| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 5 acre Farmgirl |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 7:36:18 PM
Hello all Farmgirls....
My LGD is 10 yearsold, and has been by herself for 3 years(we sold all of our Dairy Goats), and we were worried about her bonding to us, well....she never was in the house until last winter(we have 20 below in the winter) and now she wants to come in all the time, so she truly has bonded to us...How about any others LGD'S?
Hugs...
Terri
Farmgirls are Farmgirls no matter where or how we live.....we can't help it! ;)
|
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Oct 14 2008 : 5:11:03 PM
Terri my heart just breaks for you and your husband. I am the one who has had to do those things - when my husband was alive I was the still the one. I know words will never be able to mend the break that these wonderful dogs make in our hearts - I have lost two and my oldest and dearest girl has been working her self into the ground having to be on mountain lion watch for the past two weeks. With all the losses I have experienced I still cry at the thought of my two pry's who are not with me anymore. I wished we could make it better but just try and remember all the great days - that is what I do when the tears start to roll down my checks. I also remind myself to spend as much time loving them while they are here. BIG HUGS and sloppy Pry kisses from the Funny Farm.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
|
| Jami |
Posted - Oct 14 2008 : 08:05:13 AM
Terri, my DH does "the deed" at our house too and he has the guts that I don't to do this. I am so grateful for it. He feels very bad about it but it's just what has to be done and he makes it a much better situation than a scary visit to the vets. You know how they all get so nervous about that!
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Oct 13 2008 : 7:40:39 PM
Oh man, Terri! One disaster after another. If it's any consolation, I FEEL your pain!!! Things go like that for ME too.
We have a tiny little kitten that got stepped on by someone (no one will admit it, of course, but I know for sure who DIDN'T do it!). He has been dragging himself around for a week now and it just breaks my heart to see him like that, but he seemed happy and pain free. My youngest son named him "Leutinant (sp?) Dan." (think "Forrest Gump") He was eating well (canned cat food and goats milk 3x a day) and his mamma was still nursing him a bit and keeping him clean. He was getting around pretty fast on those two front legs of his and even "playing" with the teenage cats. This evening though, when I went to feed the sheep I noticed something wasn't quite right with him. At first I thought he had some leaves stuck to him, but then I picked him up and realized .... no... it wasn't leaves. It was the bone of his right leg sticking out. He'd gotten hung up somewhere and, because he's basically paralyzed from the lower part of his back down, he didn't even feel it. But he DID feel it when I tried to pull the skin back over it. I thought about stitching him up, but I know it will just happen again somewhere else, so I've decided that it's time to let him go. Not an easy decision-- he's just about the cutest kitten I've ever seen and he's got such a WONDERFUL personality-- but it's not fair to let him suffer.
This has been a TERRIBLE year for me all around, as far as the animals are concerned. I've lost so many critters. My yr old laying hens to raccoons, MOST of my chicks to murdering RATS!! (close to 70 chicks), 4 newborn lambs, 3 newborn kids.... sigh..... But, when you have critters, some years are worse than others. I'm ready for a GOOD year to come. Hang in there Terri, and know that my thoughts and prayers are with you. ~~~ Hugs ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| misstilliewillie |
Posted - Oct 13 2008 : 7:28:37 PM
How sad and heartbreaking for you both...I'm so sorry!
I too dread the day when my Great Pyr, T.J. begins to have a hard time getting around. He's getting up a little slower now, sometimes he's slightly grouchy and grumpy, and he's seven..and I love him so~
livin' the sweet life! |
| 5 acre Farmgirl |
Posted - Oct 13 2008 : 05:11:17 AM
Thanks ladies..its time to really make a decision, I think it is hardest for my DH, he is the one who has to put her down, we just cant take her to the vet, she will have to go the way all of our others have,,,, , still waiting for DH to decide....
Then tonight, all of our chickens were stolen, what to do?
Farmgirl Sister #368
http://froccsfrillsfurbiloesandmore.blogspot.com
|
| Jami |
Posted - Oct 10 2008 : 09:02:43 AM
Terri, that's the hard part in being a good steward to our critters...making those hard choices when our heart strings are so attached. So, I feel for you...and feel bad for the dog but that's just life on the farm I suppose and sometimes it takes real guts...most days really huh? Hang in there, girl.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Oct 10 2008 : 07:59:24 AM
Oh Terri, I'm so sorry. I dread the day when my beloved Eli wakes up an "old man" and suffers the affects of old age. He's nearly 6yrs old now and I dread the thought of watching him decline as the years go by. I also know that large dogs don't live half as long as small ones. My prayers are with you. Hugs ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| chickabella |
Posted - Oct 10 2008 : 12:39:00 AM
Terri, I'm so sorry about your LGD health/age issues. Wish there was something more I could say. Blessings to you and your furry family member.
Farm blog: http://farmnatters.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/dasparky
Heart of Texas Farmgirls Chapter; Farmgirl Sisterhood Member #275
|
| 5 acre Farmgirl |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 12:14:35 PM
Our LGD is really getting tired, shes either 10 or 12, cannot hardly get up and is blind in one eye,,yesterday, I had some lady friends over and we made applesauce, she was laying on the porch, a friend of mine went to open the door and the dog growled at her......SHE HAS NEVER growled at anyone, we thinks she is ready to be put away, before she hurts anyone...my heart is broken, we have had her (as I stated at the beginning of this thread), since she was 4 days old....
 , but, everyones time comes sometime....
Farmgirl Sister #368
http//:froccsfrillsfurbiloesandmore.blogspot.com
|
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 11:56:39 AM
The reason I chose not to get a Donkey or a Llama was because I wanted something that had an equal advantage as the predators that roam our area-- T-E-E-T-H!!! I had talked to the ladies at my vets office about a flock guardian and they told me about a llama they were treating that had been savagely attacked by a pack of dogs. One on one they do well, or if there are just a few dogs (or Coyotes), but that poor llama was sadly outnumbered. Out of 30 of it's charges, only about 12 sheep survived (many with non-life theateneing injuries), and the poor llama had to fight for own it's life as well.
The problem we have around here is that so many people just let their dogs run loose and don't have a care for other people's livestock. (Until they have to PAY for the damage their dogs did). We also have a pack of feral dogs (VERY BIG DOGS!! I've seen them!!!) that the county doesn't seem in too big a hurry to get rid of.
But the story of that poor llama was the clincher for me. That's why I chose a dog instead of another type of guardian.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| Jami |
Posted - Oct 09 2008 : 06:41:58 AM
I have several friends who use guard donkeys and they work great. Eat the same feed as sheep too so that's a plus. I wouldn't laugh at anything if it works for ya!
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
| yarncrazy102 |
Posted - Oct 08 2008 : 7:34:31 PM
Our flock and pasture were small. We already had a "cattle" dog but she proved too bossy with the sheep. We mentioned it to a friend of ours and he said to look into getting a herd donkey. Don't laugh. We found one for less than another Collie and definitely less than a Prys. She was the best. We were besieged by coyotes (a pack with older pups) and she fought them off after gathering the flock into a circle in the lean-to we had in the pasture. I had the flu and my husband brought her up the back steps and, yes, into the kitchen so I could mend her lips. She was really nervous until she saw me. I had baby animals in my kitchen before but can honestly say without bleaking my eye that I had a 780 pound donkey in my kitchen. Ours was extremely gentle. She never kicked our farrier or the vet. Neither of whom she had great love for. When we left "farming", she was the last to go. She had to go to the right place for the right job. She did - another small flock in Southern Idaho.
From Cleveland to Idaho - what a ride! |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Oct 08 2008 : 10:48:19 AM
Thanks again Sherri for posting the info on the Anatolians. I was very impressed with the history of the breed, but not impressed with what the local CA breeders were telling me. But, after reading your post, it all makes sense to me now.
The Maremma breed is NOT recognized by the AKC. They have their own breed registry. I believe it's called "The Maremma Club of America" but I could be wrong. I haven't seen my dogs papers in years, since he's neutered, but it shouldn't be too hard for anyone interested in the breed to find out the proper registry name.
I SOOO agree with the disasterous record keeping and so called "acceptable" practices of the "AKC." It really IS about the $$$ and NOT the animals. (though to be fair, I'm sure there ARE people that are more careful, and ethical, in their breeding practices) I think that's why so many "New" breed registries are cropping up. People are begining to focus more on the health and well being of the various animals rather than the money involved in selling them. Any time money becomse the main focus of a breeders goals, it's all at the sacrifice of the animals they profess to "LOVE." Sad. VERY sad.....
I once saw an article on the AKC's practices in a copy of Readers Digest-- it read "What Have We Done to Man's Best Friend?" It was all about the indiscriminant breeding practices allowed (and possibly promoted) by the largest dog breed registry in the US. The statistics were FRIGHTENING!! It stated that the majority of large breed dogs suffered from severe Hip Dysplasia (which we all know about), that many breeds suffer from epilepsy, eye, skin, tooth and back problems etc... not to mention rampant STUPIDITY among many of the hunting breeds. One paragraph claimed that "Irish Setters are now so stupid that they could get lost at the end of their own leash!" It was funny the way it was worded, but the reality of it was very sad. I'm glad the specific breed registries (not associated with the AKC) are making a concerted effort to change all that and improve the health and vigor of the breeds they promote.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| chickabella |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 08:26:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jami
Treat it as you would picking out a nanny for your human kids because that's basically what you're doing for your critter family is tossing a caretaker into their midst and it's a real bossy one.
Nicely put, I like that!
Farm blog: http://farmnatters.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/dasparky
Heart of Texas Farmgirls Chapter; Farmgirl Sisterhood Member #275
|
| Jami |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 08:07:10 AM
Thanks for more info on the Anatolians. That's why there are so many breeds, so we can all find the ones that work for each of us and our flock situations. I say to do your homework if you're contemplating a LGD, go visit some working on farms and make an informed decision. I don't think it takes a pedigreed dog to be a LGD but certainly working parents, honest information from the breeder and a site visit to observe how they are introduced to livestock, etc. Treat it as you would picking out a nanny for your human kids because that's basically what you're doing for your critter family is tossing a caretaker into their midst and it's a real bossy one.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
| Keeper of the Past |
Posted - Oct 06 2008 : 07:20:55 AM
I have a friend that has sheep and raises pyrs...I am on the waiting list to get a puppy in about 3 months. I am looking forward to having some help with my woolies.
Thanks for all of the good information that you all have shared, it has helped me to make a decision that I have been rattling around for 2 years.
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
| Annab |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 03:11:32 AM
That's the only hangup I have w/ purebred dogs.
All the inbreeding and no wonder they have potential health problems.
When we were loking for another Belgian, I was half tempted to get one from overseas.
A good friend in the know said this was good ,but since they are from working lines and not show, they are not really hyper...but more driven. And since we don't have sheep- and don't care to have our chickens or us herded everywhere, and ultimately wanted just a good pet/fur baby, we stayed local. So far there have not been any health issues w/ our dog.
But -I also go the wholistic route too when it comes to food and basic vet care.
|
| Sheep Mom 2 |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 10:08:05 AM
I have to say here some history on the Anatolian and the breeders in your neck of the woods. I am very passionate about this issue because Anatolians have received a bad rap. The breeders I have been involved with have a very different approach to breeding the Anatolian than the club that originates in CA. The Ca group has been in it for the money and not the good of the breed. The group I have been involved with is very concerned with the blood lines and temperment of their dogs and a dog with any agression issues is spayed or neutered and those traits are not passed along. The CA group also has mega trouble with dysplaysia. The CA group also fought very hard for AKC recognition so they could export dogs to England who had messed up their own blood lines by closing their breed book about 20 years ago. AKC is not concerned with genetics - all they care about is pure bred it does not matter to AKC how closely related the dogs in question are. Anatolians come from Turkey and are the prime protection for the flocks and people in the wandering tribes there. They have been used as flock guardians for over a thousand years and are considered a national treasure. The Anatolian breed even appears on the cancellation of their mail! As a result of all the problems here due to indiscriminate breeders, it is nearly impossible to import a dog directly from Turkey anymore. Not because we won't let them in but because they won't let them out. The reason you couldn't get a straight answer from the breeder is the breeder couldn't answer your questions because she wasn't educated herself.
I agree with you - the dog should pick you and not the other way around. When working with the pups all pups were temperment tested and would not be placed in inappropriate homes. Anatolian pups should never be removed from a litter prior to 12 weeks old as the mom trains them. The breeder that I worked with here (who sadly passed away 2 yrs ago) was partly responsible for bringing the breed here from Turkey. I never met an overly aggressive Anatolian but then again everyone I knew who had them were educated on how to train the dog in the first place.
I don't have Anatolians right now because I couldn't find a local breeder with blood lines I trust either. I would have had to pay a thousand dollars for a pup and pay to fly it in which was too spendy for me. It breaks my heart what has been done to this noble and wonderful breed. One of the males that I had was a Turkish import - the other was first generation American bred and both my girls were from Turkish import parents. My dogs were always around lots of people - kids, my customers and potential puppy buyers (I did one litter for my friend after she became ill and couldn't take care of her litter) and I never had one ounce of indiscriminate agression.
Sadly this is just another example of dollars before care - not too dissimilar to genetically modified food. I don't blame Turkey for no longer allowing their national treasures into our hands. |
| Annab |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 10:01:52 AM
Beings in the zoo field, I know all about the anatolians and the work being done over seas in conjunction w/ cheetahs. It's pretty cool.
For our needs, an overall good guard dog would be nice for us and the chickens. We get visitors from friends and family all the time, and some have small kids. I'd feel terrible if someone got nipped due a basic instinctual issue.
My Belgian isn't a nipper, but she is mouthy. Has been from day 1. |
| chickabella |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 04:40:18 AM
Tracy, Jami: For what it's worth, I -have- spoken with other farm Pyr breeders and Pyr rescue and rehabilitation, and they agree that if the dog is not a full-time out-in-the-field dog, basic manner training is a must. I made sure to do my homework before getting a LGD. Since we only have eight acres, the dogs were going to be around the house too much not to have some basic manners, which I've been giving to them - but only very basic stuff. Their first job is guarding. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.
Farm blog: http://farmnatters.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/dasparky
Heart of Texas Farmgirls Chapter; Farmgirl Sisterhood Member #275
|
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 11:02:01 PM
Thank you for chiming in on the Anatolian breed Sheri. I talked to one breeder about those dogs and she had a lot of problems with them "going after people" -- the BREEDERS words, not mine. I also tried to get information from another breeder about HER Anatolians and she would NOT give me any straight answers. It was VERY frustrating for me. I mean, if her dogs were so great, WHY wouldn't she tell me anything about them? Maybe I was unfortunate and found the wrong breeders to talk to.
It would have been much EASIER to buy an Anotolian or a Pyr, there are so many available in our area -- but I chose a Maremma instead, though I had to go all the way to Oregon to get him. I spent an entire year reserching the different breeds, getting information from the breed registries, reading all the information on the different rescue sites, etc.. but, after all that, I felt that the "local" breeds were just not the right dogs for me.
My Eli is such a GREAT dog!!! He never harms the lambs or kids, and he always seems to know when they are coming. He loves his babies and is an EXCELLENT Nanny. I have also never really had a problem introducing new animals to the farm. He may fuss for a day or two and keep the new comers away from the other animals until he's SURE they are ok, but once he deems them worthy, he gets along fine with them.
But, anyone who's ever had a dog of ANY kind knows that not every dog will be a good one. There are always exceptions, and I was very blessed to find such a Fantastic dog!!! (Actually, HE chose ME! I find that to be the best way to go about getting a dog-- and I've never been wrong! They've all been wonderful, WONDERFUL dogs!!)
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| Sheep Mom 2 |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 1:46:14 PM
I had Anatolian Shepherds for about 15 years - until my last one passed a couple of years ago. Most guardian dogs look at new introductions (sheep, goats or other dogs)as intruders to their flocks unless properly introduced - that includes lambs. You have to research the breed you are choosing. Anatolians are a dominance oriented breed - meaning that they set their own parameters and then whatever is "normal" within those parameters is safe to be there and things that aren't "normal" within that parameter are considered a threat. It is also important to note that with all dogs but most especially dominance orientated dogs, it is imperative that you set the limits and make sure the dog knows who is the Alpha (boss). Anatolians will boss you if you do not set those limits immediately. Having a guardian dog will protect your stock but you must be educated to that breed and take great care to know your dog and it's tendencies. Training a pup takes time and patience and guidance if you are on unfamiliar ground. Training a dog for guardian work vs a pet is two different things altogether. My best advice is do the research. Know your breeder. And make sure that both parents of a large breed dog have certified hips and or shoulders by OFA. There is nothing more tragic than a dog with hip dysplaysia. As for Anatolians being a bad breed or attacking people indiscriminately, I had five at once time one - a male that weighed in at 200 lbs. that rode with me everywhere when I ran my cabinet shop and went out on bids by myself and I never had a single incident. I think you have to look at who was the breeder in the first place and how the dog was trained and supervised. |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 09:18:52 AM
Not WEIRD Jamie! That's what those dogs are SUPPOSED to do! What people who've never had these dogs (or haven't done any research on them) don't realize is that LGD'S are WORKING dogs-- they are NOT PETS!!! (with the exception of the Pyr's, of course, which make WONDERFUL pets! Sometimes much better pets than actual animal guardians) Though they will show affection and respect to their humans (if they've been handled right!) -- at the end of the day, it's a PARTNERSHIP, not really an Owner/pet situation. You have to RESPECT these dogs, be FIRM, but FAIR in your treatment of them and that respect will be returned.
They will patrol their "area" like any good soldier and they will guard it, and their charges, with their very lives if need be. Yes, they SHOULD be taught basic commands, but, like Jaime said, they will often ignore their human if they feel THEIR way of dealing with a situation will work better. Puppy school just won't work for a guardian dog because it will defeat the purpose of getting an LGD in the first place. They were bred to be "independant thinkers," not LAP DOGS! Anyone who wants a pet they can boss around and control should NOT get a Maremma, Certainly NOT an Anatolian or an Akbash (both Turkish breeds and human aggressive), a Kuvaz, or any of the OTHER working LGD breeds. That's a sure recipe for disaster for someone who is not prepared to handle them.
While I'm not trying to ring the bell of doom, I AM trying to help EDUCATE people on these dogs. Not every situation is the same, not every dog within a specific breed is the same, but for the most part, many situations and bad experiences can be avoided if those looking for an LGD would just do their homework. The most important thing to do is learn as much about each breed as possible and to actually TALK to people who have had them and find out what their experiences and feelings about that particular breed are.
Also, look on the "Breed Specific" rescue sites. Just type in the name of the breed you are interested in along with the word "Rescue" and it should point you in the right direction. After reading the stories of those dogs, you might have a better understanding of the breed and why SOME people should NEVER own them!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| Jami |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 07:22:25 AM
Even if I had basic commands on my LGD (which I don't), he wouldn't listen to me when he's in "go mode" no matter what. He is way too independent and I personally like it that way....he should be out with the sheep and not worrying about what I want. I haven't wanted to mess or confuse the dog...his first and foremost duty is to his sheep and not me. That may sound weird but that's how I want it. Guard the sheep...don't be at the gate trying to please the humans. That said...I have no expectations of the dog being a house dog or a pet and that was your point about training them basic commands and I understand that.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
| chickabella |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 03:44:56 AM
Hi Anna, you're right: although the guarding instinct is something that is always there, basic manners MUST be trained into any dog, specifically for those who will be part of one's household. Things like not jumping up onto people, and basic commands like "drop it", "stop/stay", and the like. Not everyone will agree with me on this point, and that's fine, but if a dog is going to be part of a human household, they'll have to be trained to be a member in good standing. LGDs are -very- smart dogs, and if they have an owner that is weak, they'll take over. Not good.
Farm blog: http://farmnatters.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/dasparky
Heart of Texas Farmgirls Chapter; Farmgirl Sisterhood Member #275
|
|
|
