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Garden Gate:  E-coli and gardening?  |
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medievalcat
True Blue Farmgirl
256 Posts
Cynthia
White County
Arkansas
USA
256 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 26 2006 : 8:00:05 PM
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I have a new spot I'd like to put next year's garden. My concern is that it's close to my neighbor's field where they spread manure at least once a year and allow cows to graze there most the year.
After the spinach scare, I looked up information on the e.coli out break and it appears that wild pigs may have gotten into the spinach fields and did their business but they really don't know for sure. I read that you can get e.coli from walking through any sort of barnyard feces and getting it inside your home.
How we managed not to get it has amazed me to this point. We are always going through one pen or another, knocking the sod off our shoes, and going on through the house.
Anyone know what the recommendations are on planting near a cow field, do we need a fence in place to keep animals from walking through cow patties then traipsing through the garden, or should I not think about putting it near that field at all?
I’m open to any suggestions!
Thanks!
Cindy |
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Libbie
Farmgirl Connection Cultivator
3579 Posts
Anne E.
Elsinore
Utah
USA
3579 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2006 : 10:09:06 PM
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Great questions - I wish I had some answers - maybe the other farmgirls out here have some insight?
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
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Mari-dahlia
True Blue Farmgirl
269 Posts
Marianne
Hoosick Falls
New York
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2006 : 04:15:34 AM
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| Most farmers spread "raw" manure( uncomposted) in the fall. This gives time for pathogens to disappear. This is also the method for organic farmers. They have a chart, If I remember correctly, raw manure has to be on the field for at least 120 days before planting. |
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Horseyrider
True Blue Farmgirl
1045 Posts
Mary Ann
Illinois
1045 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2006 : 04:59:04 AM
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The biggest reason I ever heard for waiting to plant after spreading was that the fresh nitrogen will burn the plants.
I've never had any problem with manure from animals who are herbivores. That means cows, horses, sheep, etc. You don't want to use manure from hogs, dogs, or cats on your garden; at least not on purpose. Hog manure is really hot anyway, a lot like chicken litter, and is best spread in the fall or winter.
All those years organic gardening, and we never even heard of issues with e. coli as long as we didn't try to use human waste. |
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Mari-dahlia
True Blue Farmgirl
269 Posts
Marianne
Hoosick Falls
New York
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2006 : 05:26:00 AM
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| The 120 day waiting period is a USDA organic regulation. I do not know if it has anything to do with reality. |
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LJRphoto
True Blue Farmgirl
760 Posts
Laura
Hickory Corners
MI
USA
760 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2006 : 08:24:59 AM
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I have a hard time believing that the triple washed spinach e. coli contamination was from wild pigs. It seems much more likley that an outbreak as far spread as that one was would have been caused by a problem with the water supply with which they were washing the spinach. Also, human waste is heavily treated before being spread on fields and e. coli is the main thing that they check for before spreading it (not that there might not be other horrendous things in it). I find it more concerning to think about what else makes it's way into the sludge as far as things being poured down the drain that shouldn't be.
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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MsCwick
True Blue Farmgirl
775 Posts
Cristine
Farmville
Virginia
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2006 : 11:50:20 PM
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Do they spread sludge where you are too? They spread it here and there are a lot of people fighting it. I think it's disturbing.
Also, I saw on TV that if you have pets, you have e coli on everything they walk on. I have 4 cats, a dog, and 2 horses, and Ive never been sick. |
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Norskema
True Blue Farmgirl
98 Posts
Candace
Central Indiana Area
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 6:42:08 PM
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I thought the issue with the spinach wasn't external contamination but that it had become systemic so the bacteria was within the plant. Is that right? Sure seems like there have been some goofy theories about what went wrong there. I loved Marianne's comment on the USDA... very funny and most likely too true.
Every way of a man seems right to himself but the Lord is the tester of hearts. Proverbs 21:2 |
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Marybeth
True Blue Farmgirl
6418 Posts
Mary Beth
Stanwood
Wa 98292
USA
6418 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 8:38:12 PM
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Candace you are right about the CA. spinach problem supposedly being systemic. And wild pigs...PULEEZE!!! I wish everyone would grow their own greens but if not buy local and hopefully organic.
life may not be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well dance! |
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medievalcat
True Blue Farmgirl
256 Posts
Cynthia
White County
Arkansas
USA
256 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 8:55:48 PM
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I try to be 100% organic...and even bought spinich the week before all this happened. I know this outbreak has effected the organic industry... I hope people give it a try again.
Thank you ladies for the help and comments. I wonder if the USDA is trying to tarnish the organic movement...any thoughts?
"The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today." President Roosevelt |
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DaisyFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
1646 Posts
Diane
Victoria
BC
Canada
1646 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 9:35:55 PM
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Purely speculative Cynthia, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit. You think mega corporations like Monsanto, Dupont, Bayer, etc. are thrilled with the billion dollar explosion in the organic market and an increasingly informed (and paranoid) general public? They are huge corporate tax bases and I'll bet money they are campaign contributors as well. No influence at all, nope, none...lol.
Diane
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KarenP
True Blue Farmgirl
666 Posts
Karen
Chippewa Falls
Wisconsin
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2006 : 04:48:35 AM
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I feel the e-coli was caused by factory type farming where all the animals are confined and exposed to everybody elses feces.
I think if animals are pastured it's a good thing, and should be a good sign.
just my 2 cents
KarenP
"Purest Spring Water in the World" |
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Mari-dahlia
True Blue Farmgirl
269 Posts
Marianne
Hoosick Falls
New York
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2006 : 11:48:06 AM
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| How much of this was a good excuse for the mega corporations to radiate our food. They even tried to make radiated vegetables and fruit an organic process this year. It was by the skin of the organics movements teeth that that was not allowed in the bill. |
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medievalcat
True Blue Farmgirl
256 Posts
Cynthia
White County
Arkansas
USA
256 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2006 : 7:24:28 PM
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I noticed in the news...I'm a news hound, that the reports speculate it was wild pigs now... no one can say for sure nor are they saying for sure. Organic farming has been trying for years to become mainstay...I mean come on now many people like their carrots radiated??? I plan on gardening organically this year (like I do every year) and I'll use a little common sense, I'll keep space between my garden and the cows... I'll try to keep the chickens out.... and I promise not to use my garden for my toilet. And hope I don't get e.coli or sominilla from the grocery store.
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2006 : 04:19:02 AM
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I've also heard the story that e. coli contamination is spread by lack of toilet facilities in large factory fields where migrant workers are picking. Maybe this is an old wive's tale. I don't have any actual facts to back this up.
My sister used to work for the farm workers union and if any people need a union, they are it. The stories about planes flying over fields and spraying them with pesticides just break your heart.
Large growers seem to be primarily the ones to use the migrant workers, another reason for buying from local farmers you know.
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my blog at http://brightmeadowfarms.blogspot.com ,web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2006 : 2:09:07 PM
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All types of manure can (and I feel SHOULD) be composted and used in gardening. This includes not only cow/sheep/horse/goat/chicken/rabbit but dog/cat/hog/hum-anure also. Well composted manure of any form is benefical to the soil.
Some manures are 'hotter' (contain more nitrogen) than others and have a longer composting time. 'cold' manures, like rabbit, can be applied directly to the roots. You'll also want to take into consideration the make up of your soil. I have predominantly sand that leeches nutrients away quickly after rains. I put heavily manured compost in the aisles of my gardens to combat that
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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Norskema
True Blue Farmgirl
98 Posts
Candace
Central Indiana Area
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2006 : 4:11:39 PM
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I have always thought that you didn't use waste from meat-eating animals because of sanitary reasons and the danger of contamination such as e-coli if the compost hasn't cured properly. It sounds like your sandy soil may be more forgiving than my more stubborn clay in Indiana. Perhaps a very experience grower would do well using all sources of waste but as someone less experienced, I would be hesitant to attempt this without the guidance of someone in person to show me how to tell when it would be safe to use. Clearly, you are a seasoned 'pro'. I think I'll stick to using plant-eater poop! eek. lol
Every way of a man seems right to himself but the Lord is the tester of hearts. Proverbs 21:2 |
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Marybeth
True Blue Farmgirl
6418 Posts
Mary Beth
Stanwood
Wa 98292
USA
6418 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2006 : 5:03:56 PM
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Cynthis let your chickens stay in your garden. They eat so many bad bugs that that makes them (chickens) beneficial. They help the soil by all the scratching they do and the nibbles they may do to new veggies is outweighed by the good they do. We always let the manure from the rabbit cages fall in to buckets of water and we made rabbit poo tea for the tomatoes. Again if you can't grow it, then buy local and hopefully organic.
www.strawberryhillsfarm.blogspot.com
"Life may not be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well dance!" |
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medievalcat
True Blue Farmgirl
256 Posts
Cynthia
White County
Arkansas
USA
256 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2006 : 7:42:19 PM
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I once had chickens years past that got into my garden and ate every living plant I had. We compost the rabbit manure for use later but I have heard that it's the only manure you can use right away since it's not so "hot".
Has anyone heard of a composting toilet? I've been thinking of getting one.
"The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today." President Roosevelt |
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Garden Gate: E-coli and gardening? |
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E-coli and gardening?
