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A Farm of My Own:  I need advice please  |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 8:06:58 PM
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Hi Ladies!
I am only 2 years away from graduating from college and am starting to set some serious long term plans for my future.
This is what my boyfriend and I have talked about:
Within the next 10 years I would like to buy a small patch of land (where ever we end up). I would like to have a large garden patch- that much I have experience with-
However I would like to buy a cow and possible a bull- it depends. I would like to keep the cow as a milk cow and would like to have a cow or two to butcher each year as our own food source.
I also am planning on importing a breeding pair of Straight Egyptian Arabians.
So my question is this: How often should you breed a cow to keep her milk producing? I know you shouldn't milk while the calf is suckling as the calf needs the milk but I am not sure how long it is good to keep her producing after the calf is weaned. I am sure I will need to due much more research as the time for my little farm comes closer- but you ladies know much more than I.
Thanks
Alee |
Edited by - Alee on Feb 08 2006 8:31:15 PM |
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bubblesnz
True Blue Farmgirl
291 Posts
helen
New Zealand
291 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 9:24:26 PM
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| Cows dry off, no milk, for 5 months when in calf. You can leave the calf on the cow until weaned, or feed the calf yourself. If you are buying a milking cow, you will have to milk her, morning and night. Maybe looking at dry stock is a better option if you dont want to milk. |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 9:33:24 PM
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| No- the whole purpose of getting a cow would be for a milk cow and possible to produce a calf each year for slaughter. Does a milk cow have to have a calf each year to stay in milk(that is when biology doesn't make the milk stop during pregnancy?)? |
Edited by - Alee on Feb 08 2006 9:34:01 PM |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2006 : 10:40:44 PM
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I wouldn't keep a bull. No way..they get mean and if you arn't prepared to deal with that it just isn't worth it. I am going to have Mona bred by AI (artificial insemination) from now on..it isn't hard to find someone who does it...I already have for her next breeding. Bulls are just dang scary.
Some people here just dry the cow off for two months before calving..but then it depends on the breed if they will keep in milk that long I suppose. Helen has vast experience with cows compared with me for sure. Meat type cows are very different than dairy cows. I will be milking twice a day every single day once Mona calves (hopefully SOON) and so I am ready for that. Some folks work it out to leave the calf with the cow and milk once a day....stuff like that, but from all I have heard after the first week it is better to separate them and bottle feed. I did that with my goats too, so I have that experience. From what I have read and heard most cows won't go another whole year without having a calf and still be in milk. You really do need to breed them every year. (besides you get that bonus of a calf to sell or keep) I would recomend the book "Keeping a Family Cow" by Joann at www.keepingafamilycow.com
it is the best family cow book I have found. There is a real helpful forum on her website with people who are very experienced and helpful too. Good luck!!
Jenny in Utah
It's astonishing how short a time it takes for very wonderful things to happen...Frances Burnette
http://www.auntjennysworld.blogspot.com/ visit my little online shop at www.auntjenny.etsy.com |
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junebug
True Blue Farmgirl
2421 Posts
Sue
West Plains,
Mo.
USA
2421 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2006 : 04:47:33 AM
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Welcome Alee, it's always nice to see young people making plans for the future. I love cows, they are so special and can be trained too, I got ours used to their names and whenever called they would come running up from the woods, it was so funny! As for bulls, they can be bull headed but if raised from a calf can be handled, we never had a problem this way. You might consider starting out with goats, smaller to handle and easier to milk, I've done that too. Goats are fun also. There is a good market now for goat meat and milk. Just do your homework, something I'm sure your used too by now! Glad to have you here, keep us posted. Good luck!
" Aspire to Inspire before you Expire"
www.herbalfarmstead.blogspot.com
www.countrypleasures.motime.com |
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2006 : 07:20:31 AM
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We've had our Jersey, Dolly, for 4 years. She was 4 years old and had always been bred by a bull. In 2002, we tried AI ... three times ... it just didn't stick and she always came up open. We finally brought a Dexter bull here and he performed his job.
Dolly was in milk from April 2002 until we dried her off two months before she calved in September 2004 http://www.mullerslanefarm.com/calf.html
Over two years in milk. Of course by the time we dried her off, she was only giving less than 2 gallons a day compared to the 6 gallons when she was in full lactation.
She is still in milk from when she freshened in 2004. We had her bred and she should have calved last month. She was preg checked and was with calf. She had a problem with a twisted 2nd stomach and underwent surgery last summer. She is now rebred and due to calve in June.
We are milking her just once a day and get about 2 gallons.
Dolly only gets grain during milking, and then only a small coffee can full.
Still no calf, Jenny???
The last month seems like 6!!!
Cyndi
Joshua 24:15
Ol 'MacDonald has nothing on us!
http://www.mullerslanefarm.com |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2006 : 06:58:33 AM
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quote:
I also am planning on importing a breeding pair of Straight Egyptian Arabians.
A pair of mares, I hope?
For a person starting out, importing quality, proven stallions is cost prohibitive. A couple of good young mares might be more doable, but it's still really expensive. I'd count on having at least $30,000 for purchase, agents, quarantine, etc. And that'll probably buy two yearlings.
You might do better to start with stock here, and do your homework on bloodlines, conformation (what's desireable and fashionable right now in the Arabian show horse world), and get your feet wet first. Know that it's really easy to do everything right and then have everything go wrong. It takes a lot of skill, experience, and luck to have *most* of it go right. And be aware that there's a saying among horsemen that says "Whoever said they made a small fortune in horses started out with a large fortune." While you can cut some corners, horses are very expensive to do right, especially breeding.
For the cow, for maximum production of milk you breed every year. For dairy, we always used AI. Some dairy bulls are downright mean, but they're selected for maximum producing daughters with fewer problems. And it's cheaper than keeping a bull by far. A straw of semen and a technician might cost $50. But keeping a bull, feeding, housing, etc, will be many times more than that. It's just not cost effective, especially to service just one cow.
If you don't mind light production, you can keep on milking a cow for a very long time before breeding her back. Normally, we dry the cow off during the last two months of gestation so she can put all her energies into the developing calf. But nobody says you can't wait six months or more after calving to breed back, instead of just one month, which is the norm.
I hope this helps!
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2006 : 01:52:59 AM
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Mary Ann-
Thanks for all your great advice about the cows. I will definatly keep that in mind. I do plan on buying a breeding pair of Egyptians from Egypt when the time comes as I have been researching a lot of the stock in the states and have noticed a lot of the lines are already become closely bred. We need new blood to keep from over-breeding and in-breeding. Unfortunatly a lot of the arabians that are sold in the united states are somewhat inbred. A friend of mine had one that had to be put down because she developed several nervous disorders at about 4 yrs old. She had bought from a reputable breeder in the area and only later found out that the mare had been inbred from several generations back.
The Egyptian plan as I am calling it will not materialize for more than 8 yrs unfortunatly as I need to raise the money needed before I can fly over to Egypt to find my foundation stock for myself. I had already estimated between $50,00- $75,000 for each horse and I know it will be more due to inflation. At this point I know a bit about horses and that concerns me less than the cows! LOL
I would definatly prefer to buy yearlings over adults as I could then oversee the majority of their training. The only thing that would be better would be to be there from the start- but that is too unrealistic. I doubt I would want to leave my family for a year to train foals in Egypt before they were old enough to ship! :)
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2006 : 04:54:15 AM
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If you can set aside about $1300 every month over eight years, especially invested in a safe instrument, that should build your nest egg up enough for your purchase. But in those price ranges, I think if it was me I'd want proven broodmares, those who have successfully delivered top quality babies.
And it doesn't take a year to train foals. A few days will teach them what they need to know to get home, such as leading and loading. The rest you can do later.
I'm sorry about your friend's mare. When it works, it's called linebreeding. When it doesn't, it's called inbreeding. 
What is your intended final result for your horses? Halter? Saddleseat? Endurance? EP? |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2006 : 1:32:32 PM
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Hi Horseyrider!
Yes, it only takes a few days to teach foals halter manners and loading, but I would be concerned about taking a foal too soon from it's dam and about flying such young foals over the ocean. Maybe I am paranoid but I am not quite sure the flight would be good on such soft joints. So I would proabably spend at least 6 months to a year in Egypt if I had to wait for the mare to foal and then to train so I would still probably try to buy yearlings. Of course if I could afford a proven Broodmare and Stud then I would jump at the chance :)
I would love to train my horses to all around show, but mostly I would focus on English, Halter, Dressage and for ones that showed aptitude, I might even consider endurance. Egyptian Arabs are amazing at endurance.
Until I can afford to start my foundation farm I am taking riding lessons with an amazing lady in Pullman Washington and she is helping me not just with riding, but some great training techniques and I am hoping to get an internship with some local breeding farms during the summers to get the practical experience I need with a breeding operation. I have been around horses my whole life, but have not had the experience with breeding operations that I need.
I just have two years left of college before I can get my CPA license so I am planning on being able to save enough money through that venue. |
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dairygirl87
Farmgirl in Training
22 Posts
Laura Ann
Clarence
New York
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2006 : 9:05:56 PM
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I feel very much just a few steps behind you. I can't, obviously, give you any advice but it's sure nice to see someone doing what you're doing. I don't know much about horses, cows are my forte`...sorry! I do have to agree with these ladies, bulls are scary if you're not used to them, and some are scary even if you are. AI is definately the way to go. The dairy I work at farm has around 80 head and almost all of them are AI, the ones that have had problems breeding and are too costly to risk it on are bred by the bull "Homer Simpson"...and you really don't know how well that name fits him....
Best Of Luck!!
~Laura Ann
"No race can prosper until it learns there is as much dignity in tilling a field as there is in writing a poem..." |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2006 : 10:39:21 PM
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lol!
When the time comes, I will try AI first. Who knows- perhaps it will work. If not I will probably try to get a bull calf at a very- very young age and hand rear him. That way he could be raised with "manners". Funny story: When I was about 3 my parents took me to a farm. The lady that owned the farm had a massive bull that they had hand reared. My dad is about 5 foot 7 inches tall. The woman assured my parents that the bull was completely safe around children- in fact she offered to let me ride him. My dad had to reach up above his head to put me on this bull's shoulders. He almost couldn't hold on to me once I was up there. LOL I totally beat 8 Seconds! lol I wonder what kind of bull he was... |
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 11:47:57 AM
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Alee,
Never, EVER trust a bull!! It doesn't matter if you have raised him from a calf or that he has shown manners his entire life. I have seen 'tame, well-mannered' bulls go totally beserk for no reason on the owners that hand-raised them.
Bulls are not horses, they can not be trained like horses. You are safer with a stud horse with mares in estros around than you are with a bull.... now steers are another thing all together- they can be trained well.
Really, unless you plan on keeping a small herd of cows around, it is more economical to AI than to feed, house & vet a bull.
Cyndi
Joshua 24:15
Ol 'MacDonald has nothing on us!
http://www.mullerslanefarm.com |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 1:13:51 PM
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| :) I appreciate all the advice! You all are definatly makeing me think three times about that bull! What happened to make you all so leary of bulls? |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 1:50:51 PM
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I have just heard too many stories from family members and friends with bulls who were as sweet as can be and hand raised and freindly and then all of a sudden..one day they got mean...and someone got hurt. My Uncle recently told me a story of my great Uncle Sam, who loved his bull and spent time with him, petting and spoiling him and just thought it was so neat to have a sweet good natured bull..he had him since he was a calf..a Jersey..and one day he went out and opened the gate and the bull attacked him and my Aunt Stella had to run out with a pitchfork and take it to the bull (killed him!) to get him to stop, my uncle had broken ribs, and all sort of cuts and bruises..he would have been killed! ...my Uncle Sam cried and cried over that bull and my aunt dusted off her apron and went in the house.
Jenny in Utah
It's astonishing how short a time it takes for very wonderful things to happen...Frances Burnette
http://www.auntjennysworld.blogspot.com/ visit my little online shop at www.auntjenny.etsy.com |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 3:09:12 PM
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Wow! It takes guts to go after a bull like that! I accidently wandered into a bull's pen once when I was about 9. I thought the pen was empty (it had open access to the barn) and my cousin and I were going to go see the horses in the back pen. We got to the back pens okay, but when we were coming back one of the ranch hands saw us and asked us what we were doing kindof panicy and told us to hurry out. Sure enough- a big black bull decided to run out of the barn at that exact moment. We had to run and dodge to get away from him and the ranch hand ran over and was yelling at the bull and throwing rocks at him to keep his attention away from the us :)
Well I am glad I asked you all about this because even though I had that one experience with a bull chasing me- I always chalked it up to me not knowing my boundries and being in a place I shouldn't have been. I will definatly respect the advice when the time comes to work on my plan :) Hopefully someone will have a bull that can stand to stud (is that the proper term?) because for some reason I still think the "natural" way is better than AI. But then I don't know how sucessful AI normally is so I might be wrong. :)
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 04:36:18 AM
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Bulls are just predictably unpredictable. They are a ton of pure muscle that if they get a mind to charge you, you better say your prayers because if you're not faster than they are, you WILL get hurt. I've heard hand-raised bulls are usually the worst because they have little respect for their owners and got away with pushing & butting owners around when they were little. It's scary to watch a normally placid bull chase it's owner back to their truck and then repeatedly charge and batter the truck.
I've had a couple of bulls on my place - perfect gentlemen. One was a Dexter bull a few years old. Never even offered to be aggressive. But I never turned my back on him and I made sure I was between him and the fence in case he changed his attitude & I had to quick get out of the pasture. Also had a young Jersey bull (10-11 months). Also a gentleman but I was greatly relieved when he left and I could be amoung my cows again. Jerseys are notorious for being mean. Also had a Holstein bull calf that was half steered. He never let down one testes so wasn't fully cut. We sent him to the processor early because he started getting aggressive. He was hand raised.
Cyndi
Joshua 24:15
Ol 'MacDonald has nothing on us!
http://www.mullerslanefarm.com |
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Libbie
Farmgirl Connection Cultivator
3579 Posts
Anne E.
Elsinore
Utah
USA
3579 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 9:14:44 PM
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Wow! Not that I was considering getting a bull, but now I know for sure that when I get my cow, and when I breed her, I will definitely go the AI route. Even sheep, MUCH smaller than cows, can give you/me a pretty good butt and knock me off my feet - especially rams, who appear to have similar temperments to bulls, - I can only imagine a bull.
Jenny - that Aunt Stella of yours was one brave farmgirl - and it sounds like Uncle Sam was mighty lucky that she was!!!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
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JennyWren
True Blue Farmgirl
201 Posts
USA
201 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2006 : 10:39:55 PM
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Many years ago, I owned a 1964 Rambler Classic, it was my first car, I really loved it. When the first engine blew, we located a junk yard that had the parts we wanted. So we took a drive to the place. They told my then husband to "go out and see if it was what we needed".. the employees of the junk yard convieniently kept me and the kids talking while my ex took a walk to take a look. As I gazed out the window.. I saw my ex hopping from one car to another while a BULL charged the cars! Apparently.. this was something these people did for entertainment. They kept a bull as a "watch dog".. At the time, I was shocked. But I gotta tell you after the h*** that man put me through.. I kinda laugh at the way he was hopping from car to car.. ;)
Carla...
If you treat an individual as what he is, he will stay that way, but if you
treat him as if he were what he could be, he will become what he could be.
-- Goethe
www.jennywrensurbanhomestead.blogspot.com/ |
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Mari-dahlia
True Blue Farmgirl
269 Posts
Marianne
Hoosick Falls
New York
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2006 : 05:14:29 AM
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| Yesterday I had some driving to do and on PRI or NPR, public radio, I heard a short story on the life of one family with their bull. Even though they hand fed him and the kids played with him and they trained livestock for films and pictures as professionals, the bull put the owner in the hospital twice and one of the times he almost died. |
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Mari-dahlia
True Blue Farmgirl
269 Posts
Marianne
Hoosick Falls
New York
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2006 : 05:16:49 AM
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| OH! what I forgot to mention is the fact that this bull was a clone done at Texas A&M, from a bull they owned that was very tame. So this bull should have had the best temperment possiblities possible. |
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NancyM
True Blue Farmgirl
113 Posts
Nancy
Fall City
WA
113 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2006 : 11:04:59 AM
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Hi Alee-
Congrats on your making such great plans. It's great to have a goal in mind. It sounds like we have a lot in common. I am a CPA, and used to show arabians-until my parents quit paying the bills! We bought 5 acres 3 years ago. Originally we wanted horse property, but around here it is super expensive. We bought a great place on which we garden and raise chickens, soon to add goats, maybe alpacas and horses later.
What do you plan on doing once you become a CPA? Go to work for a big firm (great experience, tons of hours), industry or something else? I started my own practice when we bought this place, and work out of my home. I love it! That's something you might want to consider once you get some experience under your belt.
You will definitely need a lot of $$ to import those horses! I love the Egyptians-I think they are the most beautiful of all Arabians, and therefore all horses.
Nancy |
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Alaska farm girl
True Blue Farmgirl
123 Posts
dorothy
skagway
Alaska
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2006 : 4:30:06 PM
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Hi I just have a little bit of advice. If you are looking for horses for Idaho you should go back to idaho roots and get the appalosas. you will have alot of work keeping arabians warm. And as for the cows, you have far better tasting meat available to you with out the hassle of raising cows, you can get Elk out your back door if you have land. quote:
Originally posted by Alee
Hi Ladies!
I am only 2 years away from graduating from college and am starting to set some serious long term plans for my future.
This is what my boyfriend and I have talked about:
Within the next 10 years I would like to buy a small patch of land (where ever we end up). I would like to have a large garden patch- that much I have experience with-
However I would like to buy a cow and possible a bull- it depends. I would like to keep the cow as a milk cow and would like to have a cow or two to butcher each year as our own food source.
I also am planning on importing a breeding pair of Straight Egyptian Arabians.
So my question is this: How often should you breed a cow to keep her milk producing? I know you shouldn't milk while the calf is suckling as the calf needs the milk but I am not sure how long it is good to keep her producing after the calf is weaned. I am sure I will need to due much more research as the time for my little farm comes closer- but you ladies know much more than I.
Thanks
Alee
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A Farm of My Own: I need advice please |
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I need advice please
