| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| maggie14 |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 10:25:53 AM
Hi everyone, well it looks like I am going to have horned goats.
Eli and Elinor's horns have grown so much that I know it is too late to dehorn them. I guess God answered my prayers because I was really unsure if I should dehorn them or not. I didn't do what people have told me and dehorn at 4 to 10 days old because my babies were really, really small and I knew they couldn't handle it.
My other baby Ebony already has horn. I did try ( as you all remember) to dehorn her but we didn't leave the iron on long enough so they have grown back. Now I have a mix of dehorned goats and horned goats. lol
So here is my question.... I have spent lots of time finding out why you should dehorn, now I want to know why they should have horns.
And if anyone has anything else about having horned goats please let me know. I have a good feeling about this and am so glad I don't have to stand and watch them dehorn my babies.
Hugs!!
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Jun 07 2010 : 5:17:40 PM
Oh Beverly! That is so sad. Poor guy. Give him a great big hug from me will you?!?
Hope he feels better soon.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| Beverley |
Posted - Jun 07 2010 : 3:46:24 PM
well my vet would not do the little boy cause his were already to big and he was 3 weeks old that day. the little girls were small enough to be done. I was not happy with my vet and the way he castrated the boy( by making to slits and cutting out the testes) the poor little guy bled a lot from the one side. I had to sit and hold him and put light pressure on the one side to get it to stop. I felt so sorry for him. He is such a sweetie. My vet has never done this kind before. He always just banded them before which numbs them naturally and the little guys never even notice. I will insist on him numbing them next time cause I don't think he did. I felt really bad for the little guy. the girls was back playing in 2 seconds but the little guy was pretty quiet for a day or 2. my vet also said blood does not flow through the horns. so I guess I will have to look more into that. so my little girl will have no horns and the little wether will have his. I really don't care but I am going to try and sell the girl and people like them de horned better for showing and stuff like that. well, that is my update. ttys bev
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Jun 07 2010 : 10:33:34 AM
Yes Connie, that is a little late to dehorn.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| sherrye |
Posted - Jun 07 2010 : 06:26:34 AM
howdy ladies, well with the babies what i do is trim the ends. i use the hoof trimmers and shave the point down a little. then they are not as sharp. i still like keeping the horns on. if my animals are ever moved to the fields, they can protect themselves. since grace said they can regulate temp through them i will not remove them. i do have a naturally polled cow. she is a good girl so would not matter if she had them. happy days sherrye
the learn as we go silk purse farm
farmgirl #1014
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| eskimobirdlady |
Posted - Jun 06 2010 : 9:01:05 PM
thanks channah, i will go to the website and see if i can find something. even if i changed my mind about dehorning its too late now since they are 7 months old, isnt it? i had a lady tell me the last night to use tennis balls and duct tape. what ya think? peace connie in alaska |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Jun 02 2010 : 2:40:45 PM
Hi Connie! There is such a thing has goat horn tape and horn guards. Hoegger Supply Company carries them for sure.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| eskimobirdlady |
Posted - Jun 02 2010 : 2:24:57 PM
can the horn tips be made less sharp in some way? stripper and t'other have such sharp tips that i am always getting cut by them. if not then i will just have to learn to be more careful! lol. peace connie in alaska |
| grace gerber |
Posted - May 29 2010 : 12:10:38 PM
It has been a while since I have read this group - busy shearing and processing fiber. Beverly, the issue with horns is they are not going to be colder in the winter if they have them, it is a way for them to regulate their body temp both for cold and hot. Musk Ox in the Coldest of climates do not freeze because they have horns - they are warm because they also have their heavy fiber. The issue with the horns is they pump blood thru them with is a way in the heat to cool themselves - during very cold times they have the ability to lessing the flow of blood which then keeps the blood in their body which aids in their warmth. Mother Nature had this all figured out and it really does work.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| maggie14 |
Posted - May 28 2010 : 08:31:03 AM
That is so neat Beverley!
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| Beverley |
Posted - May 27 2010 : 9:23:04 PM
I'm taking my 2 little ones in next thursday to have them done and have the male banded. so I understand. one lady took hers already cause she does not want it disbudded and that is her choice even though it was one from my goat. She is bottle feeding it so it is at her place now. the mom feed all three for the first couple of days and then started pushing the small one away and would not let it nurse. I took it and started bottle feeding it and a few days later her new mommy came and got her and she is doing really well. I saw her today if fact. The cutest little thing and loving all the attention of having a mommy to herself!!! hehehehe talk about heart wrenching when the mom starts doing that I feel so bad for the little kid. your own mom doesn't want you. but she is doing well so I am happy with how it all turned out...
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
| maggie14 |
Posted - May 27 2010 : 8:54:24 PM
Thank you Beverly for your thoughts. I had decided not to let them have horns ( long story).
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| Beverley |
Posted - May 27 2010 : 8:36:33 PM
oh yes I have nigora goats that are fiber goats but you have to understand we live in michigan too. they don't get as hot or overheated and a goat that might live in a warmer climate so you have to take that into consideration as well. In the summer they are sheared and in the winter they need for their warmth to stay in their body to keep them warm. so you may want to weigh that also in your decision. my lil henry , my buck goat got cold last winter and was shivering when the goats that had no horns stayed warmer.
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
| Beverley |
Posted - May 27 2010 : 8:33:05 PM
well I agree with the article that states they de horn. I have had goats with horns and without. For me it is purely and safety factor. I have gandkids and horns can hurt a lot of just accidently bumped with them. I have never had a goat that with horns or without got stuck in a fence so that is not an issue with me. I have a buck right now that has his horns and he is the friendliest goat I have but when he rubs up against me he sometimes gets me with his horns and I have bruises from it and he doesn't even butt me. so, frankly I agree you have to do research and do what is right for you no one else. I have our vet do them and I have never had scurs either and the goat never even cries or seems to even notice something has been done. they go on playing and eating and having fun just like they were 3 minutes before it was done. I have sheep that are naturally polled so it is not an issue there. I wish goats came that way too cause no one likes disbudding bud for me it has to be done. But it is a personal decision.
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
| maggie14 |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 7:41:48 PM
Thanks so much Grace! I e-mailed you back.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| grace gerber |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 10:34:57 AM
I sent my answers to email Channah sorry it is a bit lengthy but I hope it helps.
As for the expense of the goats it really depends on what you are purchasing. They can start at around $100.00 and go up from there. I raise Cashmere, Cashgora and Angora - their are difference in prices depending also on ago, sex and fleece quality. I will be selling some this year but will not post till next month on my blog those who will be available. I received a wonderful new camera for my birthday but I am still trying to figure it all out so photos of the goats will be coming soon - still on page 67 of the instruction manual. Be Patient with me - this old gal is not real techno.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| maggie14 |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 09:52:26 AM
Grace, I e-mailed you.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| maggie14 |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 09:43:17 AM
Hi Grace!! Are fiber goats really expensive?!? I am hoping to get some next year but right now am earning money from my home job to help pay for them.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| grace gerber |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 09:30:20 AM
Oh Sherrye - Let's talk fiber goats - my Love of my Life and full time business. I just got back from the barn hand shearing with scissors a one year old girl "With Horns" cashgora named Lilly. She stood for her first hair cut, no tying down or bulling - she could have used her horns but instead the trust we have made the process gentle and calm. I can not wait to talk fiber with you.....
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| maggie14 |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 07:56:12 AM
And another thing you have to remember is that everyone is going to try to get you to follow this way and that. You just have to do your reserch on your own and find the best way for your goats or animals. Ok, that is my 2 cents. lol
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| sherrye |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 07:54:35 AM
grace and the other gals had posted on this. i went back and read them. i then realized how natural it is to keep them. i have found that the goats and cows do not hurt me with their horns. even my vet stated he preferred to keep horns on. when grace said it helps them be cooler i thought ok horns it is. this has been a good post to read. i am now going to the sheep and goat post. i want a fiber goat next. i need wool.so thank you for an active forward working post and thoughts. i always learn something new each day on farm girl. happy days sherrye
the learn as we go silk purse farm
farmgirl #1014
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| maggie14 |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 07:44:21 AM
Yup I agree Grace.
I did alot of reserch and talked to some people on Animal husbandry, etc. It is very good for everyone to know both sides of the story. I can see why you want to point that out.
Anyway, thank you for all your help.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| grace gerber |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 07:13:37 AM
Marly, if you wish to understand the other side of this topic I invite you to read and join in the conversation at All Things Sheep and Goats". This topic seems get one sided and folks are not always willing to understand all the information that is out there. For those of us who do this for a living and for many years do have hard facts that are not with the over vocal party lines. Many of the FACTS are not that but rather what some folks do and I can assure you that there are hundreds of thousands of us who run businesses with happy, healthy, horned goats. So I hope you might read on and join us in boardening the view of animal husbandry. I also offer if anyone of specific questions for managing their animals I am always open to assisting you to find all the information out there. We are all now becoming aware that what has been done with animals over the years is not always correct and just because a practice has been done does not make it right. I know I changed the rules in 4H here that horned goats and sheep are now very much able to be shown in the ring - it was done with facts and experience. Also, any animal can be of danger if not managed correctly. How many house dogs bite their owners yet we do not pull their teeth on the chance they might bite. Millions of dogs are put to sleep because their owner did not do their part in raising and working with the animal. Responsible ownership comes in many levels.
I am sure you can see that many of us are very passionate about our animals and there are always more then one side. Blessings and thanks for taking an interest in the welfare of goats and sheep.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| maggie14 |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 10:21:36 PM
Hi Marly, You are right. Not all goats use them in a bad way. Some do and some don't. And in the dehorning they don't yank them off. lol That just sounds so crul. But really you get a dehorning iron, heat it up and, well really you burn around the horn. But you only leave the iron on for 3 to 4 seconds so it is quick but still I don't like it. I see both sides of having goats with horns and without. I am going to get some "horn" tape and tape the ends of there horns because they have sharp points and it could hurt one of my goats that doesn't have horns. They will all be together so I don't want to take any chances with my goats that don't have horns.
Anyway, that is my opinion. I really love how Fias co farms put it so I thought I would just post the artical. And yes I have done tons of reserch on the subject. :) I want to do whats right for my goats. That is all.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
| Bear5 |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 9:53:55 PM
Thanks, Channah for sharing your news with me. I can see that you've done your homework on this issue. I was really joking about the dehorning. I meant to say if I had a horn, I would not want anyone to yank it off. LOL. I do understand now why some goats must be dehorned. But, do all goats use their horns in bad ways? I also liked the way you wrote some don't agree and that it was each their own. True.
Marly
"It's only when we truly know and understand that we have a limited time on earth- and that we have no way of knowing when our time is up- that we will begin to live each day to the fullest, as if it was the only one we had." Elisabeth Kurler-Ross |
| maggie14 |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 9:42:06 PM
Hi Marly!! This is why I dehorned my goats. Hope this helps you. It is an artical by fias co farms and I really believe alot of there things.
First off, let me start by saying, you do not want a goat with horns. It is your decision to make, of course, but I'm talking to you now as a friend, let me say that, from personal experience, and knowing human nature, goats and goat behavior very well, please, do not get a goat with horns or you may regret it later. If your goats have kids, please be responsible and disbud them at the proper time. Yes, horns can be very beautiful, but they are also very dangerous, to you, your family and other goats. Even if the goat is a pet, and friendly, he/she can accidentally, or on purpose, seriously injure other goats, animals and humans. Goats learn to use their horns; they can, and will, use them on their herd mates (goats can, at times, be very violent with each other: it is their natural way). I know of a goat that gored her herd mate, while they were playing, through the chest, missing her heart by 1/2 inch. A loving pet goat with horns could easily, even if accentually, injure a child- it's just not worth the risk to your children. I hate to see a pet goat end up in the auction barn because they hurt their owner, their owners children, or their fellow herd mate.
Horns can, and do, get caught in fences, which can be very dangerous for the goat, causing her to strangle him or herself, or leaving him/her open to attack by predators. I knew a goat that got their horns caught is a low basketball net for an entire night. Don't think that if your goat has horns, he can/will defend himself against dogs (no matter what someone told you). If a dog wants to kill a goat, and he can get through your fence, he will kill the goat, with or without horns.
If you are going to show your goat, or the goat is a 4-H project, he/she must be disbudded.
Disbudding (removing the horn buds) is our least favorite part of goat keeping; we hate it more than I can tell you, but it has to be done. Sometimes we all have to do things that are not pleasant; this is part of the responsibility we take on when we get decide to care for our animals. Disbudding it has to be done at the right time or scurs can result. Our philosophy with all things goats is that each individual is different, and you must take this into consideration.
We are strong advocates of animal rights and ethical treatment. There are those who argue that disbudding is inhumane, that is their right: everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Though, it is easy to judge this issue on the simple fact it 'sounds' inhumane, but we live this issue and have first hand experience, so we are well equipped to be able to see the various sides of this particular situation. We have personally struggled with this issue and after considering and weighing all the options, we have come to the conclusion that it is in the goat's best interest to disbud them. In the long term, they will have not only safer lives (less likely to injure others) but they will also make better herd mates, and safer pets and companions, thus helping to guarantee they can live out their lives in good, loving, caring, permanent homes. Even if the goat is a pet, and friendly, he/she can accidentally, or on purpose, seriously injure other goats, animals and humans. I can cite many examples of this happening, to humans as well as other animals. Goats with horns can end up in the auction/sale barn because they injured their herd mate, owner or owner's family, and could end up living out less then ideal lives, or even being slaughtered. It's certainly better to go through a one time, 10 second, painful experience, then for a herd animal to be penned, or tied out alone, by themselves for the rest of their life, or worse yet, dead. We certainly don't disbud our kids because we enjoy it; we hate disbudding. We do it because it is in the best interest of the goat and is the responsible thing to do as the goat's caretaker. Sometimes life is not all simple & easy/ Black & White. We all go through difficult and painful experiences in our lives- that is the nature of life. It is our intent for our kids, that going through one short difficult experience when they are very young will alleviate more painful and difficult experiences later in life. When done correctly, with or without anesthesia, the goat suffers no long term negative physical or emotional effects from the procedure. Even though it seems certain they should "hold it against you", they never do, and I am speaking for many years of experience.
Hugs!!
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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