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Barnyard Buddies:  Thoughts on Animal ID?  |
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 09:03:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brightmeadow
Several people have hit on the problem that I see - I didn't mind tatooing my purebred Angora rabbits for the breed registry - this was required if I wanted to sell purebred, registered rabbits, or if I wanted to show them in a rabbit show. But my records were my private records - I didn't have to send them in to a government office.
Rabbits are not included for some reason in the NAIS
Cyndi
Say NO! to National Animal ID
http://www.NoNAIS.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Illinois_Against_NAIS
Joshua 24:15
Muller's Lane Farm
http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 2:59:47 PM
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Isn't that interesting! I wonder why not? They are just as subject to coccidiosis as chickens...
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
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JennyWren
True Blue Farmgirl
201 Posts
USA
201 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2006 : 06:36:49 AM
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Hi..
I have to admit I have not read through the entire 6 pages of entries on this subject so please forgive me if this is somehow repeating.. I found this article from Wired.. www.wired.com/news/politics/0,70716-0.html?tw=rss.index
I was shocked to learn that these tags aren't just like the ones we have for our dogs where the vet runs a scanner over the animal to "read" the ID number.. no... These tags have GPS, and send out a RADIO frequency so they can track the movement of the animal, another words if a cow moves from one pasture to another they (if they want) can "see" the movement.... The other concern is that unauthorized people with the proper reading equiptment can intercept the information, possibly giving out your personal infomation. So it wouldn't just be the government who could have the information. Woooooo.... Somehow or another this takes the term "Big Brother" to a new level.. kinda spooky if you ask me.
If you treat an individual as what he is, he will stay that way, but if you
treat him as if he were what he could be, he will become what he could be.
-- Goethe
www.jennywrensurbanhomestead.blogspot.com/ |
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2006 : 10:56:26 AM
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I work with RF computer systems, and so have a little bit of information about RFID - although I primarily work with 802.11b technology; and I also have an amateur radio license. So while I'm definitely not an expert in animal chipping, I have read a little bit about this technology. I think perhaps the article in WIRED was a little bit exaggerated. The tag (or chip) your vet inserts in your dog to identify it, IS an RFID chip (my company also supports systems that read these chips for humane societies, etc.)
The Wired article suggests that privacy could be invaded by someone "intercepting" the radio transmissions. This is unlikely, because normally these RFID chips have to be read from a short distance, like 5-10 feet maximum. So someone would have to be on your property to read them.
Also typically, these chips do not contain a lot of information - probably they would have a premise identifier code to identify your farm, and a serial number code to identify the individual animal. So even if someone did read it, they would also have to have access to the database stored on the remote computer where the biggest part of the information is stored, in order to really invade your privacy.
I am not as concerned about the unauthorized person trying to get access to the data as I would be about the "authorized" uses that the government users might eventually find for the information. Suppose the data is gathered under the idea that it is to track animals to prevent the spread of disease. 10 years from now, someone decides that the "cash economy" needs to be brought under control - to make sure that all applicable taxes are paid. So now the USDA shares the information with the IRS. Now, I am very scrupulous about doing my taxes honestly and paying my fair share... But I wouldn't want to be subjected to an IRS audit simply because my numbers and the numbers the USDA reported to the IRS don't agree, due to an honest mistake on my part or bureautic bungling on the government's.
In the "third world" and other parts of the world that do not have our form of government, many dictatorships have been put in place because of land use "reform". Recently I have seen some cases of eminent domain law invoked to remove people from their property for the "public good" - locally a couple lost their farm because a school system wanted to move their office building and the farmland was a convenient location for them.
Once the federal government has access to your financial records and a convenient method of auditing them - comparing the financial records to the physical movement of animals - who is to say that it wouldn't be easy enough to share that information in order to seize your farm?
Now these are probably nightmarish-sounding worse-case scenarios and I am sure we have a lot of legal protections to keep this kind of injustice from happening...or do we?? I wish I knew more, or had more faith in "the government".
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
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JennyWren
True Blue Farmgirl
201 Posts
USA
201 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2006 : 2:27:31 PM
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That's the thing... Before I would go along with any of this.. I would want to know what Checks and Balances are going to be put into place.
Thank you for clarifying all of this. I think the checks and balances are what we should be writing to our Congressmen about.
Scary stuff...
If you treat an individual as what he is, he will stay that way, but if you
treat him as if he were what he could be, he will become what he could be.
-- Goethe
www.jennywrensurbanhomestead.blogspot.com/ |
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
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BamaSuzy
True Blue Farmgirl
138 Posts
Alabama
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2006 : 3:22:01 PM
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I am an investigative reporter and continue to talk to governmental folks on this....and the more I learn the more I don't like it....and the more it sounds like it is the really smaller homesteader or farmgirl who will be hurt the worst....
for instance the big chicken growers would likely be assigned just one number for the whole house while us smaller folks with 90 free range chickens would have to identify EVERY chick!
contact your Congressmen and Seneators with your concerns! And contact your State Senators and House members as well!
You can bury a lot of troubles digging in the dirt! |
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2006 : 05:43:30 AM
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This issue is tearing apart our Farmer's Market. It isn't a traditional marekt because it is indoors and offers electricity to vendors so we do have 2 (count them 2) large agri-businesses in the market. We also have 11 small farms as vendors.
When my husband & I wanted to host a meeting on NAIS using the FM building, it was blocked by the large agri-business. There's far more to the story, let's suffice it to say despite their efforts to stop the meeting, we held it at another place and the agri-business guys were outraged.
I have NAIS information at my booth. They want me to not display it. One of the agri-business vendors said last night at the FM board meeting that unless we pull it from our booth, they will quit the market.
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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Libbie
Farmgirl Connection Cultivator
3579 Posts
Anne E.
Elsinore
Utah
USA
3579 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2006 : 6:50:59 PM
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Isn't that interesting. It's always good to get all of the information on any given subject that you can before making a decision, I think. I'm surprised that the larger "agri-businesses" feel differently.
Still learning...
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
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LJRphoto
True Blue Farmgirl
760 Posts
Laura
Hickory Corners
MI
USA
760 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2006 : 6:53:05 PM
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They feel differently because the nais opens up more foreign markets to them.
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2006 : 10:45:23 AM
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Follow the $$$$, NAIS will open the foreign markets. As a plus, there are many small livestock owners that will not want the government (or the Beef Cattlemen Assoc) to hold their information about what livestock they own and will quit producing. Or the small direct-market chicken producers that will not be able to cost justify the additional cost and will quit raising chickens.
The ones that control the food supply, control all
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
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LJRphoto
True Blue Farmgirl
760 Posts
Laura
Hickory Corners
MI
USA
760 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2006 : 09:18:05 AM
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I'm glad to see this becoming more known. I've seen other information regarding this and was having a hard time finding it again. The articles I found before were scholarly and I couldn't get to them without paying to join the sites. Thanks Cyndi.
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2006 : 03:31:54 AM
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Thanks for posting this,Cyndi, it sounds like a voice of reason! It is a good article to have handy to share with others who don't get real excited about NAIS if they think it's a choice between NAIS and bird flu...
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
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santa_gertrudis_gal
True Blue Farmgirl
198 Posts
Kim
Groesbeck
Texas
USA
198 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2006 : 10:14:09 AM
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I thought I would comment on this issue. More from the economic and govermental side as it is what my degrees are in (Agriculture Economics). I've read each post with great interest and agree with both sides each of you have presented.
On Coggins in horses, Texas requires should a horse upon entering a trailer, the owner must have a health certificate and a negative coggins within the past six months, even on intrastate moves. Last October I was one of those individuals you saw on TV evacuating from Hurricane Rita. I loaded two horse that neither had a Negative Coggins or current health certificate and really didn't care. I went from my home which sustained no effects of the Hurricane to a place in East Texas with 60 mph sustained winds. Would I eveacuate again, not on your life. The 189 miles with two special needs animals (one horse and one dog) in 16 hours was awlful and I was so thankful to have a diesal pickup. I prefer to lash myself to a tree. I've already been through a catagory 3 hurricane in my life and now I'd do it again.
Looking at the international economics of our agriculture industry in this country, one must understand we feed the rest of the world. I too, feel we would be much better off as a society if we could all eat organic products, but then we couldn't even feed our country. I took a graduate class in International Agriculture Economics. We had a visiting professor who just completed his dissertation and had done work in the Peace Corp in Jamaica. I was dissappointed when the course became his opinion on world hunger. The paper I had to write backed up by research received a C because he disagreed with my opinion. What I do know is in the third world with much greater government corruption the masses suffer from lack of basic services such as food. When there are no full stomaches there is rebellion, and education becomes the lowest priority. Without food and no education you have what we saw in Afganistan and the Sudan. Food and Education are the link to any country moving forward. Un-educated masses are easier for a dictitorial regume to control, and they do this mostly by limiting food and producing a climit of fear. Please remember when it comes to animal genetics we lead the world and the world looks to us to import those genetics into their countries.
To be more politically incorrect, I hate the term genetic engineering. We have been genetically engineering our domestic animals forever. We are now genetically engineering our deer population on a grand scale since the early 70's. Just to meet the needs of that big buck with the big rack for hunters. We aren't doing this on the DNA level. It is being done through man made selection. Many of our big south Texas Bucks have made their way to the northern states. Now on hunting shows I see Illinois bucks with racks to compete with the south Texas bucks. Will the deer be included in this since they are ruminants and have the capability to pass on burcellois. I think not.
I've also thought much about the WW1 outbreak of a world wide flu that actually killed more people then those who died in WW1. No one has mentioned the impact of contamination of beef in the early 1900's because of no regulation in slaughter houses. I've not seen anyone mention this when talking in generalities about disease. I think the NAIS is driven mostly out of fear, and not really given a good overall analysis. I think for the small producer who's animals are meant to sustain the family should not have to tag the animals. Only those actually sold off the farm/ranch to enter the food supply.
As for bureaucratic nightmare, it will occur without a doubt, but then again what isn't mired in it when it comes to our government. This bureaucratic mess will actually be what protects the producer. I too, believe the program to be just another tax on the producer, producing more money for the government to waste.
Over the years I have become every cynical about our government. Even more so at our state level. Three years ago our Texas legislature got into such an argument that the Democrats walked out and went to Oklahoma. Our stupid Republicans sent the Texas Rangers after them. Our legislature looked like a bunch of kindergarten kids fighting on the playground. This was all over school finance. Gee and we actually have a surplus in our state treasury. Finally, the dummies have decided to fix the problem by putting in a state flat tax on business, what someone terms a francise tax, but the business I own is not a francise and I'll still be taxed. This impending tax has caused us to already layoff an employee and forced me back to work for a minumum of ten hours a week. The tax will be one percent of my gross revenue. Remember I said gross and not net. As both a social and economic conservative I find myself enacting my own term limits. I don't vote for anyone currently in office. How does this relate to NAIS, more government control.
With sadness I fill out my Premise ID today to comply with the regulation, not from the standpoint of safety of our food supply but with the knowledge that it is one more tax. This true free market economist doesn't like the whole mess. It would be nice if it was really meant to protect our food supply.
Just so you don't slam me, we as a family have moved away from eating foods with preservatives and moved to organics where possible. Don't tell me to grow a garden, where I live as a cottage community to Houston I live in a subdivision where the lots are 1-10 acres. I live on the north side of the street, our county sprays for mosquitos and sometimes it is aerial spraying. Our prevailing winds are from the south 90% of the year so our garden is not truly organic, sniff  . Can't wait to move to Groesbeck.
Here's one more thought not having to do with Agriculture but our government stupidity. We know of the deplorable conditions of Home Land Security. We are involved in the trucking industry. Without getting winded we actually lost contact with a truck for 16 hours. As a result we went to satellite tracking of our trailers. It was not to spy on our owner/operators but to protect them. The end result was a stupid lazy underpaid Georgia DOT official at a scale house that wouldn't get off their backside to check the trucks at the scale. The wife of this owner/operater was beside herself. To protect this nation it is not the truck that is the danger but the trailer whether a flatbed, van, or container which will cause the destruction. All trailers need the satellite tracking device not the truck. There is no bureaucracy in this addition to our trucks. Believe me if a trucking company looses contact with a truck they are very proactive in trying to find the truck quickly. Their concern for the health of the driver is the priority. Highway Watch is a good program but Federal DOT regulations just need the update.
IMHO just my thoughts! I'll get off my soapbox!
Kim
Heaven is a day at the ranch with my Santa Gertrudis! |
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2006 : 1:18:12 PM
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Very well thought out, Kim. The USDA is justifying having the small producer who raises our own food comply with the NAIS because of disease control. (and the possibililty we *may* sell/trade/give away our meat)
We won't willingly comply to any of this - The state knows us and where we live - when it becomes a LAW, then we may comply or quit raising our own food.
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
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santa_gertrudis_gal
True Blue Farmgirl
198 Posts
Kim
Groesbeck
Texas
USA
198 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 08:07:15 AM
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Interesting article. Japan has always been our biggest importer of beef. In Japan, a prime steak is considered a delicacy and they pay huge money for it. Of interesting note, we can't buy prime beef unless you have a meat market that will either order it or sells it routinely. The only other place to get a prime beef steak is at specialty restraunts. Prime beef that is not exported or sold to the markets above goes to Taco Bell, and is ground for their use. So next time you want prime beef, visit a Taco Bell.
The opening helps, but live cattle are still under export ban, only semen and embryos can be exported, except for Canada.
Kim
Heaven is a day at the ranch with my Santa Gertrudis! |
Edited by - santa_gertrudis_gal on Aug 01 2006 08:08:19 AM |
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 4:06:26 PM
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LOL!!
My husband works on big heavy equipment/trucks for our neighbor the electrical contractor, in his spare time. In return the contractor takes us out to dinner occasionally at the best restaurant in town. The most expensive steak on the menu is prime beef, you guessed it, imported from Japan! I haven't asked why on earth they would do that- yet!
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
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santa_gertrudis_gal
True Blue Farmgirl
198 Posts
Kim
Groesbeck
Texas
USA
198 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2006 : 09:02:12 AM
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LOL, that's just too funny! I think I would be asking....since the steak probably made a round trip.
Kim
Heaven is a day at the ranch with my Santa Gertrudis! |
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brightmeadow
True Blue Farmgirl
2045 Posts
Brenda
Lucas
Ohio
USA
2045 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2007 : 7:05:56 PM
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Gals, we haven't talked about this topic for a while. Have we lost interest, decided it's inevitable, going to comply?
A few weeks ago there was a letter to the editor from an 80-year-old local farmer in our local paper. It was very well written, but I missed the on-line edition to copy it. He warned that our freedom isn't going to be lost in Iraq, it will be lost right here, through the implementation of programs like this one, designed to "protect" us.
I've had chats with people I know, and unless they're directly involved in farming, it's hard to get them interested. Some even went so far as to say, "Yawn. It's more efficient to raise food on factory farms, how are we going to feed everyone in the world cheaply through inefficient family farms? So what if family farms are eliminated?"
Any suggestions for making this more well-known to the general public?
I just read the wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Animal_Identification_System and while it is slightly biased (towards the "against" stance) it does seem to cover the bulk of the arguments for and against.
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my blog at http://brightmeadowfarms.blogspot.com ,web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
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babs
True Blue Farmgirl
226 Posts
Babette
MN
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2007 : 08:28:49 AM
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Brenda,
Have you looked at nonais.org?
They have flyers and brochures you can print out and post up at feedmills and everywhere, post them everywhere. It is essential not to give up and keep getting the word out.
No Nais.org also has a listing of email lists by state that you can join and be kept up to date on whats going on.
Another site to look into is http://www.libertyark.net/ Look up your state coordinator and ask what you can do to help!
HTH
Babs
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Tracey
True Blue Farmgirl
766 Posts
Tracey
State of Confusion
USA
766 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2007 : 10:36:52 AM
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Here's the scoop from Washington State:
Senator Marilyn Rassmussen has written a bill to make NAIS MANDATORY!
There is also a bill opposing it, stating that it remain voluntary. Anyone here in WA should let their representatives know that we need to stop Sen. Rasmussen and keep the NAIS voluntary only here.
I think the reason people have been forgetting is because the USDA has done such a great job of making us look like we're a bunch of chicken littles, telling everyone it's purely voluntary and that certain things won't count. But it's all a sham...it's like The Great Oz...
Visit Quiet Storm, our adopted Mustang! http://wildaboutquietstorm.com
http://carpentercreek.blogspot.com
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2007 : 12:28:57 PM
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We've been beating our heads with this for the past 18 months. Heck, Paul was invited to sit on the IL board for NAIS. Turns out all it is, is a group of academea & gooberment officials patting themselves on the back trying to figure out how to make all the small farmers comply.
We're gearing up to be able to keep all our livestock on the farm to raise for ourselves, even if that means keeping a boar that we only need once a year to service our sow. The cow is AI'd
We're also looking into having a mobile state inspected poultry processing vehicle. Self contained. We drive to your farm to process your animals. Animals never leave the farm, no need to sign up for NAIS.
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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MullersLaneFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
596 Posts
Rock Falls
IL
596 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2007 : 12:45:09 PM
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Worth the read
NAIS Useless Guide and the Fine Art of Gerrymandering
A Primer in Agency law and Federal Monetary Manipulation
by Doreen Hannes (animalwaitress@yahoo.com)
The new USDA "User Guide" for NAIS is an attempt by the USDA to deflect criticism and responsibility for the program to the State Departments of Agriculture and to State legislatures. The definition of gerrymandering is unfair manipulation in a political sense. The USDA does that with real finesse in the User Guide.
The most important thing to understand is the process by which agencies make law or "regulations". As of this writing, the USDA has not followed the procedure necessary for the User Guide to meet requirements of an official document with any real moderating effects on the previous documents.
The User's Guide was not entered into the Federal Register and the previous documents, the Draft Strategic Plan, Standards and Tech Supplement as well as Implementation Plan, have not been withdrawn from the Federal Register. Thus the USDA's opening statement, "The 2006 User Guide is the most current plan for NAIS and replaces all previously published program documents, including the 2005 Draft Strategic Plan and Draft Program Standards and the 2006 Implementation Strategies" is what we in the Midwest call a bald faced lie. Since people are generally kept in the dark about how Federal agency rules and regulations are made, here is an attempt to explain it in its most simplistic form.
First and foremost, the agency must have the authority to enact the rules they are proposing. Then they must enter their proposed rule into the Federal Register serving as public notice of their intent. Typically, there will be a period of time for the public to comment on any proposed rules, and the public's comments are available in the reading room in DC or electronically online. After the public comment period the agency must then enter notice of their final rulemaking regarding the regulation. Then the regulation they have made will be codified (put into the proper titles and chapters amending existent regulations where
applicable) and entered into the body of law called the "Code of Federal Regulations", or CFR.
To date, the USDA has not followed this procedure on three documents they have released regarding NAIS. Oddly enough, the documents that haven't followed proper procedure are all the documents that supposedly moderate the National Animal Identification System into something slightly less than pure evil.
The first document that was designed to calm the concerns of the public is "The Guide for Small Scale and Non-Commercial Producers". This document was released in June and was sent to several thousand Missouri residents by Congresswoman JoAnn Emerson to assure them that the NAIS was actually nothing to be concerned about. However, Linda Campbell, the chair of the Goat Species Working Group told me personally that she believed the Guide for Small Scale and Non Commercial Producers was actually written by a PR firm. She was aware that I was both with a small paper and an opponent of the NAIS. The "Guide for Small Scale and Non Commercial Producers" also fails to allow people who choose not to participate in the NAIS to engage in established avenues of commerce. In other words, if you don't want to buy or sell any stock, the NAIS will remain voluntary.
The second document the USDA failed to enter into the Federal Register was a slightly amended version of the April '06 Implementation Strategies. In the amended version the USDA deleted one paragraph (headed as "Contingency Plan" in the original document) regarding following the rule making process, should they fail to achieve their benchmark participation goals, including 100% compliance. They also removed the term "meta data" in two sentences and supplanting it with ATPS (Animal Trace Processing System) in one of those sentences. The last change was removing the word February '07 and replacing it with Spring '07 in a timeline.
---too long to fit in one post....cont'd
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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Barnyard Buddies: Thoughts on Animal ID? |
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Thoughts on Animal ID?
