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Family Matters:  Family trials and tribs..I should just keep quiet?  |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 07:46:17 AM
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I feel I have to preempt this post with a disclaimer... History required to set up the scene Dh's parents divorced in 1980. Paternal side are staunch Irish Catholics who never forgave his mother, and they demonize her still to this day. Three paternal Aunts, one absolutely wonderful, the other two not so much. The latter were (and are) the main aggressors towards my MIL over the years--keep the hatred going with various manipulations, general lies and misunderstandings, most dating from mid to late 70's era issues...
So, my 30th birthday roles around, and my husband wants to throw me a party at MIL's lovely house. 2 weeks before the party, one of the "not so great" aunts rings up my MIL out of the blue and obliterates her for things that happened 20 years ago. Now, we had never intended on inviting them because, we were limited to 25 people, but also out of respect for my MIL. We felt we couldn't ask her to open her home to them after that!!! My husband and I elected to invite our close friends and immediate family (my mom, his two sets of parents)etc. That was big enough for me, frankly. His two aunts had never really cared for me, either, as an aside--in short, we wanted to share my milestone birthday with people who loved us. We also included my husband's paternal grandparents as we both loved them dearly.
A day before my party, I received a birthday card from his grandparents with $30.00 stating that they couldn't come. I had some sense that some trouble was brewing with the aunts, especially after the phone call a few weeks prior, so I called Gran to ask what the real reason was. She said that if her "girls" (who are 50+) weren't invited, that they weren't coming either. "I think it's terrible that K____(MIL)is that hateful.". I couldn't believe that they had (once again) turned this into an issue about my MIL. And nothing I said mattered. I told her that we were limited on the number of guests, and she still said, "yes, by K_______." I was so saddened by this. 30 was really hard for me because my father had passed and never got to see me happy, so I was feeling sorry for myself, and I called my dh crying and told him what happened. What I didn't know (and consequently know now) is that you can't hurt me. I mean, you can, but you have to be prepared for what happens next--dh's wrath. Unfortunately, he went to see his grandparents and, here we are three years later and he hasn't spoken to anyone on that side of his extended family. It has literally put such a painful distance between he and his father, and his sister (and now her children).
He did start talking about apologizing, every month or so. I usually just stay away from the topic. This past Sunday, the day of my nephew's christening (his sister's baby), MIL mentioned to me privately, that on Christmas Eve, dh's grandfather got very emotional and called my FIL to pick him up and take him to the restaurant where my husband works--that he wanted to talk to him and make peace--he just couldn't bear not having his first grandchild around anymore.
So, this time, I couldn't NOT say anything. I told him. And I got no response--in fact, I was the only one emotional about it...I know it causes him much emotional pain, but he just doesn't tell. It's fairly frustrating because I think it's an underlying issue in most of his "moods". But, he won't talk about it on any level.
He asked me for a stamp and envelope two days ago, and I found a (folded up) draft of a letter on the coffee table to his grandparents that simply says, "I'm sorry, I was wrong. Hope you can forgive me."
I guess I just don't talk to him about it, right? Hope that he sent a letter or whatever and move on? While I don't want to have a lot to do with them anymore (I mean I knew they never really LIKED me but gosh, the things those two magpies said!!!), I feel that it's imperative for him to belong again, as much as he can--at least with his grandparents. Their time is so short here.
Just think of all of the roads there are...all of the things I haven't seen....yet. |
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl
4813 Posts
Julie
Russell
AR
USA
4813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 07:52:01 AM
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I guess I am a little confused. Are you mad that hubby apolgized and you don't think he should have or are you mad that he apologized and didn't tell you? can you clarify?
Jewelry, art, baskets, etc.
www.willowartist.etsy.com
www.willowtreecreek.com |
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Kim
True Blue Farmgirl
146 Posts
Kim
Pflugerville
Texas
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 07:58:32 AM
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Did he leave the letter there for you to read and comment on? I agree with you, I think he needs to make ammends and move on, even though they are in the wrong. You can always put on a pretty face for your DH's sake. It's sad they have one this and distanced the family from each other. I'm sure they would think things through differently if the sho was on the other foot.
Blessed Be!
farmgirl@heart
Be at peace with yourself and the rest will follow
http://chevy49girl.livejournal.com/
http://midwestmusings-kim.blogspot.com/
http://chevy49girl.deviantart.com/ |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 08:09:55 AM
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Oh no--I'm not mad at all at him, or at them, Willowtree....I thought he should have apologized the day it happened, and attempted to talk with him then, but he shut me down (and everyone else) about it until a few months ago, and even then it's a very guarded conversation...I'm just trying to figure out whether I should even acknowledge that I read the letter--I don't want him to feel like I'm spying on him. I mean, if he brings the subject up, then I guess it's ok. He's REALLY in denial often, especially when he's in the wrong.
I'm not sure if he left the letter out for me to find or not--if he did, I guess that's his way of talking about it?
It's such a weird situation, I literally feel like I'm walking on egg shells around him about it. I want to be able to say, "hey, I'm here for you if you need me to be", but I really don't want another awkward moment like the one where I told him about his grandfather and Christmas. It was like I was the one who'd lost my family!
Just think of all of the roads there are...all of the things I haven't seen....yet. |
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl
4813 Posts
Julie
Russell
AR
USA
4813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 08:16:08 AM
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My hubby had a fallin out with his extended family before I was around. It is something we DONT talk about. He still gets very angry about it even though it happend 17 years ago. But I TOTALLY agree with his anger and don't think 100 years would make what happend with his family better. If my husband had left a letter like that I probably wouldn't say anything to him but only because it all happened BEFORE I was around so I don't feel it is my battle to fight eaither way. But I also feel confident that my husband would bring it up to me. I don't think he would write an apology without talking to me first. If you think your hubby meant for it to be seen then I would bring it up. If you found it on accident and he hasn't sent it yet I would give him some time. Maybe he wants to see how THEY react first. It is probably emotional for him.
Jewelry, art, baskets, etc.
www.willowartist.etsy.com
www.willowtreecreek.com |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 08:17:07 AM
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Also, I feel responsible for this....I wish we could talk together to, well, even allieviate what I'm feeling. I mean, if I hadn't called him, none of this would have happened. I should have just piped down and enjoyed my party. Regardless. It's just rotten, really. He's missed so much time with his grandparents, and yes, his grandmother was really weird about this whole thing, but I can even forgive her for that. I really feel responsible and wish that it wasn't such a difficult subject to discuss between us. Because he won't ever talk about it, I have NO idea as to what his true feelings are--hates me? Mad at himself? Feels obligated to apologize because of the strain on his immediate family? What???
Just think of all of the roads there are...all of the things I haven't seen....yet. |
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Kim
True Blue Farmgirl
146 Posts
Kim
Pflugerville
Texas
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 08:17:35 AM
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I suppose if he left it out in the open, maybe that was his way of telling you. I would just say "Look, I know this is difficult to talk about and hard on you. If and when you are ready I am here to listen. I support your decisions about your family," and put the ball in his court. That way maybe you won't feel as though you are walkiing on eggshells as much.
Blessed Be!
farmgirl@heart
Be at peace with yourself and the rest will follow
http://chevy49girl.livejournal.com/
http://midwestmusings-kim.blogspot.com/
http://chevy49girl.deviantart.com/ |
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Kim
True Blue Farmgirl
146 Posts
Kim
Pflugerville
Texas
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 08:35:16 AM
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it is so unfari of his family to speak badly of his mother. He needs to put his foot down and say "I refuse to listen to any negative talk about my mother." The issue is between his mom and his dad. It's nobody elses business.
All you can do is say you are sorry you brought the other incident up, you can't go back and change that. I'm sure it was only out of concern and it's horrible they have put you in this position as well.
Blessed Be!
farmgirl@heart
Be at peace with yourself and the rest will follow
http://chevy49girl.livejournal.com/
http://midwestmusings-kim.blogspot.com/
http://chevy49girl.deviantart.com/ |
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Bluewrenn
True Blue Farmgirl
1122 Posts
Erin
Texas
USA
1122 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 09:05:44 AM
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Just keep quiet. Let him work it out on his own. I have learned that people are so funny about their families. Even when you think you are beloved and accepted by his family without reservation, you should be very careful about bringing up any of his families' issues. Just something I learned the hard way. When your husband is ready to talk about it, he will. In the meantime, just do nice things for him but DO NOT bring it up.
My Homesteading Journal http://toomyvara.livejournal.com
My craft journal http://bluewrenn.livejournal.com
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 09:13:00 AM
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You're right--I can apologize for at least that. I just feel like it's put a strain on us, too, whether he mentions it or not.
They're a strange group of folks, for sure. I've never known people who could talk so terribly about one another, and then sit down to eat dinner. Having never had a large family, I really hope that's not the norm! Apparently, my husband and his mother didn't speak for many years because they told him SHE was the reason he went to a boys home (when his father had custody at that time)...later he found out that it was his father....All because they just kept stirring the rumors. He started speaking to his mom two weeks before we got married, and even after that, we had to tell fibbs about why we were leaving early from easter supper (to go to MIL's house) or why we were late to Christmas Eve because we'd stopped at her home first. He's suffered a lot of emotional pain from this family, so, like I said, I'm not really too interested in seeing them again, but for his sake I'll do what's required.
Crazy people.
Just think of all of the roads there are...all of the things I haven't seen....yet. |
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lamamama
True Blue Farmgirl
255 Posts
Melanie
CA
USA
255 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 09:18:27 AM
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I'm in agreement with Kim on this one. Although you haven't told us exactly what your DH said to his family, he certainly had a right to be angry, & to defend his Mother.
I think I would be supporting him. And let no one forget the ones that started the issue. They should be held accountable, & their actions recognized by those now feeling the pain of separation. Having said that, I am also of the mindset that in these kind of family problems, forgiveness is the only path. Difficult, but it has to happen. It will have to happen, however, between your DH & whomever he wishes to include.
Unfortunately, it seems that there isn't going to be much you can do about it, nor will you be actively involved in the making amends path. Just let your DH know that you do support him, & will do whatever you can to help. At that point, staying out of it seems appropriate.
Whoa.....it sure sounds like a boiling mess. I wish you all the best, Jonni. Stay strong.
Melanie |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 12:42:10 PM
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Actually, I don't know what he said--I know it turned into an all out family brawl, but I was never told by him (or anyone else) what he said. Just that it was "terrible", and honestly, I didn't really want to know. I battled between feeling awful about the situation, to sticking by him, regardless. Seems like this was bound to happen--all of the years of "stuff" going on in his head about that family, and the way they treated his mother.
Great advice, all. Forgiveness is key--like I said, I don't have the trappings of a large family, so I'm not sure what it's like, but just looking from the outside in on this one, it's no picnic. I believe that he really just wants to make peace with his grandfather, who he has always adored more than anything on this earth. I'm happy if he acheives that. I'm sure the phones have been ringing off the hook among the two sisters and their respective clans because they can't leave well enough alone, but, at least he mailed the letter.
Just think of all of the roads there are...all of the things I haven't seen....yet. |
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Love-in-a-Mist
True Blue Farmgirl
367 Posts
Shannon
Independence
Oregon
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 2:53:45 PM
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I agree with Bluewrenn.
I married into a big family farm and have learned to keep my mouth shut. His family is so different then mine. My family is spread all over America and we are closer to each other than his family all in the same area.
Farmgirl and mother of 2
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faithymom
True Blue Farmgirl
360 Posts
Faith
Sandpoint
ID
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 7:52:45 PM
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Gotta love the bad-mouthing exes...
I have a dad who continues to blame my mother, who divorced him, for EVERYTHING that has gone wrong since then. It's ALL her fault...from unwed pregnancies to my brother's drowning... (did I mention it's also her fault that I'm don't agree with him about it? Because I am apparently just my mommy's puppet and I do whatever she wants me to do! How insulting is that?!)
He takes absolutely zero responsibilty for any of it (oh, except for it's his fault because he 'allowed' her to make decisions...AKA: she took over control of certain things that he wasn't taking care of)
It is so infuriating and endless.
They divorced over 16 years ago and I still have to hear about it no matter how many times I have asked him to stop talking badly about my MOM to me, I had no say in the divorce and can't change it, I'm sick of hearing about it, etc...
Him blaming her for my brother's death is the worst (he was 28)...I don't know how he manages to justify that in his head. I'd like to clobber him for saying that...I just might if he ever says it again!
If anyone reading this is going through a divorce or separated from their child's other parent...PLEASE, coming from someone who has been on the child's side of these issues (and now being on the mom side of it, too)....
DON'T TALK BADLY ABOUT THE OTHER PARENT TO YOUR CHILD!!! It only hurts and confuses them... and ultimately back-fires, I think... I am certainly not as open when talking to my dad as I'd like to be especially if the conversation might touch on anything that in some convoluted way relates back to mom... and it all seems to...
<sigh>
ok, I'm getting down off my soapbox...
Sorry to vent a bit much there....my mom made me do it... ROFL!!!
I feel for your husband, Jonni, and for you as well... family is tough!
I do love every one of them and talk to them regularly, but we sure can get into some doozies!
Faith
"All television is educational television. The only question is, what is it teaching?"-Fmr. FCC Commissioner Nicholas Johnson |
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bramble
True Blue Farmgirl
2044 Posts
2044 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2007 : 07:50:40 AM
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Jonni- This goes back to issues way before you were in the picture whether anyone else recognizes that or not. Your party was just the catalyst for what had been brewing a very long time. MY husbands family never says anything and that is frequently just as bad!
I think maybe you could ask your husband if he feels like it's time to mend fences and if he feels he can lay down some ground rules for everyone who has been hurtful. He was manipulated and lied to during the divorce and after, are these people who will give him peace or cause him more pain? He is entitled to have a relationship with both parents if that's what he wants and no one should interfere. You might talk w/dh and ask him what would make him happy. Are these people capable of it? That is what I would want to know before any further contact occurs. I know it's not easy to watch your husband struggle with this, be supportive , people are "funny" when it comes to their families no matter how dysfunctional.
with a happy heart |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2007 : 09:53:31 AM
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You're right--folks are "funny" when it comes to family, and I would never stand in his way if he wanted to be involved with them again, but I really feel like this has been an eye opening experience for him (and me, sadly). I loved his Grandmother so very much, and it was very hurtful what she did, but Bramble is right--my party was just a catalyst for what had been brewing for a very long time. I think what they can't stand, is that after my husband's father remarried, J___ and my mother in law became very close--in fact, they're best friends, and I absolutely, positively feel SO blessed by that. Dh's father and mother remarried and have sons from each marriage, so my husband and his sister have two half brothers. J____ says that when she goes to my inlaws for family gatherings, they just cut my MIL apart--talk about her constantly, but what J___ doesn't know is that they just do that to everyone. Maybe she does. Maybe she has much more grace than I do. Anyway, we spend all holidays together, especially now that there are two grandchildren--and it's so nice to be together without "baggage" and hurt feelings, or feeling like you need a coctail after you leave their homes.
They spent a lot of time making sure I wouldn't like her either, and when I said, "what happened between my husband and his mother is between them--I have no idea what transpired, so if I meet her, I'll need to make my own decision..." that put me in their bad graces--they spoke to me, but I was "one of them"....it was ok, because I really didn't feel it was fair to demonize someone that I didn't know on any level--I could'nt even picture what she might look like, so how could I hate her?
I get this feeling that this apology has limits. I mean, I feel like if he wanted to address the whole family, he would have, but he made sure that the apology was directed at his grandparents, who, I know he values. He really didn't enjoy he rest of the obligation to the aunts, cousins, etc...he's always been the black sheep, so to speak and felt that they suffered from tunnel vision (bigotry, lots of fear of "different") so they've always kept him at arms length. So, I feel it does have caveats.
Today, he's working in the back yard (from the damage due to the icestorm) and he seems peaceful--dilligent, deliberate. I think that's positive, as he hasn't been that way for some time.
Thanks again, girls. You are just the best at looking at things from all angles.
Love and light to you!!!!
Just think of all of the roads there are...all of the things I haven't seen....yet. |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2007 : 09:12:21 AM
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*Update*...
Well, it's been about 4 weeks or so since my husband's mailed apology reached his grandparents, and they came to see him while he was working, had lunch, a little chat, and things are progressing nice and slow...nothing earth shattering, really, and, other than being invited to his grandfather's 80th birthday bash, we've led our lives just as we want to--busy bees, doing what we normally do, on our own.
Until this week....my husband told me that the very Aunt who caused all of the problems (see above)called him at work on Tuesday. Initially he didn't know who he was talking to, and was very distracted with the lunch rush. She wanted to let him know that they were all "very glad" that he'd apologized to his grandparents, "that's the only thing we wanted, you know." and because he was busy, he had to end the call. No mention of any of the harm she'd caused, or apologies for the things she'd done to his mother, or said about me, because well, that would be admitting that you're wrong, which this gal (or the family) never does....She called him again at work on Wednesday, but he'd already gone, and then she phoned him again yesterday (Thursday), to invite us to her Easter dinner. Here's what I find interesting--since Justin's sister had children, our immediate family (his father--the Aunt's brother) hasn't spent Easter, Thanksgiving, or Christmas Day anywhere but my SIL's in Indianapolis. Since the time of my husband's outburst, even his sister has stopped going to see them so often because of how they treat her mother (and, lucky girl, lives 2 hours away). So again, it appears devisive. The invite asks him choose between having a holiday that includes "his" family, who didn't turn their backs on him, and which happily includes his mother (whom they hate), stepfather and half brother. It's a "be on our side" thing, and it's sooo weird that adults act this way. And again, I'm going to say this: they never liked me. They said terrible things about me (and probably still do to this day) so why on EARTH would they want me to come to their holiday dinner. It's just bizarro.
I feel really bad for my husband. I asked him if he thought she was just trying to be nice, and he said, "Nice? Nice? The woman can't be trusted!"....He wondered why she wouldn't call him at our house? Duh. Because she might get me on the phone, you know :)).
He really just wanted to apologize to his grandparents and not have much to do with anyone else, because it gets so ugly. But can you really say that? I know I can bow out at anytime--that's not a problem for non-family, but he feels trapped already. He's worried that if he says something to her, everyone will be angry with him again, and his father will have to put up with THAT for the next several years.
Seems like a no-win to me!!
"In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt." Margaret Atwood
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Tina Michelle
True Blue Farmgirl
6948 Posts
Tina
sunshine state
FL
USA
6948 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2007 : 10:48:49 AM
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hmm..maybe you and your husband can find a book about how to avoid being manipulated. And how to avoid falling victim to manipulative tactics.
Seems that's what is at issue here.He has fallen into the trap of being manipulated and the family members involved know how to do some pretty good manipulating it seems to me.
So, I'd suggest some good reading material on how to break the cycle of manipulation.
http://www.ebookmall.com/ebook/143557-ebook.htm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9800E2D7103CF935A25751C1A9659C8B63
also a short article on dealing with difficult people(it is geared towards "in the workplace" but alot of the ideas can be used outside of a work context as well):
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2004/11/dealing-with-difficult-people/
Also..if I were your husband when it comes to calls at work..I'd tell my employer to only allow calls you/his wife to be allowed to come through..all others should be told to contact him at his home, not during business/work hours.
I really hope that you both can come to a happy solution in this..at least for yourselves.
Blessings to you both
~Seize the Day! Live, Love, Laugh~ |
Edited by - Tina Michelle on Mar 30 2007 10:53:53 AM |
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Family Matters: Family trials and tribs..I should just keep quiet? |
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Family trials and tribs..I should just keep quiet?
