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Barnyard Buddies:  MORE goat questions.  |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 20 2009 : 5:35:07 PM
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Ok, I have a few more goat questions.
I've read that you have to breed does when there 7 to 8 months old or else they will have problems in the . Is that true? Has anyone experienced this at all? I'm just wondering because I'm not really sure I want to breed SadieMae in a few months because she looks so small.
2. My buck smells so bad!! I was wondering if there was anything that could help the smell. something that I could spray in there so it smells a little bit better? Maybe tons of Cologne sprayed in his pen would work. 
I think thats all for now, but I may think of more later.
Maggie
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southerncrossgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
631 Posts
Gena
Harmony
NC
USA
631 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2009 : 6:51:10 PM
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I usually can tell if my does should be bred by their weight and age. There are different thoughts on the age of breeding. I read in a goat book that you should breed them before they are a year old, but I can't imagine why it would matter. I will say this though, I have a friend that waited and bred her does closer to age 2, and none of the does actually became pregnant. It could be that her does were way over weight though. She bought a doe from me that had 5 kids at one time, but when she bred her, she only had 1. She over feeds all her animals.
As far as your buck smelling, that is his way of telling you that your doe is in heat.
He will always be stinky when your doe is in heat. Nothing you can do about that
"A Dream Is A Wish Your Heart Makes"==Cinderella |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2009 : 5:14:41 PM
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The breeding question is not true - if a doe is fertile and the billy is fertile they can skip several years and still have kids. I never breed someone that young - their bodies are just not ready and also if they where in the wild the mother keep their young girls far away from the billy for the first year. If you are wanting the doe to be productive for many years to come and have healthy kids I sure would not bred them that early but that is just how I run my farm. Just so you know I have a 21 year old Angora girl who had a baby this year and is doing wonderful with her and "Monica" is the youngest and smallest and all the mother's keep the billy far away from her. I have a special billy - he does not even pay attention to the yearly girls - if fact you can find them all napping together but no hanky panky. Selection of the right billy is key to a good farm operation.
As for the billy that is his way of showing the girls that he is ready and willing. I have nineteen boys here so it is just part of them being boys. There are things you can use to wash the smell off you but as for him it is just what they do.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2009 : 5:47:56 PM
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Thank you all for you answers! Joey ( my buck) is smelling a little bit better now. I was just hoping there was a little something I could spray in there to make it bearble. Thanks again!
Maggie |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2009 : 6:33:45 PM
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I'm with Grace on this one. Whoever told you they HAD to be bred so young is seriously misinformed, or just plain ignorant. Just because an animal CAN be bred at such a young age doesn't mean it SHOULD be. It's your call Maggie. If you're not comfortable breeding your doe at that age then don't do it. And DON'T let someone else tell you how to raise YOUR animals, but DO still be open to "sage" advice. You don't always have to take it, but sometimes it REALLY helps. Especially when that advice is given by someone like Grace who KNOWS what she's talking about! (A 21yr old Angora goat still having babies? That's FANTASTIC Grace!!!)
As a rule, I never breed under age two either, but this year I had a VEEEERY randy buck who bred EVERYONE in sight and blessed me with 40 babies!!!! Unfortunatley, he bred some of his daughters and one grandaughter, but no serious genetic defects reared their ugly heads. (Thank you Jesus!!!) One doe kid has a double teat on one side and another has an extra little tiny teat about an inch higher than her "real" one. If that's the extent of the "Defects," I can live with that! So far everyone else seems fine.
The scary thing was that a few of the does he bred were less than 6mos old, and I can tell you I was ready to KILL HIM for that!!! Though, he lucked out because I didn't even know they were pregnant until I found all these little babies and couldn't guess who the mothers were at first.
A happy ending to the story is that all three are FABULOUS mothers (2 had twins, one a single, and all does!) Their kids are VERY healthy (and into all sorts of trouble!), and absolutely beautiful. (WHEW!!)
Just go with your gut Maggie. No one knows your goats better than you do. If something doesn't sound/feel right, then don't do it. Trust me, your goats will thank you for it! Hugs~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2009 : 6:38:05 PM
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Oh! and about the Stinky Buck issue? Well, look at it this way, WE love a GOOD smellin' man, don't we? Well, apparently to the "Goat Girls", THAT'S a GOOD smell!! (GAG! Makes me GLAD I'm a HUMAN!)
Usually my boys stink to high heaven the most in the Fall (though Nigerians can breed ALL YEAR LONG!). The rest of the year the odor is not soooo terribly bad. Just keep them downwind from the house and all should be well. (he! he! he!!)
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2009 : 7:10:29 PM
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Thank you so much Tracy! So is it ok if I breed her at 8 months old? Or is it still really young?
Maggie |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2009 : 9:42:11 PM
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The question you should be asking Maggie is -- are YOU ready for your doe to have kids? Do you feel that she is mature enough? What kind of mother did SHE have? If her mom was a good mother and had no birthing issues, then your doe should be like-wise (though there are ALWAYS exceptions to that rule). Birthing and mothering abilities (and problems) tend to be passed on from mother to daughter and on through the generations.
I have never had any problems with any of my does, except one --she prolapses 2wks prior to kidding, but it's a "Mechanical" issue, not genetic, as no other does in her line have the condition. (I have 4 generations of that line here on the farm. Neither her mother, daughter or granddaughter have had this problem, though it CAN be genetic). It was not MY choice to breed her this year, but it happened regardless (and the same prolapse occured). Thankfully I got two beautiful blue eyed kids out of her (one a DOE!!!). This was definitely her last breeding. She's a sweet doe and I'd hate to lose her to complications down the road.
Anyway, it's up to YOU Maggie how you deal with this decision. Whatever you choose, I wish you and your little lady the best! Hugs~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2009 : 10:21:30 PM
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Thank you again Tracey. I want them to have babies really soon and would love to breed her in December. Her mother is a great goat and she kidded earley this year very well I think. I've only had the goats for 5 months so I don't know a who lot. Thanks again!
Maggie |
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kmbrown
True Blue Farmgirl
459 Posts
Misty
Waynesboro
Pennsylvania
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 05:02:41 AM
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Oh Tracy...no kidding about the bucks in the fall!!! We have two nigerian buck's and they have been in rut and it is putrid. They pee everywhere, they are normally white and their faces look brown and ohhhhh if we get a humid day it is just terrible!!!
Not much you can do for it....we just laugh at them!!! |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 07:51:43 AM
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Maggie I am going to chime in again for one reason - if the girl is small and she is so young are you willing to take the risk of shortening her production life or give her body undo stress at this growth time? I am not sure if you realize that it take a goat a full two years before they are fully grown - it is like breeding a 10 year old human girl - it can be done but it is wise? Again, I might suggest that you do a bunch of studying on raising goats before you start breeding goats. If you are wanting more goats I might suggest either purchasing some that are already bred. Also since you do not have that much info on the goat you might be opening yourself up to things you are not ready to deal with. Do you have an experience mentor that will assist if there are issues?? Again, it is your farm but please take time to educate yourself before you undergo this - I have assisted too many first time breeders who where not prepared for the worst and trust me the worth can and does happen even to us experienced breeders. I understand the excitement of wanting kids in the barn but trust me it is much more rewarding to have a LONG, healthy life with your goat and her generations to come - waiting is well worth it.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 09:14:03 AM
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I have read a lot of books about goats. I know that you can breed them when there 7 to 8 months old but they have to weigh 80 pounds. They say no matter what age they are they have to weigh 80 pounds. Right now she weighs 65 pounds so if she does not weigh 80 pounds by December then I will not breed her. The lady that I got them from breeds hers when they are 10 months old and they do fine. ( shes been raising goats for over 20 years). My dad has really helped me look stuff up and he will help me if there is anything that goes wrong. So I do know what I'm talking about and even know I don't have much experienced with goats, I've looked up lots of stuff and read lots of books on goat care, health and such because I really want to do things right. Thank you all for you help!
Sorry If I seem really rude. I'm sorry but I don't want you to think that I'm a stupid 14 year old who does not now what she's doing. And I'm not saying that I am an expert at all. Sorry if it sounds like that. And thank you Grace for all the wonderful info on the goats!
Maggie |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 09:24:21 AM
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Here is the artical that I got from this book on goat breeding. The book is called Storey's Guide to Raising Dairy Goats By Jerry Belanger.
When to breed.
Doelings are sexually mature as early as 3 to 4 months of age. They should not be bred at that stag of development. In most cases spring kid that are well developed and healthy should be bred when they weigh about 80 pounds and are 7 to 8 months old, which means they'll kid at 1 year of age. Breed by weigh, not by age. Being bred too early will adversely affect their growth and milk production; being bred too late does not contribute to their health and welfare; it's expensive to keep dry yearlings; and records show that does that kid at 1 year of age produce more milk in a lifetime than those that are held over. Many people mistakenly hold back young does because "they look so small" or because 7 months seems so young. With proper nutrition, they'll produce healthy kids, and keep on growing themselves.
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 09:26:54 AM
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I'm so sorry grace if I questioned your advice at all. I feel very bad about some of the stuff I said. I did not mean to question your judgement. Will you forgive me?
Maggie |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 09:37:12 AM
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And I'm very sorry for being disrespectful. ( no, my mom is not making me write this. I have a concience and I know when to say I was wrong.) I have a temper and after all these years I'm still learning to control it.
Maggie |
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1badmamawolf
True Blue Farmgirl
2199 Posts
Teresa
"Bent Fence Farms"
Ca
USA
2199 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 10:00:24 AM
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My advice to "ANYONE" is to never put the cart before the horse. Research, research and research some more, talk to everyone and anyone willing to answer all of your questions, who sold you your stock should be more than willing to answer and give their opinions and advice, go to your local fairs and talk to breeders, also being in 4-h or FFa would be a great help for you. All of this should of been done BEFORE you bought your first goat, or at the least, before you even thought about breeding, also remember that all breeds can and will be some what differant, and differant bloodlines will make a differance sometimes also. Good luck, and don't alienate the experienced.
"Treat the earth well, it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 10:29:40 AM
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I've done all that Teresa! Thanks!
Maggie |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 12:03:48 PM
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Sorry I keep thing of things to say..
Even though I really want babies come May I would never in anyway hurt SadieMae. I me and my dad did not think Sadie was ready to breed, then we would not breed her.
Maggie |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 1:15:14 PM
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Dearest Maggie - I would never think of you as a dumb 14 year old nor would I think of you that way if you where 114 years old. I too have read all the books, gone to as many classes as there are on animals, I even spent three years shadowing a vet because I did not come from Farm background. I was a 4H leader for 15 years so I know it is hard to know what advice to take and what to believe. When I first started out I went by the books, the older farmers and found that just because a book says so or my favorite saying of the old timers is "We have been doing it this way for 40 years or 60 years, does not always mean it is right. As I stated each owner of an animal must decide what will work for their moral center. When I first stated a lady who is the "God of SHEEP" told me that if the lamb could not nurse with 12 hours to just pick it up by the back legs and smash it head against the barn wall. I must admit I almost threw up when she said that.. When I caught my breath I said "What on earth would you do that"? She replied She did not have time to waste on those who would take up her time and cost her in milk replacer. As I drove home crying I decided right then and there if any animal on my farm had a shot no matter how slim I would move heaven and earth for that animal. No do not get my wrong when someone was beyond hope or in horrible pain that the vets and I could do nothing more well then yes I did the only thing left. I know you are wanting to do right by your sweet girl and I am not saying you are not but all I know is sometimes the rule of 80 pounds is not the only guide. Some girls really need a year to become a grown up. Or if they are really not structurally big enough to hold the weight of the billy you can have screwed up disks in their backs, broken ribs, hairline fractures in their hind legs and a whole host of other issues. Also, if the billy throws twins, triplets and such that little girl will not have the ability to consume enough calories to keep her body growning and the little one's inside. All will get the short end of the stick.
I really want you to know that all I want for you and your sweet girl is a long, productive and healthy life together. When folks hear about my 21 year old mother Angora or my lead nanny who for two years killed her unborn babies by throwing herself against the barn until she aborted and since she has been with me now 13 years she has each year delivered a sound healthy baby and is my top mother and is also the lead girl. She shows all the new mom's what to do and will even care for a sick one. Patience and time will get you a wonderful start to raising goats.
Again, it is because I love goats so much that I want to help others have the best possible experience - If you have a chance to ever visit my blog you can see even those who have been brought into the house and lived with me to save their lives. In fact, one of my bottle boys "Sherlock" who was a home kid is now this year being used as my top stud - the vet did not think he would live the night and here we are three years later a top breeding stud...
Good luck and know I admire anyone who asks questions - I still do and still each day learn something new to help in my care of my animals.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2009 : 2:04:30 PM
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Thank you Grace and will with my hole heart take your advice in to consideration.Maybe I was thinking of my self and not Sadie... Thank you so much for you help!
Maggie |
Edited by - maggie14 on Sep 23 2009 3:20:46 PM |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2009 : 8:24:17 PM
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Once again Grace, your wisdom astounds and humbles me....
Maggie, I know just how you feel. I couldn't wait for MY first babies either. I've spent nearly 12yrs breeding Babydoll sheep (though I started with older stock) and nearly 8yrs with Nigerian dwarf goats, but let me tell you, Grace is right when she cautions you about not believing EVERYTHING you read in those books and trusting all the things the "Old timers" tell you. I'll tell you about MY first experience with birthing, and trust me when I say what happend to me I'd never read about in ANY of my books or heard about from an experienced breeder!
I had two ewes (mother and daughter, ages 4 & 6 and experienced mothers) go into labor on the same day at the same EXACT time! BOTH had complications and I was all alone, had no time to run to the phone to call for help and had to act VERY fast or I would have lost BOTH lambs and one of my ewes. First I had to decide WHO to help first. Somehow, and by the grace of God, I managed and everything turned out ok, but.... I shudder to think of all the things that could have gone wrong.
And, trust me, things HAVE gone wrong. I HAVE lost lambs over the years, MANY in fact, for various reasons -- genetic defects (THAT'S a whole story in itself), accidents, stillbirths, stupid mothers etc.... Like Grace said, the learning and the lessons NEVER end. I lost 2 lambs this year from 3 very difficult births, and I haven't had to assist in a birth in nearly 9yrs (my ewes were all too fat). I lost 13 baby goats this year as well (had lots of multiple births), and I didn't even breed them, they sort of took it upon themselves to make it happen. It's been an EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING and a terribly heartbreaking year, to say the least. Every year I ask myself the SAME question-- "Do I really want to keep doing this?" and all I can say is-- either I'm a glutton for punishment and I LIKE to cry, or I really love what I do...... You decide!
I'm not not chimin' in here to bust your chops Maggie, and neither was Grace. Honestly, she said all the things I WANTED to say, but didn't think I should. Guess she's more staightforward than I am. Anyway, we're both just trying to prepare you for what lies ahead. There will always be something you never expected and situations WILL crop up that no book has ever mentioned, and no "Old timer" ever heard of. It's just the way things are in this world. You've only had your doe for five months. That's not really long enough to get to know her.
Jumping into breeding at this stage of the game might not be the best thing, but again, only YOU can decide. Things may go off without a hitch, but then there might be all kinds of hitches. The grief and heartache WILL come with raising livestock. There is no escape from it no matter how good a breeder is. I had two GLORIOUS years with my sheep before I had any problems with them. I spent 5 loooong years in HELL tracking a genetic defect in one of my lines that killed off nearly every single buck born of it. The risidual affects ran through the ENTIRE line. Long ago I retired the ewe responsible, and now her only daughter as well. I doubt at this point I will even ATTEMPT to breed her 2 surviving granddaughters. I've had enough with fighting all that.
Just choose your path wisely Maggie. And don't be in such a rush. Again, we wish you ONLY the best and hope for only HAPPY endings. Take care love. Hugs from a farm sister who's BEEN there (and more times than I care to COUNT!) ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2009 : 8:25:20 PM
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PS: Sorry I'm such a WIND-BAG. I haven't quite learned how to shorten my messages!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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1badmamawolf
True Blue Farmgirl
2199 Posts
Teresa
"Bent Fence Farms"
Ca
USA
2199 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2009 : 08:25:25 AM
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Grace and Tracy are both very correct in their statements, listen to them! If you really want to start breeding goats, I have a suggestine for you, go buy a goat that has had several kids, is not a first timer or maiden as most would say and learn from an experienced doe. Ask neighbors who also breed if you can be present during their kidding season so you can see what happens and learn. Being a first timer with a maiden goat is not the best of ideas. Good luck to you
"Treat the earth well, it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2009 : 7:53:26 PM
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Teresa is right. That's why I chose older, "experienced" ewes when I bought my sheep. I had read so many of those sheep breeding books it sort of freaked me out to start with very young ewes who'd never had lambs.
After 5yrs of breeding sheep I was no longer afraid of getting young does to breed. I figured goats couldn't be that much different than sheep, though I have to admit, my does give birth MUCH easier than my ewes. I have yet to help with a goat birth, though I have lost babies from both. That's never easy, no matter HOW MANY years you breed.
If you have the room Maggie, and the funds, it just might be a good idea to get an older bred doe and start from there. Not only will YOU learn from her, but, believe it or not, your little doe will too!
It's facinating to see the way goats interact with one another. They actually do teach one another and learn from one another. They form bonds and friendships just like people do. They form a "Society" with class systems as well. It's truly amazing to see.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2009 : 10:38:00 AM
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Hi Ladies, I do have a older doe that I am going to breed in December. She's 5 years old. I'm so glad my dad will be there to help me too. Thank you all for your help and Thank you for caring about SadieMae. Like I said before if me and my dad don't think shes's ready then we won't breed her. Thanks again for all your help.
Maggie |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2009 : 3:10:47 PM
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If you know for a FACT the day your doe gets bred, you will be able to make a very good guess as to when she will kid. THAT in itself will make your first "birthing" experience less stressful. (and you'll get more sleep in the 4 1/2 mos before your doe is due to kid!).
So... if you breed her in December, you should expect your kids to be born around the same date (give or take a week or so either way) in May. Keep us posted Maggie, and good luck! Oh, and DO let Miss SadieMae be a part of all that. She just might learn something herself! ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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Barnyard Buddies: MORE goat questions. |
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MORE goat questions.
