| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jan 29 2012 : 10:58:56 AM
I am having a bit of a dilemma and thought I would bring it to the Farmgirls for advice.
I have a SAHM mom friend I've known for about a year and a half now and she is a sweet, wonderful person and a great mom.
She has two adorable little girls, ages 4 and a little over 2. About 6 months ago her 4 year old started getting up every night, waking up her little sister (they share a room) and then going into her parents room to wake them up. My friend thought the best way to react to this was to get up with them, play with them (she said this was in an effort to "wear them out") and then read to them and put them back to bed. The whole process would take several hours.
Pretty soon, her older daughter went from doing this once a night to two or three times a night and my friend started getting as little sleep a night as she did when her girls were newborns. In turn, she began putting them down for naps at 9 am every day so she could get some sleep. The mom was so tired (and her daughters sleepy from being up all night) they all started sleeping sometimes from 9 until well into the afternoon. When she gets them up, they play for awhile, she does bathtime and tries to give them an early dinner (which they both refuse to eat) and then puts them to bed early. She says they now wake her up at midnight crying how hungry they are and she heats up their dinner and sits with them, then they refuse to go back to sleep for hours. She told me she can get them back to bed for a little bit, but they wake back up and she feels she needs to put them back down at 9 or so for naps. Then it all starts over again - day after day.
This crazy schedule means that basically my friend and her daughters can no longer attend the preschool dance classes we used to do together, hardly leave the house ever and can't do playdates anymore because they are all sleeping all day and up all night. When I asked my friend what she was doing to stop this cycle, she said, "What am I supposed to do? I tell them to stop and they won't. I can't scream at them. They are too little to punish."
I can tell she's miserable, and her daughters are just missing out on everything because of their "night owl" behavior being allowed to continue.
I really want to just tell her flat out that this is nuts and she needs to stop this for her own sanity and family well-being, but I'm worried about how she will react. Also, the one time I tried to hint that she seemed unhappy and needed to do something about it she got very defensive and angry and I backed off and changed the subject.
Should I try to really confront her? And if so, what should I say?
I'm not concerned about this because I think she's a bad mom (she is a very loving mom!), I just feel that as a friend I see her and her family really struggling and want to help.
What should I do?
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Mar 02 2012 : 11:54:00 AM
I'm glad she's been so receptive lately and willing to try to have a life.
My concern with how the whole problem began was that she was letting the children make the decisions and run the house, and if she was setting up that dynamic it was going to continue to be a problem forever, not necessarily just the graveyard hours debacle. Hopefully the situation is extreme enough that she won't be tempted to "go along with what the kids want" ever again.
~*~ http://silverstarfamilyfarm.blogspot.com/ ~*~
“When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.”
~Erma Bombeck |
| sjmjgirl |
Posted - Feb 27 2012 : 10:15:46 AM
That's fabulous ! Here's hoping she keeps it up!
Farmgirl Sister # 3810
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
- Dalai Lama |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 26 2012 : 10:32:05 AM
I'm trying to keep an eye on them and I'm hoping things are more "normal" on days we haven't been with them. I have been reluctant to ask her about other days, just because I don't want to "rock the boat" now that she seems to be taking positive steps away from the detrimental routine she was in.
It's nice to have her back among us "daytime" people, though!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| MagnoliaWhisper |
Posted - Feb 24 2012 : 7:51:35 PM
That's awesome, however, if old habbits resurface, she may want to look into things to make sure it's not a medical condition.
http://www.heathersprairie.blogspot.com |
| texdane |
Posted - Feb 24 2012 : 6:47:27 PM
Good! Happy ending...
Nicole
Farmgirl Sister #1155
KNITTER, JAM-MAKER AND MOM EXTRAORDINAIRE
Chapter Leader, Connecticut Simpler Life Sisters
Suburban Farmgirl Blogger
http://sfgblog.maryjanesfarm.org/ |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 24 2012 : 12:42:55 PM
We've been on another outing with them and brought over lunch to their house and stayed for a playdate. After each of these she told me her little ones SLEPT THROUGH THE NIGHT! And so did she! She was shocked, but happy, and I think she's been realizing that throwing themselves into daytime activities has great results. I just hope she doesn't slip back into old habits.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| buggysmum |
Posted - Feb 24 2012 : 09:20:14 AM
Awesome! Great to hear how well it went. You are a true friend. |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 7:13:17 PM
I was amazed that it worked out so well. I really do have to think she was already in the direction of wanting things to change, she just needed a bit of a push.
I'm really just hoping it keeps going like this.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Sharon Denise |
Posted - Feb 17 2012 : 09:22:05 AM
That's amazing, Suzanne!! I'm so glad it went well, and everyone had a blast. You're a real blessing to them, and I hope the good news continues!
Farmgirl Sister #3754
www.facebook.com/bellcountybelles
http://bellcountybelle.blogspot.com/
http://pinterest.com/bluemonarch/
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. Yet that will be the beginning."
~Louis L'Amour |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 16 2012 : 2:41:37 PM
I just hope this is a turning point for her. I think she really must have been ready to try getting out of her rut and coming out with us reinforced that. I hope she keeps it up. I know she may have setbacks, but I hope things will steadily get more normal for her and her family again!
I am planning more "won't take no for an answer" outings with her over the next few weeks.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| MrsRooster |
Posted - Feb 16 2012 : 2:13:37 PM
You are a wonderful friend. I think this is just what she needed.
I noticed myself that since I live 1400 miles from friends and family, that it is easier just to get in that rut.
Have a wonderful day. You are such a blessing.
www.mrsrooster.blogspot.com
www.flossesandcrosses.blogspot.com
www.morganicinstitute.blogspot.com
Farmgirl #1259
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| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 16 2012 : 11:46:42 AM
Hi Everyone!
I am happy to report that the Botanical Gardens trip was a huge hit, and even when she tried to hint we should leave, I distracted her (and her girls) with more activities. They all stayed awake and I must say she looked happier than I have seen her in awhile!
I also convinced her to start doing the weekly preschool dance/tumbling classes with us again AND told her I wanted to plan another outing where I would do the driving for next week and she agreed to that! I am SO happy!
I did tell her that I thought getting out during DAY would be key to not living like this anymore, and I was surprised when she didn't get defensive, but actually agreed with me.
My 4 year old and 1 year old were happy to see her girls again, too, and we all had just a great time.
I guess my plan of forcibly showing her all the daytime fun she's been missing might just work.
I told her, too, that I just wouldn't accept her cancelling on plans with us anymore just because she is tired or afraid her girls will fall asleep. I am more than willing to drive.
I am really just hoping that the beginnings of a change I saw today will continue.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| buggysmum |
Posted - Feb 16 2012 : 10:11:13 AM
What happened with the day at the Botanical Gardens? How did it go? |
| buggysmum |
Posted - Feb 10 2012 : 12:00:29 PM
What an awesome idea. You are what a real friend is really about. I hope that all goes well and that you all enjoy the day together. Keep us posted. |
| Sharon Denise |
Posted - Feb 09 2012 : 09:21:14 AM
Fingers crossed and prayers uttered! You really are being a great friend, and I hope this works out. She's blessed to have you.
Farmgirl Sister #3754
www.facebook.com/bellcountybelles
http://bellcountybelle.blogspot.com/
http://pinterest.com/bluemonarch/
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. Yet that will be the beginning."
~Louis L'Amour |
| sjmjgirl |
Posted - Feb 08 2012 : 5:33:43 PM
Suzanne, you really are a true friend. I hope everything goes well.
Farmgirl Sister # 3810
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
- Dalai Lama |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 08 2012 : 4:42:47 PM
That's sweet of you to say, Alee. I don't really feel like anything special, though. I just hope it works! I'm going to give her and her little ones such a good time at the Botanical Gardens next week, she will never want to sleep all day again! I hope, too, it will wear her girls out and they will sleep all night. If she will let me help her get them moving during the day, I think she would be on her way to changing this. Maybe she's just given up trying because she's just blind-tired. If I can remind her what it's like to be "normal" again, it might also give her the courage to enforce nighttime sleep with her kids.
Everyone cross their fingers and say a little prayer for her! I will let everyone know how it turns out next week!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Alee |
Posted - Feb 08 2012 : 1:00:46 PM
Suzanne- you are an awesome friend!! :)
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
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| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 08 2012 : 11:03:42 AM
Thank you so much, everyone, for caring so much! This is part of why I love MJF - everyone here is amazing and genuine.
I've been thinking a lot about this, too. When I had my 2nd daughter, she was EXTREMELY high-maintenance. She hardly ever slept, she had colic far more severe than anyone had ever heard of and when she wasn't screaming, she was fussing. At that same time, I had some extended family drama to deal with, as well as trying to take care of my oldest daughter - who was 2 - and pretty soon I was a mess. An absolute, fatigued mess. It was about as low as I have ever felt in my life. After months and months of suffering through this, I came to the realization that if I kept staying home all day, every day, just fixating on my situation, I was going to keep spiralling down. No matter how unhappy my 2nd daughter was, I started taking she and my oldest out every day (physically away from our home and yard). Whether it was a LONG walk around the neighborhood, a walk around the big indoor mall we could drive to or a trip to the MetroParks. We got memberships to every museum within driving distance, too, and started going to those on a regular rotation. Forcing myself up and out really saved me - it just changed my whole mindset.
With this personal experience in mind, I really started to think my best bet with my friend is to force her and her kids to get out of the house. She HAS to break this cycle. She told me she wasn't up for going this week, so I planned a day trip to our Botanical Gardens for next week for my youngest two and she with her two girls, told her I am driving and have free passes for them and I am not taking no for an answer. I am planning on having all of us attend the free craft and story hour there that day, buying them lunch in the garden cafe and lots of play! I told her if she tries to cancel, I will show up at her door anyway and INSIST! I'm also bringing her some nice hot coffee to drink while I drive there! She had no choice but to agree to the invite!
I feel like if I can get her and her girls OUT, I can say something when we are there about how she needs TO BE OUT again and offer to be the friend to help her with that!! I would be happy to plan outings, drive, host playdates, whatever, until she gets back on a regular day/night schedule.
I need to try something - I just can't keep mum anymore!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Sharon Denise |
Posted - Feb 08 2012 : 10:34:29 AM
I'm sorry, I agree with those who are genuinely concerned for your friend's welfare. This goes beyond the normal issues of getting in a rut. This doesn't sound like a problem with the kids, it definitely sounds like an emotional/mental issue with their mother. I would be extremely concerned with the level of anxiety at play here. Are you at all close with the husband? Can you speak with him about your concerns and get his take on things? If she snaps and does something unthinkable or her marriage utterly crumbles, you will feel guilty and responsible for a long time. :-( I'm so sorry for them, and you. She may be a sweet, loving mom, but she's not being a good mom, a good wife or a good friend. And deep down she knows it, which may be exacerbating the problem. What a terrible position you're in. I hope you get a good gut feeling of how you think you should proceed. It's just not a healthy environment for anyone, and I hate to think how those little girls are going to turn out if things don't change.
Farmgirl Sister #3754
www.facebook.com/bellcountybelles
http://bellcountybelle.blogspot.com/
http://pinterest.com/bluemonarch/
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. Yet that will be the beginning."
~Louis L'Amour |
| buggysmum |
Posted - Feb 08 2012 : 06:28:07 AM
This thread has been on my mind...a lot...I am starting to think that maybe your friend is really in trouble, emotionally, and does need the help. I am a strong proponent of attachment parenting, but I have also seen it go dreadfully wrong because of lack of sleep, unenforced boundaries, and lack of some type of structure. I don't think this is the idea behind the practice of attachment parenting (which is really quite natural and beautiful), but sometimes that's where it leads if it's misinterpreted.
If she's that out of control and is telling you that she's unhappy, it's definitely a cry for help, except that she's probably too tired to cry...it's more of a whimper.
I don't think it is your role to help your friend, because it probably has to be somebody outside of her personal circle for objectivity. Are you better off letting somebody know about it who can help her and her kids? Can you put in an anonymous call or letter?
Please keep us posted... |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 01 2012 : 8:44:27 PM
It's funny you should mention that, Heather, because those two issues were ones I disagreed with Jo on, as well. I'm an extended breastfeeding mama and practice co-sleeping and attachment parenting. What I have always liked about Jo was her straight talk with the parents and proponent of setting and enforcing boundaries.
Part of my dilemma with my mom friend is that she keeps telling me how unhappy she is with what's going on, which I keep wondering might be an unconscious cry for help. I've also seen her and her daughters basically become shut-ins over this and it's really hard to just know they are missing out on life.
But at the same time, I agree that maybe involving myself in her parenting decisions without her directly asking for it might just be wrong.
I also just miss seeing my friend. And my 4 year old misses playing with her daughters.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| MagnoliaWhisper |
Posted - Feb 01 2012 : 4:13:30 PM
I'm probably of the minority, but I really dislike Nanny Jo. Mainly cause of her anti extended breast feeding, and attached parenting that I believe in. But, that's just a personal thing. lol
Other then that, though in my LLL meetings we discuss discipline at least every few months. I would say maybe Dr. Sears would be good for her. LLL believe in gentle training, but still training/discipline. Children need it. But, this is such a personal decision unless some one is looking for answers, they usually are doing what they truly believe is right and it's just going to likely cause strife to say anything differently.
I would I think go at it as a health risk, there is studies that say people who do not sleep at NIGHT live shorter lives with more illnesses. For instance people who work night shift die sooner, and get sick more often. Research shows that the liver cleanses itself between 2 and 4 am, if you aren't in a deep sleep at that time (which means you need to be in bed by 9 and asleep by 10) you can have some pretty serious long term health effects. Maybe you could show her that data.
Of course it's not going to change her not wanting to discipline though...which sometimes we just have to accept our friends and their choices in such things, or choose to move on to other friends.
http://www.heathersprairie.blogspot.com |
| Rosemary |
Posted - Feb 01 2012 : 2:36:43 PM
Poor Suzanne! I really feel for you. This is such a tough one. I wonder if something positive could break through the wall of sleepiness that separates you from your friend right now. Do you ever get to see her during the day at ALL? If so, maybe you could give her a little present, say one of those constellation tracker things they sell in children's toy stores for kids who are into astronomy. You could say you saw it in the store and thought of her, how she and her kids might enjoy studying the night sky together. It would be a way of showing her you will support her no matter what, but it might also be just enough of a gentle jolt to get her talking about her life. I agree, this would be a good one for Nanny Jo. *sigh* |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Feb 01 2012 : 1:17:45 PM
I've been thinking and re-thinking this issue and I appreciate everyone's input. I think everyone who has weighed in on the dilemma has brought up really good, valid points. I'm just still torn. While it is true that we aren't seeing her anyway, since they are doing the sleep all day, awake all night routine, I hate to alienate her altogether if I confront her and she takes it the wrong way. Then again, I feel irresponsible on some level as her friend if I don't say anything.
After thinking about this so much and reading everyone's posts, I think my friend has really ended up in this cycle because she just refuses to say no to her kids and enforce it. Even though I do not know anyone who has gone quite this far with that, I do know lots of parents who just don't want to be the parent - they want to be a buddy. Then their kids wind up with no direction or boundaries and everyone suffers in the long run.
I've always been partial to Supernanny, too! If only I could get Nanny Jo to handle this!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
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