| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 20 2010 : 7:12:34 PM
We dehorned Ebony Jane. All I can say is, it was terrible.
Just thought I would let ya'll know.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 22 2010 : 4:39:43 PM
Those do look soo good Grace!!! I will have to try it!!
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| kristin sherrill |
Posted - Mar 22 2010 : 4:29:27 PM
They really are beautiful goats. And the horns on that buck! I would keep them, too. Just to see how long they'll get. And what a car washer. I need him right now, too. And that's so sweet about Monica and Mishka. You just never know how an animal will react. Good for her. I am going to have to try your recipe for those chocolate cashews. Yum! I have a fridge in my milkroom.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 22 2010 : 4:20:05 PM
Grace, You animals are just beautiful!! They look so healthy and happy!! I read Sherlocks story. So funny!! I think we could use him here as we have 3 cars. I mean 1 truck and 2 cars. :) Are your goats fiber goats? Thanks so much for sharing them with me! There stunning!
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Mar 22 2010 : 3:57:00 PM
I have some of the pictures and stories of the new kids up on my blog - also one about my Sherlock - he is a full horned big billy. I would love for you to visit if you have a chance and leave a comment if you wish - love visitors, just leave your shoes at the door.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| solilly |
Posted - Mar 22 2010 : 3:05:43 PM
Grace and Channah you two are great I think both of you have put your thoghts and feelings on the line and no one meant to hurt any one and that is why we are all sisters. This is good for all of us. Love Lilly
learning the life I always wanted. |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 22 2010 : 07:30:37 AM
oh I would love to see pictures!!!! I am so glad we are still friends!! You really have truly helped so much! Both you and Kris and the other wonderful goat ladies have helped me alot! Thank you all again!!!
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 10:21:27 PM
Heck - it takes a lot more then this to get me not to like you... You know that I am always here for you and please never take things that I type as a personal attack - trust me I am really here to help. I know how hard it is to make those types of decissions and I want you to feel strong in your choices.
Now I hope everyone takes a deep breathe, goes out and hugs their four legged family members and has a restful sleep. Monday morning will bring all new adventures. I hope to post tomorrow some of the pictures of the new goat babies - they got to play outside after a big snow storm Saturday and just before the next storm will arrive on Tuesday - life's little joys.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 9:53:14 PM
Grace, their are no worries! And I want to thank you again for your help!! I know you love your animals with a pashion and are doing what is right for them! It is so hard when posting because so many times it comes out the wrong way. It is very diffrent than talking face to face. You have way more experience than me and I love your input! All of your ladies input is wonderful!! I gave Ebony and great big hug and kiss for you!! I hope we can still be friends. It seems I always take things personal. So please forgive me for that.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 9:43:58 PM
My word how things can just get way out of hand. Kris, no worries with me and you - I understand that typing is not like being face to face - I am not trying to say anyone's decission is right or wrong - I am simply trying to pass information on. I agree everyone's farm is different - but I also know that unless you are able to hear (Or read) other information you might not be getting a full picture. The information I passed on was not only from my farm but the hundreds I shear for, vet for and sell too. Since I also ran hundreds of sheep, goats, alpacas and llamas I am also able to see the interaction of many species together and many social structures including running a farm business with the general public coming and going.
I guess I should stick with four legged comunication because somewhere this got all screwed up. Sorry if you felt I was judging you or if other's felt their decissions were being questioned. For those who do not know me you might want to read my blog - you will then understand a bit more about me and my farm.
I wish you all great joy with your animals.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 9:33:46 PM
Thank you soo much Karrieann! I always try and make everyone happy but am finding that I can't. You are soo sweet to think of me! Thank you my friend!!!
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| Karrieann |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 9:23:15 PM
Channah,
You did what is the right thing for you to do. Everyone's circumstance is different from others. Don't worry about what others say, for no one knows your shoes. I am very sure that you arrived at your decision with great thought and research, also you had your parents advice and wisdom. No one has judge you, nor should anyone either.
Please, rest assured, you did what you had to do and your choice is the right one... the right one for Channah and nobody else.
It is ok!
:o)
HUGS!
Karrieann ~ Farmgirl Sister #766 (29 Sept 2009)
My Blog: ...following my heart, dreams and Jesus
...http://karrieann-followingmyheartandjesus.blogspot.com/
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| sherrye |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 8:10:56 PM
well thought i would chime in too. it is truly a hard choice. our dexter girls are out on pasture. we have coyotes here. where the girls live there were 5 packs howling in the canyon to each other. lisa my friend took her gun out and shot it to get them moving. the girls will calve in april and may and will need their horns. on the other hand i chose goats with no horns. grandkids love the goats. so buttercup has horns. i milk her. she is a mini jersey cross.i hate her horns. yet they are beautiful. she is careful but she uses them for sure. i thought about the band system. papa says they are who she is. she is very cute with her jersey eyes and big old horns. so i am divided.i agree its more natural with them. i get my shirts and pants caught on her horns daily. she bathes me with her tongue while i brush her.made more cheese. gets better every time. so far colby wins and mozz. too just a thought or two i have been pondering. i helped a friend run cows through a chute for vacs and bangs. they banded a bulls horn. it had to come off. it was growing into his head every 6 monthe or so. just like castrating only its a band for the horn.seems more humane than cutting them off. especially if done in winter no fly season. whats your thoughts? sherrye
the learn as we go silk purse farm
farmgirl #1014
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| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 6:22:15 PM
It would have been diffrent if my goats where in the wild or if I had a big herd of goats.I know there is a resone for why they have horns. But here it is diffrent. Here there are little kids everywhere, I have to worry about neighbors, fences,etc. My goats are put in a little shed at night and it would be very easy for an udder to get hurt or worse. Now if I lived out in the middle of no where and had lots of room for my goats to wander than I would let them have horns. I did what I new was best and I am sorry you ladies disagree.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| Bear5 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 5:47:36 PM
Oh Channah: At least it is done now. Many years ago, as a little girl, I remember my dad de-horning a cow with really big horns. That cow really was bellowing. Sorry it was rough on you. There are time when we must do things we must do. God Bless.
Marly
"It's only when we truly know and understand that we have a limited time on earth- and that we have no way of knowing when our time is up- that we will begin to live each day to the fullest, as if it was the only one we had." Elisabeth Kurler-Ross |
| solilly |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 5:06:55 PM
I feel for you Channah, I also like Grace know they do not need to be dehorned. When I was growing up we had goats with horns we let have babies and milked. What happens, happens that is life. If they should be cut then they would not have them to begin with and they would not come back at all. God gave those animals horns for a reason. Man needs to learn to work with the animal as if they were the animal and not a man. Just like chickens and cows you work with them as if you were one of them and things are different. Sorry for all your hard day. God bless you little one. You will be ok you did what you thought was right. Lilly 
learning the life I always wanted. |
| kristin sherrill |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 4:45:15 PM
Grace, I emailed you. And I will apologize here also. I did not mean to sound the way I did. I very much value you and your advice and opinions. You have been doing this way longer than I ever have and know so much more than I could ever hope to know. I hope you will keep giving us your great advice. I like you too much! I just jumped too fast. I will think before I write anything again.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 3:35:29 PM
I am glad you told me what you do Grace. I think it is a wonderful thing and your goats must be very happy! Thanks again! It is good to hear both sides.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 3:02:52 PM
Kris - I in no way said she did a horrible thing! I do take offense to that - there are millions of owners who do not disbud their goats and have wonderful experiences. Your right it is a personal choice and sometimes you have to know why a practice started to understand why other do not go along with it. I never take the care of my animals lightly nor do I tell others what to do - I simple say what I have done and why and I thought that is what this site was about - sorry if my statements where not taken in the way I was sending them - information first.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 12:53:49 PM
It's fine Kris. I do see her point. I was just thinking of Ebony and wanted to do the right thing. I would have done things diffrent if they had had horns. Thank you ladies for you help and support. :) Ebony is back to her old self and is very happy as far as I can tell. :)
hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| nubidane |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 12:46:56 PM
Channah
Maybe Lindas will pop in here. She disbuds her goats, & while it is no fun job, she does it for many of the reasons you stated. Don't be hard on yourself. I agree with you.
Linda hates it too, but does a beautiful job & I have never seen any of her horns grow back in
Don't feel bad, there are many of us that feel the same way. |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 12:34:21 PM
I thought I was doing right for Ebony but maybe not. I just know how they love to play fight so much and thought it would be best to go ahead and do it. Thank you Grace for your help.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| kristin sherrill |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 12:32:53 PM
I know I posted here last year about my experience with a goat that had horns. A friend wanted me to keep her because she didn't have time to milk her and mine had not kidded yet. She had some horns and she knew how to use them. She did use them quite frequently. On the other hornless goats. She was constantly gouging them in the stomachs and rears. I was so ready to take her back.
I think if I had gotten my does with horns it would be different. But all of them were already disbudded when I got them. Except Sandy and she was just a few days old. I took her to a vet friend who put her to sleep and disbudded her. Very humane.
I just have to say that the kids are ok and forget about what just happened as soon as they are back with the mothers and nurse. I don't know this for a fact but I have seen and heard them cry while they are being held and while it is being done and within minutes of being back with the mother they are fine. I have never had any of them become sick or depressed or dispondant or die or get infected or hate me later.
It is a personal choice that millions of people make every day. And I really don't think anyone needs to tell Channah that she has done a horrible thing to her little goat. I think she feels bad enough right now without someone telling her. I think she did the right thing for her situation. And I can imagine little Ebony is just fine right now.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 12:29:29 PM
I don't really know what to say Grace. I guess I have done what I have done. I would have done diffrently if they had horns.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 12:24:34 PM
I know the owners of Fias Co Farm and for the past 14 years this has been always a subject when goat owners get together. Her is the other side - I have had goats who came without horns to this farm. I have watched my herds very carefully and this is what I have learned. Goats without horns still stick their heads thru fences in fact more times then goats with horns because with the correct fencing a goat with horns can not get their head thru - therefore they are not going to hang themselves, get attacked or ruin fencing. The only time I had to cut a fence was for a non-horn goat who pushed her head and fron feet thru a fenceline. In 14 years I have NEVER and I repeat NEVER had a goat with horns even my breeding billied gore or cut another animal, human or pasture mate - that includes they have not attacked their dog protectors. I have had them protect themselves from a coyote and fox attack. If they did not have their horns I would hate to think what would have happened. I have however seen goats at other farms who did not have their horns and they where killed by dogs, coyotes, foxes and bears. I have also witnessed goats be much more aggressive because they did not have their horns - it is like if you had your hands tied behind your back all the time and was out numbered you would be on the defensive. I presently have 18 billies with huge horn spans - they have never gored, cut or killed any of the other goats. I have thos same billies in with llamas, alpacas, goats, dogs and humans and still no one has done any damage to anyone. If you have a dog that is not social or trained I would find them much more of a danger then a goat with horns.
I know this is a touchy subject - but just because a big farm does it does not mean it is right. Just because a big farm wishes to defend their position does not mean that all the facts are out there. I in no way am saying you do not have the right to do with you animals as you wish - Heck, folk take tails off of dogs and cut their ears just because it was a trend by large breeders and because someone said they could. Just like they clip the tips off of chicks beaks so they will not hurt each other - the only reason they hurt each other is because they are crowded into tiny spaces, no clean air, no room to move, horrible food conditions, genetically altered - anything but natural. If you have chickens who get plently of space, get to act like chickens and are not made into monsters there is no reason for them to hurt each other.
I have sat on 4H fair boards for 13 years - I stood up for those who wished to have their animals left intact as Mother Nature made them. This is the same agruement about the way we house them, feed them, breed them and such. You have to do your research and really think about does it make sense. Part of also making the correct breeding decissions is to see the animal in it's full creation. If the horns are taken we can not make informed decissions as to who should be bred and who should not. Weak, malformed horns is a genetic marker for other things and you then only get a half picture of the animal. Not the way I wish to make breeding decissions.
Sorry for the length but you might tell that I am very involved in this topic. I have sat on dozens of panels talking with and educating folks about this practice - trust me this only started once we crowed animals into closed barns and overbred, under valued and churred out an animal that would fit into our concept of farming.
I wish you luck and again I hope you will give Ebony a hug from this Goat owner....
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.artfire.com
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| maggie14 |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 11:09:45 AM
Thank you Karrieann. I really didn't want to do it. Neither of us did. But I would have done things diffrent if they did have horns.
Hugs,
Channah
Farmgirl sister #1219
Friendship is not something that can be bought, it is earned. |
