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Across the Fence:  Society too sensitive?  |
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sunshine78
True Blue Farmgirl
106 Posts
Cynthia
Western
Nebraska
106 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 10:35:22 AM
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I heard something on the news yesterday and now again it was on today. On Monday, Colorado representative Doug Bruce was protesting a bill giving illegal immigrants temporary green cards for farm laborers. He said "We don't need 5000 illiterate peasants." It was followed by booing from his peers and the lady with the gavel took the floor back and told him to go sit down. Later the media talked to Bruce and he said that if he went to China then he would be considered illiterate in that society because he doesn't know how to read or speak the language. Okay, so maybe he could have said his point a little less abrasively, but he has a good one. Today on the news all those offended held a press conference in which the media showed them holding signs-in spanish! I mean, come on, if you're going to get upset about something someone says, prove them wrong i.e. that you can write and speak the language of the country in which you reside. Instead they just verified Bruce's comment. Lets forget about what was really an issue (the bill to get passed or rejected, but let's focus on what some guy says. We as a society are getting so sensitive to every little opinion someone has, it's starting to affect our right of free speech. Am I totally out to lunch on this- you can tell me because I'm not that sensitive!
Cynthia
www.vintageprairie.blogspot.com |
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catscharm74
True Blue Farmgirl
4687 Posts
Heather
Texas
USA
4687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 10:40:28 AM
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I get what you are saying Cynthia. Part of the problem is it has become taboo not to be overly politically correct. He could have said it more gracefully like "We need 5000 legal Americans in the jobs" and those who want the jobs can obtain their green cards properly.
It is the same reason I cannot say to my "friends" that I get annoyed that the stores in the mall now include a Spanish translation on them. We give in and this is what happens.
Cheers,
Heather
FARMGIRL #90 |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 11:02:43 AM
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where I live this is a HOT TOPIC....I think both sides are "right" (how is that for political correctness?)... I think any time we group people together and add a negitive judgment it isnt fair... not all women are gossips and not all farmers are stupid and not all illegal immigrants are illiterate - and not all illiterate people are peasants..... On the other hand...... I think we would be a more just society if we would expect all people living here to be citizens or legal.. and if we all spoke one major language... Our local school is always hurting for $$$$$.. and I wonder how much could be save if everything didnt have to be printed in 2 languages - english and spanish....I think heritage is a beautiful thing and NONE of us want to loose ours... But many legal americans in our neck of the woods cannt get employment until we learn "spanish".....
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl
" Plant goodness, harvest the fruit of loyalty, plow the new ground of knowledge. Hosea 10:12 |
Edited by - ruralfarmgirl on Apr 23 2008 11:04:15 AM |
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Betty J.
True Blue Farmgirl
1403 Posts
Betty
Pasco
WA
USA
1403 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 11:09:01 AM
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| Rene, don't forget about the very large Ukranian population we have in our area. They need to learn English also. I agree with what you are saying completely. |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 11:22:08 AM
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I dont know how we got so confused... it seems by lowering the "bar" we have let everyone down... if we rasie the bar and have true equality..everyone jumping over the same bar.. wouldnt we be further ahead... Betty, your right!!! My dad's family was/is german.. and many of them spoke it as the main language in thier homes.. but in the work world.. they knew english.......cultures facinate me and we are blessed to be surrounded by so much of it....But I guess I am a die hard believer that you can have both "roots & wings".....
I think Mr bruce.. like many of us.... should also take a course in "charm school".. maybe it should also be required for us all to go down south for a 101 in saying things the "southern way".. My granny.. (texas) could give you a verbal beaten.. that felt like honey - until the burn set in... ahahha
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl
" Plant goodness, harvest the fruit of loyalty, plow the new ground of knowledge. Hosea 10:12 |
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Leezard
True Blue Farmgirl
950 Posts
Elizabeth
Novi
MI
USA
950 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 11:53:11 AM
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I think calling immigrants "illiterate pesants" wasn't necessary...it's a gross generalization and it seems a bit extreme to me. Not all immigrants can't read or speak english so to lump them into one group like that is a bit much for my liking. I do agree that it would be wonderful if every immigrant, no matter where they come from, spoke english but I just don't see that as something that will be happening any time soon because of where our country is at right now. I think that there are a large portion of illegal immigrants that are necessary in this country because, from personal experiences, many Americans want far too much pay for certain jobs. I am not sure how we would go about making sure all immigrants spoke english...personally I don't know how I would feel comfortable enforcing something like that when we've got many Americans who can barely speak english themselves because of slang and such.
I guess the long and short of it is the lack of tact that came with his comment, in my opinion, as well as the lack of ways to regulate or force people to learn english.
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 12:37:36 PM
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I'm not going to touch on the immigrant thing, but I was thinking this very same thought yesterday on my way back from the feed store, listening to NPR--that we're all too "touchy" on the whole, we as a society. They were interviewing the editor in Chief of Time Magazine about an apparently controversial cover in which the cover depicts the soldiers at Iwo Jima (raising the flag) raising a tree...and reads, How to Fight Global Warming.
Apparently, this has burned a lot of britches with veterans groups...they feel it's belittling to their sacrifice at Iwo Jima. At first, while listening, I thought maybe they "likened" the effects of global warming to the effects of the atom bomb or something...but NO....just the cover. They had callers calling in saying, "my father, his brothers and my mother's brothers were all in WWII and I think this cover is disgusting. I won't read this magazine ever again...etc.." Well, when I got back to the office, I found the very issue in our lobby. Um, my dad was a ball turrett gunner in WWII and he fought for our country just the same as these folks....and I wasn't AT ALL offended by the cover--in fact, I didn't even really think it was offensive on any level. And, while I was listening, I wanted to remind the callers that the photo of the soldiers lifting the flag at Iwo Jima was taken at a later time, not even during that terrible battle (a day later)--a staged piece of history--like many propaganda photos of that time. It wasn't even "real"....
So, for folks to get their knickers in a twist over that, I just thought..."seriously, what ELSE could we be mad at?"
Farmgirl Sister #80, thanks to a very special farmgirl from the Bluegrass..."She was built like a watch, a study in balance ... with a neck and head so refined, like a drawing by DaVinci"...
NY Newsday sportswriter Bill Nack describing filly, Ruffian.
http://www.buyhandmade.org/ |
Edited by - KYgurlsrbest on Apr 23 2008 12:42:03 PM |
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Peanut
True Blue Farmgirl
603 Posts
Jennifer
Waverly
Virginia
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 1:59:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Leezard
I think calling immigrants "illiterate pesants" wasn't necessary...it's a gross generalization and it seems a bit extreme to me. Not all immigrants can't read or speak english so to lump them into one group like that is a bit much for my liking. I do agree that it would be wonderful if every immigrant, no matter where they come from, spoke english but I just don't see that as something that will be happening any time soon because of where our country is at right now. I think that there are a large portion of illegal immigrants that are necessary in this country because, from personal experiences, many Americans want far too much pay for certain jobs. I am not sure how we would go about making sure all immigrants spoke english...personally I don't know how I would feel comfortable enforcing something like that when we've got many Americans who can barely speak english themselves because of slang and such.
I guess the long and short of it is the lack of tact that came with his comment, in my opinion, as well as the lack of ways to regulate or force people to learn english.
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com
I couldn't agree with this more. Americans in general liked getting rich from the housing "boom" - Mexican immigrants built most of those houses. People like paying low prices for fruit and crab meat and almost anything else that needs to be harvested or picked - Mexican immigrants do that too. I find it hard to condemn someone for wanting to come to America, work their tail off for low (by American standards) pay and then go back home after 10 years and live in a gorgeous paid-for house and know that their families are taken care of for many years to come.
Surely a well-educated representative could have come up with something less medieval sounding (and more accurate) than "illiterate peasants"? People in my town enjoy feeling superior to the Mexicans with their dirt-stained clothes (wonder how they got that way?) but most are totally ignorant of the fact that these men are far from peasants by Mexican standards.
My blog: http://thecottonwife.wordpress.com/
"John Deere. We stand behind everything we sell. Except the manure spreader." |
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Betty J.
True Blue Farmgirl
1403 Posts
Betty
Pasco
WA
USA
1403 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 2:08:35 PM
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| I keep thinking that our land of "milk and honey" is such a good deal, why can't Mexico become similar? There is lots of land and if it weren't for the corruption in their government they could have the same things we do. This gets completely discombobulated in my head and the words may not come out right. Do I find that Mexico is willing to speak English to me?? Don't know. I'm sure the French don't converse in English around us, nor the Germans or all the other foreign countries. That is what it is all about isn't it? I think I'm off on a tirade and better quit while I'm ahead. |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 2:32:33 PM
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Each land and country is unique just like each and every one of us. I think it is great that America is often times a true melting pot of cultures and personalities. It sounds like that politician really flubbed his "diplomacy training"! Certainly I don't think we should insult anyone- and calling someone a peasant isn't going to inspire warm and fuzzy thoughts.
My own personal opinion about languages- we can't enforce a universal language in our society- it is too much the melting pot. And it would be horribly sad that someone who is just trying to make a better life for themselves was denied it because they were not taught a certain language.
Just my two cents to throw into the wishing well ;D
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.awarmheart.com
Please come visit Nora and me on our new blog:
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com |
Edited by - Alee on Apr 23 2008 5:42:34 PM |
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Leezard
True Blue Farmgirl
950 Posts
Elizabeth
Novi
MI
USA
950 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 4:12:23 PM
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Betty, my take on that is that we aren't those countries...we are made up of people from all over the world. Yes, other countries have people from all over the place but they aren't nearly as vast as we are. Using the comparison argument like that is hard because we're not those countries and we don't do everything like they do so it's hard to say we should do this one thing like they do. We don't allow nudity like they do in some European countries, we don't make women be covered head to toe as they do/did in some Middle Eastern countries...etc., hope that makes sense in my trying to explain my perspective. I totally understand where you are coming from and I respect that we've got different opinions :)
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com |
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Peanut
True Blue Farmgirl
603 Posts
Jennifer
Waverly
Virginia
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 4:35:19 PM
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This reminds me of my favorite college class ever: Human Geography. We studied regional, historical and religious differences and the consequences of each separately and together. It was fascinating.
My blog: http://thecottonwife.wordpress.com/
"John Deere. We stand behind everything we sell. Except the manure spreader." |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 5:31:57 PM
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I agree with the last 3 posts..... but maybe for Betty and I because of where we live - it isnt that we are keeping anyone from a better life, we ( I will speak for her.. correct me if I am wrong)...certainly want quality of life for everyone.....But at least here in Washington State ( South Central) it feels like we are on our heads....Perfect example: the other day I was in a "chain store".. and the gal at the cashier.. had to get someone to come and interpret for me...... as she didnt speak very much ENGLISH..yet, our kids graduating cannot get jobs if they dont speak spanish..... All I am saying is....if we truly believe it "equality".. then we need to teach "equlaity".. that every human being.. has the same oppertunities and same hurdles and the same standards.. otherwise we land on our head!
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl
" Plant goodness, harvest the fruit of loyalty, plow the new ground of knowledge. Hosea 10:12 |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 5:34:58 PM
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I love that we can have a great sisterly discussion about such "serious" things too, and in a way that is respectful and honoring.. great job farmgirls.... I had a thought, that maybe we can solve... why at the local Junior colleges are "english classes - Free.. and Spanish classes NOT????
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl
" Plant goodness, harvest the fruit of loyalty, plow the new ground of knowledge. Hosea 10:12 |
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catscharm74
True Blue Farmgirl
4687 Posts
Heather
Texas
USA
4687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 5:49:34 PM
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Rene- I thought of that too.
I believe the whole world is a melting pot but really in America, is where you really see cultures set up more than other countries. Yes, they do speak English in other countries but if you move there, you better darn well learn the culture and language. I will be very honest here. I get VERY frustrated when I am walking through a store and the signs are in Spanish or the cashier does not understand what I am saying, much like Rene mentioned. I really do not think that is fair. I grew up learning, talking, using English and honestly, that is what I expect. I don't care if someone's dictation is not correct or a little mixed up. I know when I went over seas, I am sure I ordered shoes instead of seafood. But changing an entires nations language to me is quite ridiculous. I honestly don't want to have to learn how to speak or read in Spanish. I know that may sound awful but that is how I feel. How would another country feel if they had to completely change how things have been,even if it was only the past 225 years?? I just don't understand. I can tolerate someone trying to make a life, do it legally (and yes, I realize the system stinks but so doesn't our healthcare systems and ignoring the problem will not make it better), learn the language to at least function, talk as you will at home or with friends and I will be there to help you, be your neighbor and friend.. Ok,,,,I am sorry if I offended anyone.
Cheers,
Heather
FARMGIRL #90 |
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Betty J.
True Blue Farmgirl
1403 Posts
Betty
Pasco
WA
USA
1403 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 6:06:47 PM
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| Heather, I agree with you 100%. I can remember in 2003 when I was looking for a job after being laid off from my job (23-1/2 years there) that unless I spoke Spanish there was nothing there for me. Nearly all the folks working at WorkSource were Spanish, so go figure. It wasn't their fault--the employer was the one making the decisions. |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 6:14:21 PM
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Heather -
I speak some German and Spanish - and teach a bible study were we use Greek and hebrew, and am learning Lacota.. I love languages - often cultures will have "words" that so better describe something then the english language does...learning a new language can add depth to ANYONE....I am very proud to be an american - who's language is a beautiful one.. and just feel we only dimish ourselves when we try to be to many "things". There are a lot of people who came here for better lives.. and part of the cost - was learning the language - do we diminish Thier sacrifices when we give to one foreinger more then another????? I dont know???
Cynthia.. did we totally get off topic -???? sorry if we did....
I was on the phone with my best GF Monica... and reading her this thread..She wanted me to point out that "i am a great person and I great friend" hahaha and she is hispanic..... So for monica I said it.. she was afraid people would read this and think ill of me............I assured her "it is all good".
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl
" Plant goodness, harvest the fruit of loyalty, plow the new ground of knowledge. Hosea 10:12 |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 6:30:58 PM
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OK.. Since we are talking about being "sensitive" or overly so.. I will tell one on me...
We called a couple realtors to come look at our house and tell us a market Analyst - We have always sold our own, but.. thought we would go through a realtor this time. The first "girl" that came - was early 30's driving a BMW, long nails, dress to the 9's...absolutley GORGEOUS!! ( that is probably were my attitude went wrong).... but I hoisted up my big girl panties and was all professional.. Now our home was built in the 70's.. and is nothing fancy.. 3500 square feet.... and decorated in what I would refer to as cottage/meets traditional... I collect tea pots.. and black sheep... No matter how hard I tried I couldnt "click" with this.....gal....the kicker was.... as she was "leaving she pointed out that she is a professional Stager" and would be more then happy to box-up some of my "clutter" before showing our home................................pointing out that MOST buyers dont "go for the" country look.........................
SO.... as you can image.... she didnt get the call back.....Guess we can all be a little "touchy"....ahhaha
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl
" Plant goodness, harvest the fruit of loyalty, plow the new ground of knowledge. Hosea 10:12 |
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miss wilma
True Blue Farmgirl
3410 Posts
Wilma
Knob Lick
Ky
USA
3410 Posts |
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goneriding
True Blue Farmgirl
1599 Posts
Winona
Central Oregon
USA
1599 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 9:08:54 PM
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Yes, I think society is too touchy. I'm pretty conservative and since I drive all over the US, I hear it all and have plenty of time to think. Personally, I wished everyone would learn english. I don't mind immigrants, just the illegals (we have laws to follow and no one is THAT special IMHO) I don't want here. Mexico is a very rich nation (they have the third largest oil reserves in the world, I think) but they are an oligarchy, which means the richest can only get richer, which is mainly in the southern part of Mexico. I was born in southern AZ and used to be able to speak some spanish but then lost it.
However, much to my annoyance, just to get some loads loaded (mainly in southern CA), I've had to reconstitute my spanish or it's a no-go on loading. Not my problem really but I do need to get the load where it needs to go!
I've never quite understood how speaking the unvarnished truth (the cowgirl in me coming out now) is considered wrong now. The peasant remark was a bit wrong but you also have to take into account if he was being snarky or coy (that's not the word I want but I mean was he being a bit jokey about it). Sarcastic?? I have a very dry sense of humor and many times people misread what I'm saying and get offended till I explain it to them, if I'm of a mind to! Not my problem if they don't understand!!
Just my $.02!!
Winona ;-)
When you lose, don't lose the lesson!!
http://goneriding.wordpress.com/
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Leezard
True Blue Farmgirl
950 Posts
Elizabeth
Novi
MI
USA
950 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2008 : 04:03:44 AM
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This isn't me being sarcastic or trying to start something, this is an honest to goodness question. I know many people don't like the idea of illegals, where I have known of them they are employed because Americans flat out will not do the work, farm work in this case, for a reasonable wage. What should these farmers do so that their farms don't go under for lack of employees? Some of the ones I know of went through close to 100 American employees in one year because people would take the jobs, milking cows, and then decide it was too hard and wanted more money. I have to say that I don't love the idea of illegals, I think that there has to be a way for our government to make a situation like that legal for the sake of some businesses. So until something like that can happen I am okay with them in some cases. It's such a frustrating situation with knowing that Americans will pass up good jobs, and fair paying jobs, because they don't want to do more physical work even though they need a job.
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com |
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goneriding
True Blue Farmgirl
1599 Posts
Winona
Central Oregon
USA
1599 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2008 : 06:04:00 AM
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I only have a minute before I have to deliver my load but I have heard Americans on the radio (callers, I mean) say that they go for the field work jobs only to be told that they will get less money than an 'undocumented' worker for some reason. They won't get the bennies also. Then again, I heard up in WA on my XM radio people were going for the apple orchard jobs and would work for whatever, just to have the jobs. I have no way to check on this but I do haul a lot of apples back to PA from WA. Wouldn't that be a hoot if I've actually talked to some of you guys and we didn't know each other?? hehehehe...
I'm not trying to start anything either but what I've heard on the radio and on the internet hasn't necessarily been what I've seen with my own two blue eyes. :-)
Winona :-)
When you lose, don't lose the lesson!!
http://goneriding.wordpress.com/
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catscharm74
True Blue Farmgirl
4687 Posts
Heather
Texas
USA
4687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2008 : 07:52:47 AM
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Elizabeth- I am right there with ya girlfriend. My first job was hauling hay bails and picking the seasonal fruit while most other teen worked in the mall. Best job I ever had!! But will most teenagers today do thse jobs (minus us farmgirls with kids, cousins, etc...). NO!!!
I really do not tolerate someone uses derogatory names for people around me, no matter what language it may be in. I think sometimes with all this political correctness, people bottle up what they are honestly thinking and it comes out wrong, even though a lot of people agree but just don't want to say it. Does that make sense???? : )
Cheers,
Heather
FARMGIRL #90 |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2008 : 08:23:58 AM
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Heather, I am with you. I pulled rye, drove harvest truck and cook for harvest crews growing up... I LOVED those summers.. and look back fondly.. We require our boys to "work"... I guess I feel if there old enough to have a drivers license they are old enough to earn the $$$ to drive....I suppose there is no easy answer to many of these questions other then, to treat others with the same amount of care and dignity we would want to be treated with....Generally there is more things we have in common then NOT.
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl
" Plant goodness, harvest the fruit of loyalty, plow the new ground of knowledge. Hosea 10:12 |
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Leezard
True Blue Farmgirl
950 Posts
Elizabeth
Novi
MI
USA
950 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2008 : 08:39:44 AM
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Winona, I'm not denying that there are some business who take full advantage of the illegal workers and end up taking jobs away from Americans who would work. I'm just speaking from my own personal experience with businesses, particularly smaller farms, that can't keep American workers for a decent wage. I know different situations happen all around the country but I also know that there are some situations where they are needed or these smaller farms will go under and be bought out by factory farms...I've seen something similar to that happen too and it's just a sad situation. I just don't think that there is a catch all answer for illegal workers, in some situations they are really needed and in others they are taken advantage of while Americans are put out of work. It's very unfortunate, to me, that it all gets lumped into one group, like was referenced in the original post and how our government tends to treat it, instead of taking things more case by case. One of my frustrations with this country and the politicians that are not out to do their jobs...
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com |
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Leezard
True Blue Farmgirl
950 Posts
Elizabeth
Novi
MI
USA
950 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2008 : 08:42:49 AM
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Heather, I agree with you about how sad it is with teens today and in turn how sad some of their parents are for not making them work for some things they get in life. Such a vicious cycle.
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com |
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Across the Fence: Society too sensitive? |
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Society too sensitive?
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