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Nifty Thrifty:  Can Anyone Tell Me What This Is?  |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 06:07:26 AM
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Hi girls -
I wasn't sure where to post this one, so please forgive me if it's out of place here in this forum!
My son came home from work the other day and said, "Hey Mom - here, I have something for you." He handed me this necklace. They're renovating and converting an old building into new offices and workshops for the company, and he found this while digging at the job site. His foreman considered it to be a piece of junk, so my son asked if he could have it, since he knows I love and am fascinated by such religious articles. I have been trying to find information about it online to no clear avail. I am wondering if any of you might be able to help me identify what it is?
It is made out of some sort of flat metal, measuring about an inch and one-half from top to bottom, and about 2 inches wide. There is a flat seashell-type material layer between the metal and the 3-D metal image.
Obviously, it's an image of the Madonna and Child, so I'm thinking it might be some sort of Catholic medal. I am also quite sure there is significance to the scallop shell shape.
When I started my online research I came across similar religious medals called "shipwreck medals." Although similar, this is so different than others I have seen, so I'm not so sure.
The scallop shell is a Catholic symbol for Baptism, but this doesn't look like a baptismal or Christening item, either.
I'm stumped.
I really could use and would greatly appreciate your help and direction with this... Does this look familiar to any of you? Do you have any idea where I might be able to take it to find out more? I'm going to see if our Priest knows anything about it after Mass tomorrow, too.
I just find these kind of things to be so interesting... the stories and meaning are simply fascinating! I can't wait to find out about this one!!! I'm so thankful to my son for bringing home such a neat treasure for me!
Thanks so much for your help!
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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Rosemary
True Blue Farmgirl
1825 Posts
Virginia
USA
1825 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 08:21:24 AM
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| The Virgin Mary is often associated with the ocean. My name, Mara, is from the same etymological roots as Mary (as well as Miriam, Martha, Maura, Moira, etc.), actually means "sea." There is an ancient idea that the ocean is the mother of life. You'll often see Catholic articles made from shells for this reason, and just because they're pretty. Your item may have come from Mexico. It's very pretty. One of the workmen on the site may miss it. |
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AmethystRose
True Blue Farmgirl
254 Posts
Rosemary
Huntingdon
PA
USA
254 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 08:26:39 AM
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| You might be overthinking on that. I don't think that the item is more than a piece of costume jewelry, but it might have an ethnic slant. The style of the Madonna figure could be a clue. It is a replica of something, and the little dot at the base off the throat could be a clue. I'm not familiar with madonna paintings with a necklace. The bail also looks like an arrowhead shape. You're not far from Carlisle. |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 09:18:56 AM
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Thanks, girls!
Mara - Right, right! You're so right about the shell and the sea and Mary... That's why we often see - and I absolutely DO NOT mean to be disrespectful, here, this was just the term used - "Mary on the Halfshell," as we used to call it back home - statues of the Virgin Mary with a scallop shell sheltering her behind. It was extremely popular back home when we lived near the ocean, and we still do occasionally see her here in the yards of older people here in PA. The necklace was actually buried deep in the soil. The building itself was once a grocery store in the early 1900's, then a clothing store in the early 80's, followed by an auto auction up until a couple of years ago. It has been abandoned since then. I think if it was something someone was looking for, it would've been years ago, but I'll definitely mention it to my son's boss.
Rosemary - The markings on the bail looks more art deco or art nouveau to me, not so much arrowhead... I'm pretty sure it's old, either way. We're not too far from Busy Run though, either, so you could have a point there! There's LOTS of history around us! I'm not sure what to think. The image of the Madonna and Child are reminiscent of the Virgin Mary of Kazan, except the Child Jesus in this image is looking up toward Heaven, which is a bit different... I'm sure it has some sort of significance. Old religious images like this usually do.
I don't think the piece is particularly worth anything monetarily; it's value is probably more in its meaning. The metal and chain seem to be quite weathered, and not valuable. I think it may have had more of a religious meaning or something. I just want to learn the significance of the piece, you know? - The history behind it. When we moved into our home and were digging up the front garden, we found a little statue of St. Joseph buried in the ground. Later we learned that this was an old Catholic practice that, with prayer, was supposed to bring a quick sale to the home. We also found a small statue of Jesus with a flame on His forehead buried with it. As far as I could find out, it was only a symbol of the Holy Spirit and meant as a blessing on our home. Our home is haunted (not scarey - just we're definitely not alone here), so maybe that's why it was buried there. Who knows? Everything tells a story! I'm sure this medal does, too. :)
This piece is too big, in my estimation, to have been a piece of fashion jewelry, especially considering the time period in which it must've been created. The building is located across the street from an Amvets building, so I'm somewhat wondering if it might have been something given to a soldier or sailor going off to war. I'm just not sure what to think. I am really looking forward to finding out more, though!!! Maybe I should call the Amvets??
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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Edited by - Ninibini on Jun 23 2012 09:26:24 AM |
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prariehawk
True Blue Farmgirl
2914 Posts
Cindy
2914 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 09:22:41 AM
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The image is from a popular icon of the Madonna and child. The hospital where I work has pictures of it everywhere. I think the icon actually came from the Eastern branch of the Catholic Church. It's based on the ancient belief that Jesus looked like a little man as a baby. Someone who's familiar with the Eastern Orthodox Church might know more about it.
cindy
"Vast floods can't quench love, no matter what love did/ Rivers can't drown love, no matter where love's hid"--Sinead O'Connor
"In many ways, you don't just live in the country, it lives inside you"--Ellen Eilers
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 09:27:23 AM
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Yes! That's what I was thinking, Cindy! The image is very Byzantine, isn't it!? My girlfriend is Eastern Orthodox... I'll have to ask her! I'm glad you brought that up! Thank you!!!
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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AmethystRose
True Blue Farmgirl
254 Posts
Rosemary
Huntingdon
PA
USA
254 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 10:47:43 AM
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| Now you have my researching juices flowing....It's been a long time, and I've forgotten a lot. The statue with the flame is St Jude. Someone must have really needed to sell the house! Another custom was to put a statue (Mary, I think) in the window facing outside on the night before a wedding for good weather. |
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Rosemary
True Blue Farmgirl
1825 Posts
Virginia
USA
1825 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 4:07:44 PM
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The actual Madonna and Child portion of this necklace is pretty common. Sometimes it serves as a "miraculous medal" all by itself, but I think it was usually just manufactured for the purpose of mounting it on something else, whether jewelry or some household item. Note the curve of the bottom, indicating that it could easily have been inserted into a circle to serve as a pendant or, again, to mount on something to make it a religious item. When I was a girl, the sale table after church would have things like trinket boxes with something like that on top. The backside looks like the pewter that's often used, even today, for inexpensive castings of jewelry and other decorative items. The Madonna and Child seem to be of a different metal, probably cast bronze. I think this was pieced together for sale to Catholic tourists in a seaside city or town. Again, it's very pretty.
Three other tiny thoughts:
First, I should have mentioned that in Hebrew, "mara" means "bitter," as in bitter herb (think Passover seders). The mother/sea connection is more Romance languages (think the French words mer for ocean and mère for mother, and so on).
Second thought: the bale and chain look old to me, more like 30s or 40s than anything more modern, though, as you say, they don't look expensive.
Third thought is that in medieval and Byzantine times, children (not just the infant Jesus) were depicted as little men, and not only in religious art. It was a "thing" of that period, just as scale and perspective were a thing, although in that case, there *was* a religious element: it was thought sinfully proud to take a "godly" point of view, or so one theory goes. Since the Catholic Church uses and reuses many images from many time periods in its religious items, it doesn't necessarily help us place this piece to note the Byzantine "look" of Baby Jesus. It doesn't seem really Eastern/Russian/Greek Orthodox or Coptic to me, since in those Madonna images, you don't see 3/4 realistic body positions, but rather, face-on. I dunno though. Gonna have to put my new stirrup hoe aside to do a leetle research. Thanks! I love this kind of thing, don't you? |
Edited by - Rosemary on Jun 23 2012 4:16:16 PM |
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Rosemary
True Blue Farmgirl
1825 Posts
Virginia
USA
1825 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 5:12:35 PM
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| I found this: http://collectibles.rubylane.com/collectibles/,ss=madonna%20and%20child%20medal . Note the second item from the left in the top row. The image seems very close to yours. Could be struck from the same series of little molds. I also read on nother site that it was common for medals in the 1930s to have Deco touches -- so that might indeed help to identify it. My romantic self wants this to have belonged to a Navy dude back form the war. He might have gotten it in the South Pacific. The mother of pearl looks vintage, has the same golden tone as my 1890s-1920s opera glasses. It also looks to be all one piece, rather than little strips, which also suggests older. |
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machick
True Blue Farmgirl
60 Posts
Diana
Park City
Kansas
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 5:36:47 PM
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Maybe if you took it to a jewler they could tell you something about it. It may have been at the site since the building was first built. They could at least tell you what the metals are. Keep us posted on what you find out.
May your bobbins always be full!!! |
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rksmith
True Blue Farmgirl
858 Posts
Rachel
Clayton
GA
USA
858 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 6:08:30 PM
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To me, it looks like am amulet for Yemaya (Ocean Orisha) in Hoodoo. I will check with some people who are far more knowledgeable than I am on the Orishas to see what they think and will let you know what I find out.
Rachel
Farmgirl Sister #2753
True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised-- His Holiness the Dali Lama
www.madameapothecary.com |
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Rosemary
True Blue Farmgirl
1825 Posts
Virginia
USA
1825 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 6:40:10 PM
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| I think you might be on to something. For those who aren't familiar with Hoodoo, it's a unique fusion of ancient African nature-based spirituality and Catholicism; Yemaya is the Hoodoo version of the Virgin Mary, only even more intensely associated with water (and its healing powers) than she is in Catholic tradition. She is truly an earth mother, a creatrix. While the little Madonna and Child piece is definitely Catholic in origin, it could well have been mounted in the mother-of-pearl setting for Hoodoo use. Such blends are typical of sacred Hoodoo items. |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 7:57:52 PM
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Thank you SO much girls!
YES, Mara! That IS the exact image! A childhood girlfriend of mine from RI emailed to tell me that this is Our Lady of Perpetual Help. She sent a few images that matched exactly. Here is one of them: http://sz0009.wc.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/270px-Our_Mother_of_Perpetual_Help.jpg?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=1186121&part=2 I was floored!
She went on to say that, "I know the shell is a symbol of fertility. Something about the dew that makes the pearl in an oyster shell fell on Mary and became the Christ child. I probably have that all mixed up but it jumped in my head when I saw your pictures. Makes me wonder if that is why oysters are considered an aphrodisiac." LOL! She's too funny! But I do believe she has pointed me in the right direction!!! I'm going to definitely do a little more research tomorrow and ask the priests about it. I'll definitely keep you posted!!!
Thank you so much for that information, too, Mara! More pieces to add to the puzzle! Isn't this fun - and exciting!!! Thank you!!! I'm with you - my romantic side wants to believe this belonged to a sailor... We'll find out! Don't you worry!!! :)
I am familiar with Hoodoo, but I'm hesitant to say that this is anything related, although I do appreciate the thought.. I looked at images of Yemaya online, but I don't really see the resemblance? Maybe it's the water and mother concepts that has you both leaning in that direction? It's an interesting thought, though. I'll definitely keep that in mind.... After reading my girlfriend's email, though, I'm quite certain it's Our Lady of Perpetual Help. She is a figure that my girlfriend and her family would definitely have been very familiar with growing up. She is doing more research for me and I promise to share whatever she finds!!!
The neatest thing is, I had just been reading up on Our Lady of Perpetual Help a couple of weeks ago. I had not seen the images of her, I had only been doing a little personal research about the names of The Blessed Mother, and... well... Just funny how things come together, isn't it? I had never even given that a thought until I read my girlfriend's email! WOW!!! Makes this medal all that more special and meaningful to me, for sure! To be quite honest, I'm really blown away by the whole thing!!! When I tell my son, he's going to flip, because we had just been discussing Our Lady of Perpetual Help!
RIGHT, Mara! Saint JUDE! I'm sorry! You are SO right! That's who the little statue was! DUH!
BTW - My son reminded me that this building was also once a Goodwill center at one point, too, so it's quite possible this is something that came in one of the donation bags... Who knows?
Thanks so much for your help, girls! You ROCK! I'm so excited! I can't wait to learn the whole story! I'll keep you posted - PROMISE!!!
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
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Rosemary
True Blue Farmgirl
1825 Posts
Virginia
USA
1825 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 11:16:31 AM
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The second one has the exact same Madonna and Child casting, though in a different metal. The setting doesn't look nearly as old or the same quality as yours. The "mother of pearl" is just thin plastic, while yours looks to me like the real deal.
"Our Lady of Perpetual Help" is just one of several names given to Madonna images. It doesn't pin anything down, really, though it might help when zeroing in on a specific wholesaler.
Did you notice that eBay has a community for collectors of vintage religious items? You might want to post to them for some feedback. |
Edited by - Rosemary on Jun 24 2012 11:18:42 AM |
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rksmith
True Blue Farmgirl
858 Posts
Rachel
Clayton
GA
USA
858 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2012 : 1:53:52 PM
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Hoodoo is quite fused with Catholicism and there are tons of images of the Orishas, Lwas, etc who are depicted as Saints and other important Catholic people. This was done originally to keep the folks who practiced the "heathen" religions from being persecuted. Nowadays it is done to keep with tradition. Just a thought. It is very pretty though.
Rachel
Farmgirl Sister #2753
True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised-- His Holiness the Dali Lama
www.madameapothecary.com |
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texdane
Farmgirl Legend Chapter Leader Chapter Guru
4658 Posts
Nicole
Sandy Hook
CT
USA
4658 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2012 : 07:47:35 AM
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Nini,
Wow! Very cool. I am not catholic, but reading the posts has me so intrigued. Really pretty piece. It looks old, for sure, especially with the shell. I'm sure it has some history! Very interesting. Keep us posted.
Nicole
Farmgirl Sister #1155
KNITTER, JAM-MAKER AND MOM EXTRAORDINAIRE
Chapter Leader, Connecticut Simpler Life Sisters
Suburban Farmgirl Blogger
http://sfgblog.maryjanesfarm.org/ |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
7577 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
7577 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 08:14:29 AM
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Okay! Okay! Okay!!! I think we have an answer or, at least, we have a good lead in the right direction!!!!
Father John said that the seashell is a sign associated with a pilgrimage. He said there is a pilgrimage that takes place from Le Puy in France to Santiago de Campostela, Spain to the Cathedral. Also known as the Way of Saint James, or St. James' Way, in Spanish the route is known as El Camino de Santiago. It's a 500 mile trip, and you can either walk it, ride a horse or a bike. He said at the end of the journey you receive a medal, and this is most likely the medal received by the person who took the pilgrimage. Father John said the movie, "The Journey," made by Emilio Esteves, which starred both himself and his father, Martin Sheen, was actually about this trip. When the son attempts to make the journey, he freezes to death in the mountains during the night. The father decides to make the pilgrimage in his son's place, and the story is about all the people he meets along the way. Father John said it's a very interesting movie, and highly recommends it!
Upon further investigation, I've found many websites that discuss the pilgrimage - you may want to check it out, as it is very interesting to read. The seashell most definitely is associated with this particular pilgrimage, but the only pic I could find of it was an actual shell with the Cathedral or an image of St. James himself on it, rather than Our Lady of Mother of Perpetual Help. I have to run out right now, but will do some further investigating tonight when I have more time to myself. If anyone of you find out anything more, please do let us know!!!
Very interesting, extremely exciting stuff to me! Such fun to see the mystery unfold!
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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Edited by - Ninibini on Jun 28 2012 08:15:20 AM |
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Emily Anna
True Blue Farmgirl
863 Posts
Emily
Fort Atkinson
WI
USA
863 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2012 : 5:52:24 PM
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Nini,
This is so cool! I love, love, love hearing the history of things. I've been obsessed with watching reruns of Antiques Roadshow. lol!
I have seen "The Journey" and it is a pretty cool movie. When you first started talking about the pilgrimage, I thought of that movie right away.
I am so glad your son's foreman thought it was junk so you could have it!!
Emily |
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BlackHorseFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
91 Posts
Elizabeth
Chicago
IL
USA
91 Posts |
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nancypo
True Blue Farmgirl
362 Posts
nancy
boise
idaho
USA
362 Posts |
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darlenelovesart
True Blue Farmgirl
7631 Posts
darlene
Loleta
California
USA
7631 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2012 : 6:34:34 PM
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Wow Nini that is really intersting history.
Thanks.
I have learned that to have a good friend is the purest of all God's gifts, for it is a love that has no exchange of payment.
by Frances Farmer |
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Nifty Thrifty: Can Anyone Tell Me What This Is? |
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Can Anyone Tell Me What This Is?
