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Farm Kitchen:  Pie Q&A  |
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kitchensqueen
True Blue Farmgirl
521 Posts
521 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 09 2007 : 09:57:27 AM
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As many of you know, I have been learning to bake pie. I made an apple pie for Easter yesterday, and it turned out pretty good, however the crust was a little soggy/doughy on the inside. Should I prebake the crust for apple? I didn't, just poured the room temp filling in, then baked at 425 for 15 minutes, then 350 for another 20. Or maybe I should have baked it longer or at a different temp?
http://apartmentfarm.wordpress.com
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Aunt George
True Blue Farmgirl
1476 Posts
Georgann
Midlothian
VA
1476 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2007 : 10:35:24 AM
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I'm not an accomplished pie baker myself, but my sister swears by lard in her crusts. My hubby is a vegetarian, so I can't do that. I do use vented pie pans and that seems to help alot. It is a piepan with tiny holes all around the bottom and sides.
G
http://auntgeorgeshouse.blogspot.com/index.html
Thanks for checking out my apron and sewing musings! |
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gregs_lil_farmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
219 Posts
birdi
hartford
me
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2007 : 4:51:31 PM
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myself...I bake them longer. I bake and apple pie at 375 for around 50 minutes or so...sometimes higher temp. cover your pie edges with alum foil(I use little pie covers) and take them off in the last 10-15 minutes to brown..this prevents the crust from burning. And lard does make the best pie crust...always flaky. I probably do 2 pies a week because this is dh's biggest weakness. I can do it know with eyes closed...almost. hhaha
-Simple pleasures make my heart smile-
www.fouracrefarmgirl.blogspot.com |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2007 : 3:33:35 PM
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One of the reasons that pie recipes often call for higher temps to start, and then a dial down after ten or fifteen minutes, is to get that crust going right. Also, if it's soggy on the bottom crust, you can bake it on the lowest rack in the oven, and before filling you can brush the bottom inside crust with egg white. That helps keep the filling from mixing with the flour particles in the crust and getting soggy.
Also, if you have very juicy apples, you may need more flour or more cornstarch (or tapioca) to thicken the juices.
The lard makes for what bakers call a long flake. It makes a very tender crust. Butter makes a really flavorful crust, but it tends to end up a bit harder. IMO the best comes from a mixture of both; you get the long flake and tender texture, with great flavor. To my mind, shortening makes a poor quality crust.
If you find that your soggy middle has a sort of floury or gritty texture, then it may have been a very deep dish pie plate, and you may need to bake five to ten minutes longer. If your crust is browning too fast, then you can tent it loosely. Don't button it down too tight though, or it'll steam and soften.
Isn't it great that it doesn't have to be perfect in order to still be delicious? |
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westernhorse51
True Blue Farmgirl
1681 Posts
michele
farmingdale
n.j.
USA
1681 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2007 : 05:47:52 AM
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it took me years to get pies right & I still make mistakes but cooking a little longer will help IF it's too juicy or not enough flour in the apple mix (dont need alot). I use butter and I don't make my crust too thick, for me that was the secret, I used to make terribly thick crusts that never wanted to cook.
she selects wool and flax and works with eager hands Prov.31:13 |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2007 : 06:12:00 AM
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I start mine (apple pie) out at 450 for 10, then 350 for 40-50 minutes.
It definitely helps to "set" the crust, and I also insert 6 inch drinking straws throughout the pie, so that the juice goes up through them and doesn't settle in the bottom, or spill over the sides, which (aside from making a sticky mess in the stove) causes soggy crust, too.
Oh...I use shortening (Crisco sticks) in my crust.
"In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt." Margaret Atwood
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kitchensqueen
True Blue Farmgirl
521 Posts
521 Posts |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2007 : 5:38:58 PM
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| There are a few different ways. Beaten egg mixed with water makes a nice shine. Some people prefer to use just beaten egg white, but I use both, brush the egg on, and then sprinkle with coarse sugar. Also, you can take your trimmings and cut designs in them. If you cut little leaf shapes, you can make the 'veins' by cutting partially through with your paring knife. Once the egg wash is on, lay these cute leaves and/or apple shapes on the crust and paint them, too. Make sure you have some vents cut, also. Or you can do a single thickness on your edge (crimped, of course), and then use the trimmings in long thin strips, braid, and place on top of the edge all the way around. Brush with egg wash, sprinkle with sugar, and bake. It makes a really pretty presentation. |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2007 : 7:55:41 PM
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Mary Ann-
Would you post your recipe for pie crust? I would love to try it.
Thanks
Alee |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2007 : 10:31:41 PM
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I agree with Mary Ann; combo of lard and butter makes the best crust. If you have time to cut them into tiny cubes and freeze them before starting your crust, that's good. I use my Cuisinart to cut it into the flour; very fast and easy if you just pulse for a few seconds. If you don't want to use lard, combo of butter and good quality shortening is second best. You can never go wrong with recipes from Cooks Illustrated, either the magazine, online or their books. They do all the experimenting and give the best recipe and methods.
Ronna |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 2:16:11 PM
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Oooh, I have to go dig for it, but I'll get back to you with it! And if somehow I blank it out, you have my permission to nag me.  |
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mtngirl1
True Blue Farmgirl
51 Posts
Kimberly
Roseland
Virginia
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2007 : 11:28:45 AM
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| I have only made my own pie crust once-and it was not good (anyone want to share their recipe?) I use store bought crusts- but I know that when I make my grandmother's coconut pie (it's delish) I bake it at 425 for 10 minutes then at 350 for the remainder. |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2007 : 3:31:33 PM
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Mary Ann-
*grin* found that recipe yet?
Alee |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2007 : 09:25:49 AM
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Oh my, I have been tardy, haven't I??? Well, here's the recipe I use. It's from Bernard Clayton's book, "The Complete Book of Pastry, Sweet and Savory." The copyright on my book is 1981, and I bought it because this man lived in the same town I did at the time, and had won the RT French's Tastemaker Award for his book on breads. And he's never let me down.
I apologize for the length, but his instructions on this tutorial for basic crust are lengthy. It'd be nice if other farmgirls get to benefit from his skill and deft understanding of doughs. So here we go, I hope you like!
THE BASIC PIE CRUST
One of the finest pie crusts---and one of the most widely made in kitchens across the country---is an easy to prepare dough using lard or vegetable shortening or a combination of the two.
(Now I'm taking this part out of context and going back to another place in his book where he discusses using fats.)
In pastry making, fat imparts richness and tenderness. It also leavens and raises the crust. Fat, especially butter and lard, contribute a unique flavor to pastries. It also lubricates the gluten in the dough so that it is free to rise and puff. Butter continues to be the most highly regarded fat for pastries because of it's delicious flavor and rich aroma. Sweet or unsalted butter is preferred because it indicates a fresher product than salted butter, which has a longer shelf life. Butter has a low melting point and is often blended with other fats, to allow high oven temperatures without burning.
(Okay, now back to the basic pie crust recipe.)
It deserves to be called the basic pie crust because the recipe is so widespread that it is usually known as Auntie Skoog's Best Pie Dough or Mrs.Shnoeberger's Favorite Crust or even Dad's Delight, so named to honor a family cook or neighbor who created a memorable pastry with it.
This does not mean that all home bakers make it well. Many don't. But it can be made with so little thought and advance planning that will allow the dough to rest and relax along the way. It will be tender under the fork and delicious on the tongue when done properly.
The dough makes a "medium-flaky" crust in which the lard or shortening is cut into tiny flour-covered particles that retain their identity throughout the process. Butter can be used to give the crust it's delicate flavoring, but it must be blended with lard or shortening in the ratio of one part butter to two parts shortening. Butter alone in this type of dough produces a hard crust with none of the shortness or tender crispness imparted by lard or solid shortening.
Although the basic recipe is usually made with only four ingredients---lard or a solid fat, salt, flour, and a liquid---a more delicate and somewhat richer version is made with the addition of egg (for extra crispness and richness), sugar (a touch of sweetness and color), and vinegar (tenderness). If the optional vinegar and egg are added, reduce or eliminate cold water.
All the good things I knew about this recipe were confirmed one day when I discovered it taped to the big refrigerator door in the test kitchen of The Louisville (Kentucky) Courier-Journal. This alone was an impressive measure of it's value, because Kentuckians know and demand fine food just as the know and demand fine horses. It is known there as Mrs. Crosier's Perfect All-Purpose Pie Crust. Whenever there is a pie to be baked in the newspaper's test kitchen with an unspecified crust, the lot falls to Mrs. Crosier's recipe to help the soon-to-be-tested pie become something just as great as the aspiring home baker said it is and hopes it will be. "It is a perfect crust for almost every kind of pie," said Lillian Marshall, for many year's the papers esteemed food editor, who peeled the recipe off the door and gave it to me.
Poignant note: While the memory of Mrs. Crosier and her fine recipe lives on in Kentucky, and in surrounding states as well as in my kitchen, the food editors don't know what became of the lady who submitted the version of this winning recipe so many years ago.
One of my pie-baking mentors who uses only lard in this basic dough is eighty-year-old Katherine Records, who with her late husband operated a feed store and hatchery for many years in my southern Indiana town. Her pies have been consistent blue ribbon winners at the county fair for generations. Rather than store either dough or an un-baked shell, Mrs. Records keeps a bag of "crumbs" in her refrigerator to be made into a crust at a moment's notice with only the addition of 3 or 4 tablespoons of cold water. the "crumbs" are the tiny particles of flour, salt, and lard that have been cut with a pastry blender. They keep refrigerated almost indefinitely.
INGREDIENTS: For one single 8- or 9-inch shell or approximately four tartlet shells:
1 cup all purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
6 tablespoons lard or shortening, chilled (or 4 tablespoons lard and two tablespoons butter, chilled)
1/4 cup ice water, approximately
Optional:
1 teaspoon sugar
1 teaspoon vinegar
2 tablespoons egg (about half of 1 slightly beaten egg)
For one two-crust 8- or 9-inch pie:
2 cups all purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
3/4 cup (6 ounces) lard, chilled (or 1/2 cup lard and 1/4 cup butter, chilled)
1/2 cup ice water, approximately
Optional:
2 teaspoons sugar
2 teaspoons vinegar
1 egg
PIE PAN PREPARATION: Pans of choice, large (9 or 10 inch) or small (8-inch). Note:
1. If the blend of butter and lard or shortening is to be used, allow both to come to room temperature before mixing them together. The mixture must be chilled before it is cut into the flour, however.
2. If the optional vinegar and egg are used, reduce water by half.
3. The volume of one large egg is about 1/4 cup; hence, half is 2 tablespoons.
BY HAND: (5 minutes) Into a medium bowl measure the flour and salt. With a knife cut the fat into several small pieces and drop into the flour. Toss and work the fat and flour together with a pastry blender, two knives or fingers working quickly, until the mixture resembles coarse meal, with irregular particles ranging in size from tiny grains of rice to small peas. (These are Mrs. Record's "crumbs.")
Add sugar, vinegar, and egg, if desired. Pour each ingredient into the flour mixture and stir to blend before adding the next.
Sprinkle in the water, a tablespoon at a time, and stir with a fork held lightly. Gently toss the loose particles around the bowl to absorb moisture. Add water as needed to bring the particles together in a moist (not wet) mass that holds together with no dry or crumby places apparent.
ELECTRIC MIXER (4 minutes): Measure flour and salt into mixer bowl. Cut fat into several small pieces and drop into the flour. Start mixer at slow speed and stir until flour covered fat particles are the size of small peas, about 1 minute.
Add sugar, vinegar, and egg, if desired. Add water, a tablespoon at a time, until the mass is moist and forms a rough ball. Stop. Don't overmix.
FOOD PROCESSOR (3 minutes): With the metal blade attached, add flour, salt, and fat to the work bowl. Process with two or three short bursts, or until the mixture has the consistency of coarse meal. Stop the machine.
Add sugar, vinegar, and egg, if desired. (Operate the machine in short bursts so as not to overmix.) Pour ice water through the feed tube. Stop as soon as dough begins to form a rough, moist mass.
REFRIGERATED REST (4 hours or longer): Wrap the ball of dough in plastic wrap or foil and place in the refrigerator to mature and chill, 4 hours or longer.
ROLLING/SHAPING: Beforehand remove the dough from the refrigerator for about 1/2 hour before rolling or it will be difficult to work. (I will add here that using a wooden pin and deftly whacking in the middle of the dough ball to flatten, then rolling gently from the middle outward whacking periodically, gives you a fast crust. Try to not work it too much, as overworking it will develop the gluten and make a tough crust.)
BAKING (Times vary): If the shell is to be baked before filling, see page 61. (Here are instructions to prick, fill with pie weights like dried beans in foil, etc.) If the pie is to be filled before baking, follow instructions for your specific pie recipe.
*pant pant pant* Okay, I hope the spelling errors aren't too bad, and that this makes sense. I strongly recommend this book as a pie and pastry primer; he explains things so they make sense and are easy to do.
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2007 : 8:37:25 PM
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Wow Mary Ann! That is a lot of great information! I will have to put that into my "print your own" recipe book that I am putting together on the Farmgirl Chapter Projects forum if that is okay with you?
Alee |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2007 : 03:19:35 AM
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It's fine with me, but the bulk of the text belongs to Bernard Clayton. I don't know if there are any copyright issues??? *shrug*
It really is the best darned pie crust recipe I've ever had, and the book is tremendous. He goes after every subject with that sort of information; he's pretty thorough. You'll have to try it and let us know how it worked for you. Remember to work fast and keep everything cold, cold, cold! |
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl
1891 Posts
Ronna
Fernley
NV
USA
1891 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2007 : 7:44:22 PM
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Bernard Clayton's cookbooks are timeless keepers. Don't know if I've ever seen one in a thrift store. Now, Rosie, Oprah's cook at one time...her books are all over the place.
There are a few other cookbook authors you can trust for recipes, James Beard, Maida Heatter, Rose Levy Birnbaum (not sure of spelling on her last name) and anything by Cook's Illustrated magazine. Just my opinion, of course.
Ronna |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2007 : 7:56:28 PM
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I will make sure to make a notation to give her credit!
Alee |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2007 : 07:42:12 AM
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| Okayyyy.... But Bernard Clayton is a man. |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2007 : 12:45:58 PM
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LOL *oops!* I guess I need to put my reading glasses on! I guess the name should have been a tip off!
Alee |
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Farm Kitchen: Pie Q&A |
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Pie Q&A
