| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MeadowLark |
Posted - Nov 13 2005 : 06:47:22 AM
I love to sleep with my window cracked open, even on the coldest winter night. I may have to rethink this...the dang coyotes serenade me all night! It's like they know the moment I hit the bed. That shrill loud yelping and yiping drives me crazy...and one can sound like fifty! We are overrun with coyotes. It is not a charming country amenity for this farmgirl...any of you get freaked out by coyotes? 
If I keep a green bough in my heart, the singing bird will come. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| LadyCrystal |
Posted - Dec 21 2005 : 7:20:28 PM
Last night hubby and I were taking in a couple loads of wood.Coyotes were at the edge of the woods again and howling like crazy.It freaks me out when they are so close.I worry about our cows especially when Patsy is going to calf. The coyotes were yipping, yappy and howling.That sound just goes to my bones.Hubby threw some stones in there direction and it scared them off but I am afriad of going out at night.I have seen prints in the snow near the chicken coops lately.
Alicia
http://fromcitytocountrygirl.blogspot.com/
follow your dreams |
| twigs |
Posted - Dec 20 2005 : 09:24:03 AM
i remember when we first moved out here in the sticks i had just had my son and kept hearing what i thought was him crying at night, would get up check on him and he would be sound asleep.....dh finally went outside to investigate and it was the cyotes....i know they are here for sometimes when i pull up at night they are in teh driveway.......i just beep my horn an dthey leave.
twigs
May you be surrounded by the things of olde that make you feel like a treasure! |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Dec 09 2005 : 09:22:24 AM
This is a very hot topic. There is a lot of hysteria on both sides. I agree that we had wolves before the release. The feds just didn't want to acknowledge that fact. If it was proved there were wild wolves, no matter how small a number, they could not have legaly released the Canadian wolves. There were numerous reports of wolves in Idaho, but since they were not seen by the govenment folks, they would not accept the sightings. If the wolf is delisted and managed just like all other animals by our fish and game, a lot of the hysteria will go away. Wolves are smart, now they have no reason to be afraid of man and his animals, if they can be shot or trapped, that natural fear would come back, and we should have fewer problems. I know those stats about no wolf in North America attacking humans, but I am sceptical. And as far as the compensation, I understand you are paid for the value of the animal at the time of the killing, not what that animal would have brought you at market time. That is a huge difference. The elk in Yellowstone should have been managed just as everything else in the park is managed, but they weren't.
Ellen I appreciate your views, and your input, but there are people and places not suited for agri-tourism. I think my family and our ranch may be one of those places. I really admire those who can provide a place for the public to enjoy some of the rewards of rural life, like Mary Jane and her family. It is a great thing. But it is not for all of us. Besides, I want to farm, I don't want to be the last farmwife left, that urban folks drive out to see. To me, agriculure is like a great big web, everything is interconnected. There are big production farms, and little part-time flashlight outfits, but we are all in this together. It takes us all to feed and clothe and furnish all the products the world needs. Our little towns, and our big ones, our suppliers, and our markets are interconnected. When little parts of the web are picked at and fail, the web can go down. If agriculture fails, our whole country will. I think we need to support each others operations, even if we don't all do things the same way.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| Alee |
Posted - Dec 08 2005 : 11:20:01 PM
This is a hot topic and I applaude everyone for keeping their heads. I don't think anyone is ever going to change an anti-wolf person to a pro-wolf person.
However, I do have a few facts to throw out due to research I have done since I was in the 6th grade. Yup 11 years I have loved and researched wolves...
Wolves in a natural setting will only kill enough food to keep them healthy. They do not kill for the joy of it.
However when they get into a livestock setting they get confused by the way the livestock act (not running ect due to fences) and they often will kill more than is necessary.
The government has a restitution fund set up for ranchers who lose animals to wolves. They pay fair market value PLUS breeding loss fees.
Wolves are a natural predator for all of north america and most of the over-population problems we have are due to a lack of natural preditors.
Wolves will kill small dogs and cats if that is what they can find. They do not differenciate between animal types.
They are an intelligent animal with family heirarchy and will plan hunts.
I lived in Wyoming when wolves were first introduced. Contrary to popular belief, there were wolves still in wyoming before the reintroduction- just not very many. A local man killed a wolf thinking it was a coyote 2 years before the re-introduction.
I have never seen Yellowstone's herds more natural than since the wolf re-introduction. As mind boggling as seeing around 50k elk in one small valley is...it is not healthy for the land or the elk.
I think wolves should be allowed to live in the national forest just like the herbavores that we protect. We should not be the only predators. However I do think that ranchers should be able to shoot and kill wolves that are endangering their animals because wolves do get carried away in livestock situations.
We did the damage by over hunting in the first place. The wolf is one of God's creatures and has just as much rights as any creature to prosper. I feel that we can co-exist. Remember all dogs have decended from wolves :) and there is no recording of a North American wolf ever attacking a person (excluding any rabid ones although the information I read did not note that so that might not even matter)
Alee |
| ByHzGrace |
Posted - Dec 08 2005 : 04:37:56 AM
I think it was in a FarmBurra newsletter from their convention or maybe npr? But I think it was me reading bout how predator defender org pay for livestock more then worth? and there bea rancher who be getting more per lb on sales as wolfcountry beef? Like me with organic fruit? With less beef eaters, be really the wolf who will take you to the edge? can you do like maryjane and sell tent time, your hook be for wolf howl hearings?
I understand about the subdividing we be fighting the developers here.They be raising the swamp.Filling to build makes water seek low spot and now I have to pump water to keep my trees from having wet roots.
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| westfork woman |
Posted - Dec 07 2005 : 1:22:05 PM
According to the Bible, God gave us dominion over the animals, that is not to say we can or should destroy them, but we have a duty to the animals we have domesticated to protect them if we can. I have always felt that if I cannot accept the responsibility of taking care of my animals, then I shouldn't have any. This pertains to pets as well as domestic animals. Life sometimes isn't pretty, especially life lived on the edge of civilization. I will live and let live, but I will protect my own if necessary. As far as wolves go, I will not be able to go to the market place if wolves are allowed to become the predator. We aren't a big outfit, and just taking a few calves would put us out of business. If we can't make it with cows, there are developers knocking on the door of ranchers all over this county. Our one house here on this 500 acres has very little impact on wildlife. A house on every 5 acres or every 40 acres, each one with 4 or 5 horses, eating everything, will have a huge impact on wildlife. I see the release of wolves in this area as the end of our free roaming herds of deer and elk, and a detriment to all wildlife.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| ByHzGrace |
Posted - Dec 07 2005 : 04:57:57 AM
Isn't the real competition the marketplace not wolves?
The predators bee minor compared to prices?
Isn't the key word in your post Kennielyn and one Meadowlark wrote BALANCE? I be in a evacuation zone read barrier island think a place where tides move you and you be surrounded by saltwater. Mother nature's paradise somedays and somedays dangers abound and she pushes us to deaths door.We have predators here too besides the storms. I've seen cattle taken by gators, my peacocks and ducks eaten by bobcats,dogs picked off by eagles and gators, owls swoop in on mykitty. I be not doing any good by shooting=removing the predators into extinction. I be a predator too. We all be playing a role for momma nature. When she wants to balance us she tips the scales, if I be worried about being blown away I would move, I know death is part of my fate.People consider this world as a nurturing place, when actually nature sustains itself at great cost to its participants.
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| westfork woman |
Posted - Dec 06 2005 : 08:55:33 AM
Jenny, that is the theory, predators will help keep the deer, elk, rabbit, etc, populations in balance. The thing most don't figure into that idea, is us. We make it very easy for predators to prey on our pets, and our stock. I really think it helps to have hunting and trapping of coyotes, it makes them just a little wary of people and their places. But they are so smart, I think they have ESP, they know when we have a gun, and when we don't. I have even pointed sticks at them, and just had them look at me like I had to be kidding, trying to fool them. But if you have a gun, they don't stand around and look at you. I have a cousin with a little bunch of sheep. He lives in the valley with other houses around, and still has coyote problems. It seem every winter he looses a few lambs and even the occaisional ewe to coyotes. He is very watchful and shoots coyotes if he sees them, and has dogs, but still has problems. We have had some problems, but really very few, considering where we live. I like living on the edge, on the edge of civilization, on the edge of financial ruin, on the edge of common sense, whatever you want to call it. I will put up with the occaisional coyote predation to be able to live here. However, wolves are a different idea all together. They are a big predator, and we are their only competition. I don't want to compete with wolves for my livelihood.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| jenny louise |
Posted - Dec 05 2005 : 5:02:36 PM
Hi all, this has been a very interesting thread to read. I know that there have been coyotes in this area, but it hasn't become a problem, (for me). There are alot of guys out around here that hunt them and dig out the dens. At first, I didn't really understand the vehemence, but after reading this, I can begin to realize why there is so little tolerance.
I had originally thought that the coyotes would help to keep the rabbit population under control, and maybe the deer as well. We have an explosion of both. I live in Michigan, in the thumb area, and we have very large herds of deer that eat everything in sight, and rabbits that do the same. I have lost large trees to both and I know that it is because og over-population. I had thought that a predator such as coyote would help balance the population. Am I wrong?
I raise sheep and have not had any encounters, but maybe i should be more aware. I have a collie that supervises, but in the winter, i keep her in where she can stay warmer.
Thanks for the good reading....Jenny |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Dec 03 2005 : 09:06:10 AM
I don't know what you do to combat the release of wolves. Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana fought for years, had resolutions from our legislatures, statements from the governors, opposition from the state fish and game organizations, public hearings, and we still got wolves. One thing in your favor would be how fast they have spread out here.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| LadyCrystal |
Posted - Dec 02 2005 : 2:40:25 PM
That is exactly what we are afraid of.Even A friend of ours works for D.E.M here says it is a terrible idea.The areas up here aren't large areas either so it won't take long at all for them to spread.
Alicia
http://fromcitytocountrygirl.blogspot.com/
follow your dreams |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Dec 02 2005 : 09:32:38 AM
The excuse for releasing them in Yellowstone was an ever increasing elk population that could not be hunted inside the park. The elk were destroying the streambanks and meadows in the park. The elk migrate into lower areas and cause problems for ranchers, eating stacked hay, spreading brucellosis, and starving to death on the side of the road. So the feds decided instead of trying to maintain an optimal herd size in Yellowstone, by hunting or some form trapping and removal, they would release Canadian wolves. The Frank Church Wilderness and the National Forest and BLM Lands in Idaho would contain the spillover from the park. The wolves ran through the park's elk and immediately moved into Idaho and even as far as Oregon. The feds said it would take years and years for wolf population to come up the whatever the optimal number of breeding pairs was, they now have at least twice that number, and it is only growing. The Wilderness and Forest lands are proving to be too small a range. If you look at a map Idaho is mostly public land, 1000's and 1000's of acres. Where in the East do you have any place that big? How can the government release a dangerous predator into populated areas. Granted there may not be many people in some areas, but I would think there are farmers, campers, hikers, hunters, and timber workers. At this point wolves here are not afraid of people, they haven't been shot at, or trapped. They will kill whatever is easy. That means livestock, and pets. I just read today a quote by some rancher in Montana who said to a wolf activist, "How would you like it if I came and got $500 or $600 dollars from your pocket every week." I don't wolves and people can ever get along.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| LadyCrystal |
Posted - Dec 01 2005 : 4:56:35 PM
We are nervous around where I live about wolves.There is talk to starting a release program in New Hampshire.How long would it take for them to migrate down.We have such a problem with coyotes as it is, to add wolves in the mix would be bad news.But I do have to say I find wolves very beautiful.
Alicia
http://fromcitytocountrygirl.blogspot.com/
follow your dreams |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Dec 01 2005 : 3:01:47 PM
The feds are calling the shots as far as wolves go. We didn't want them, our fish and game and our governor fought tooth and toenail to keep them from being released in Yellowstone. The have spread all over Idaho and into Oregon. The numbers of wolves is way bigger than expected. They are supposed to be keeping track of them, but they aren't doing a very good job. They will catch and release problem wolves, but all that does is just make them someone else's problem. There have been a lot of cattle and sheep killed and some groups say they will pay ranchers for losses, but you have to confirm a kill, and sometimes that can be pretty hard. The way I understand what is going on now, if you are on private land, or if you have a grazing permit on public land, if wolves are actually attacking your livestock, you can shoot them. But, hunters, hikers, and homeowners have no recourse if their dogs are killed. Campers cannot shoot to protect themselves or their children, you are just supposed scare them away, or leave. Idaho's outfitters are outraged, they can do nothing to protect the big game herds that they rely on. The wolves not only kill elk and deer, they run them around so that calf and fawn mortality is rising. Out of state hunters pay the bills for Idaho's Fish and Game, and if they can't expect to get a trophy elk, they will stop coming. The wolves follow the big game herds and the herds winter in low country, on the edge of farms, ranches and subdivision. We are afraid it won't take long until there are more conflicts with wolves and people.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| MeadowLark |
Posted - Dec 01 2005 : 1:12:55 PM
No problem Kennie! You are a REAL country woman and I certainly understand loving the wildlife...now wolves would be a whole different issue. Don't the feds monitor the wolf population? Is there such a thing as relocation of the wolves if they get too prolific in one area? My DH has a colleague that owns a ranch in Montanna and he raises cattle that have been killed by the wolves. This guy is a real sportsman and hunter and is very frustrated by the wolves and the laws that protect them. Wolves are very intelligent. Coyotes are so prolific here because there is really no natural enemy of them except an angry farmgirl with a .22...nature seems to be really out of balance. It try to coexist peacefully.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, the singing bird will come. |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Dec 01 2005 : 1:01:41 PM
I am sorry Meadowlark, I came on a little strong with that last post. We have been very lucky as far as coyote predation is concerned, lots of people have real problems with them. I do understand your point of view. I have similar feeling about wolves. Since our goverment released them on to us, they have grown way faster than expected. Our elk and deer herds are shrinking, and when the wild herds will no longer support the wolf population, they will concentrate on domestic animals. It is much easier to kill a cow or sheep than a deer or elk, and they don't stop at farm animals. We have heard them howling here, and other people have seen them. I am afraid of wolves, and don't want them around, but the feds tell us we must live with them. Big outfits may be able to absorb the loss, but small outfits will just sell out.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Nov 29 2005 : 2:49:04 PM
I agree with you, coyotes are predators and they will kill whatever is easy. We never have too many cats because of coyotes. I have seen cows still alive with their hind ends eaten by coyotes while they were calving. It is awful.
There are lots of people hunting coyotes here, and we have state government trappers who make a huge difference. We have in the past had coyote population explosions, and then they are a menace. I am sure we have lost calves to coyotes and cougars, I have no other explanation of why some are missing. If the coyotes are bad, I carry a gun. But coyotes are like roaches, when we have destroyed ourselves there will still be coyotes and roaches. We cut down on the number of wolves, but more people have hunted coyotes for way longer, and they are still here, I don't think we can get rid of them. But I like to know there are wild places with wild animals left, and I like living there.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| MeadowLark |
Posted - Nov 29 2005 : 10:45:51 AM
Try going out and seeing your daughter's mother cat and kittens eaten by a coyote...a newborn baby calf carried off by coyotes, chickens, geese ripped apart by coyotes...AND actually being confronted by a pack of snarling coyotes...if one has to deal with them on a farm and their killing and menace they maybe God's own critters but I am going to protect my farm, "chilin", my livestock and myself! If I want to enjoy and gaze at a dangerous critter I'll go to a zoo...bobcats are terrible here too.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, the singing bird will come. |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Nov 29 2005 : 10:33:02 AM
Thanks Frannie, If anything I am guilty of taking all the wildlife around me for granted. Our place has lots of cover and is surrounded on 3 sides with public land, so we see lots of critters. I am more than willing to share with them, but that might not be the case if they were eating us out of house and home. Some people here have real problems with deer and elk. It doesn't take long for 150 head of elk to destroy a haystack. They also come down into corn fields and ruin them. We put our hay in a barn, and have had no trouble. A friend from California always asks what wildlife I have seen, and gets excited when I say quail and coyotes, which with deer, I see nearly every day. Now, I get excited when I see bobcats, cougars, and bears. If I had chickens I am sure I wouldn't be so accepting of coyotes, but as it is, I am fine with them being around. A protective dog helps in keeping the coyotes at bay. Deer and sometimes bears come into our orchard to eat fallen apples, and most of our dogs have had sense enough to lay on the porch and ignore them. The beekeepers didn't like having the bears around, so the fish and game trapped and moved them a couple of times, but I kind of like the idea of living in a place where black bears live, as long as they aren't into our garbage. That is one thing I have always been careful about. We have no outside garbage cans. They just bring mice and snakes and stuff I don't want in my yard, bears too I would imagine. I enjoy seeing eagles, even tho I have friends who hate them. They lost a little dog to a bald eagle, but that is the price you pay for living on the edge of civilization. It is a price I will gladly pay.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| CabinCreek-Kentucky |
Posted - Nov 29 2005 : 07:29:06 AM
Kennie Lyn .. i so enjoyed your outlook on one of god's critters! i surely don't have the answers as to why poisonous snakes and harmful critters are here on this earth (or famine and disease and other ills of life) .. but they are here .. and i guess we humans will just have to learn to adapt (whatever they may mean for each of us personally and individually) .. but i surely did get a smile at reading your ideas of them! thanks for sharing! Frannie
True Friends, Frannie |
| Krisathome |
Posted - Nov 28 2005 : 08:18:02 AM
My IRL friend that lives a few miles out of town has a terrible coyote problem. It's gotten worse since their big golden lab got run over. They seem to come alot closer to the house. Her dh is a hunter and has shot a few that have come too close for comfort. |
| verbina |
Posted - Nov 23 2005 : 09:47:21 AM
im moving this messeage to thr correct area. sorry all. |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Nov 23 2005 : 09:32:58 AM
I've never been afraid of them, they are way more afraid of me, besides Abbey wouldn't let them get me. Our grandson is afraid of the dark and wants us to shut the front door at night, we usually just leave the screen door shut at night in the summer, I tell him that with Abbey sleeping on the porch nothing is coming thru that door.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
| Shirley |
Posted - Nov 21 2005 : 11:46:26 PM
OH MY, I hate the sould of coyotes, they are so eerieeeee.
Kennie Lyn, you are brave opening the door. I know they will run from ya,( I just feel safe and happy in my house hehe) I used to chase them from our pastures, but its night and the sounds give me chills to..
shirley in OLy |
| westfork woman |
Posted - Nov 21 2005 : 09:13:11 AM
Night before last, with the moon shining bright, the coyotes decided to try to take the elk legs away from our dog. Abbey rarely barks at coyotes, preferring to lay on the porch and listen to them, that night, she chased them around the house about 3 times. It worries me when she chases them, so I got up. I opened the door, just in time to see two of them, with Abbey right behind, run out of the yard. With me yelling, the coyotes decided to leave, and Abbey chased them maybe 100 yards, then came back to the porch all proud of herself, for protecting her home, her elk legs and her mistress from coyotes.
Greetings from the morning side of the hill. |
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