here. It is possible that this lady has something like ADHD or Asperger's Syndrome. It is also a possibility that she may have had asubstance abuse problem at one point or even more likely, been raised by someone who did. When people abuse substances, they do not respect personal boundaries at all and their children grow up not knowing what a boundary is.  (Bad Grammar, Sorry)
I will tell you something personal about myself and my family. The Autism/Asperger's gene doesn't just run in my family it gallops.  The reason I mention this is that as an Asperger's Person, I cannot stand for an "unapproved person" to get closer than arms length to me. I just start to panic. It's not that I don't like people. Quite the opposite, I love people and am very sensitive ---toooo sensitive: I have very acute hearing, a sense of smell that would put a bloodhound or a pregnant woman to shame, and excruciatingly sensitive skin. I have a large vocabulary but have a hard time with verbal expression. I get over stimulated to the point of it being painful. I need to take people in small doses. I good friend comes over and i can talk the night away with them.
My nephew, who is autistic is the same way. (Oddly, when he finally spoke his first words at the age of four, they were to me. I think because I refrained from trying to handle him all the time!) SOME Asperger's Persons are the opposite, they get way too close, they say things which are unkind without thinking because truth telling is so important to them, they can't keep their mouth shut.
Anyway, a few years ago, I finally stopped clamping my mouth shut and said something to a woman who was crowding me as I wrote a check for my groceries. Honestly, why do people do this? Do they think the check will get written any faster? Yes, her boob was riding my elbow as she puffed with impatience. I turned to her and explained to her as politely and sweetly as possible that I have a mental condition which makes it virtually impossible for me to tolerate anyone touching me without permission. Boy, did she ever move fast!
That was probably a little harsh but I didn't want to end up on the evening news or institutionalized. I have sinced learned to speak up in a gentle and loving way. I would take Meadowlark's sage advice and use terms that make it clear that everyone is different and you personally need more space than some others do. (Or you could just say, "Pardon me, I have Leprosy..." per Bramble's advice OR "Honey, I have a large personal space and, unfortunately, you are in it." )
GOOD LUCK!
Lucinda
Who loves a garden still his Eden keeps, Perennial pleasures plants, and wholesome harvest reaps. ---Bronson Alcott
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lurban
True Blue Farmgirl
61 Posts
Vermont
61 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2005 : 7:54:22 PM
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| You need a portable picket fence. Just unfurl and Voila! Personal space established. |
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CelticCoyote
True Blue Farmgirl
111 Posts
Heather
Illinois
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2005 : 06:16:25 AM
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| LOL lurban! Y'know what I think might work? Sneeze on her. Often. Every time she gets near you, in fact. Don't bother to cover your mouth, just let it fly. She's *gotta* back off sooner or later. |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2005 : 08:38:22 AM
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That is so funny..the fence AND the sneeze. I have a hard time with the personal space thing too...never have liked someone that close. Nearly anyone. I am very freindly but don't like to be touched either. just wondering....Lucina...does the idea of getting a massage (that everyone else is just crazy for) make you cringe? I KNOW I couldn't handle it! I had a friend going to massage therapy school who wanted to "practice" on people and everyone was so excited to get a free massage. I had a hard time explaining to her that a massage is about the very last thing on earth I would ever want!!
Jenny in Utah
The best things in life arn't things |
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Clare
True Blue Farmgirl
2173 Posts
NC WA State
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2005 : 08:58:06 AM
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Thanks for the ideas and the humor, girls! I think next time I'll just say, "d. back up - you're crowding my space!!!" You've actually given me (pardon the expression) the balls to just be blunt and say what I need to say!
I don't mind touching at all, in fact I love it. This is just inappropriate. And I think part of the problem is since her energy is so scrambled, my own aura/energy senses this and goes bezerk to get her out of the way, or me out of her energy loop.
Interesting that you mention massage. I love to give massage- thought about actually going to a school, since there's one here in town now... and I love to receive massage. The budget never seems to cooperate when I want one though! And it's such a dicey deal.... how people perceive massage, etc. Alot of perverts out there. If it's approached as a healing technique, as it should be, then all is well.
**** Love is the great work - though every heart is first an apprentice. - Hafiz
Set a high value on spontaneous kindness. - Samuel Johnson****
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2005 : 09:59:35 AM
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I think massage is great as a healing thing and I wish I could handle it...just me and my quirks.
Jenny in Utah
The best things in life arn't things |
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thehouseminder
True Blue Farmgirl
361 Posts
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2005 : 10:10:34 AM
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HEE hee! Congratulations on the grande cojones, Clare . There is a reason the hairs on the back of your neck go up. Some touching is just WRONG.
I love the sneezing idea and the fence too! Maybe we could all be like Les Nessman on "WKRP in Cincinnati" and mark off our territory with duct tape. 
You won't believe this, Aunt Jenny, but I get a massage every two weeks. My massage therapist is this little, tiny lady who is a minister's wife. She is very powerful and very loving. I first met her when I was having trouble recovering from pneumonia. Some friends arranged for me to see her and I was too weak and weary to freak out. My mother on the other hand would run screaming. She cannot understand how anyone could get a massage. I understand and respect her feelings. We all have our limits. For me, I can't stand bright lights or loud noises (unless I'm the one makin' 'em). And Christmas Shopping in crowds? Just Shoot ME!
Lucinda
Who loves a garden still his Eden keeps, Perennial pleasures plants, and wholesome harvest reaps. ---Bronson Alcott
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bramble
True Blue Farmgirl
2044 Posts
2044 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2005 : 10:40:30 AM
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I am a hugger and will give you an affectionate tap or swat on occasion but never had anybody say to me "Whoa! Back it up Baby!",
she sounds like a tornado! Is she very computer obsessed? I have noticed some of my son's friends who spend the whole summer playing video games seem to loose any sense of their surroundings or how they are impacting them. Loud, wild, off kilter and lacking coordination they careen through my house after a summer spent with "the other parent". Darn and just when I had them trained( and they aren't my kids!) Does this woman have a personal life? She may very well spend all her time "communicating" with screens and lacks those "special skills" needed for the real world. Or then again ...she just might be a kook!Either way...good luck!
with a happy heart |
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LJRphoto
True Blue Farmgirl
760 Posts
Laura
Hickory Corners
MI
USA
760 Posts |
Posted - Aug 25 2005 : 7:25:47 PM
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Some people are just abrasive and oblivious. Be blunt without being out and out mean. I don't think that there is anything wrong with insisting someone get out of your personal space. I could go on a whole tirade about my feelings on other's seeming entitlement to touch, but it would take up way too much space.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." -Mark Twain |
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crazymoose
Farmgirl in Training
38 Posts
Caryn
Auburn
WA
38 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2005 : 11:05:26 AM
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| You need to tell her, she is standing too close. You'll probably have to remind her a few times too. My cousin has ADD and Asperger and doesn't think of personal space, plus his mom grew up in NY (she'll stand close to anyone) and the "personal bubble" is different on the east and west coast. I have Aspergers and I have to tell people that they are too close for comfort, they'll learn overtime. |
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blanket of stars
True Blue Farmgirl
51 Posts
Kat
Hancock
NH
51 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2005 : 6:10:55 PM
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| I think some people just don't get it. As you said, her energy is whizzing and she probably isn't aware of what she's doing. You could always cringe and yell "Back! Back!". I had a similar problem with a neighbor invading my garden space constantly . As someone who HATES confrontation, I finally exploded. There was silence for a few days, and then an email apology. And she's been respectful ever since. |
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sqrl
True Blue Farmgirl
605 Posts
Melissa
Northern California
USA
605 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2005 : 09:17:47 AM
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Well I have to say that I don't beieve it had anything to do with dyslexia or ADHD only because of personal experience. I am dyslexic, and it only affects the way you see things and understand them not the way you act unless someone is treating you badly because they think your dumb or something, but thats not the case here. And ADHD, well my husband has Toretts Syndrome ( we're mixing up a great gene pool, aren't we) This "syndrome" is what they call a "spectum" whcih means It encompasses a whole a lot things like ADHD. Anyway I don't want to get into a lengthly discussion about nerological disorders here. Though it could be because she has a lot of energy and can't control it, but them me tell ya my husbands energy fills the entire room when he enters it and it's never invasive. SO I think it has a lot to do with peoples awareness to the world around them, many people just don't think about how they affect people, they seem to live in a bubble. But what I would do (and I'm a kind of forward kind of person, so this may not work for everyone) is the next time she gets that close I would say " Please (blank) I need some place to think, can you give a little room to work". You say this in a very nice way. It works for me, because like I said I'm dyslexic and not all people have patience with me, I say " I'm sorry, and you repeat that or I'm a little dyslexic give me a second" And most people respect it. Some people are just so unaware of whats going on around them. You just need to (gently) shake them up a little by being direct with people. I have found that I gain a lot of respect from people when I just tell them how it is. This also will get me in trouble at times, which why you have to " know when hold and know when to walk away". And away you'll feel a lot better after you say something. This is just what I would do.
Blessed Be
www.sqrlbee.com www.sisterhood.sqrlbee.com
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dg7954
True Blue Farmgirl
129 Posts
Diane
Doylestown
pa
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2005 : 7:18:11 PM
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| Clare, I have always found that my best means of expression is through humor. Instead of sitting her down (or her sitting on you) and stating the problem, maybe what would work is to casually say, "I like you, but you're on top of me. I don't like you that much." Whether she has some sort of physical dysfunction or she is just clueless, I have found that a casual but direct message attached to a good laugh usually gets the job done. |
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Here's to Your Health: Personal Space |
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Personal Space
