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Barnyard Buddies:  That's it. No more kibble  |
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greyghost
True Blue Farmgirl
650 Posts
Lynn
Summerville
Georgia
USA
650 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 09 2009 : 11:28:57 AM
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We've been feeding the dogs raw for dinner for several years. Breakfast for them is usually kibble mixed with raw egg and an omega 3 supplement. We've been adding more stuff to the kibble as the quality of the stuff goes down - in the past four years, it went from being difficult to find a kibble that had the first three ingredients as being actual meat to finding just the first one being meat, and not corn or an animal by-product.
Hubby and I were picking through the kibble on the shelves at the store this weekend, and we just said this was it. No more of THAT. We don't have children, so we might as well take the best care of the dogs we can.
So, we bought several whole chickens at 85 cents a pound and I spent Sunday chopping them up into dinner portions and freezing them in all the butter containers I keep on hand. The carcasses were then cooked down (I don't let them have too much in the way of chicken bone, one of them tends to digestively have issues with chicken bone after a while) and I packed up all the cooked meat off those bones to add to their new breakfast menu: rice cooked in broth (also saved from cooking down the bones of chicken, beef, pork, etc), with cooked meat and a few eggs tossed into that.
I feel bad about the rice as filler, but it's a darn sight better than ground corn and heaven-knows-what is in the kibble. We couldn't afford to feed them raw all the time, so I have to make it stretch somehow. Mornings take a little longer than they used to, but rice is a quick thing to cook alongside my morning tea ritual.
We're going to talk to the locals who hunt and offer them some money per pound for the meat that isn't choice for people, but is for dogs: organ meat especially. I'm lucky enough to find chicken hearts and pork stomach at the store from time to time, but we need more than that for a balanced diet.
I try not to get mad at the kibble companies, but how can I not? Cornmeal just isn't in a dog's natural diet.
Anybody else adding an extra day's worth of work to their month just so their animals eat better? What do you do? |
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl
11303 Posts
kristin
chickamauga
ga
USA
11303 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2009 : 5:51:49 PM
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Lynn, what lucky dogs you have. What kind are they? My friend has Australian Shephards that she shows and she feeds them raw meat and bones that have not been cooked. She says they don't get slivers that way. She has been to the slaughter house and they think she's crazy. So she buys stuff like you're doing, too.
I know what you mean about the corn. I have given up trying to find cat food that's any good. They all start off with corn, too.
And I am just up the road from you. I was there the other day taking some goats to a friends to disbud them for me. Well, she's in Trion. Then had to go to the Summerville Vet Sat. for worm meds. Do you know the grass fed beef guy that's over there? He comes to our farmer's market on Sat. here.
Oh and I remember someone on another forum from Montana doing this for her dogs, too. Good for you for taking such good care of your animals. I need to start doing this for my ole Bubba. He does get fresh goat milk every day, though.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
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prariehawk
True Blue Farmgirl
2914 Posts
Cindy
2914 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2009 : 7:32:24 PM
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Lynn-it sounds like you're doing a great job of feeding your dogs. The dog food companies would have you believe that you can't feed a balanced diet by feeding "people food" but until the middle part of the last century, that's how most dogs were fed. and they did just fine on it. I've cooked for my dog sometimes and he likes "people food" much more than his kibble. (I can tell because his tail wags when he's eating kibble, but when he eats real food, he's so earnest about it that that's all he can think about and he gets real serious). For a cheaper alternative, you might consider feeding a can or two of salmon once in a while. Dogs love it and the oil is especially good for them. So are sardines. I only wish that all dog owners were as concerned about what their dogs eat as you are.
Cindy |
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Bear5
True Blue Farmgirl
13055 Posts
Louisiana/Texas
USA
13055 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2009 : 7:38:24 PM
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I have sure learned alot from these postings. Thanks.
Marly
"It's only when we truly know and understand that we have a limited time on earth- and that we have no way of knowing when our time is up- that we will begin to live each day to the fullest, as if it was the only one we had." Elisabeth Kurler-Ross |
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greyghost
True Blue Farmgirl
650 Posts
Lynn
Summerville
Georgia
USA
650 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2009 : 05:16:43 AM
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Seems like a lot of work, I guess, for a couple of mutts! Kristin, so cool you live so close! I've had a disagreement with one of the local vets about their raw diet (it wasn't Bridget). That vet insisted I'd have a lot of doggie tummy trouble with the diet - very much not the case, and neither dog has been sick since they started getting raw. On kibble, there was usually one trip per month to the vet for one thing or another - and they were practically pups!
I understand the whole "people thinking she's crazy" thing. We don't eat meat, save for the occasional fish - so here is a vegetarian cutting up the oddest meat portions for her DOGS!
I do know Brian (grass fed beef guy) -sometimes he has some cuts that are nice and cheap for me to give to the dogs, like the stewing bones they can spend an afternoon cleaning up. He lives just down the road from me. Raw bones are an important part of the diet, actually.
Were you taking your goats to Ruth? Amazing woman, if you don't know her I'll introduce you sometime.
Prarie, I was thinking about that whole "what did people on the farm USED to feed their dogs?" and decided nobody back then would have had the time to do what I do, unless the dogs WERE the income generator. The dogs themselves may have supplemented their diets with a little local game, but for the most part, I'd imagine they were given whatever was handy. As I understand it, Dalmations have been with nomadic gypsies for so many centuries that through a process of natural "evolution" they actually do better with more veggies in their diet.
We do keep cans of salmon around for those "we forgot to thaw their raw dinner" nights. For a long time we were giving them mackarel, which tends to be cheaper - but then we found Cookie (Shepherd mix) was having an odd reaction to it. She's perfectly fine with salmon though.
I understand there are a lot of raw feeders for cats too. The rules may be a little different as far as the balance of meats or supplements, but I'd bet a cat wouldn't be too pricey to feed this way (or a small dog, for that matter). |
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl
11303 Posts
kristin
chickamauga
ga
USA
11303 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2009 : 05:25:39 AM
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Hey Lynn. I would love to meet other "goat" people. But my friend's name is Kendra and she actually works at the vet's in Summerville. Been around goats all her life. So I trust her alot and she's one of my mentors. I like Bridgette, too. She's been here.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
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Contrary Wife
True Blue Farmgirl
2164 Posts
Teresa Sue
Tekoa
WA
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2009 : 06:33:09 AM
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I met an amazing woman who raises sheep and she has Great Pyrenees dogs for guard dogs. When she culls her flock, all of the old ewes are taken to the butcher and she uses that to feed her dogs. She said it comes full circle, the dogs take care of the sheep, then the sheep take care of the dogs....it just seemed such a sane thing to do.
Teresa Sue
Farmgirl Sister #316
Planting Zone 4
"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly." The Dalai Lama |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2009 : 1:12:21 PM
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At least you are doing the best you can.
And sadly, most mainstream dry kibble is of very poor quality. Take the bad fillers and add to these mystery meat animal paert that yes, sometimes do come from roadkill, euthanized pets from vets and rendering plants. It's pretty pathetic. On top of this, most of these companies do not get their meat sources from here in the U S
If you don't have access to a decent non-mainstream shee-shee pet store that sells wholistic you can always go for mailorder companies that 1. are MORE than willing to tell you what'sin ther foods, and 2. their companies are in the U s and ONLY use all us made products.
Its really scary and really, shows why we lose our pets at young ages to all the cancers.
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Ingrid
True Blue Farmgirl
432 Posts
Ingrid
BC
Canada
432 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2009 : 3:10:35 PM
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My one dog had allergies so badly to kibble - and we tried them all - his entire stomach from his neck to his tail was chewed insanely. He has been on a raw diet for about seven months now and no longer do we have a problem. His skin is terrific, his hair is shiny and his breath doesn't smell as badly. Less waste as well. My small dog loves it and both dogs actually initially lost weight and then stayed the same weight so they actually use what they eat. Will never feed a dog anything but raw food.
Give thanks to yourself everyday for all the wonderful things you do! |
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yasmine
True Blue Farmgirl
173 Posts
yasmine
wappingers falls
ny
USA
173 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 04:12:45 AM
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| anyone think a lot of the sickness and cancers and from these vaccines we are pumping into thier bodies ( I do) , and does anyone have some recipes for a cat , something easy? He wont eat sardines, raw chicken YES....any ideas? |
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greyghost
True Blue Farmgirl
650 Posts
Lynn
Summerville
Georgia
USA
650 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 07:09:21 AM
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Actually Yasmine, I have done a good bit of research into the area of cancers and vaccines - not just for animals but people too. Avoid them if you can! There is a reason why certain shots are given at the base of the tail, and in the leg: because there are times when a cancer develops at the injection site, and the leg or tail needs to be amputated. There is a vet in Canada who has been fighting this, trying to get these vaccines off the market to a needs-only basis at least while new ones get developed, but the Canadian government refused.
The mainstream kibble does, of course, also contribute to poor health. I love how their marketing points out how much we love our animals, and how we should feed them them their high-quality kibble (rofl) to keep our best friends healthy and strong. I used to be PROUD that I fed my dogs Purina One- I'm sure a lot of other people out there are still happily thinking they are giving their buddy a great meal.
It's really the same with people food. Most of those health bars aren't so healthy. I'm in the process of studying to become a Clinical Nutritionist now, not just because of what changes I found in my dogs after changing their diet, but changes in my own diet and how my husband and I feel as well. In short: I had one dog (shepherd mix) which was in bad shape when I got her. 5 months old, no energy. We called her the rug. She stank - her breath smelled so bad you'd think she ate something long dead, and the day after a bath, she would reek again. Her coat was coarse, and her nails never grew. She threw up all the time. We were still feeding Purina kibble at the time, and we had her a year before I made the change to raw.
On a raw diet, her nails grew, she instigated play (still does), her coat became luxuriously soft (petting her is a joy) and her breath no longer smells. Both dogs have massive improvements in energy levels, their teeth are gorgeous (never brushed them), and they don't require vet trips. We went back to half raw for convenience reasons while remodeling our house.
After months of research, I tried us on a vegan diet. Very little prepackaged soy - mainly fresh fruits and veggies, and organic to boot. Within 3 days, I noticed symptoms of arthritis disappearing. I was 29 at the time, there were days when cooking was a challenge. We both had more energy. We have both lost weight (we were not considered fat to start with, but now we look great!). DH's gingivitis disappeared. We don't have morning breath (who would have thought?). Aunt Flo used to double me over for two days with horrible symptoms. I now know dairy causes those problems, and my arthritis. We are rarely sick.
After the independent research i have done - I wouldn't get any vaccinations anymore if I can help it. None of em. |
Edited by - greyghost on Jun 11 2009 07:12:01 AM |
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Ms.Lilly
True Blue Farmgirl
826 Posts
Lillian
Scotts Mills
OR
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 07:55:10 AM
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Lynn- I couldn't have said it better myself! I cook for my dogs and have for about 5 years. The only reason that they get a little bit of commercial dog food in the morning is because DH says if anything was to happen to me, he would not have the extra time to cook for the dogs, so they better know how to eat dog food. The funny thing is he agrees with my way of thinking, and I really do feel he would eventually cook for them. My vet really doesn't agree with the people food idea and when I took one of my dogs in with red, itchy skin he told me it was a food alergy and I needed to spend 500 dollars to have him tested- no help what so ever! Today we are off to see a new vet! If you feel bad about using rice as a filler, you could use oatmeal instead- my dogs love it! Also don't forget about throwing a few veggies in the mix, my male dog comes a running every time he hears the fridge open hoping I will give him a carrot. I also make their treats. I do not cook for my cat, but will give her the dog food I have made as a treat. She is 15 and dying, so I am not going to change things on her now.
We ourselves eat very little processed food, and I belive are healthier for it. While we are not meat free, we do eat less of it than we used to. I mill our flour and make all of our bread. Most of our veggies that we eat through out the year we grow and put up. It is nice to hear that there are like minded people out there! Most people think I am nuts cooking for my dogs!
Lillian |
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babysmama
True Blue Farmgirl
931 Posts
Elizabeth
Iowa
931 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 08:41:40 AM
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We only get our dogs and cats rabies shots (because they are required by law and to protect us and our children) and try to feed them a fairly high quality animal food, though I wish I had the time and money to feed them a raw diet. I do supplement their food with our leftovers, which I think is better for them than kibble. Our animals are all super healthy. Our German Shepherd/St. Bernard is seven years old and has never had to go to the vet except for her check ups and a false pregnancy. Our cats are super healthy too, except for one when she is fed a cheap cat food will get urinary tract infections and start coughing up hairballs. When I get her back on a higher quality food she is fine. Dogs 50 years ago used to be so much healthier...you didn't hear about all the allergies, behavior problems, etc. They lived on farms and were fed scraps, had the freedom to run around all day, and basically were just dogs. Now these dogs go to get a flower shampoo every few weeks and their nails done, are fed expensive dog foods and have a little fur lined bed to sleep in and get walked a few times a week and their hair is falling out from stress, they get itchy because of the food they are fed, and they chew things because they are bored and alone too much. Hmmmm...doesn't sound like progress to me! lol
-Elizabeth |
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Especially For You
True Blue Farmgirl
541 Posts
Tina
Watkinsville
GA
541 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 12:36:57 PM
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I want to do it!!! Change my poor dogs diet. But where do you start? She is a 6 yr old yorkie. we are realy having problems with her skin, flakey, red itchy, ears smell. coat feels like a wire brush. Vet said food alergies, take her to the vet school at UGA and have her tested. I realy don't have the money for that. I think if I start feeding her a raw diet that she will get better. But like I said where do your start?
Help!!
Sophies' Mom~ Tina |
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Sarahpauline
True Blue Farmgirl
672 Posts
sarah
Ringgold
GA
USA
672 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 1:22:23 PM
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I do a cooked diet for my three dogs. (Two labs and a terrier) Ive been doing in for about 2 years now. I always use brown rice, chicken, venison or salmon if someone caught or hunted some, eggs, and pumpkin, or yams. They also get potatoes and some other veggies as reccomended by my vet such as carrots, spinach and beets. I cook it up like a stew. :) I also like to include corn oil and raw ground flax seed. Their coats gleam.
Not all those who wander are lost...
www.SarahPauline.com
www.AbraxasBaroque.com |
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Sarahpauline
True Blue Farmgirl
672 Posts
sarah
Ringgold
GA
USA
672 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 1:24:46 PM
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I also have cats, I dont dare do a cooked diet for them since they have such unique needs. Anyone do homemade for their cats?
Not all those who wander are lost...
www.SarahPauline.com
www.AbraxasBaroque.com |
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Especially For You
True Blue Farmgirl
541 Posts
Tina
Watkinsville
GA
541 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 1:55:55 PM
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Thanks Sarah,
I am going to try that and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks,
Tina |
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1badmamawolf
True Blue Farmgirl
2199 Posts
Teresa
"Bent Fence Farms"
Ca
USA
2199 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 2:41:52 PM
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I have always "only" cooked for my dogs, ( about 35 years now), I raise/grow almost everything that we eat, so it was always cheaper, and healthier, to do the same for the dogs. I chop and grind everything and mix it well and make a meatloaf, lightly cook, cool and slice into protions, then freeze. Thaw as needed, and at that time , add vitamins and minerals as needed. what I put into the loafs is: beef meat and bone along with organmeat, pork, same as beef, chicken/turkey/duck/goose, meat and organmeat, vegtables, ie, yams, greenbeans, peas, carrots, peppers, fruit, ie, peaches, plums, apricots, all in small amounts, wildrice, and what ever else is currantly avalible, elk, venison, fish etc.
"Treat the earth well, it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" |
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1badmamawolf
True Blue Farmgirl
2199 Posts
Teresa
"Bent Fence Farms"
Ca
USA
2199 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 2:45:07 PM
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sarahpauline, my dogloaf recipe is for cats also, just no bones and cat vitamins and minerals added when served.
"Treat the earth well, it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" |
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greyghost
True Blue Farmgirl
650 Posts
Lynn
Summerville
Georgia
USA
650 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 4:01:08 PM
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Hey Tina:
I try to find meat that's less than a dollar a pound. As long as you mix it up (chicken for dinner, lamb for breakfast, pork for dinner, turkey for breakfast) it's fine. You'll want about 10% of your dog's diet to be organ meat. Usually I can find chicken hearts and gizzards, liver and pig stomach at the grocery store. I don't recall the whole formula to figure out the weight of your dog and the weight of the amount of meat they need daily - but oddly enough, the way it worked out, it came out to being so close in numbers I just rounded it out: my 40 pound dog needs .40# of meat per meal, and the 60# dog needs .60# per meal. It doesn't look like much! But their weight is very stable, neither of them show any ribs, that's for sure.
Bone: never cooked bone, but raw bone is a needed part of the diet.I let them work away on bigger bones (pork or beef) for several hours once a month. I couldn't get it away from one of the dogs if I tried, so I let her be with one huge bone dinner per month. They need the marrow in the diet too.
It may seem scary at first. On a dog forum I used to frequent, a new raw feeder held the phone in one hand with the emergency vet set on speed dial, and nervously gave her dog a chicken leg. Of course it was fine. Stu's first several chicken leg meals were frightening in how fast she gobbled them down - I swear it was nothing more than "crunch, crunch, gulp" that's IT. We are always telling her to chew her food. lol. But for that lack of chewing, she's never had a problem with bone.
Good luck! |
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Sarahpauline
True Blue Farmgirl
672 Posts
sarah
Ringgold
GA
USA
672 Posts |
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prariehawk
True Blue Farmgirl
2914 Posts
Cindy
2914 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 8:59:04 PM
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It's really interesting to read about the effects of a raw diet and vaccines (or not) on pet health. I no longer get the recommended shots for my dog (DHLLP) only rabies cause it's required by law. Boxer has a lump on his hindquarters where he was given a shot, and my former vet said it was a follicular cyst. Now I've found a new vet and she's going to do a fine needle aspiration with lab work on it tomorrow.I just hope it's nothing serious. He IS a boxer and they are prone to cancer. He eats kibble that lists venison and bison as it's first two ingredients and it doesn't have any grain. I give him healthy people food as well. He's eleven years old and while he sleeps more than he used to, he jumps and plays like a young dog. I'll NEVER feed him or any other dog some of that mainstream stuff that you get at the grocery store.
Cindy
"Dog is my co-pilot"
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
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ranchetta
True Blue Farmgirl
318 Posts
carol
Marysville
Wahington
USA
318 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2009 : 8:44:25 PM
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Informative post!
There sure seems to be a controversy of the basic nutritional need for dogs and cats. Some people insist that pure meat with no fillers is what cats and dogs need in their diet. I have no clue but when we had dogs (shepherds) we fed the Costco "Kirkland" brand and they stayed healthy and fit (we still feed our cats the same brand and haven't had health issues...yet, anyway). This post has me curious though so I'll do some further research.....
http://curlywillowsranch.blogspot.com/
http://alteredshots.blogspot.com/ |
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Prairie Princess
True Blue Farmgirl
1075 Posts
Jodi
Washington
USA
1075 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2009 : 10:42:02 PM
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Carol, my mum feeds her dogs Kirkland's dog food, and has for several years. It's a fairly good formula, actually, but she told me the cat formula had a lot of fillers in it, so you may want to check it out. Not sure why they'd vary the quality across the species range, but....
Two brands I'd recommend are Wellness and Natural Balance. Both sell grain free formulas, and the formulas that do use grain use oatmeal, barely, etc. Very, very good food. About the best you can get in a kibble. The main ingredients are (real) meat.
As far as ALL meat diets, or some grains/veggies....cats do best on ALL meat...as they're strictly carnivorous by nature, and get "veggie stuff" from the digested food in the tracts of their prey. Cats simply cannot thrive long term on a vegetarian diet, no matter how balanced nutritionally. Their gut isn't designed to handle high-fiber diets (which would basically be anything other than meat).
Dogs are omnivores, though, and can do great on a mixed diet, as long as the grains/veggies are high quality, which unfortunately isn't usually the case with the ones in processed food.
Isn't it amazing the differences in health and happiness that show up in our pets depending on what they eat??
~Jodi
"Women are like teabags...you never know how strong they are until they get into hot water." Eleanor Roosevelt
www.jodielyzabeth.blogspot.com |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2009 : 03:29:59 AM
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For any of us who have access to a local butcher ask for raw greet tripe.
It's one of the best vitamin and nutrient packed foods for dogs out there. I hear that some mushers out there feed this to their dog team during the Idirod (sorry, sp)
I can't stand the smell (it's cow stomach so think smelly rumen-- phew!!) but I do feed tripe that has been freezedried and offer this as treats.
And I also echo the studies about vacines and cancers. Not all, but some pets out there are very reactive to those. Sadly, I board my dog when we go on vacation, so she also has to get the Bordatella.
When I moved out West, I stopped taking my cat to the vet. She lived to be 17 .
And a little tidbit to think on. If anyone offers bones and you don't already know, please be sure these are raw and not cooked. The cooking process by whatever means makes the bones more brittle and susceptable to splintering. |
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greyghost
True Blue Farmgirl
650 Posts
Lynn
Summerville
Georgia
USA
650 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2009 : 08:40:54 AM
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I haven't gotten my dogs rabies shots in four years now. I live in a small town, and my dogs are indoors most of the time, and have a fenced backyard. I'm not terribly concerned about them getting bitten by a rabid animal, as I consider the likelihood fairly remote. We have people/friends come and feed them/let them out when we go away, as the boarding facilities here are terrible.
In some dogs, the vaccine causes odd behaviors for about three months. One of my dogs (the one we used to call "The Rug") did show changes - she started licking her feet almost constantly, which is one of the signs of a sensitivity to the rabies vaccine.
Further, I had read a controversial issue cited by a few veterinarians that the reason why some dogs go "crazy" or "snap" and suddenly turn on their families is because they are rabid: from getting the rabies vaccine every year. I don't know if bulldog varieties are more prone to this or not. I think many cases of a dog snapping have to do with environment. Even a good family dog feels he has the right to nip a child who plays too rough so they learn - unfortunately, we as a society now tend to put the poor animal down or give it a new home instead of asking what the child did! |
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Barnyard Buddies: That's it. No more kibble |
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That's it. No more kibble
