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Farm Kitchen:  can we talk about bread baking?  |
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sqrl
True Blue Farmgirl
605 Posts
Melissa
Northern California
USA
605 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 12:09:58 PM
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I understand it takes years to finally make good bread. I like to ask a lot of questions when I'm learning something. I've been baking bread now for a couple of years on and off. We started out making sour dough with a wild yeast starter and that is really hard to work with and you don't find many recipes that work with wild yeast. Now after a little while of not baking I've starting up again. I bake every weekend, always trying something a little different. This weekend I use the mixer to knead the dough and the dough came out beautiful but my problem is really the rising. I get a good first rising in the bowl. But when I shape it and get it into the oven it doesn't rise much. I get a pretty dense bread, I mostly make buns. It's not too bad but I'm striving for a nice fluffy whole wheat bread.
Any suggestions?
Blessed Be
www.sqrlbee.com |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 12:19:37 PM
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add about 1/4 cup of gluten flour to your batch of bread.(available at most grocery stores near the yeast) I make a 3 loaf batch and this is plenty..it really helps it rise up and be softer. Good luck!
Jenny in Utah
The best things in life arn't things! |
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DaisyFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
1646 Posts
Diane
Victoria
BC
Canada
1646 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 1:10:36 PM
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Similar to Jenny's idea, I add about 1 tbsp of wheat gluten per 2 loaves of bread. But what I really find works to lighten up my bread is 2 tbsps of lemon juice per 2 loaves of bread. It is supposed to "condition" the flour...don't know about that, but it sure has worked for me.
Kind regards from Vanc. Island.
Diane from Daisy Farm
Livin La Vida Loca |
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sleepless reader
True Blue Farmgirl
1022 Posts
CA
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 1:31:37 PM
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I add lemon juice too. Up to 5Tbps in the recipe that uses about 10 cups flour. Adding the lemon, I can use all whole wheat flour (not half white/half wheat). Makes the loaves light and they seem to stay better (no mold).
Good luck!
Sharon |
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therusticcottage
True Blue Farmgirl
4439 Posts
Kay
Vancouver
WA
USA
4439 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 4:04:49 PM
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Please share your bread recipes!!! I haven't baked bread forever but have been wanting to do so. I have a recipe in my 1970's cookbook but I don't really care for it. And my loaves always seem to be dense too.
Kay - Living in Beautiful Washington State
North Clark County Farmgirls and
Sisterhood of the Traveling Art |
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sqrl
True Blue Farmgirl
605 Posts
Melissa
Northern California
USA
605 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 4:42:46 PM
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Thanks I'm definitely going to try lemon juice, sounds good. I too would love to hear about your recipes. I'm making everything up as I go, as usual.I would love to attend a bread baking workshop or intern at a bakery. I think that would the best way to make good bread. But I'll keep trying in the meantime. Thanks, once again I knew my fellow farmgirls would have advice for me.
Blessed Be
www.sqrlbee.com |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 8:32:27 PM
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my bread recipe..such as it is:
(makes three regular size loaves)
2 Tbsp active dry yeast dissolved in
2 1/2 cups lukewarm water
1 Tbsp salt
1/2 cup melted butter cooled to room temp. (or oil if you would rather)
1/2 cup honey (or you can substitute mollasses or real maple syrup for a diff. taste)
approx 6 cups flour ( grind my own wheat and use at least 1/2 fresh wheat flour and the rest white or oat flour, a handful of corn meal, oat bran or wheat bran...whatever you like, I use the oat bran or oatmeal alot.
1/4 cup gluten flour
put yeast and lukewarm water in large mixing bowl and wait for it to proof (bubble) and then add the butter and honey and the salt. Mix well..then gradually add about 3 cups of the flour and beat well.
Gradually add more flour and knead when it is stiff enough ...knead until it is smooth and not sticky and then let rise until double (about an hour) in a buttered bowl covered with a tea towell. Then punch down...shape into loaves or rolls and let rise again in buttered pans for about 30 min. I don't preheat my oven, but put them in and turn it on to 350..rises a little more as it preheats..and then bake about 20 min and check ..done when golden brown and sounds hollow when you tap loaf on top. It will smell great about the time it is done.
Jenny in Utah
The best things in life arn't things! |
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therusticcottage
True Blue Farmgirl
4439 Posts
Kay
Vancouver
WA
USA
4439 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 9:00:25 PM
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Oh geez Jenny!!! You grind your own wheat?? My goodness is there anything you can't do? I'm impressed! Thanks for sharing the recipe. I'm glad to see it's sweetened with honey.
Kay - Living in Beautiful Washington State
North Clark County Farmgirls and
Sisterhood of the Traveling Art |
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mollymae
True Blue Farmgirl
694 Posts
Molly
Visalia
California
USA
694 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 9:03:19 PM
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One of the best smells in the world is bread fresh from the oven....
Cead Mile Failte,
Molly
"If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not live in vain. If I can ease one life the Aching or cool one pain, or help one fainting robin unto his nest again, I shall not live in vain" ~Emily Dickinson
**When life throws scraps your way ~ Make a Quilt!**
Sisterhood of the Traveling Art |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 9:28:07 PM
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Hello Ladies!
Does using wheat flour really make that much of a difference? I unfortunatly have been buying the unbleached white flour from the store due to finances. I have never had a problem with my breads.
To me...Bread making is easy and usually a joyful task. It is amazing to me how many people I run into that say "you make your own bread from scratch? I tried that once and it just never did work" or how many people use bread machines! (There is something wierd to me about canister shaped loaves...)
Ciao
Alee |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 9:41:29 PM
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I have never wanted a bread machine either...most of my relatives have one and swear by them. I guess if that is the only way you would make bread it is better than storebought.
Oh my gosh yes...freshly ground wheat makes alot of difference in taste!! I used a hand grinder for years and years and only did half fresh ground to 1/2 unbleached store flour and then a neighbor gave me her old (in perfectly good shape but she "upgraded") whisper mill electric grinder and now I use more like at least 3/4 freshly ground whole wheat. You really do need the gluten flour with the heavier whole wheat loaves, but..yum..what a difference and so much better for you too! I am going to try the lemon juice trick too ...sounds tasty and I hope that works as well for me too! I love to bake and try new things!!
Jenny in Utah
The best things in life arn't things! |
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DaisyFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
1646 Posts
Diane
Victoria
BC
Canada
1646 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 9:54:55 PM
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Jenny how do you effectively sift your freshly ground flour? I too grind different grains (always wanting to have variety), but find that the bread can get terribly heavy.
Diane
Live a good and honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time. |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2005 : 10:20:23 PM
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You really have to set the grinder for a fine grind. When I hand grind I have to put it through sieve and get out the coarser stuff..which I cook as hot cereal..yum! With the electric grinder it is easy to get it fine enough. It will even grind popcorn into a fine corn flour! The gluten flour helps so much!!
Jenny in Utah
The best things in life arn't things! |
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Kim
True Blue Farmgirl
146 Posts
Kim
Pflugerville
Texas
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2005 : 08:09:05 AM
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Aunt Jenny, Can I come stay with you and learn all your tricks!!!!??? :)
farmgirl@heart
Be at peace with yourself and the rest will follow |
Edited by - Kim on Jul 16 2005 08:09:32 AM |
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greyghost
True Blue Farmgirl
650 Posts
Lynn
Summerville
Georgia
USA
650 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2005 : 08:22:02 AM
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I'm with Kim. Aunt Jenny, can we come stay with you and learn all your tricks?
I bake my own white bread, sometimes an Italian bread with fresh herbs and sun-dried tomatoes in it, an Asiago cheese bread (yeah, we like Italian). I use the cheap unbleached flour or sometimes I mix it half & half with whole wheat flour. Anytime I've made bread with whole wheat it comes out HEAVY.
I just found a simple white bread recipe and stick with it for the base for my experiments and I haven't had much trouble. I find kneading the bread to be very therapeutic. I discovered you can treat it gently but firmly, or you can punch it and get out some frustration... and the bread still turns out great. :) I'll be happy to post the recipe - I know it all by heart by now but it's been four months since I had a kitchen and I'm afraid I'll miss something if I type it out here. The recipe, like the rest of my belongings, is in storage. |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2005 : 10:09:15 AM
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boy, Asiago cheese bread sounds so good!!!!!!!
You are all welcome to come for a bread baking slumber party!!!
Jenny in Utah
The best things in life arn't things! |
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Kim
True Blue Farmgirl
146 Posts
Kim
Pflugerville
Texas
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2005 : 10:31:55 AM
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Oh, Panera makes an asiago cheese bread and bagels. Yours sounds so much better Lynn!
farmgirl@heart
Be at peace with yourself and the rest will follow |
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greyghost
True Blue Farmgirl
650 Posts
Lynn
Summerville
Georgia
USA
650 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2005 : 7:32:26 PM
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| I guess I had better perfect that asiago bread recipe, eh? It's close to how I want it, but I'm still tinkering. When I get it just so, we can have that bread-baking party? :) |
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JoyIowa
True Blue Farmgirl
273 Posts
Joy
273 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2005 : 7:54:42 PM
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Alee,
If finances are a problem, try to find a restaurant supply house that has a cash and carry. They let little guys in too. I get 50# of 100% WW flour for just under $10. Lots better than 4# for 2.98 at the grocery store. It always has a mill date and the place I go, keeps it in the freezer! I split with my brother and sister, so 50# lasts us about 3 weeks. I don't even put it in the fridge except in the ugly heat of winter.
Everyone else:
My recipe for WW bread:
(This is somewhat heavier than boughten white bread, but much less dense than most ww.)
In a LG bowl combine
2 1/2 cups room temp milk or water (water makes the loaf a bit crummy, but tastes the same for less $)
4 t. yeast,
2 T honey,
2T oil (canola, safflower, olive[esp good when adding basil, oregano, and thyme to the liquids]whatever is handy)
1 t. sea salt or raw salt
Mix completely with a big whisk.
Add two cups ww flour and whisk again for about 2 minutes.
Let this set until bubbly. (about 10 minutes)
On your kneading surface dump 5 more cups of ww flour. Make a well in the center. Take your bench scraper in one hand. (AKA piece of plastic cut from a 5 qt pail cover roughly in the shape of a kidney table.)
Pour the mixture out into the middle of the pile of flour and try to contain it with the bench scraper, by lifting flour from the edges to the center of the liquid. (Same motion as folding in egg whites.)
Repeat this until the dough is able to be handled. Then knead for about 8-10 minutes until the dough is satiny and smooth. (It will still be just a little sticky.) Lay it back down on the flour and cover with a clean dishtowel. Take another small towel and soak it with HOT water. Wring to almost dry and lay around the dough. Let rise about an hour. (Although in this heat and humidity, mine has been raising in about 15 minutes!) Press down. Shape, raise again and bake 425 for about 25 minutes. Enjoy!
I think letting the dough form its own gluten by whisking and leaving it to sit a bit before weighting it down combine to make a lighter loaf. Personally, bring on the heavy, hearty, earthy stuff for me. However at my house I am outnumbered. Oh well, at least they're eating vegetarian 3 days a week now!
Peace,
Joy
Have a great day everyone.
To live without farm life is merely existing, to live with farm life is living life to it very last experience. |
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ByHzGrace
True Blue Farmgirl
348 Posts
348 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2005 : 7:34:51 PM
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I'm Ellen and I'm a breadaholic!
Gets easier with every confession! Love finding more like me and the chatter!One of my fondest comfort foods came from my Granny. It is sliced juicy red ripe tomatoes slathered with gobs of mayo on homemade white bread.
My Granny’s perfect white bread
1 package of yeast softened in ¼ cup of warm water with a pinch of sugar. Combine 2 cups of scalded hot milk with 3 Tablespoons of sugar, 2 teaspoons of salt, and 3 tablespoons of butter.Cool to lukewarm. Stir in 2 cups of sifted flour. Add yeast/water mixture and continue mixing. Add 4 more cups of sifted flour one cup at a time. Transfer the dough to a greased bowl.Cover with a towel and leave in warm spot for about an hour until dough doubles. Punch down and knead out on a floured surface until smooth about 1 minute.Don’t over do this kneading. Cut dough into 2 portions and shape into loaves. Place in buttered loaf pans.Cover again to rise until double about 45 minutes. If you wait too long the bread will sink and be hard.Bake in a 400degree oven for about 20 minutes. Remove from oven and when bread has cooled a little remove from pans and cool on wire racks. MMMMM enjoy |
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Jana
True Blue Farmgirl
482 Posts
Jana
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
USA
482 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2005 : 8:25:37 PM
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I'd rise it in the pan a second time before baking. Once in the oven you can't expect much.
Jana |
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Julia
True Blue Farmgirl
1949 Posts
Julia
Shelton
WA
USA
1949 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2005 : 9:10:59 PM
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Melissa,check out the book "Nancy Silverton's Bread's from the La Brea Bakery". She uses sourdough starter in all her breads and the recipes I have tried are wonderful.
Never heard of the lemon juice before, can't wait to try it.
A friend just bought a grinder and I get to use it. Have done wheat, rice and oatmeal. It is so great. I was given gallon size cans of wheat berries from someone who left the Mormon church and was getting rid of their food stock pile. I won't need to by wheat flour for a while.
There is a silly quote I like about bread making that is very true -
" The bread in de oven, match the spirit in de cook. If one don't rise de other won't either."
"The gloom of the world is but a shadow; behind it, yet within our reach is joy. Take joy!" Fr.Giovanni |
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junebug
True Blue Farmgirl
2421 Posts
Sue
West Plains,
Mo.
USA
2421 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2005 : 12:22:00 PM
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Oh my!!!! Now you got me wanting to bake some bread......I'm a bread baker too, love to try new and different recipes. I buy my flours from the health food store where I can get it cheaper than the store, only 89 cents a pound for whole wheat, and you can buy as much or as little. Altitude has alot to do with bread baking or you could of just got ahold of some old flour. Check out a couple of my favorite sites for bread baking. Won't be long, fall and winter are my bread baking seasons....Enjoy!
Sisterhood of the Traveling Art and Apron...
I'm not 40 something, I'm 39.95 plus shipping and handling! |
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junebug
True Blue Farmgirl
2421 Posts
Sue
West Plains,
Mo.
USA
2421 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2005 : 12:23:15 PM
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Forgot the links, sorry, thinking about the bread I guess???
www.breadrecipe.com
www.breadnet.net
I'm not 40 something, I'm 39.95 plus shipping and handling! |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2005 : 04:32:21 AM
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sqrl, it doesn't have to take years to learn to make good bread. It helps, because you develop the judgment through experience. But it doesn't have to be that way.
A book that explains all the whys and options and the science behind it is "Bernard Clayton's Book of Breads," an excellent bread book that was my teacher and resource for many years. The breads are delicious, and the instruction is outstanding.
As for your denser breads right now, after baking year round for almost thirty years, I can tell you that home baked bread is always denser in the summer than in the winter. Has something to do with the humidity, I guess. Is your house air conditioned? I've never had air conditioning, and my breads are always this way in the summer. Once the cooler weather comes, the breads get lighter and rise better again.
For these denser breads, I decided to not fight it. I'd add a bit of potato flour (about a quarter cup) to my regular recipe, slice it thin, and make super crunchy delicious toast. |
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prairiemaid
True Blue Farmgirl
200 Posts
Margret
Canada
200 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2005 : 06:20:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sqrl
I get a good first rising in the bowl. But when I shape it and get it into the oven it doesn't rise much. I get a pretty dense bread, I mostly make buns.
Hi sqrl, sorry for the quote but by your wording I was wondering if you were allowing your buns to rise on the counter before you put them in the oven to bake?
I don't think it takes years to make good bread either. I guess it depends how often you attempt to make bread, lol. Once you understand the basics with yeast and learn how it should feel, it's pretty easy. I'd say find a good basic recipe, get good at that then try some new or fancy recipes. |
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Farm Kitchen: can we talk about bread baking? |
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can we talk about bread baking?
