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Barnyard Buddies:  Can we talk sheep?  |
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NatureNymph
True Blue Farmgirl
73 Posts
Tracy
Barrie
Ontario
Canada
73 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 10:27:08 AM
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I am very interesting in hearing more about sheep, their uses on the farm, markets for lambs and fleece and anything else.
I need to do some research on breeds and such. What breeds do you have or have had? (I am mainly interested in fleece for spinning).
Thanks,
"Everybody likes to go their own way--to choose their own time and manner of devotion." Jane Austen, Mansfield Park |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 11:47:19 AM
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I just have two Icelandic ewes right now..mother and daughter. I love them..and have had Icelandics (up to 10) for the past 8 years. I use them for wool and have sold lambs for meat (their meat is very good tasting I hear..we don't like the taste of lamb) I like that they are a primitive breed (no tail docking..they have naturally short tails) and they are a nice smallish size..easy to handle. They are pretty and have a nice double coat too..very useful. They have wonderful colors available. I love spinning their wool.
I have also had jacob, navajo churro and dorset cross sheep..but really like the Icelandic best of what I have had.
Jenny in Utah
Proud Farmgirl sister #24
Inside me there is a skinny woman crying to get out...but I can usually shut her up with cookies
http://www.auntjennysworld.blogspot.com/ visit my little online shop at www.auntjenny.etsy.com |
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oldfashioned girl
True Blue Farmgirl
2391 Posts
monica
oatman
az
USA
2391 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 12:12:43 PM
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Tracy, there is a neat website at www.sheep101.info/breedsT-V.html! They have an alphabetical index of different sheep! I would love to have some sheep someday. There is a sheep at the farmers market I go to that I am in love with! Grace would be a good one to ask!
Monica
farmgirls rule!
www.justducky48.etsy.com |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 1:42:24 PM
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Tracy: Sorry if this is a long post...but you asked!
On the farm, sheep are eaters, manure makers, wool growers and baby producers if you want that. They thrive on grass during the growing season and hay in the non-growing seasons.
Depends on what you want to raise but if you raise lambs, your options for marketing them are for meat, breeding stock, lawn mowers, pets, herding sheep for training dogs, etc. Direct-market locker lambs is another outlet. If you go with purebred varieties you might find a market for breeding stock, however, this requires some advertising and getting your name out there amongst sheep people so they know you have them--like going to shows or running ads, having a farm website.
Fleeces...well the world is your oyster there. Depending on how much time and effort (includes money) you want to put into it, you're going to have fleeces, a new batch, every year. You can keep it for yourself to spin or market through a regional wool pool if you have that available to you, or have them processed into rovings, yarns, etc and direct market them...or you can haul it to the dump. I know....gasp!!! But I've done it girls. I've done all of the above. 
If you're interested in spinning, I'd suggest a nice little spinner's flock...just a very few sheep (a fleece goes a long way baby) and don't even breed them unless you want more. Please get at least 2 together. They are flock animals and it's just not fair to have one alone. Buy some nice young ewes. They will live for a nice long time if the conditions are prime for them...if you want some lamb to eat, go ahead and get a ram and try breeding and lambing.
A spinner's flock could be lots of breeds...Border Leicester, Coopworth, Romney, Icelandic, Shetland, Finn...the list just goes on and on.
I have raised Suffolks but now raise Texel and Coopworth sheep (50 ewes) and the Coopworth have great fleeces but we are raising dual-purpose sheep, meat and wool so use Texels for beefiness in the carcasses. You're very wise to do some research and see what interests you. There are some good websites. Maryland Small Ruminant is a Google you should do...lots of sheep info there. I have found the best resources to be other producers. I know if you visit the local yarn shop here in our town, there are a couple of gals who raise sheep (spinners flocks) who have their information available at the store and would be a good place to start if I were looking to get a few sheep.
Good luck.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
Edited by - Jami on Sep 23 2008 1:43:35 PM |
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl
11303 Posts
kristin
chickamauga
ga
USA
11303 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 5:21:06 PM
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I have had Suffolk, Dorset, St.Croix. Suffolk and Dorset have to be sheared. (I've got a shearing stand for sale)
St. Croix is a hair sheep. Their wool falls off in spring. They look horrible for awhile, then have hair like a goat.
I just sold my Suffolk and St.Croix yesterday. I'll try to find some young ewes in the spring. I think I'd rather not shear. That's a big consideration when choosing a breed.
As for a ram, BEWARE of them!! They can be very evil. I really had no idea how evil a ram could be until I got one. I was ignorant and that's not a good thing to be around a ram. He was a Romonov( which BTW, are very prolific. Lots of babies) and had horns ( another consideration) and was nice for the first few weeks. I'd go out and feed him and the 2 bucks he was with and never had a problem or even a hint of trouble. One day I went out to feed and he just kind of backed up several feet. I remember thinking what the heck is he doing, when he reared up on his hind legs. Next thing I knew, he hit me in the stomach so hard it knocked the breath out of me! He tried to do it again and hit my hand. I whacked him in the head and ran.as fast as I could out of there. It took me a long time to go back out there to get eggs. I had to get one of those cattle prods after that. I was afraid my GDs would get in there one day and he'd kill them. So he had to go.
My advice for a ram is to borrow one!! Good luck |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 5:49:14 PM
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Jami is so right..I only breed my ewes now when I want more lambs...last year I didn't, and this year I havn't yet and most likely won't. If we were lamb-eaters (that sounds terrible..but I mean if we ate lamb meat) I would for sure breed them more often. I chose finally not to keep a ram on the place any more..after going through three rams who get aggressive or destructive when they get older I just prefer to keep ewes. Kristin is right...borrow one!! I kept one for years and hate that feeling of fear when you enter the pen, or the awful destruction...I had one ram who took out fences, knocked down sheds little by little and wasn't safe around kids at all. The last one I had was fine, but his wool was wirey, so he left too. (all three were different breeds..Icelandic, Jacob and churro)
Jenny in Utah
Proud Farmgirl sister #24
Inside me there is a skinny woman crying to get out...but I can usually shut her up with cookies
http://www.auntjennysworld.blogspot.com/ visit my little online shop at www.auntjenny.etsy.com |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 7:42:23 PM
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I think Jami gave you many considerations...and rams can be a big problem. I try never to enter their pens especially during breeding season. I have shetlands...wonderful hearty pets, some with single coats and some with double coats, white, black, gray, browns. I also have polypays, nice sheep, good spinning wool, easy to handle and easy lambers. I also have correidales in white and brown/black...gentle and easy to handle, a little larger than the polypays. Then there is the Oxfords...gentle but very big, I like to spin and work with some of the ewe's wool and others I am not so crazy about.
Good luck and let us know what you decide to get.
Sarita
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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therealshari
True Blue Farmgirl
235 Posts
Shari
Beryl
UT
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 08:58:22 AM
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From my personal perspective, be sure you arm yourself with as much "breed knowledge" as possible before talking to any breeder about buying your foundation stock.
Over the past three years, I've discovered that most "casual breeders" either don't know what they have, or want you to purchase so badly that they inadvertently misrepresent their breeds and the quality of their breeds. When you're a newbie who wants something, there's always folks who are happy to sell it to you.
I agree on the ram. We owned one, and got one breeding season from him before he got so aggressive he even charged the shearer. That was his last mistake. Within weeks, he went to auction. I figure I'm now saving over $400 a year by not having a ram, and can borrow (or rent for $10 per ewe per month) as good, if not better quality rams from a number of my neighbors.
We were told our sheep were black Merino/Suffolk crosses with emphasis on Merino. Unfortunately it's the other way around. There is very little Merino that is visible via the fleece quality. Now, we're very fortunate in that our ewes all give us at least twins, and in one case quads (she raises 3 with one being a preemie each time).
Our primary market is custom lamb, looking to the ethnic markets in Las Vegas, St. George and Cedar City. At this time, we utilize a custom butcher, but in time, will also offer "on-site slaughter" for our customers.
As for the fleece, I'm still researching our "optimal" market. In the meantime, to keep from hauling it to the dump, I'm selling each fleece, packed into a plastic garbage bag, as "Garden Mulch". Each one sells for $5.00, slightly less than the $6 it cost me to get each sheep sheared. Maybe next year I'll up my price to at least break even.
The manure is being used to improve our sandy soil, so we can raise more veggies and flowers. First we take care of our own needs, then we take the surplus veggies to our local Farmers' Market.
We have 7 ewes and will keep each ewe lamb until we reach a total of 10 ewes, as that is about as much as our "water right" will allow.
Shari Thomas
Who's giving serious thought (j/k) to changing "Four Country Gals" to "Ms McDonald's Farm" as we're now adding a preggie cow, due in early September. |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 12:38:18 PM
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I agree, buy from a reputable breeder. I think that holds true of any breeding stock animal. One thing I refuse to do is loan out/rent out rams, but I have friends who do this. We have a real strict health program on our farm and sheep don't leave and ever come back...less disease or illnesses spread that way. So, if it were me and I was wanting a few sheep for their fleeces only, I would still stick with a few ewes and just forget the ram scenario. You can buy bummer lambs from a large commercial flock for about $10 each and raise them for meat lambs or get them free sometimes...WAY cheaper and less stress than owning a ram.
I have anywhere from 4-6 rams at any given time and have few problems with them. But, that said, I am experienced with sheep and livestock and know that this isn't the "norm" for ram behavior. I take my well-trained border collie in with me if they get ram-bunctious (ha ha, pun!!) as a group especially during breeding season...but again, I carry a herding stick (pretty flexible plastic) and am not afraid to give a big whack on the nose if anyone even tries to think of taking a few steps back to come at me. The dog also does a nice "take hold" command that I use often and will nip them right in the nose and they take off and behave themselves.
It's interesting how many bad rams are out there...these Texel boys are really pretty nice. Have had one stinker out of about 10 rams so far.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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Beverley
True Blue Farmgirl
2707 Posts
Beverley
atlanta
Michigan
USA
2707 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 9:30:19 PM
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Wow what good info. I am looking on getting 2 ewes to start with and go from there. thanks for all the info..
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
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Tracey
True Blue Farmgirl
766 Posts
Tracey
State of Confusion
USA
766 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 10:43:34 PM
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Sheep are by far the best addition to the barnyard you can have. Some folks will say chicken, but I have nothing but bad luck with birds. Predators are a big issue as I've not got a house to lock them into at night.
Sheep, however, have never given me a lick of trouble (aside from escaping now and then) and have earned their keep in more ways than one.
1) Wool
2) Meat
3) Milk
I breed my ewes each year, sell a few locker lambs, put a couple in the freezer, have plenty of wool for spinning and milk for cheese or soap. The sale of a lamb pays for the feed of the ewe through the winter. Everything else is icing on the cake.
Take a Ride on the Wild Side!
http://mustangdiaries.bogspot.com |
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windypines
True Blue Farmgirl
4284 Posts
Michele
Bruce
Wisconsin
USA
4284 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 05:21:37 AM
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Someone told me that a wether will produce a nicer fleece then a ewe. Especially if you are using her for breeding. I do have one wether, and one ewe. With my two sheep they give me more then enough wool to keep me busy. Shetland and Border Leicester, is what they are. They are a cross.
Michele |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 07:17:26 AM
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I agree Tracey.
You have a nice cross for spinning fleeces. I have heard that about wethers also, but to be honest...a wether gets butchered around our house...can't produce much besides a fleece--gotta produce more than that around here, but for a little spinning flock one might be perfect.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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Tracey
True Blue Farmgirl
766 Posts
Tracey
State of Confusion
USA
766 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 11:19:27 AM
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If they're not needing that extra nutrition for breeding, it goes into their fleece, so yes, wethers do make nice fleeces. A friend of mine keeps one around as company for her one ram and he's got a very nice fleece.
Take a Ride on the Wild Side!
http://mustangdiaries.bogspot.com |
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NatureNymph
True Blue Farmgirl
73 Posts
Tracy
Barrie
Ontario
Canada
73 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 3:32:42 PM
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I am mostly interested in sheep for wool (and manure), but I figured a small breeding program and selling the resulting lambs (for meat) would bring in a bit more income to the farm.... I will have to really think about whether or not to own a ram. I will start with just ewe's (I was thinking 4 or 5) until I feel more confident.
I have also been thinking about an alpaca or two for fleece as well as sheep protection. I read they were good guards for a flock.
For the women who raise sheep for profit...can you tell me how profitable it is? I am not looking to make loads of money...just enough to make owning them worth while.
I have been very excited lately since focusing more on sheep, organic fruits and vegetables. We'll have chickens and eventually a dairy cow but I wanted something else...like something was missing. Until now I had no idea what I wanted to do with my farm. Even the primary research I have done has me excited about raising sheep. I had thought about them before and always come back to them as a good choice.
Thanks so much for your advice and expertise.
"Everybody likes to go their own way--to choose their own time and manner of devotion." Jane Austen, Mansfield Park |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 4:27:43 PM
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First you have to decide what you want to DO with the sheep. Check out the different breeds and DO speak to ALL the breeders you can before making your final decision. The other ladies have some very good advice here so consider their words carefully. You also might want to start with wethers ANYWAY because they are MUCH cheaper in ANY breed you choose, and, if you decide that's not the breed for you, or you don't want sheep after all, you won't be out a lot of money!
While I'm not as experienced as Jamie in the sheep biz, I have had my Babydolls (miniature Southdowns) for nearly 10yrs now, so HAVE learned a few things about sheep over the years. My ewes are on pasture 24/7 and thrive well without additionaly supplements, other than sheep minerals. Some years I give them grain for a week or two before the ram is put in, but this year they are a little on the "Porky" side, so we might just skip that grain. My rams are kept in a separate dry lot and fed clover/grass hay we grow ourselves. While not cheap to buy (prices range from $300 for wethers, up to $1,000 (for a breeding age BLACK or COLORED ewe), depending on what part of the country you are in) they are exceptionally EASY keepers-- and just TOO CUTE to boot!!!
There is a huge market for them right now-- mostly for Organic weed control, natural fertilizer and pets, but people are also becoming VERY interested in their fleeces. I've had people pull into the farm right off the road and ask WHAT kind of sheep they are and if they can buy the wool. (They certainly advertise themselves!!)
The rams are much more gentle and easier to handle than other sheep breeds, but they are also considerably smaller in size (no more than 24" at the shoulder) -- though there are exceptions. One of my buyers had a very MEAN little ram. He rammed the gates, his companion, the ewes, and he rammed THEM! He rammed EVERYTHING! Just a rotten creature. The ram they bought from me was very laid back and quite a gentle fella. I think the temperment of the parents plays a big roll in the personality to their offspring. I only have one ewe that's foul tempered, don't know WHY I keep her, but I do. Maybe because I had to help her into this world! And she WAS one of my FIRST lambs......
Anyway, I wish you luck on your quest-- and Please keep us posted!!! Hugs from another Tracy!!
PS I also have Jacobs. I LOVE their peronalities!! They are more like goats-- very friendly and personable, but they can be LOUD-- especially the ewes.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2008 : 09:54:14 AM
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Tracy (Canada), having a few sheep would supply you with a bit of extra money but I wouldn't expect it to be a big money maker for you. For one, you'll need to find your markets for lamb and fleeces both. I'm sure you can use the manure for your garden and flowerbeds, maybe even sell some if you had that market. Locker lambs are easy to sell once people who love lamb know you have them...but that's something you might have to work at to find these people. Same with fleeces or processed wool products like roving or yarn...gotta find those spinners and knitters!
If you want to do that, you're going to need a ram for your ewes. It would be best for you to get the ewes and purchase a ram who is unrelated and sell off the lambs each year. If you started with a couple of ewes and tried to keep replacement ewe lambs for more ewes to add to the flock, you'd have to get a new ram the next year (now there are 2 rams on the place) because you wouldn't want to breed fathers to daughters. We line-breed a lot but not fathers to daughters and I wouldn't recommend starting out doing that. So once you decide on your breeds for your ewes (you could try several breeds), ask those breeders you buy from about rams and where you could find a good one and go for it. Be prepared to have separate pens/pastures to keep the ram separated from the ewes unless you don't mind lambing willy-nilly. Although Tracy (California) has a real niche market and high-dollar sheep (which is really cool), I would imagine you can find some nice ewes much cheaper to start out with (of a different breed)...depending on if you want registered stock or not and depending on age, you could get into some nice ewes from $150-$200 each from a reputable breeder. If you wanted to just give it a go, you could buy aged ewes (4+ years) for less. I have seen white faced ewes listed in the Capital Press (ag newspaper) for as low as $80/head...lots of folks are getting out of sheep because of feed costs right now.
In addition to the above, all folks raising sheep need to have a scrapie flock identification number and that is something you setup through your state vet office. It's a free program but it is MANDATORY. I know people like to keep their heads in the sand about it, but it's just plain fact. To keep the entire US flock healthy, scrapie needs to be eradicated and this program is setup to work to that end. You seem like you do your homework about things, so that is one thing you'll want to look into. It's real easy to do and the ear tags are free.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2008 : 10:20:01 AM
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Tracy (California) brought up a really good point about pasture-raised, grass fed sheep. By the way, that's how we do it here too.
If you have pasture, you will realize a better profit but if you have to buy hay to feed, you aren't going to make any money raising lambs, not at the prices of hay right now. If you grow your own hay, maybe it would work, but if you're having to buy hay year-round, there is little way to pencil that out for a profit. The only way to make money on lambs that we've found is to lamb right before the pasture comes on in the spring and get them marketed before winter sets in. They won't gain much over the winter anyhow on dry feed, not like on fresh pasture.
Your feed program will determine your profit along with the marketability of your sheep products (quality of fleece and meat.)
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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NatureNymph
True Blue Farmgirl
73 Posts
Tracy
Barrie
Ontario
Canada
73 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2008 : 3:21:42 PM
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This is all great info...exactly what I was looking for. How would I search out markets for lambs and fleece? Or is that mostly from networking from other farmers in the area?
I plan to go to farmer's market with my fruits and veggies, and would like to market my raw/washed carded fleece and my hand spun wool there as well.
I agree that grass fed is the way to go and we are searching out a property with this in mind. Organic is definitely my thing so I have no problems there. Our property would also have a pre-existing barn unless we can get a good deal that would leave us enough money to build our own. We want to be as self sufficient as possible but I also want to seek out barters with neighbours for Hay etc.
I will have to check with our province to find out more about the health regulations. I am very much on board with preventing any nasty illnesses that could affect our investment (flock).
Thanks again ladies for all this wonderful info.
"Everybody likes to go their own way--to choose their own time and manner of devotion." Jane Austen, Mansfield Park |
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Tracey
True Blue Farmgirl
766 Posts
Tracey
State of Confusion
USA
766 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2008 : 6:49:14 PM
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Networking is key. Check with your extension agent and see if they can help connect you with other small farmers in your region. Also, Local Harvest online and put in your zip code; that will give you names of other farms in your area and more people to network with.
Take a Ride on the Wild Side!
http://mustangdiaries.blogspot.com |
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Barnyard Buddies: Can we talk sheep? |
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Can we talk sheep?
