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Barnyard Buddies:  Horned goats!  |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
 Posted - May 08 2010 : 10:25:53 AM
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Hi everyone, well it looks like I am going to have horned goats.
Eli and Elinor's horns have grown so much that I know it is too late to dehorn them. I guess God answered my prayers because I was really unsure if I should dehorn them or not. I didn't do what people have told me and dehorn at 4 to 10 days old because my babies were really, really small and I knew they couldn't handle it.
My other baby Ebony already has horn. I did try ( as you all remember) to dehorn her but we didn't leave the iron on long enough so they have grown back. Now I have a mix of dehorned goats and horned goats. lol
So here is my question.... I have spent lots of time finding out why you should dehorn, now I want to know why they should have horns.
And if anyone has anything else about having horned goats please let me know. I have a good feeling about this and am so glad I don't have to stand and watch them dehorn my babies.
Hugs!!
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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1badmamawolf
True Blue Farmgirl
2199 Posts
Teresa
"Bent Fence Farms"
Ca
USA
2199 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 10:38:06 AM
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My goats all have their horns, and the reason is, because it helps them protect themselves and their kids from predators. Just be sure you train your babies not to head butt you, otherwise you will be in for lots of bruises.
"Treat the earth well, it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 11:25:03 AM
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I do not know if you remember but I answered that question in great length on the "Sheep and Goat Forum" when you where first thinking about doing dehorning. Instead of rewriting all the lines of reasoning I might be just easier to re-read those entries...
I have had goats - milk, fiber and hundred of sheep - horn are not the problem that everyone makes them out to be. Mother Nature has given them horns for many, many reasons.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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Marybeth
True Blue Farmgirl
6418 Posts
Mary Beth
Stanwood
Wa 98292
USA
6418 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 1:11:13 PM
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I agree with Grace. Horns are there for a reason and they protect for many reasons. My goats have never used their horns against anyone or even my dogs but probably would against a natural predator. I am glad you left them. MB
http://www.smallcityscenes.blogspot.com
www.day4plus.blogspot.com
"Life may not be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well dance!" |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 3:51:18 PM
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ok I'll take a look Grace.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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gypsy goat
True Blue Farmgirl
673 Posts
mary jo
michigan
673 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 5:58:28 PM
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my friend has horned goats and he uses them to hold on to stablize them when he is working with them he also told me that it helps them stay cool when it's hot-i don't know if that is true or if he was pulling my leg
farmgirl#1362 whatever you are be a good one-abe lincoln |
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miss kris
True Blue Farmgirl
118 Posts
kris
mi
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 6:47:17 PM
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I have heard about the horns helping to keep them cooler in wild goats/sheep. It probably is the same for our goats. Channah, the breeder has not dehorned my kids yet and what....they are about 1 month or so old. He plans on dehorning them yet.
I have had a horned goat and for what ever reason, I get hurt often..the goat wasn't raised on my place, it was nothing serious, but since I don't have predators around here and they are protected quite well = I would dehorn my kids if I kept them. The one I had was always getting caught in places because of the horns...that is hard when they think they are in serious danger and you are trying to help them. Just my opinion - Have a good night Kris
For I know the plans I have for you...Jer.29:11 |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 10:01:43 PM
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Thank you Kris for you opinion. :) I like to know what other people think. I'm not going to say anything because last time I got it big trouble for stating my opinion. lol Anyway, thank you all so much!
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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miss kris
True Blue Farmgirl
118 Posts
kris
mi
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 09:29:05 AM
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Channah - Did you think you got into trouble with me? You can't hear my tone of voice but it is not a grabby one or defensive. Sometimes I can be ridiculously defensive..... Kris : )
For I know the plans I have for you...Jer.29:11 |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 5:09:14 PM
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I e-mailed you Kris.
Hugs!!
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl
11303 Posts
kristin
chickamauga
ga
USA
11303 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 06:57:41 AM
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Channah, a friend came and disbudded 5 of my little bucklings about a month ago. I have already had to redo 2 of them and it didn't help. And the 2 Nubians I noticed have some little scurs coming out. The oldest buck was too big to do so he will have horns. And I can already tell he is the boss of them all. All the others will have bloody heads and he will have some blood on his horns. SO I know it's him. But he will be going to his new home soon. And I will probably just butcher all the others if I can't sell them. So it doesn't matter if they come back or not. I have just had the worst luck with horns the past 3 years.
I think someone makes a horn cover. Maybe Hoagger. I'll have to check and see. It might help protect the unhorned goats.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 08:16:20 AM
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Channah, I think you are still thinking that if someone does have a different way of doing things that we are judging you - speaking for myself I am not. You asked the question and we give our answers.
I have had horned and polled goats for 14 years - I have never taken horns from any of my animals - those who came to me from bad homes for many reasons did not have their horns. I also found that those without horns where much more aggressive - they can still knock you to the ground without horns. My huge billies have horn spans of over 4 feet and never have they used them against me and any others. O.K. maybe it is the way I run my farm, my animals or whatever but every horned animal I have sold has never hurt anyone when they left here either...
Horns are there for so many reasons and like I said I have listed those reasons many times on many of the question forums in fact I think it was one of yours which you felt that you where being judged.
I know that their are many protective equipment for rams and billies with horns if your training of them is not working. I also found that animals without horns get their head stuck in more fence and equipment then those with horns because the horns make it much hard to put their heads into places they should not. Also, if you can not find someone who does the horns correctly the first time why would you want to keep re-injuring that poor animal again?
One thing I tell folks is "Raising animals are like raising two legged kids - everyone has them, everyone thinks their way is best, some should never have them and if you do have them do the best you can". I only offer my information because I have raised hundreds of different animals and about 3/4 of them have horns - I really do know what I speak of and just wish to help those who are learning.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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miss kris
True Blue Farmgirl
118 Posts
kris
mi
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 12:46:20 PM
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One thing for sure.....we farmgirls do have our opinions. Well, most people do - Sometimes we are sensitive to what other people say or how they say it. Or we are just having a "day". I know I do...
One thing I do know is this forum is valuable - we just need to give people space to do it their way or say it their way and be careful for each others feelings. I have made a few mistakes lately but that is how we learn (usually)to do it another way. I have done somethings right which may be different than someone else - different does not mean wrong. Well, that is all. (smiling) Kris
For I know the plans I have for you...Jer.29:11 |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 4:27:06 PM
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Thank you all ladies for your help. I didn't want to say anything because I didn't want this to become a " fight" like it did last time a little.
I am not worried about my goats having horns. I know that God put them there for a resone. I am going to get some goat horn tape to tape the ends of their horns. My other goats without horns are not aggressive at all so I disagree with that. But I have not had that much experience with animals that are hurt, etc. Only a few cases where I have dealt with animals from bad homes so I am no expert. I don't want to cause a fight here ladies. I just wanted to know some good points on having animals with horns.
Anyway, thank you all so much for your help!
hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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Bear5
True Blue Farmgirl
13055 Posts
Louisiana/Texas
USA
13055 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 8:56:39 PM
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Channah:
I don't know much about goats, but why do people dehorn the goats? I'm glad I'm not a goat. I'd want to keep my horns. LOL..
Marly
"It's only when we truly know and understand that we have a limited time on earth- and that we have no way of knowing when our time is up- that we will begin to live each day to the fullest, as if it was the only one we had." Elisabeth Kurler-Ross |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 9:42:06 PM
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Hi Marly!! This is why I dehorned my goats. Hope this helps you. It is an artical by fias co farms and I really believe alot of there things.
First off, let me start by saying, you do not want a goat with horns. It is your decision to make, of course, but I'm talking to you now as a friend, let me say that, from personal experience, and knowing human nature, goats and goat behavior very well, please, do not get a goat with horns or you may regret it later. If your goats have kids, please be responsible and disbud them at the proper time. Yes, horns can be very beautiful, but they are also very dangerous, to you, your family and other goats. Even if the goat is a pet, and friendly, he/she can accidentally, or on purpose, seriously injure other goats, animals and humans. Goats learn to use their horns; they can, and will, use them on their herd mates (goats can, at times, be very violent with each other: it is their natural way). I know of a goat that gored her herd mate, while they were playing, through the chest, missing her heart by 1/2 inch. A loving pet goat with horns could easily, even if accentually, injure a child- it's just not worth the risk to your children. I hate to see a pet goat end up in the auction barn because they hurt their owner, their owners children, or their fellow herd mate.
Horns can, and do, get caught in fences, which can be very dangerous for the goat, causing her to strangle him or herself, or leaving him/her open to attack by predators. I knew a goat that got their horns caught is a low basketball net for an entire night. Don't think that if your goat has horns, he can/will defend himself against dogs (no matter what someone told you). If a dog wants to kill a goat, and he can get through your fence, he will kill the goat, with or without horns.
If you are going to show your goat, or the goat is a 4-H project, he/she must be disbudded.
Disbudding (removing the horn buds) is our least favorite part of goat keeping; we hate it more than I can tell you, but it has to be done. Sometimes we all have to do things that are not pleasant; this is part of the responsibility we take on when we get decide to care for our animals. Disbudding it has to be done at the right time or scurs can result. Our philosophy with all things goats is that each individual is different, and you must take this into consideration.
We are strong advocates of animal rights and ethical treatment. There are those who argue that disbudding is inhumane, that is their right: everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Though, it is easy to judge this issue on the simple fact it 'sounds' inhumane, but we live this issue and have first hand experience, so we are well equipped to be able to see the various sides of this particular situation. We have personally struggled with this issue and after considering and weighing all the options, we have come to the conclusion that it is in the goat's best interest to disbud them. In the long term, they will have not only safer lives (less likely to injure others) but they will also make better herd mates, and safer pets and companions, thus helping to guarantee they can live out their lives in good, loving, caring, permanent homes. Even if the goat is a pet, and friendly, he/she can accidentally, or on purpose, seriously injure other goats, animals and humans. I can cite many examples of this happening, to humans as well as other animals. Goats with horns can end up in the auction/sale barn because they injured their herd mate, owner or owner's family, and could end up living out less then ideal lives, or even being slaughtered. It's certainly better to go through a one time, 10 second, painful experience, then for a herd animal to be penned, or tied out alone, by themselves for the rest of their life, or worse yet, dead. We certainly don't disbud our kids because we enjoy it; we hate disbudding. We do it because it is in the best interest of the goat and is the responsible thing to do as the goat's caretaker. Sometimes life is not all simple & easy/ Black & White. We all go through difficult and painful experiences in our lives- that is the nature of life. It is our intent for our kids, that going through one short difficult experience when they are very young will alleviate more painful and difficult experiences later in life. When done correctly, with or without anesthesia, the goat suffers no long term negative physical or emotional effects from the procedure. Even though it seems certain they should "hold it against you", they never do, and I am speaking for many years of experience.
Hugs!!
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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Bear5
True Blue Farmgirl
13055 Posts
Louisiana/Texas
USA
13055 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 9:53:55 PM
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Thanks, Channah for sharing your news with me. I can see that you've done your homework on this issue. I was really joking about the dehorning. I meant to say if I had a horn, I would not want anyone to yank it off. LOL. I do understand now why some goats must be dehorned. But, do all goats use their horns in bad ways? I also liked the way you wrote some don't agree and that it was each their own. True.
Marly
"It's only when we truly know and understand that we have a limited time on earth- and that we have no way of knowing when our time is up- that we will begin to live each day to the fullest, as if it was the only one we had." Elisabeth Kurler-Ross |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 10:21:36 PM
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Hi Marly, You are right. Not all goats use them in a bad way. Some do and some don't. And in the dehorning they don't yank them off. lol That just sounds so crul. But really you get a dehorning iron, heat it up and, well really you burn around the horn. But you only leave the iron on for 3 to 4 seconds so it is quick but still I don't like it. I see both sides of having goats with horns and without. I am going to get some "horn" tape and tape the ends of there horns because they have sharp points and it could hurt one of my goats that doesn't have horns. They will all be together so I don't want to take any chances with my goats that don't have horns.
Anyway, that is my opinion. I really love how Fias co farms put it so I thought I would just post the artical. And yes I have done tons of reserch on the subject. :) I want to do whats right for my goats. That is all.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 07:13:37 AM
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Marly, if you wish to understand the other side of this topic I invite you to read and join in the conversation at All Things Sheep and Goats". This topic seems get one sided and folks are not always willing to understand all the information that is out there. For those of us who do this for a living and for many years do have hard facts that are not with the over vocal party lines. Many of the FACTS are not that but rather what some folks do and I can assure you that there are hundreds of thousands of us who run businesses with happy, healthy, horned goats. So I hope you might read on and join us in boardening the view of animal husbandry. I also offer if anyone of specific questions for managing their animals I am always open to assisting you to find all the information out there. We are all now becoming aware that what has been done with animals over the years is not always correct and just because a practice has been done does not make it right. I know I changed the rules in 4H here that horned goats and sheep are now very much able to be shown in the ring - it was done with facts and experience. Also, any animal can be of danger if not managed correctly. How many house dogs bite their owners yet we do not pull their teeth on the chance they might bite. Millions of dogs are put to sleep because their owner did not do their part in raising and working with the animal. Responsible ownership comes in many levels.
I am sure you can see that many of us are very passionate about our animals and there are always more then one side. Blessings and thanks for taking an interest in the welfare of goats and sheep.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 07:44:21 AM
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Yup I agree Grace.
I did alot of reserch and talked to some people on Animal husbandry, etc. It is very good for everyone to know both sides of the story. I can see why you want to point that out.
Anyway, thank you for all your help.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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sherrye
True Blue Farmgirl
3775 Posts
sherry
bend in the high desert
oregon
USA
3775 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 07:54:35 AM
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grace and the other gals had posted on this. i went back and read them. i then realized how natural it is to keep them. i have found that the goats and cows do not hurt me with their horns. even my vet stated he preferred to keep horns on. when grace said it helps them be cooler i thought ok horns it is. this has been a good post to read. i am now going to the sheep and goat post. i want a fiber goat next. i need wool.so thank you for an active forward working post and thoughts. i always learn something new each day on farm girl. happy days sherrye
the learn as we go silk purse farm
farmgirl #1014
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 07:56:12 AM
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And another thing you have to remember is that everyone is going to try to get you to follow this way and that. You just have to do your reserch on your own and find the best way for your goats or animals. Ok, that is my 2 cents. lol
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 09:30:20 AM
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Oh Sherrye - Let's talk fiber goats - my Love of my Life and full time business. I just got back from the barn hand shearing with scissors a one year old girl "With Horns" cashgora named Lilly. She stood for her first hair cut, no tying down or bulling - she could have used her horns but instead the trust we have made the process gentle and calm. I can not wait to talk fiber with you.....
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 09:43:17 AM
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Hi Grace!! Are fiber goats really expensive?!? I am hoping to get some next year but right now am earning money from my home job to help pay for them.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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maggie14
True Blue Farmgirl
6784 Posts
Hannah
Washington
USA
6784 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 09:52:26 AM
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Grace, I e-mailed you.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Just a small town country girl trying to live her dreams. :) |
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Barnyard Buddies: Horned goats! |
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Horned goats!
