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Keeping in Touch:  Danger of Extinction  |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 08:37:18 AM
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Wow, I came in from the little bitty garden just in time. This morning I decided to spend some time in the garden first because if I'm going to be posting about gardening I ought to be doing some of it every day!
Dawn, I wondered when this issue would come up. That was why I asked early on how we're going to define heirloom. Robbie and I were talking about heirloom vs. organic and I said you don't have to use heirloom seed to be organic - that has to do with the growing process (and I've been assuming that the seeds aren't genetically engineered also but I could be wrong on that). Heirloom is inherently (sp?) organic but then later I realized that isn't necessarily so because you can plant heirloom seed but use commercial pesticides and fertilizer in the growing process.
You are not alone in the "marital discord" area, Dawn. Even though Robbie and I are basically on the same page, he said last night that he was keeping the seed from his cucumber because he knows they're organic and he's going to grow them again next year. Of course my response was "aren't we planning for the future with all heirloom plants?" To which he nicely but firmly said he was going to save his cucumber seed and grow it again next year. I kept my mouth shut (for once) and we'll revisit the issue later. (After 13 years of marriage I'm learning when NOT to push an issue.)
There are many couples who disagree philosophically on major issues but have a wonderful marriage. I can't remember who the political couple is but they're both in congress - one's a republican and one's a democrat - still married after many years as far as I know.
I remember reading or watching somewhere a farmer was talking about organic vs. conventional and that he was told you can't make a living farming organically. He said he gets smaller yields because organic farming is more time/labor intensive but he gets more $$ per pound so he's making it pay for him.
On the Future of Food video they have someone at a Slow Food meeting talking about how expensive it is to buy organic. He made the point that we're asking the wrong question. It shouldn't be why is organic so expensive but why is conventional so cheap. Just what are we paying for. I could go on and on but it might be helpful - if your DH is open to it - to get the video and watch it together. Whole Foods might have it in stock when you go there but they don't have the one with the college-level curriculum. If you want that one you'd need to order it from the site.
That's my 2-cents on conventional vs organic as it relates to marriage. Hopefully it was some help.
Now, moving on to how we define heirloom. Your farmer friend is missing one point about heirlooms - they are open-pollinated. Nature does the pollination, not man. People don't cross-pollinate heirlooms, bugs, insects, wind, etc. does, which is why to maintain purity you shouldn't grow different varieties close together. (I just learned that from the Future of Food video.) My dad was a wonderful farmer (will be posting on that next) but he wasn't an organic one. Chemicals began to be introduced into farming after WWII because they were, in good conscience, believed to be beneficial and not harmful. The problem is we've backed ourselves into a corner and it's going to take small farmers to get us out of it. Manufacturers produce what sells. The demand for organic produce is on the rise big time. One of the problems is that big business is buying out the small farmers and technically growing things organically but not morally (that's the best word I could think of at the moment). For example, they may grow lettuce according to the USDA standards but if they don't rotate their crops and let some of the land lie fallow for a season, it isn't truly organic.
Which brings me to your pumpkins. If you grew them in the same plot of land that you used last year, the first planting may have used up the nutrients they needed so they weren't available this year. Just a thought. You may already know this. Crop rotation is important. I learned that from my dad and from the Rodale Organic Gardening book I mentioned in an earlier post.
On a personal note regarding our seed-saving: I will want seeds from plants that have been grown organically since that's where I see my future going. I agree that each person's garden is their own and they should be able to grow their plants however they want. Amy Grace, I believe this would fall in your area, not? [seed-swapping: what worked, what didn't, how I grew them] (My aunt used to say that all the time.)
And now to come full circle: since we're going to have freedom in how we garden, that may be the route for you and hubby to take, Dawn. Could you have your own area to farm organically with the heirloom seeds and hubby have the rest? It would be an interesting experiment..........
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 08:44:36 AM
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In the For What It's Worth department, I thought I'd share this with you all. I'm in a small group at church doing Beth Moore's study of the temple built by the Israelite. She brings out the point that the temple is where God met with the people. God's original plan was to walk with His people in the Garden of Eden ("in the cool of the day") so that was truly the original temple/sanctuary. We have a blog for our class and here is my post for that day:
After watching the session 1 video, I was amazed at how the Garden of Eden ties so closely to the tabernacle. Gardening has a special place in my heart this summer. Robbie has his first real vegetable garden since my dad passed away six years ago. I have my first flower and herb garden ever.
My dad was the best gardener I've ever known. He could grow anything and at times when others couldn't because of the weather conditions. Ever since I was little one of my favorite scenes was watching my dad preparing to go work in the garden, hoe in hand, hat on head and a whistle on his lips - always a hymn. He was so close to God in his garden. They talked a lot out there.
Leviticus 26:12 says, "I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be My people." Just like He did in the garden with Adam and Eve. Just like He did with my dad. I wrote down the following quote Beth used from the professor: "...the manual labor of gardening itself would be a priestly activity since it would be maintaining the upkeep and order of the sanctuary." Isn't God amazing? Is it any wonder that so many people (myself included) feel closest to God when they're outside enjoying nature?
My aunt, another wonderful gardener and my father's sister, had this verse on a plaque in her flower garden:
The kiss of the sun for pardon,
The song of the birds for mirth,
One is nearer God's heart in a garden
Than anywhere else on earth.
- Dorothy Frances Gurney
Just wanted to share that with you because that's my history.
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 08:45:24 AM
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Dawn,
My hubby was where your hubby is a few years ago. They know, what they have been taught. Very well meaning men, great farmers that just get to see things through a new lens and it may not happen overnight, which by the way doesn't mean he isn't proud of you. With a heart like yours, are you kidding me!
I think if we Mavens focus first on our world,our garden and our farmgirl community by growing heirlooms,trading, reading great teaching books, become "experts", then the "conversations" that follow will be welcomed as we will have the "facts" to back us up. I think "worrying" about "the big companies" is certainly what fuels us, it makes us driven to change.. but even David before slaying his giant.. "gathered the stones"... right.. So my vote (although I am not sure if I get one) would be.... "let's gather our stones" so to speak...
Alee~ Girlfriend you absolutley ROCK~ Great info.. and I agree with you 100000%.
I love this group, there is so much energy and knowledge and encouragement.
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl #185
http://farmchicksfarm.blogspot.com/
"Despite the gardener's best intentions, Nature will improvise. ~Michael P. Garafalo
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 08:48:46 AM
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Karen,
I went through that study last Spring (awesome) thanks for the reminder....
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl #185
http://farmchicksfarm.blogspot.com/
"Despite the gardener's best intentions, Nature will improvise. ~Michael P. Garafalo
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 08:57:15 AM
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Dawn,
As just a "fun" side note, have you ever read the book by Bruce Wilkinson called "the dream giver"?, He talks about all of us being created with a dream inside of us, yet few of us walk through because of fear, or what he calls, Border bullies" those well meaning, loves in our lives.. Friends, family, spouses... who when we begin to "break out" feel THIER borders rumble.... and change coming... and maybe change for them is scary, or the timing for their world to change is not right, to whatever...............I didn’t step into my dream for a very long time.. Because I always reacted to my families and friends reactions to my change....
I can tell you with no wavering.... once I was willing to let their fears, stay theirs and I did what I feel I was "called" to do..........we are all happier.
This may not apply to you... but just in case it may... thought I would share... if you don’t have the book or haven't read it and may want to, let me know and I will send it out :)
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl #185
http://farmchicksfarm.blogspot.com/
"Despite the gardener's best intentions, Nature will improvise. ~Michael P. Garafalo
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:00:47 AM
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Alee, thank you for doing all that research! I'm assuming the edit points are yours(?). I didn't read through the whole thing. Will print it off and read later but do appreciate so much your time and input.
Annika, thanks for the list, girl! I would add "Rodale's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening: The complete guide to natural and chemical-free gardening" to the list (no author but published by DK Publishing). Also these books will count toward a Farm Kitchen badge:
"Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" by Barbara Kingsolver
“Omnivore’s Dilemma” by Michael Pollan
“In Defense of Food” by Michael Pollan
And then it the "if it was a snack it woulda bit me department" MaryJane's Ideabook, Cookbook, Lifebook (remember in the beginning part where she talks about the governor's reaction to the wheat farming)
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311
Oh my gosh I just re-read this. Can you tell I was hungry? I have lunch heating in the little oven so I should return to"normal" soon. I meant: if it was a snake it woulda bit me. I just crack myself up sometimes. |
Edited by - LivingWell4You on Sep 17 2008 09:57:15 AM |
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Annika
True Blue Farmgirl
5602 Posts
Annika
USA
5602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:07:25 AM
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Dawn *hug* sorry about the shook up morning that you had. We can't take on the world first second out of the gate, but we can do our best and save some heirlooms that would other wise be dust. I am realistic enough to know that it will take a LOT of people standing together on an issue to make a big difference. I hope that that said we can go on with protecting endangered heirlooms as well as push our case a little forward. It's going to take patience and a lot of study. I'm just trying to be realistic here. I get all excited about a possibility and get my head in the clouds, but I know that we can all make a difference. I still see what we are doing as viable and am excited about it. My Sweetie and I have been together twenty years and don't agree on everything either.
Annika
Farmgirl sister #13
Mud Hen Queen
http://innermountainmudhens.wordpress.com/
http://panzymoon.wordpress.com/
http://panzymoonsgarden.blogspot.com/ |
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Annika
True Blue Farmgirl
5602 Posts
Annika
USA
5602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:16:26 AM
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Oh Duh! *knocks on own head* Thank you Karen! I was hoping that you could help me think. My brother has been in the hospital and my mind isn't completely focused on all the same thing right now. Thank you...the life book should have been first on my list! Can't wait til MJ comes out with the garden book that I hope she is going to write...that will be SO inspiring!
Been getting all of the web sites together this morning. Working to get them all posted today if possible...boy do I have a lot of them!
Annika
Farmgirl sister #13
Mud Hen Queen
http://innermountainmudhens.wordpress.com/
http://panzymoon.wordpress.com/
http://panzymoonsgarden.blogspot.com/ |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:16:34 AM
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Rene, you are so right about good men, just not seeing the whole picture. One of the things that really attracted me to Robbie was his concern about the environment and that he recycled. I found out after we were married that he recycled soda cans for the money, not for the environment. It's been a long road. By the same token, he's been more conscientious of the food he eats. I fought him kicking and screaming until I read Dr. Don Colbert's book "What Would Jesus Eat?" After reading how white flour is made I haven't eaten another slice of white bread. I'd love to say that we eat only wheat pasta but that's an acquired taste for both of us so we mixed it half-n-half with the white and we're working on increasing the percentage. I think we're almost there because we've found some flavored wheat pasta that we really like. But I digress........(I think)
For J, it isn't just about how he farms, it's about his heritage and his livelihood. I truly believe the vast majority of farmers are doing what they believe is best and don't realize the possible health consequences down the road. That's why Alee's research is so great. I could write a ton just on the endocrine disruptor issue.
We all have felt the change in ourselves after finding this site. MaryJane's experiences and writings have touched something deep in us. That's why this thread has been on fire. It goes deep in our souls, touching the generations before us and those to come after us. It's strong, it's true, it's undeniable.
Now we're really getting somewhere.
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:24:15 AM
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Annika, so sorry to hear about your brother. How long has he been in the hospital? What's going on? Any details you want to fill in would be appreciated. And I will definitely be praying for him.
I've been camping out on this post so much that I hardly know anything else that's going on in MaryJaneWorld. I did to a quick look-see last night and found out that Frannie (Kentucky) has thyroid cancer and Frannie from Texas is supposed to have surgery for a blocked carotid artery.
I need to get "out" more.
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:25:15 AM
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MaryJane, any plans for a gardening book? We could sure use one of your treasures.
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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deeredawn
True Blue Farmgirl
2306 Posts
Dawn
Cordova
TN
USA
2306 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:28:33 AM
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Jerry just came in the house to tell me "bye" and found me crying. He's on his way to a Combine Demo Derby...boys.... anyhow, he wanted to make me realize that us mavens may have our goals crossed. So answer me this? What is YOUR goal with this? I personally want to grow and supply heirloom food. I want to do it as NATURALLY as possible. I cant guarantte organic, because of product used in garden 2-3 years ago. I will fertilize with chicken poop, and llama dung. I will use composting as well since I just built it.
As far as my pumpkin patch goes, we do crop rotation. Just the victim of Mother Nature I suppose....
As far as organic goes: I disagree with the farmer. I DO think it's profitable and willbe even more so in the near future.
My farm & Mkt is MY BABY. I dreamed it, I built it and I market it. Jerry does the bullwork. He has NO say so on what I grow or how I grow it. What he does at "The Farm" is the business of that owner. I guess we will agree to disagree...
My concern is the local grower. I honestly feel that if I can generate enough local interest to grow heirloom and buy local, it will catch on and spread to other rural areas. If we are all doing this, it will have a ripple affect. I, like Alee, want taste, and wholesomeness to my food, not a "mouthful of pulp and water"!
Geez, my hubby really "p'd" me off this morning!
Dawn #279
MJ's Heirloom Mavens/Mother Hen
http://harvestthymefarm.blogspot.com
"I figure if a girl wants to be a legend, she should go ahead and be one!"...Calamity Jane |
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deeredawn
True Blue Farmgirl
2306 Posts
Dawn
Cordova
TN
USA
2306 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:38:19 AM
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Wow, we are all posting at the same time!
Rene: I'd LOVE to borrow that book. I am a very compassionate and passionate person. I can be so determined that I forget other things. But I do feel a "pull" here. Cant explain it, it just is....
Annika: thinking of you & your brother in this time of need.
Karen: Do you even know how much I love you?? Thank you for the theology. The older I get, the more I find comfort from HIM... (and you know I was NOT raised that way...)
Actually I love you all! man, I am weepy today!
Dawn #279
MJ's Heirloom Mavens/Mother Hen
http://harvestthymefarm.blogspot.com
"I figure if a girl wants to be a legend, she should go ahead and be one!"...Calamity Jane |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:53:01 AM
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Dawn, weepiness from PMS or PMJ (Powerful MaryJane)?
So much of what ya'll are writing is touched on in that Future of Food video. When I was watching it yesterday, I thought "We all need together one night and watch this." Then I realized just how far apart we are - some of us anyways. I think it would be a good one to have playing in the background at Harvest Thyme Farms, especially some of the special features.
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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Annika
True Blue Farmgirl
5602 Posts
Annika
USA
5602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:54:01 AM
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I have loved plants since I could crawl. I have always wanted to have something to do with plants that was meaningful and fulfilling, but life kept throwing other things in my way. Since finding out about MaryJane and her way of life and everything, I have been interested in doing something heirloom and organic and with native plants to boot. Since before this entire Heirloom Mavens thread popped up, I have been getting more and more interested in possibly owning a green house one day in the near future. Now I know that I want to grow and protect heirlooms as well as endangered local native plants...I would like to do it organically as possible. I am excited about the heirloom seed saving and hopefully we can go forward in educating others about the joy of heirlooms and in non-GM foods. I am personally behind the slow food movement and against the dangers of GM foods. But I would be happy if we just saved heirlooms from extinction for now. Want to belong with a group of people that think like I do. I'm tired of food tasting like insipid pulp, so I'm focusing personally on a more raw, heirloom, authentic life and seed saving fulfils this part of me that is a preserver nicely.
I hope I wasn't too long winded and vague
Annika
Farmgirl sister #13
Mud Hen Queen
http://innermountainmudhens.wordpress.com/
http://panzymoon.wordpress.com/
http://panzymoonsgarden.blogspot.com/ |
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deeredawn
True Blue Farmgirl
2306 Posts
Dawn
Cordova
TN
USA
2306 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:55:27 AM
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Oh, I'm sure its PMJ.... I'm still reeling from joining this sisterhood! Karen can you believe we've been here for only 3 months?
Dawn #279
MJ's Heirloom Mavens/Mother Hen
http://harvestthymefarm.blogspot.com
"I figure if a girl wants to be a legend, she should go ahead and be one!"...Calamity Jane |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 09:58:58 AM
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Dawn, can you believe this thread is only a week old and we're on page 18????
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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deeredawn
True Blue Farmgirl
2306 Posts
Dawn
Cordova
TN
USA
2306 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:20:00 AM
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Point well taken.
Annika: I couldnt have said it better.
C-ya round girls. I got things to do. Will be back tomorrow before I leave town - although I'm sure I will hi-jack my dads computer to see whats brewing!
HAve a great day!
Dawn #279
MJ's Heirloom Mavens/Mother Hen
http://harvestthymefarm.blogspot.com
"I figure if a girl wants to be a legend, she should go ahead and be one!"...Calamity Jane |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:22:05 AM
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Dawn- I think you husband probably has good intent behind his words, but he just hasn't caught the bug yet. I know growing organic can be profitable if you have the right market, and as one of our sisters pointed out- as people become more informed and more health conscious, that critical market will grow each year.
Here is something to say to your husband "If I grow tomatoes, why do you care how I grow them or what seed variety I use? If it doesn't matter to you, but it does to me...shouldn't I then make the decision?"
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.awarmheart.com
Please come visit Nora and me on our blog: www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
Put your pin on the farmgirl map! www.farmgirlmap.blogspot.com |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:24:05 AM
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OK.. New favorite (PMJ)... I laughted SOOOO hard~ what a kick.. Dawn send me your mailing address and I will send you the book. Hey, also what an amazing man you have.. I am glad that he is willing to have the conversation.. and that fact that he things we are miss guided.. well he wouldnt be the first man that was "wrong" LOL.... I think you are rattling his "border" baby~~~
I know the "PULL" I get that. The beauty of life and marriage (if it is done right) is that we get to do what we do until we know better.. Just because you are leading your family in the journey, certainly doesn't make you wrong.. nor your hubby wrong for being where he is, there is a reason that we women connect to this stuff.. we are the ones mostly putting things on the table, we worry naturally about the health and welfare of our kids and those that we love. We naturally wonder if we are doing the very best.
I certainly hear the conversation (having been in the crop Insurance industry),
and having friends that are high up in companies like Syngenta and having a farming husband that has his MA from an Ag college like WSU that is heavily funded by Montesano and others..... but even those land grant colleges are having second thoughts...
Check out www.cultivatingsuccess.org this is a WSU (washington state Univercity) website and they arent the only one.. the info that your hubby has and mine and have been indoctrinated with is in part OLD info, and tag lines and marketing strategies... EVEN the Univercities are re framing farming.
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl #185
http://farmchicksfarm.blogspot.com/
"Despite the gardener's best intentions, Nature will improvise. ~Michael P. Garafalo
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:27:36 AM
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Oh my gosh...........I'm still cracking myself up over "if it'd been a snack it woulda bit me." Shoot, if it's been a snack I woulda ate it!!! DUH!
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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Annika
True Blue Farmgirl
5602 Posts
Annika
USA
5602 Posts |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:38:41 AM
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I think the PMJ needs to be a MAVENS t-shirt :)
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl #185
http://farmchicksfarm.blogspot.com/
"Despite the gardener's best intentions, Nature will improvise. ~Michael P. Garafalo
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:44:34 AM
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Hey, Teresa Sue, if you have a spare minute, wanna work up a PMJ T-shirt design???
You guys crack me up!
God bless -
Karen
Farmgirl Sista #311 |
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Annika
True Blue Farmgirl
5602 Posts
Annika
USA
5602 Posts |
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Keeping in Touch: Danger of Extinction |
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Danger of Extinction
