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Family Matters:  2nd grade discipline...  |
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jinia
True Blue Farmgirl
152 Posts
jinia
mo
USA
152 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 06:12:53 AM
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To make a long story um...not as long:
DS 7 is getting in trouble for talking in class (not backtalking - calling out answers or just plain socializing) for which he has to move his card. The punishments are a warning, missing 1, 5, 10 minutes of recess, to a call home. Two weeks ago I found out that when he missed 10 minutes on several occassions he had to stand on the concrete playground on a crack in full sun (2:40 in the afternoon) for that time. I found this out after he had to lie down when he got home one day because he was sick. I asked him why did he think he was sick and he said "It was hot when I was standing on the crack and they wouldn't let me get a drink." Once I finally figured it out I spoke to the vice principal and she agreed it was inappropriate and said that kids in timeout could stand under a tree. Found out that it happened again after the vice principal spoke with the second grade "team" so I will be at the school tomorrow. I was wondering how 2nd graders are punished elsewhere? Punishing with the elements can't be the norm right? My peditrician said if I did this child protective services would be called. Not really enjoying this school year.... |
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catscharm74
True Blue Farmgirl
4687 Posts
Heather
Texas
USA
4687 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 06:19:00 AM
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I am so sorry Jinia,,,what has this world come too??? I would keep on top of it and not let it slip. A time out is acceptable but not in the hot sun with no drink.
Heather
http://somewheredownintexas-heather.blogspot.com |
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ranchmama
True Blue Farmgirl
360 Posts
Elise
Rosebud
MT
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 07:27:44 AM
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Wow, sounds pretty harsh. Hope you can talk to the 'team' ~~ What is that by the way? don't we have teachers anymore?~~ Anyway.. I have a 2nd grader who likes to talk and speak up in class. He sounds the same as your son, not being disruptive, just likes to be noticed and heard. We go to a small school, he has 6 in his class so I think the teacher handles it when there is a problem. He usually settles down. She has had to talk with me about it and we just talk to our son about paying attention and being respectful and all.
But, standing in the sun for punishment...? seems pretty harsh. Why not have them stay in from recess with a few extra worksheets or something constructive to do, not stand in time out. He's not a toddler anymore.
I hope you can get this resolved, good luck and hugs!
Elise
Every Child Deserves Our Love &
A Bear of Their Own
http://ATeddyForKeeps.org
http://ranchmama.blogspot.com/ |
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FebruaryViolet
True Blue Farmgirl
4810 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4810 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 07:36:12 AM
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I guess I'd have a talk with the teachers....sounds like it's just a bad idea, but maybe not intentionally punishing with the elements? I'm in no way defending, just thinking that they're NOT thinking...
It's been a long time since I was in second grade, but we missed ALL of recess (after the "third strike--yuuuuur out!" speech, and had to sit inside with a teacher from another classroom. The teachers took turns. Or, we had to stand with our noses in a circle drawn rather high on the chalkboard in front of the whole class. That was pretty silly (and also painful).
Musings from our family in the Bluegrass http://sweetvioletmae.blogspot.com/ |
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MagnoliaWhisper
True Blue Farmgirl
2817 Posts
Heather
Haysville
Kansas
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 08:03:11 AM
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WOW......I would not be happy.
If you going doesn't help this time, you need to find a student avocate, I can't remember what they are officially called, but there is people that will go to the school with you, in your child's behalf, and have a lot of clout to get things to change-free of charge to you. I know that's what my mom had to do for me in first grade, when things were crossing the line into abuse (let's say this, the teacher beat one student's head against the chalk board, to make him unconscience). After my mom got her she was able to get my teachers changed.
Also, this advocate suggested that my mom volunteer to be a teachers aide, in Kansas at the time, it was law, that if a parent volunteered to be a teachers aid in their own child's class, they could NOT be denied. And the teacher had to accept it.
Another thing since this is only recess, is it the teachers doing this?
Because, I don't know how things are today, but when I was in school we had no teachers on the playground, they went in the school and locked the doors, we weren't allowed inside, and could not if we tried. After a few kidknappings, cause of course preditators caught on there was a bunch of young children (kindergarten, 1st graders, etc) outside by themselves not allowed in, they had 20 to 30 minutes to take any kid they wanted. Any way, after that happened a few times, and our schools teachers still refused to be outside with us. Parents and grandparents started volunteering to be playground aides. Any way......these were not official school people, and they did discipline us any way they thought they wanted to.
So it could be that. IF not, if it is teachers, again with my first suggestion, volunteer to be a playground aide and go during recess and see what you can do.
http://www.heathersprairie.blogspot.com |
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl
4813 Posts
Julie
Russell
AR
USA
4813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 08:07:05 AM
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Hi Jinia. I am a teacher at a public school and I used to teach second grade. In our school we have a similar behavior/discipline arrangement except students have sheets that teachers sign and send home so the parents know what is going on. The first signing is usually just a warning. If a child gets the sheet signed a second or third time it is usually loss of recess and a 4th time in a week usually results in a visit with the principle. At my school students missing recess hacve to stand along the fence until their time is up. We do not really have ANY shaded areas on our playground so everyone is in the sun - even when it is hot. Our schools policy is not to allow students inside DURING recess to get drinks because then they are unsupervised. Our recess is only 10 minutes long. All students are allowed to get drinks when they come in - regardless of whether they were in trouble or not.
I really dont think your childs teacher thought "HAHA I'm gonna make you stand in the hot sun. that'll teach you." Likely that is where kids have ALWAYS stood. If there is a crack it just helps give the kids a visual. The teacher may say "You need to watch your behavior or you will have to stand on the crack during recess." I have to agree with Jonnie and say they likely just DIDNT THINK. I dont think they are "punishing with the elements" as you said.
My advice, call the school as set up an appointment with the teacher and go in and discuss it calmly with an open mind. Most people who teach arent out to get kids although many parents treat us like we are. HAve an idea of some possible alternative punishments and discuss how you can help with you DS blurting out in class. No one likes to feel attacked and things will go much smoother for you, your child and the teacher if you address it in a kind and calm manner!
Good luck! I know we all hate to feel like our child is being treated wrong! I'm sure it is just a misunderstanding.
Farmgirl Sister #17
Blog
www.willowtreecreek.wordpress.com
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1badmamawolf
True Blue Farmgirl
2199 Posts
Teresa
"Bent Fence Farms"
Ca
USA
2199 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 09:48:26 AM
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My daughter is a school teacher, I asked her about this , and she said if a teacher did that where she worked, they probally would be fired, it would be considered criminal. It is dangerous for anyone to be forced to stand in the hot sun for any length of time, and without water??? The heat here where I live can be up to 110 degrees. Anyone, and I do mean anyone who did that to one of mine would be looking for a job. If a child is being that un-ruly, a call to the parents should have happened immediatly. There is absolutly no excuse for what those teachers did to that child, and if he was just being social or answering out of turn, that is wrong, but, its not a crime for that kind of punishment "ever" !!!
"Treat the earth well, it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" |
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nubidane
True Blue Farmgirl
2875 Posts
Lisa
Georgetown
OH
2875 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 3:25:03 PM
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| I don't think 10 minutes outside is a bad thing. We only got a drink after recess & we had like 5 seconds to drink before we were scooted along. I don't remember anyone ever complaining. We ran & jumped & played for 40+ minutes without water. Also school had no AC. We all turned out fine. Also swats were administered & I never got one, because just the thought kept me straight. I feel for teachers today; I have several friends that are teachers & they cannot do anything anymore without getting in trouble. |
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jinia
True Blue Farmgirl
152 Posts
jinia
mo
USA
152 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2009 : 3:37:19 PM
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| Thanks for your replies and they really reflect what I think...all of them thats the problem. Kaden answers outloud to questions and talks when he shouldn't - I get that - I get he needs to stop. I really don't coddle him. I just don't think that punishment is or is going to work. Isn't that the reason to give consquences? - to change bad behaviour? Kaden is going to always do this even though so I don't want him to miss an average of 10 minutes of 15 minute recess 3 times a week. I went to the school and they will have the kids stand in the shade when it is over 80 degrees. I will prob have Kaden screened for ADHD but I can not see using medication. He is the happiest kid in the world never ever disrespectful never aggressive never hateful but he does have poor impulse control and obviously he talks when he shouldn't. I guess if school can't handle the talking I will homeschool. Considered it before but before this year i felt he was getting a good education in a good school. The second grade teachers, the monitors are the second grade team. Thanks for the input... |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22937 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22937 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2009 : 3:49:54 PM
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Jinia- I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the ADHD (just my opinion) but a label is so hard to shake and the US labels more kids as ADHD than any other country in the world. I have felt for a VERY long time that somewhere a long the line it because one of those things that doctors diagnose because they think that is what the parents are expecting. Again this is just my opinion and I know there are lots of really excellent doctors out there that do all the rigorous tests that are needed to really diagnose a true ADHD.
Anyway I just wanted to say that I was very talkative and vivacious as a kid. (Can you tell? Look at how many posts I have on the forum! LOL) I got in trouble for talking in class quite often. My teachers just would say "Alyssa- it's not your turn right now" or "Alyssa you need to raise your hand" or "Alyssa you need to give someone else a turn". It always made me a bit embarassed but my brain was just operating so fast! I could tell that Suzy over there didn't know that answer so I wanted to help her out or get to the next question or whatever.
So I would look in to ways that really connect with your son to try and get that point across both at home and in the school. Does he interupt and blurt out at home? Can a reward system of Stickers or special "award cards" help. I got a "Quiet as a Mouse" card once at school when I hadn't interupted or spoke out of turn for something like a week and I was SO proud of that. It really made me be more determined to be even better about speaking in class.
Just a few ideas. Maybe you could have a conference with the teacher and see if she has any ideas other than the Time out (Which isn't immediate enough to really have an effect on speakout of turn in my experience).
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.awarmheart.com
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
Put your pin on the farmgirl map! www.farmgirlmap.blogspot.com |
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jinia
True Blue Farmgirl
152 Posts
jinia
mo
USA
152 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2009 : 4:26:45 PM
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[Alee, I have to say I agree with the ADHD being over diagnosis. Kaden does interrupt, very implusive, and never still. Since he is an only kid I have no troubles with him at home. I wouldn't even want the diagnosis except it might help in school.
We do a reward chart at home. If he gets three stickers that week(which his teacher gives each day in there planner) he will he get to pick a movie for a movie night - including his favorite popcorn with good parmsean cheese. In two weeks we are raising the bar with requiring 4 stickers. We are trying to work with the school in whatever way we can. I have had a Parent teacher confrence after two weeks of school. Kaden only got two stickers the two weeks. I had requested the confrence and got no reply so I spoke to the vice principal about the playground (wasn't even sure intially who I should talk to anyway over that). I have to say that  that I don't like his teacher. The second grade team told the speech pathologist that because of the NO Child Left Behind requirements the second grade kids could no longer have there 35 minutes speech class that is mandated by his IEP - now they will have 20 minutes only with a larger class. Sorry I am rambling...guess you can tell I am not loving it.....I will say we are very careful to never say anything negative about school or his teacher when Kaden is even home. |
Edited by - jinia on Sep 26 2009 4:29:32 PM |
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MagnoliaWhisper
True Blue Farmgirl
2817 Posts
Heather
Haysville
Kansas
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2009 : 5:46:35 PM
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I have been wanting to say something for a little bit, but didn't want to start a debate, or argument. But, I still feel it needs to be said.
Children, are very sensitive to heat. Much more then adults. I know in general people think, because children are children they are some how tougher then adults, but in reality when it comes to heat they are much more sensitive.
When I was in second grade, I was at a outdoor mall with my father most the day. We were supposed to go swimming afterwards. But, by that time I was feeling sick, so I told my dad, no I wanted to just go home. (I had NEVER said this before about swimming!). Any way we went home, I fell asleep on the couch, and they could not wake me up! Literally.....they could not get me to wake up. They took me to the ER (even though dad is a RN and my step mother is a Dr.) They had taken my stats and every thing, and I had a very very high temp. And very low bp. They still could not get me to wake, so they took me to the ER. I had suffered a heat stroke. Today nearly 30 years later, I still have problems with being in the heat. I get nauseated and sick. And I read in the ER one hot summer, once you have it once, you are more likely to get it again. Well, after once I've never been able to bear the heat......so no chance of me getting it a second time-I avoid heat and hot places like the plague.
But, I could of died.
So saying oh we all went through the heat and were fine....is not exactly accurate.
http://www.heathersprairie.blogspot.com |
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MagnoliaWhisper
True Blue Farmgirl
2817 Posts
Heather
Haysville
Kansas
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2009 : 5:49:24 PM
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PS I was asleep for 3 days! From that heat stroke. I remember vaguely them trying to wake me.....once in a while, but I couldn't get myself to wake up. And they for sure couldn't get me to wake up.
http://www.heathersprairie.blogspot.com |
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piddlin sweetie
Farmgirl in Training
46 Posts
Vickie
Kentucky
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2009 : 08:22:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jinia
To make a long story um...not as long:
DS 7 is getting in trouble for talking in class (not backtalking - calling out answers or just plain socializing) for which he has to move his card. The punishments are a warning, missing 1, 5, 10 minutes of recess, to a call home. Two weeks ago I found out that when he missed 10 minutes on several occassions he had to stand on the concrete playground on a crack in full sun (2:40 in the afternoon) for that time. I found this out after he had to lie down when he got home one day because he was sick. I asked him why did he think he was sick and he said "It was hot when I was standing on the crack and they wouldn't let me get a drink." Once I finally figured it out I spoke to the vice principal and she agreed it was inappropriate and said that kids in timeout could stand under a tree. Found out that it happened again after the vice principal spoke with the second grade "team" so I will be at the school tomorrow. I was wondering how 2nd graders are punished elsewhere? Punishing with the elements can't be the norm right? My peditrician said if I did this child protective services would be called. Not really enjoying this school year....
Plain and simple.. NO school should be using PUNISHMENT. In my opinion that is exactly what that is.. Im thinking too that IF this is a normal practice then ALL parents should have been notified that this was on their list of what happens to your child when they misbehave. And Im surprised the Principal wasnt aware this was a practice?
As for the mention of ADHD. Have your read over all of the symptoms to see if he fits a majority of them? I would also like to mention that although there are some "bogus" diagnosis out there.. its not generally a given "just because" the parents want it.. I can assure anyone that does NOT have a child with add/adhd that we parents (who DO have an ADHD child) we sure do not want our children diagnosed with it... This is just being un educated about ADHD. Also, there is a reason of WHY so many children with in a certain age group has this.. It could be many possible reasons from their kid shots, to additives in foods now days, etc etc etc.. we really dont know.
Having an ADHD child is difficult and its hard. As for being LABLELED well, its not a bad thing plus it would not be considered LABELED if more people would take the time to understand it...To us my son who happens to be a ADHD kid is not a death sentence.. and we dont considerate it a disability or what not.. its just an extra CHALLENGE we were given and there are LAWS that Schools must abide by in educating kids and with a ADHD diagnosis it gives you a tool to get them extra help in school so that they can continue and thive to the best of their ability.. that is where your IEP and 504 plans come into play.. and in some cases are live savers for protecting kids.
Have you tried "pretending" to be in class and giving your son a VISUAL of how to "raise his hand", be quiet, situations when their is NO talking,etc.... that might help him understand when is a good and bad time to talk..
If I can be of help please pm me as I have dealt with Schools,ADHD, and all that goes with it.. the good and the bad... we chose to homeschool for the fact that the Schools in our area are NOT willing to HELP and my child and his education is more worthy of their ignorance..
sorry so long! |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22937 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22937 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2009 : 08:50:32 AM
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Vickie- By no means was I trying to belittle the very true challenges of a parent with a child that truly has ADD or ADHD, and I am very sorry if it came out that way.
I have read several articles when I was doing a research paper (granted this was a few years ago) where something like 25% of school referred doctors diagnosed children as having ADD or ADHD because that is what the school and/or the parents had already stated "We know he has this so we just need you to confirm it". That scares me. It think more effort should be put into the diagnosis than that.
What I meant by a label is just that it can change how the child thinks about himself/herself and how some teachers (not the better teachers I am sure) treat them, and if a true diagnosis wasn't made by a doctor it could be something else entirely and yet that idea might always be in the child's head. I guess coming from my own experience I was insecure especially going through puberty and I would always question myself when I read something and wonder "Do I have XYZ (ADHD, OCD etc)" And if I had already been told I had something and then told it was a mistake or something else- I would always wonder what was right. I guess I am having a hard time articulating my thoughts. I guess I worry that with so much ignorance out there about many mostly benign conditions, the confusion/doubt/frustration that can be caused by being treated as "other" is something to be taken into consideration?
But like you said if your child truly does have one of those conditions- it's not a death sentence by far, and the laws and aids to help are starting to catch up to this very real need.
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.awarmheart.com
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
Put your pin on the farmgirl map! www.farmgirlmap.blogspot.com |
Edited by - Alee on Sep 27 2009 08:55:08 AM |
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jinia
True Blue Farmgirl
152 Posts
jinia
mo
USA
152 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2009 : 6:11:18 PM
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Vicki,
He does and he doesn't fit the standard stuff I found. I read about an ADHD impulsivity (sp?) that sounds a lot like DS. Our pediatrician is amazing and is just waiting for us to request a referral. I have been waying the pros and cons of having this screening. Giving us more tools on our IEP def is the big pro. Thank you so much for your post and I might PM you if I get lost.....
Alee,
There is no way anyone would think you were being anymore than your kind wonderful self . |
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Family Matters: 2nd grade discipline... |
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2nd grade discipline...
