| Author |
Stitching & Crafting Room:  Use of JoAnn Fabrics Restroom  |
|
Jana
True Blue Farmgirl
482 Posts
Jana
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
USA
482 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 05 2007 : 7:09:51 PM
|
One other thing occured to me after reading another post. When you build a business it, although it is your private business, it is serving the public as well. Various states and communities have their own laws and ordinances regarding the providing of restrooms to the public. It is a public health issue and here it is determined by the size of the business. Our Hancock was originally built without public access to restrooms but that changed and, altough you have to walk through their stockroom to get there, they do have a public restroom now. And it is handicap accessible. Same with the Mill End Textiles here. You need a key to get in the bathroom (like you can somehow discreetly shoplift a bolt of fabric) but it is available. Heck, I can't think of even the smallest fabric or sewing machine shop that doesn't have a bathroom. Sorry to disagree, but I do think that it is one of the functions of government to provide the public with safe, sanitary conditions while shopping or doing any number of things.
Jana |
Edited by - Jana on Jun 07 2007 7:47:13 PM |
 |
|
|
Kathie
True Blue Farmgirl
2436 Posts
Kathie
Thonotosassa
Florida
USA
2436 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2007 : 09:21:52 AM
|
for me.. Joann's isn'tlike most other stores.. & i don't treat it as such.. i know when i plan on going.. & yes..it's a PLAN.. I will be there for quite some time.. & will ponder over quite a few things.. in ALL areas of the store.. Crafts.. paining.. floral.. garden.. & YIPPEE!! Fabric & notions!! i can't recal ever being there when there hasn't been some activity going on.. a class or some sort of even.. sewing.. picture framing.. beads.. SOMETHING.. & alomost always an impromto gathering of ladies.. ( usualy always ladies that find themselves gathered over the pattren books for extended lengths of time.. comparing pattrens.. or another area of the store wher you find yet another group of new friends discussing scrapbooking.. or bead details.. these woman may have never met until just this day.. but will end up spending the rest of their time shopping together here at Joann's! I have made more then a few friends while shopping here!
Because it is the store it is.. & allows for us to spend the time we do there.. But the thought that we'd have to leave to go in search of a public rest room.. at possibly a seedy nasty gas station or something.. rather then stay.. & shop comfortably here at Joann's seems amazing to me.. no.. not something illegal.. or newsworthy.. just unbelievable.. from what they have become.. to now what they are expecting of us..
i have written to joann's..& have not had a response yet..
I have three Joann's near enough to me to shop at.. One i don't go to due to traffic.. The one most close to me is the smallest.. & least favorite of mine.. bug will do in a pinch.. My favorite one I manage to get to at least once a week..
So yes.. i do spend quite a bit on money here.. we all do.. Just look at our Aprons alone.. not even any other crafts to see what we do..
So.. We'll see what happens.. & if any changes are made..
Fingers crossed hey girls?
Kathie
In a World Where you Can Be Anything, Be Yourself.. |
|
|
|
FlipFlopFarmer
True Blue Farmgirl
198 Posts
Carla
Molalla
Oregon
198 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2007 : 12:27:37 PM
|
I know what you mean ladies. We live about 35 minutes from the JoAnn's I go to and by the time me and my little boy arrive and shop for another 30 minutes or so....it's potty time!!! I went to the bathroom and it was locked. I thought someone was in there until I read the sign that said employees only. They suggested that I use the bathroom at the Burgerville next door. Meanwhile, my son is clearly about to pee his pants. I haven't shopped there since.
I understand the need to control the bathrooms a bit but this is a bit ridiculous! Pawning your customers off on another business isn't right either. If the Burgerville manager new that everyone at JoAnn's was being directed to their store to pee, they'd probably lock their bathrooms too.
Since clearly everyone has to use the restroom and sometimes unexpectedly, I think it's just good business to offer one to your customers.
*Edited to note that I just went on their site to express my dissatisfaction with their new store policy. I think we all should!*
Live simply.
Love generously.
Care deeply.
Speak kindly. |
Edited by - FlipFlopFarmer on Jun 06 2007 12:45:51 PM |
|
|
|
Vintage Redhead
True Blue Farmgirl
233 Posts
Kaylyn
Saint Charles
IL
USA
233 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2007 : 2:11:38 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by sunshine
...I am a little confused. Are we talking about making private industries force to have public restrooms. Am I understanding correctly. If that is the case I agree it is an inconvenience but it is still private land and they should be aloud [sic] to say how and for what purposes that land is used for and how.
...NOT NECESSARILY.
See, out here in Illinois, we have these different entities: the IL Department of Public Health, the Kane County Health Department, the CITY OF Geneva (charged with enforcing municipal codes) and other governmental entities who make and enforce laws regarding building and zoning codes and creative financing for blighted areas. [Using my local JoAnn's as an example.] In order for my local Joann's to get building and zoning permits (that is *PERMISSION*) they had to agree to state/county/municipal laws to build their local store and then pass a building inspection to verify that those building laws were integrated into the structure. Some laws (such as public restroom facilities) are dictated and/or affected by *total square footage* of retail space; other are affected by scope of business. My local Joann's is affected by both due to the size of the store and the fact that they offer classes and crops. That means that it is *AGAINST THE LAW* if my local Joann's tries to deny restroom facilities to the general public, regardless of their *RIDICULOUSLY STUPID* corporate policy.
While "...mom & pop..." places don't always have public facilities, they frequently don't have to based upon their square footage and/or scope of business. (Though frequently, they value their customer base so much they will gladly share their facilities. I find this the case if/when asked, particularly when I have child in tow, or someone with me explains a medical condition, or is clearly elderly.)
Many times Joann's are located in shopping centers and operated by REITs. *THEY* are the owners of the land. The contracts dictate how it is used, not a change in Joann's corporate policy.
So, fine. Let Joann's, being a "...private industry..." and all close off their restrooms to the public. Clearly they do not value their customer base. But as e-tailers pick up steam, that may not have been the smartest thing they could have done. Women driving 35, 50, *90* miles to shop at one who may now forego their trips for lack of a public restroom? I would personally stay home and shop online from elsewhere.
Sounds to me like Joann's missed the mark. Hmmmm...ten squares of toilet paper in trade for a sale. Seems like a no-brainer to me. But then what do *I* know? I think it's easier to keep a customer happy and *KEEP* them than try to get them back after they've gone elsewhere. ~ K
~ Kaylyn ~ (Living in Suburbia with a FARMGIRL Heart!)
My Cause: http://nickspavilion.blogspot.com/
My Life: http://vintageredhead.blogspot.com |
|
|
|
thehouseminder
True Blue Farmgirl
361 Posts
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2007 : 4:31:23 PM
|
I don't wish to make everyone hopping mad at Joann's, I just think we should let them know what our needs are.
Someone mentioned it was probably a man who made this decision. The first thing that popped into my head was, yeah, the same sadist who invented the "you only get one square of paper" tissue dispenser.
Anyway, yes they are probably violating city code in most areas and just don't realize it. So, in true Farmgirl form, I aim to tell 'em!
Lucinda
When we were young, there were moments of such perfectly crystallized happiness that we stood stock still and silently promised ourselves that we would remember them always. And we did. --Holly J. Burkhalter , "Four Midwestern Sisters' Christmas Book"
|
|
|
|
sunshine
True Blue Farmgirl
4877 Posts
Wendy
Utah
USA
4877 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2007 : 4:57:51 PM
|
Just curious if you are mad at Joann's why am I being attacked here I attacked no one I didn't agree with either side I saw problems on both and agreed boycotting was good please explain this to me. I am not mad I just see aggression being placed tword me instead of tword Joann's.
I have been singled out as bad here. Just because I don't agree with what every one else has said word for word doesn't mean I should be attacked verbally and bold print is screaming in cyberspace so I have now even been screamed out now.
Where has the farm girl mentality of respect others and their opinions gone. I attacked no one I even agreed with you on some points.
I don't think what Joann's has done is smart it will loose them clients. But go after them and not me.
Thank you for your time with this
sunshine
have a lovely day and may God bless you and keep you safe
my bloghttp://sunshinescreations.vintagethreads.com/
my web store http://vintagethreads.com/ |
|
|
|
Terre
True Blue Farmgirl
97 Posts
Indiana
USA
97 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2007 : 7:30:46 PM
|
Hi Sunshine! You are absolutely right---no one in any of MJF's discussions should have to feel at ease, just because they don't agree with what the majority is posting. So far, I have found the postings on MJF's site to serve the purpose of sharing information, friendly neighbors (though we're far spread), and here to help and uplift each other. Everyone is entitled to ongoing speech with agreement to have gentle, respectful discourse. Differing views can be valuable in giving food for thought for everyone, so
thank-you! It's hard to believe that we've had all this over pee. Do you all know what the strongest letter in the alphabet is?
"P" not even superman can hold it back :) Take care and I plan to continue to have happy sewing regardless.
Be true in heart. |
|
|
|
Carol
Moderator/MaryJane's Design Diva
452 Posts
Carol
Moscow
Idaho
USA
452 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2007 : 7:43:54 PM
|
Hello girls.
Remember, we need to keep arguments off this forum. It's all too easy to take (or make) things personal when expressing your frustrations with a situation. I don't think anyone here wants to get in a fight over whether Joann's is providing restrooms for the public. Try to remember, also, that there might be reasons behind this decision that you don't know. Even corporations can be overwhelmed by the increasing costs and regulations in today's society, and they might be forced into a decision like this rather than close entire stores. Or maybe it's not even a decision, it's isolated incidents with particular stores. We just don't know the reasons behind the decisions. But maybe we should find out. I think what could help, since most of you feel strongly about needing to have access to public restrooms in one of your favorite stores, is to write the corporate headquarters and tell them how you feel. I would caution you, though, to be thoughtful and kind when you write to them. Remember that there are people just like you and me behind this (and every) corporation name.
Farmgirl plowin' through ...
Carol
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, red wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming 'WOO HOO, what a ride!'"
|
|
|
|
Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
|
|
Shirley
True Blue Farmgirl
734 Posts
Shirley
Olympia
Wa
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 12:04:25 AM
|
Gosh, I have been rereading the 3 pages, and I cant see where anyone was attacked. each one was giving thier opinion.
shirley |
|
|
|
Vintage Redhead
True Blue Farmgirl
233 Posts
Kaylyn
Saint Charles
IL
USA
233 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 05:32:14 AM
|
Sunshine:
I'll assume it's my post (because I quoted you) that hurt you, and I will apologize up front to say that *I AM SO SORRY* that you felt attacked. *WOW*...that certainly was not my intention and I apologize that my posting left you feeling: a) that your opinion was in any way invalid -- because *EVERY* opinion is personal to the holder and therefore *VALID*; and/or b) personally attacked, as I was only responding to a *very small* portion of your entire piece.
I just wanted to point out (exampling Illinois -- every state / county / municipality is *wayyy* different) there are specific laws which may not make Joann's "corporate" decision legal. Further, I think this corporate decision has not given weight to individual occupancy contracts where they exist (e.g. shopping mall stores versus stand-alone stores.) When companies make these "corporate-wide" decisions, they often do so with admirable intentions but with blind ambition, failing to see rippling ramifications or without taking into consideration *who* the customer base is that they are affecting. This has left *me* feeling personally devalued as a customer...and in my reading on this thread, it appears to have left others feeling devalued as well. Does Joann's understand that while they have a website where women can shop that some would actually *prefer* to drive up to 100 miles to visit one of their stores? And possibly not even a small population of women?
But I was also trying to concede that in no way am I an "expert" - just someone with a strong opinion! Yeah - to me it makes more sense to part with the toilet paper than a sale. But apparently there is something behind the scenes, as Carol indicated, that we are not privy to may make this a worthy venture for corporate. Liability Insurance? Loss prevention? Soap & TP prices? ADA considerations? One too many lawsuits for a wet floor? Who knows...I certainly don't!!
I haven't even had a chance to review my post yet because I was so alarmed that I may have hurt you I just dove right in. MEA CULPA!! Regardless of my intention, the outcome was that you were hurt and felt attacked. For that I am *TRULY SORRY*!! I'll try to do a better job in my posts to make certain that my "passion" comes through without leaving anyone feeling the way you do.
*PLEASE* don't let my ineptitude keep you from expressing your opinion. I (for one!) always like reading what you have to say, Sunshine! There have been *DOZENS* of times that I have read a thread, getting to your post and rethinking an issue because you presented a different view. I really am *SO SORRY* to have left you feeling bad. ~ Kaylyn
~ Kaylyn ~ (Living in Suburbia with a FARMGIRL Heart!)
My Cause: http://nickspavilion.blogspot.com/
My Life: http://vintageredhead.blogspot.com |
|
|
|
ashcordes
True Blue Farmgirl
197 Posts
Ashley
Roann
IN
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 05:47:37 AM
|
Speaking from a health standpoint here....when I was diagnosed with diabetes I was told that NO ONE could refuse to let me use their restroom in a public place, and that if I showed them my medical ID bracelet and they still refused that I could actually call the police on them!!!! I have never had to call the police, but I have had to use my bracelet, and make some threats before. No one can deny you this "basic right".
|
|
|
|
thehouseminder
True Blue Farmgirl
361 Posts
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 09:05:47 AM
|
Sunshine, I am so sorry that you felt attacked. I don't think that was anyone's intention. I do see that everyone has passionate feelings on the subject I appreciate both sides of the argument. I think the capital letters you saw had to do with Joann's, not you.
We DO truly value your feelings an opinions and PLEASE never hesitate to give us your two cents.
Lucinda
When we were young, there were moments of such perfectly crystallized happiness that we stood stock still and silently promised ourselves that we would remember them always. And we did. --Holly J. Burkhalter , "Four Midwestern Sisters' Christmas Book"
|
|
|
|
candismom
True Blue Farmgirl
560 Posts
Elizabeth
560 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 09:16:40 AM
|
One reason for this is because of shoplifting. many stores are going to this policy along with a few other changes. My krogers now has one way in and another way out. To get out you have to go through a checker.
I was told by my state that stores don't have to provide bathrooms if they chose not too. It is a service not a right they said. My right is to chose not to shop there I was told. I agree with Sunshine. The goverment need to stay out of this.
Hugs,
Elizabeth
My shop www.theclothesline.etsy.com
I sell Crabapple Hill Studio and other Patterns. Pluse lots of other handmade items.
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
|
|
|
|
FlipFlopFarmer
True Blue Farmgirl
198 Posts
Carla
Molalla
Oregon
198 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 12:47:50 PM
|
This was the email reply I rec'd today from JoAnns........
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:53:15 -0700
From: REGION1@jo-annstores.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
CC: "Bob Icsman" <Bob.Icsman@jo-annstores.com>
Subject: Re: Store Experience - OR
Thank you for your recent letter concerning the issue of closing our store restrooms. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. The closings in our Traditional stores were the result of legal and liability concerns - primarily to those stores that have a restroom in the stock/office area. For the stores that may have a restroom located on the sales floor, it is important that they meet standards as appropriate for a public restroom, and that may not always be the case. It is never our intention to disappoint our valued guest during their shopping visits and we appreciate your understanding while we continue to address the restrooms in our stores.
Thank you again for bringing your concerns to our attention. We look forward to the continued opportunity to inspire your creativity!
Sincerely,
Shannon
Jo-Ann Fabric & Crafts
This was the email I sent them yesterday......
topic : Store Experience
store location : OR
comments : I am writing today to express my dissatisfaction with your new store policy regarding restrooms for your customers. As a Mother with children a restroom is a necessity. Please keep in mind a great majority of your customers are women, often with children or elderly women that often need to make frequent trips to the restroom. I shop at the Oregon City, OR store and my little boy needed to use the restroom but the bathroom door was locked. I thought someone was in there until I read the sign that said employees only. I sought out an employee and explained to her the my little boy REALLY needed to use the restroom and they directed me to use the bathroom at the Burgerville next door as the restroom was now for employee use only. Meanwhile, my son is clearly about to pee his pants. I haven't shopped there since. Pawning your customers off on another business isn't right. If the Burgerville manager knew that everyone at JoAnn's was being directed to their store, they'd probably lock their bathrooms too.
Since clearly everyone has to use the restroom and sometimes unexpectedly, I think it's just good business to offer one to your customers.
-----------------
Live simply.
Love generously.
Care deeply.
Speak kindly. |
Edited by - FlipFlopFarmer on Jun 07 2007 12:48:37 PM |
|
|
|
happymama58
True Blue Farmgirl
1210 Posts
Patti
Missouri
USA
1210 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 10:24:46 PM
|
I've read this entire thread and found it really interesting. I see both sides of the issue -- that providing a bathroom is important, but it is a service, not always or everywhere a required one. I tried to put myself in the position of the business owner and can see that, in light of some of them having restrooms in out of the way places there could be some liability, but as a person who drives about 2 hrs to get to the store, I truly understand the need to have restroom access. Also, if everyone goes to the place next door, whatever that may be, that really isn't fair to that business, either. Particularly if I'm spending money at Joann's and not at the place with the bathroom.
So I sent a letter to Joann's, politely stating that this is a problem for me. I told them I would, due to the physical situation, be forced to utilize stores such as Michaels and other fabric stores that do have public restrooms and that I'd only be able to stop at Joanns after I had shopped at a store that had *everything* I needed as a shopper, which includes a bathroom. I pointed out that, of course, if I found the items I needed at the first stores (the ones with the bathrooms) that I visited, I'd no longer have a need to stop at Joann's on my way back home.
Some people search for happiness; others create it.
Please visit me at www.marykay.com/pmiinch |
|
|
|
MagnoliaWhisper
True Blue Farmgirl
2817 Posts
Heather
Haysville
Kansas
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2007 : 3:10:53 PM
|
I know with my diabetes, I don't always have time to go seek a bathroom out else where. Kidney disease really doesn't "wait".
However, a true story I seen in Wichita, Kansas. Walmart at the time was fairly new in our area (about 20 years ago). And at the time they locked the bathrooms but you could still use them....if you asked. Well, one day on my way home from school we seen a bunch of police and ambulances in the Walmart parking lot, along with news crews! I said I wonder what's happening? We turned the radio on to the country news station (KFDI), and they were saying that some man was holding the electronic dept hostage (now there seems to always be more then one way out of electronics, but not back then!). Finally they asked the man what he wanted. He wanted to pee! Just let me go to the bathroom he asked. And that was all the man wanted. From that day forward that walmart no longer "locked" their bathroom, and then I seen the bathrooms at Walmart get larger and larger, and often even more then one! (back then there was only one and it was by fabrics!). And never again have I seen a Walmart bathroom locked. At the time we lauged and laughed about the whole ordeal! But, this whole thing reminded me of it! I sure hope it doesn't happen again! lol |
|
|
|
Stitching & Crafting Room: Use of JoAnn Fabrics Restroom |
|
Use of JoAnn Fabrics Restroom
