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Entrepreneurship:  Looking for advice  |
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jamie
Farmgirl in Training
33 Posts
jamie
33 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 07 2004 : 2:10:48 PM
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Hello to all of my wonderful farmgirl friends! I have really been enjoying reading all of the posts. I am seeking advice, comments, wisdom from everyone out there reading this and especially those that have taken the leap of faith to leave the city and head for the country to make a living.
I am currently working as a veterinary tech (animal nurse) making a good salary but living in a moderately populated area. My husband and I have the chance to go back and take over my parents farm in three years as no one else in my family is interested and my dad is wanting to slow down. It is more than just a farm to me as I'm sure that many of you can relate. It's the only place that feels like home and I feel most at peace there. So you're saying, what's the problem? Well, the problem is that it is a very rural area with no opportunities for me to find a job off the farm as a vet tech. I have been considering going through vet school to become a doctor but I am concerned about the additional debt of student loans and the time that it will demand away from the farm and family. We don't have children yet but it is in the plans later on. I am concerned about whether I will have to supplement our farm income with a second job. Something else I really want to know is how expensive is it to pay for your own health insurance, etc. when you're self employed? I would love to be able to come up with a successful small farm business like Mary Jane but I don't know what I could do. We would be living in a very rural farming community in Montana with not much as far as tourists, etc.
Please, fellow farmgals, if anyone has any advice or ideas for me I would be much appreciated. My heart tells me to go but my brain gets in the way. As much as I love it there I know that we have to be able to financially get by and small family farming these days is so hard.
Thanks in advance,
Jamie |
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cecelia
True Blue Farmgirl
497 Posts
cecelia
new york
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2004 : 2:29:09 PM
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Follow your heart, but use your brain too! Years ago there was a 40+ acre former farm in our family; the person who owned it died without a will, so the property had to be sold. I cannot stand to drive past it now, as it now has a number of house on it. I would so have liked to have that property, but at the time I had no say, or money, etc. I could have turned it into a personal organic farm, etc. as at the time I had a good job, which although I hated it, would have provided me with the means. If I had the chance that you have now, I would have done a lot of research to properly plan the move. I have in the past been held back by a fear to take a chance, because for a long time I was single, and was afraid I wouldn't be able to go it alone, without health insurance, etc. You know what - I don't entirely regret my decisions now, but I do see that I could have done things a lot differently back then. You are lucky you don't have to go it alone. I can't give you specifics about cost of insurance, etc. but you should be able to research that. Can you possibly get a job with a vet in the rural area? Depending on your age maybe you could go back to school, but you'd have to decide if it would be worth it. Perhaps you could use your experience, etc. and turn it into a second career, writing perhaps? Do you have a rural farm/extension service you could get advice from? I'd like to give you more concrete advice, but I don't know enough about your situation, the area, etc. to comment more. But being "older" I find myself more willing to say go with your heart!
Cecelia
ce's farm |
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Clare
True Blue Farmgirl
2173 Posts
NC WA State
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2004 : 3:12:11 PM
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Dearest Jamie, I understand your dilemma. My brother and his family recently decided to quit farming, which broke all of our hearts, as that has been the basis of all our lives. But they were beaten down by the day to day of the new economy and tired of not making any money over the last few years. So I more than understand the depth of your questions.
Things that you need to consider are if your father is farming organically now or not, and if not, do you desire to transition to organic? In my state this takes 3 years to become certified, so that is a lengthy time of questionable yields and profits. Will you need to take out an operating loan? And a loan for the land? Those are the kickers in todays economy. If yes to either or both, start checking with the banks in the area now to see what the parameters are. You do not want to arrive ready to tackle this lifestyle and get a huge wake up call from the bank.
How do your parents provide for health insurance now? That same option should be available to you. There's always the Farm Bureau membership that offers many programs, and your average insurance company that insures the farm and the equipment should offer a health insurance option, too. Start making inquiries.
Does your husband have farming experience? If not, he needs to get into some type of mentorship program or take some ag classes at the community college to get the full scope of what is reality these days about farming. You were raised there, but he may need to get up to speed with you on this aspect. Will he mind being isolated...or at least not near a town and cultural options? Don't forget the psychological aspects. Health is more than just the physcial.
As far as your income or lack thereof... talk to your mother and grandmother about how they managed the household, etc. While you're in town now, take some gardening classes, learn to perserve foods, take some cooking classes that use whole foods, etc. Gather up as much practical experience as you can in advance. Do you have a hobby that you could market on the internet, such as the hobbies we discuss here? Could you do consignment piece work to take to shops in the larger cities? Is there a grange or community center that people gather at where they hold seasonal events that you could market your creations from? OR- how about having your own natural animal health care service? You may or may not have to be licensed in MT to do that, but it might be worth the inquiry. If you're not experienced with large animals, now would be the time to explore this and learn. Vet school is lengthy and pricey. Before you incur the debt, I would explore other options first.
Be creative!!! Offer farmstays... city people eat that up... but make sure you are properly insured as they aren't the most practical group. 
Is there a chamber of commerce in a nearby community that you can get local information from to see what is out there as far as off the farm options? Sometimes we live in a community so long that we are oblivious to the most basic ideas. Explore, ask questions, spend your vacation times there in the summer. That would be like an in depth work program. Go during harvest and experience the hard work involved. Go back for Christmas and experience the winter. Do as much for yourselves to prepare for this as you can. That way, if you can endure the busy, hard and frustrating times, you know you can make it.
I understand your need to return. We all have it, and I was also frustsrated that I couldn't step up to the plate and purchase land and continue the cycle, as was Cecelia. But the reality of today is not always what we would like it to be. Your best defense Jamie, is to be as informed and educated as you can on all aspects of this venture. You have to be flexible and willing to learn new and different ways of doing things to compete in today's economy. Once you've done all your homework, then sit down with your husband and make a pros and con list. It will become clear to you then, what you emotionally know now. I think the pros will win, but your lifestyle is in for some compromises..........which I'm sure you are aware of and willing to compensate for.
The Big Sky is waiting for you, Jamie. I'm pretty darn sure of it. 
Gardener, Stitcher, Spiritual Explorer and Appreciator of all Things Natural |
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bheki
Farmgirl at Heart
2 Posts
Ohio
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2004 : 3:56:43 PM
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Hi Jamie,
Sounds like your heart has never left the family farm.
All of the advice you're getting here is right on the mark. Also, go straight to the source on this and talk to your parents about the farm and have them explain the farm's books to you. (If they haven't already.) Look at what's currently being produced and how much it costs to produce it. Look at the machinery costs. Is the machinery included in the farm sale? What kind of shape is it in? Is it still being paid for? A brand new tractor that is on the small side runs about $36,000. Then there's the implements: plow, disc, planter. Harvester? Depending on the size, let's just use an easy $100,000 number. Taxes? Kind of step out of the fact that it is the family farm and look at it purely from a "buying a business" point of view. By asking about insurance, you've already started to look at it like that but go even further. As far as the vet tech/vet issue is concerned, is that your dream? We use one of the vet techs from our vet's office for farm sitting. We had an excellent vet for our horses but it was obvious when she was burned out on shoving her family aside to go take care of yet another emergency. I used to work outside the home or off the farm, but the farm absolutely devours my time. But, that's what I choose. I love the farm and everything that I do here is for me and my family. This also depends on the farm you are looking at. In addition to looking at the farm and trying to figure out a way to make it profitable, consider what you WANT to do. That all has to match up. After a couple of rounds of crops on our own farm and not making any money, we, too, are looking at alternatives to put together a new plan for our farm. We have seen first hand that the old family farm can no longer play by the same business plan as the big commercial farms. Oh and how is the house on the farm you're considering? Is it up to date? Indoor plumbing, insulation, good roof, and the all important HEAT. It may sound silly but if you don't have it, it makes things harder.
Hope some of this is good food for thought. Keep us all posted. |
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Sherries Farm
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Sherrie
Graham
WA
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2004 : 7:06:46 PM
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Jamie...everyone has given great advice. I can't give you much in the "farm" area. But I can add my two cents on finances. Save, save, save. If you have three years to make the move, figure out the very base living expenses to "just" get buy, then you can add in the "in case" things and start saving you dollars for the move.
I just read an article in the BackHome magazine, July/August 2004 issue title "In Basic Style" by Anne Coray. The best line she wrote in the article was "My general philosophy is if I don't need it, I don't buy it". That's the best advice that I have read and have heard from others.
Best of luck and keep us posted in how everything goes.
Sherrie
"When you care enough, you make it yourself."
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n/a
deleted
57 Posts
Judith
Rockford
IA
57 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2004 : 07:23:35 AM
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| Your getting all wonderful advice! And, yes you have to follow your heart besides your head and wallet. I like the idea of farm sitting. I work with a woman that grooms pets, training period was not long. She also "babysits" small animals. She is not yet licensed to board animals. |
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Kathy A.
True Blue Farmgirl
116 Posts
Kathy
Utah
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2004 : 1:39:43 PM
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Hello Jamie, I'm so glad you posted this topic. Many of us can hear and feel your dilemma. You have received such good feedback it gives me chicken-skin! You need to know about the website http://www.newfarm.org/index.shtml be sure to go through the archives- 1000 stories- These are stories about people like all of us here, making their dreams work, some are in Montana. I don't know just how isolated you will be if you are 50 miles from the nearest small town my thoughts won't help you. My suggestions are these- Give your vet-school idea serious thought. I have a friend in Wyoming who is in a very rural area and has a thriving vet business. I think even a small animal vet has many opportunities in rural areas. Grammaj mentioned pet grooming I live near a town of 10,000 there are 2 pet groomers and both are doing extremely well. You could probably step right into this as a side business. Also consider all the points already taken about -organic-This is huge, and it's only going to get bigger, There is a demand for it, the only thing I could add here is maybe in the next 3 years you could get really savvy about marketing. Theres a lot of possibilities here. Perhaps you could use the web. to sell and ship out what you produce on your farm if it just is'nt feasible to take things to a local farmers market ect. Keep posting we hear ya.... many of us are still working on our own dreams.
Clare I have wanted to thank you for posting the- new farm- website and have not done so yet. I have spend hours at that site and I've hardly touched all the info. that is available there. THANK YOU!
Farmgirl/gardener-Potter/Poet |
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Clare
True Blue Farmgirl
2173 Posts
NC WA State
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2004 : 2:14:57 PM
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You are welcome, Kathy! I've not taken the time to explore the newfarm.org website, but it certainly looks like it's full of helpful information.
Gardener, Stitcher, Spiritual Explorer and Appreciator of all Things Natural |
Edited by - Clare on Aug 14 2004 11:54:13 AM |
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jamie
Farmgirl in Training
33 Posts
jamie
33 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2004 : 9:37:21 PM
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My goodness! I don't even know where to begin to thank all of you for your wonderful advice. I know that it is not an easy decision to make but all of the comments and advice were so helpful. I guess I should have been a little more specific on our situation but I didn't want to bog you all down with so many details. To answer some of the questions - my husband and I are relatively young I suppose (both 28)and my husband has a ton of ag experience. He has worked on farms since he was probably about 10 but got serious about it at the age of 16 when he went to an agricultural high school. He is from Denmark so the education system is quite different. Anyhow, it has been his dream and passion to farm and to have it any other way would be to take away a big piece of his soul I believe. As far as my family's farm, it is several thousand acres and unfortunately my dad does not do it organically. It is not a matter of not wanting to grow healthier products but more of a fear of not getting the yields and profits by switching to organic. Believe me, I'm working on it. At the minimum I would want to have about 10-20 acres of my own to play with and grow organic produce, have livestock, etc. As far as the community where I grew up, the whole county only has about 2500 people. Now do you see the problem? Hardly even enough people to put together a farmer's market, etc. This is where I start running into questions about what I can do as a potential rural farmer's wife. It is a fairly isolated area. The nearest town for groceries is only 15 minutes away but the nearest town with 10,000 people is 150 miles away. I am still stuck about a career as a vet. As one person mentioned, their vet is so overworked and burnt out that she has to be away from her family. I don't want that to happen plus I want to be active on the farm. I hate to keep repeating myself but there has to be a solution for all of us women that want to live and work on a farm and be able to create a successful career also.
I want to mention also that it really made me feel empowered to read the comments. It was mentioned about preparing myself in the next few years by taking a gardening class, preserving foods, etc. I am going to do exactly that. The thing is ladies is that I don't know how you all are but I have SO many interests and too little time. I am interested in gardening, crafts, knitting, pottery, photography, animals, outdoors, homemaking, and the list goes on. Selling my products over the internet was a great idea although there already seems to be so much competition that you really have to be able to market your product. I also like the idea of having farm stays. I really feel like the more technologically advanced our society gets the more people yearn for a simpler way of life. Well, I'll close it for now but again I really appreciate all of your advice. I knew I could count on all of you. I would love to hear about any other comments or suggestions that you might have.
Thanks again,
Jamie |
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Clare
True Blue Farmgirl
2173 Posts
NC WA State
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2004 : 06:16:10 AM
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Hi Jamie! So glad you've found our ideas helpful. I was pretty sure you'd be miles away from any town, as that is just the way Montana is. I am reassured by your husband's farming experience and feel that this is a huge plus. Just remember the old saying - Where there's a will there's a way.... and also know that when you are prepared and have the right attitude, things begin to flow...and fall into place. Great Gobs of Grand Success to you both!
Gardener, Stitcher, Spiritual Explorer and Appreciator of all Things Natural |
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jamie
Farmgirl in Training
33 Posts
jamie
33 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2004 : 07:38:42 AM
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Hello farmgals,
I just wanted to update you on our situation a little. I have accepted a position as a veterinary nurse much closer to the family farm. Currently we live 16 hours away (Wisconsin) from my family in Montana. We will only be 3 hours away which will make it nice to run home for a weekend now and then. Once we get settled I am also hoping to be able to take some gardening and craft classes. I used to always be busy with crafts as a kid with my grandmother. She taught me to crochet, braid rugs, etc. Does anyone have experiences with selling their crafts and homemade goods at craft fairs? I have been thinking that would be a really nice additional income for me when we take over the farm in three years. What do you think? Any ideas appreciated.
Thanks again,
Jamie |
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Clare
True Blue Farmgirl
2173 Posts
NC WA State
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2004 : 09:52:49 AM
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Jamie!! Congratulations on beginning to see your dreams come true! When we begin to envision how to make transitions, then the means to do so seems to always appear. If it's not intruding to ask, has your hubby also found work where you will be? Also, congrats on cutting back on tv time. You'll be amazed at how much more time you'll have to do your crafts without this distraction.
I'm also curious about how to market crafts, being a vendor at craft fairs, etc... as I'm having more time now to pursue my creative side. I'll be interested to hear others comments.
I'm excited for you!
****Gardener, Stitcher, Spiritual Explorer and Appreciator of all Things Natural****
"Begin to weave and God will give the thread." - German Proverb |
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Eileen
True Blue Farmgirl
1199 Posts
Eileen
USA
1199 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2004 : 11:33:02 AM
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Hi Jamie,
As far as marketing your hand crafts goes. You might call or e-mail the Farm Chicks and get input from them. I have had a lot of experience marketing my beauties on a seasonal basis in a city but out here in rural America I have a harder time getting any money for the things that I create. You might explore the thoughts of the women in the area who will be your neighbors and find out about seasonal Grange sales or Barn Sales. I know that advertising helps a lot and I always send out lots of post cards to everyone I know who is remotely interrested in hand crafts as gifts or decorations when I have a pile of things I wish to sell. I always encourage these people to share my postcard with other friends who might be interrested. I've done this as a sort of garage sale at certain times of the year out here and have been able to draw in some of my city friends and their friends. This year I will be working with a close friend who has a horse stables, on a seasonal gift show to be held in the stables next October. This is by no means a monthly income but it does satisfy my need to be creative.
All the other advise is wonderful. If your husband is willing there is no obstacle you can't overcome. Some dear friends of mine had a daughter who married a man that inherited a small dairy farm in Wyoming. The two finished up college and decided to go to wyoming and give dairy farming a try. This is 18 years later and this couple have a thriving and growing dairy business as well as a lively large family. Happy endings are still possible in this country,
Eileen
songbird |
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gardenlady
Farmgirl in Training
10 Posts
Shelly
Oilville
Virginia
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2005 : 5:23:08 PM
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| If there are farmers markets in the area, find out what kind of farm goods are allowed. In some areas it has to be made or produced from the farm. Like wool from sheep raised on the farm, woven and made into items, etc. You also may want to remember that when you live on a farm that you can raise your own food, which will reduce expenses in that area. The local libraries have books available on crafting and such. You can also check with the Extension services, they may have opportunities available for your services. |
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KJD
True Blue Farmgirl
402 Posts
402 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 5:46:13 PM
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| Reviving an old topic, but I did a search for financial advice and landed on this. I enjoyed reading these posts, as I hadn't seen them before. I, like so many here, have dreams of owning a piece of Texas (that's my personal place of preference) someday. I grew up being part of a long-line of land-owners in Texas, only to have it all sold away a few short years ago because of property taxes more than anything else. But, my childhood was one of enjoying the country life every weekend and for stretches during summers, Christmas, etc. and several relatives still in the area of our land. So, now, here we are, a couple married 23 years, 3 sons, 2 in college, one homeschooled here in town, and DREAMS of the land! I read the posts here with interest and wanted to share a financial advisor we have been listening to, Dave Ramsay who has a nation-wide radio show and nation-wide live events. He really stresses getting out of debt completely and paying cash for what you want. So, we've been listening to him since October last year and since March this year, really put things into action and can see our future in very real terms now. I made a list today of all the changes we've made in our life to reach the goal of owning enough land for our 3 boys and their future families and ourselves to build homes on and have enough privacy for our sanity but the closeness that we desire as well. Just wanted to put this name, Dave Ramsay out there to say he is full of common sense and goal-setting if anyone's interested. The most recent book is Total Money Makeover. I have no personal tie to him except that he has brought our focus as a family regarding our finances so clear and we can truly see the goals we have for land ownership a reality. I plan to have chickens, bees, horses, etc. My husband wants cows and my youngest son wants more dogs and cats than should be allowed! It's exciting to us to have a goal and to be focused and to see that it can come true with good decisions about money. |
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abbasgurl
True Blue Farmgirl
1262 Posts
Rhonda
USA
1262 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 8:25:54 PM
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Jamie,
You've already heard lots of great advice. I think the two things I hear that you have going for you are your age & you have no children yet. After the babies come, it is sooo much more challenging to begin something new-and finish it! Do-able, but much harder. Personally, I would advise you to go back & finish up your vet education. You have three years before you even have to think of taking over the farm-perhaps your folks would extend that period to allow you time to finish school and pay off some debt. As much as I hate to admit it, the one thing see as I get older is that people really do want to hire someone with an education.
My husband was a 3rd generation farmer here in rural IN (corn & soybeans mostly). 25 years ago things were much different as far as grain/fuel prices & government incentive programs. My father in law is a brilliant man with much experience/education. He is excellent with finances as well. The 1500 acre farm, once very successful, could no longer support all of us (3 families). Both my husband & his brother branched out, turning the grain hauling semi-trucks into a trucking company. Years later my bro-in-law hauls commercial waste and my husband drives for a large trucking company.
We made the decision for my husband to work for someone else after years of stuggling to afford even the most basic medical insurance. Purchasing an individual family health policy is very expensive if you want good coverage. We opted for catastrophic coverage-very basic. Our medical bills for a four year period topped $60,000. A couple of sick kids and we were in debt to our eyeballs! Thankfully we have just under $500 left on that debt. I can't wait until the day it is gone forever! Every time I get a new medical bill these days I show my husband what he "earned"- the portion the insurance paid!
I hate to be the buzz kill here... but try to give honest advice based on what I know. Hope I didn't depress anyone!
There's some good stuff on this forum about selling your crafts. I would be happy to share what I know in that area if anyone has specific questions.
Rhonda
...and I will sing at the top of my lungs, and I will dance, even if I'm the only one! |
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Entrepreneurship: Looking for advice |
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Looking for advice
