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Barnyard Buddies:  All Things Sheep and Goats  |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 07:48:09 AM
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Boy is this one of my soap box issues. When we started in Sheep with Southdowns, of coarse they came from two of the biggest shows in the country - however I had no other sheep and I had them vet checked and then they where kept away from all other animals for 6 months... We stopped showing sheep at any shows after our third year because while showing at Estes Park one of my top Icelandic Rams he got very ill and died. Now, when we went to shows we traveled with wood panels to line our pens, signage announcing no touching and why - we washed down everthing and even traveled with our own water. I was heart sick because I did not want to show him but the farm who had purchased him wanted him shown to get their name out there - Yes he took Grand Champ but it cost him his life. What price a ribbon???
Next big soap box issue is docking tails. I have spent years on this issue with sheep association, fair, shows and breeders and I hate the practice no matter how close or how far away you crop. Sheep where born with tails. The first year we did it because we where told that is what you do - the screaming, terror and pain those little lambs went thru just killed me. My youngest son found one of the tails in the pasture and cried for days. Both of my sons asked me why I liked the girls better then the boys? I had no idea what they where talking about until my oldest (13 at the time)said why would we take off their balls - would I do that to human boys - well, I stopped in my tracks and we sat down for a long talk. What I came with after tons of research was again tail docking was a poor management practice not what is best for the sheep. It was so large lot breeds could see who was ready to lamb, so the ewe had nothing in the way of breeding (did you know that they can clamp that tail down so a ram can not breed?), they say it prevents sanitation issues but studies have shown more fly stricks with no tail then tail. The biggest lie is it is going to get the sheep full of poop. No true, they lift their tail or move it to the side. If they are not in horrible conditions this issues never happens. The real reason was for the show ring because that made their rumps like rounder. I NEVER after the first year docked or banded any sheep or goat of mine. Icelandics have short tails which are too be left on in the show ring. WHY not the rest of the breeds who also have any length of tail. It was because the breeders decided not to change what nature made. I personally love watching sheep run and jump with their tails bouncing. I also could tell when a girl was in season by the way she held her tail, when she was in contractions by her tail, they really do have a purpose.
As for banding the rams or billies that again has reasons - if you take them to food market before 8 months of age their meat is never effected. If you are thinking that banding them will assist in their growth that too is alot of missconception. If you band thinking that will make a mellow boy again that is not true - we have all had wethers who still think they are breeders. The only thing it stops is that guy really making babies and that is not always true unless you have a vet do it because I have seen too many breeders screw that up and the male ends up producing offspring. If you are concerned about their fiber - I shear long before they smell (which only happens during rutting season) and trust me their fiber is wonderful.
These practices are again handed down with consideration only for large lot breeding. No I do not believe every guy should be a breeder, that is why we have meat market farms. One way if you do not wish to take that guy to market is make a deal with someone else to purchase them young, trade, barter, or decided not to breed but rather just have a few ewes or weathers.
O.K. I will get off the box - this has as you can tell been a topic of passion for me over the years. I do have one thing to add - I believe in neutering dogs and cats but lets also understand they are not a meat source so population is an issue - not so for those who folks have considered food. I know that sounds harsh but that is the truth.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 06:47:54 AM
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I get upset at the local 4-H show because the tails are cut so close that they had 2 sheep prolapse in the show barn this last summer. That is sad. The health and welfare of the sheep should be accounted for as stewards of these animals.
Sarita
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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Beverley
True Blue Farmgirl
2707 Posts
Beverley
atlanta
Michigan
USA
2707 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 08:05:34 AM
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Oh don't get me started on docking tails. heheheheehe IN the dog world the parent organization makes up what the dog is "suppose" to look like and AKC goes along with that description. So dogs have had their tails docked and ears cropped and Oh this makes me soooo mad. they will dock an english spinger spaniel because they say it is better for when it goes hunting but labs and golden retrievers hunt too and they don't have their tails cut off. Just an awful practice. and I won't even start on ear cropping. I did not know that the practice was carried on with sheep as well but I for one will never do it. I can always tell when my does (goats) are ready to kid because of their tail. God did give dogs and sheep them for a reason why are people always wanting to change that. I could go on and on!!!! I have learned when I get sheep There pretty little tails are staying on!!!!!
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
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5 acre Farmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1007 Posts
~~~*Terri*~~~
WA.
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 08:15:24 AM
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I have never owned sheep, hundreds of goats though, none now, too much for DH and I to keep up...but, one lady talked about giving warm molasses water to her goatee girls after kidding, I did and it seemed to work.
Kid/lamb warming, I did the hair dryer trick also...
One can make ones own kid nurser buckets, I did!
Love to read all of your posts...keep up the good work......love to you all....
Farmgirl Sister #368
http://froccsfrillsfurbiloesandmore.blogspot.com
http://thecontentedwoman.blogspot.com
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 08:47:20 AM
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We raise commercial meat lambs and our commercial buyer will not purchase lambs with tails nor intact males. We sell breeding stock and the breeder who wants to raise either breeding stock or meat lambs wants sheep with docked tails. I don't like the stress this causes the lambs either, but girls, this choice of banding or detailing and castrating is again something that has to fit into your farm business plan and as you can see from this discussion, this can range from one spectrum to the other. This is where a business plan is essential as desired management practices and the customer base to market the sheep you raise go hand in hand. I can see where Grace is coming from completely...her management fits into her farm well with organic and fiber specialties and the breeds she raised.
We castrate and de-tail using bands and have had no problems. Hundreds and hundreds of lambs so far. Have considered trying a more quick and over-with type of method such as a Burdizzo for castrating ram lambs but have stayed with the bands so far. I've gotten good at doing tails, can get them in between the bones so they fall off quicker. I go around picking up tails as they fall off or otherwise the dogs love to go in after we put the sheep out on pasture and have a hey-day.
On shows, we don't do any show circuit with our sheep but do attend one sale a year here in WA just for advertisement as most sheep producers in the state attend this sale. Everything we take is shown and sold so never return home. One year I had a ewe get her ear infected after putting in her scrapie tag for the sale and she was sifted out of the sale by the show vet for it. I sold her for $50 out of the back of the trailer (this was a $300 ewe) just so I wouldn't have to bring her home after she had been in the pens at the fairgrounds. It was worth it not to bring something nasty home and I did sell her to the people who bought my other ewes. Her ear healed up fine in a few days.
Any of you have barn cats and kittens around during ewe pregnancy? Ever had a problem with abortions in your ewes from toxoplasmosis the kittens can carry? We don't keep cats for this reason.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 08:58:27 AM
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Hi Jami - You are so right - if you do not consider your business plan first before ever bringing on the first animal you will be playing catch up. Sounds like you really have yours running smoothly - and again I never want someone to think that there is only one way - it just takes planning, marketing and a willing spirit.
As for cats, Great question. I only once had a barn cat and it was not by choice - he did not last too long because at that time we had a badger in the area and I assume he became dinner. I have read many studies about this issue and I felt I did not want the risk nor did I wish my ground to have cat poop - this is not good for organic practices. Also, I do not wish my chickens to have to be chases while they free range. My hens love to chase mice and voles so they do the job of a cat. Love to hear other folks ideas.
Terri love your blog site - and yes, I do give the warm molasses drink to my mothers after kidding. I must admit one very cold night while sitting in the barn awaiting a birth I had my tea kettle going and made myself a nice cup of warm molasses water - just what my tired body needed. No giggling now ladies at 2 in the morning it really was good.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2008 : 10:16:14 AM
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Jami, I know what you mean about docking tails and castrating. Buyer really dock you for leaving the animal intact but I am going to try to sell 5 intact ram lambs at a different sale in the next 2 weeks...they have buyers for different religions and nationalities there...hope I don't get docked abunch. I have had a vet assistant to castrate but this year I think I will band. I am glad to hear that you have no problems. I will also be banding the tails this year. I have usually lambed so late in the season that flies are too bad and can cause problems.
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl
11303 Posts
kristin
chickamauga
ga
USA
11303 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 5:33:03 PM
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I went to our local farmer's market here in Chatt. Sunday and met a few interesting ladies. One of them raises Cor.X sheep and sells wool and meat. Another lady was selling her crochet and knit items and also some yarn she had spun and dyed herself. I asked her if she gave lessons and she does! So I am calling her next week and am going to learn to spin and maybe weave and learn to knit again. I am so exited! I have wanted to learn but just could not find anyone here who is not so busy. And hopefully in the spring I will be buying a few ewe lambs to start a flock of my own again.
Kris
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Beverley
True Blue Farmgirl
2707 Posts
Beverley
atlanta
Michigan
USA
2707 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 6:28:59 PM
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Oh kristin how wonderful!!! That is so great to find a woman who is willing to teach you. I found a lady with an angora goat who is giving her to me. I am picking the doe up on sunday. I will send pictures. I am really excited. !!!
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl
11303 Posts
kristin
chickamauga
ga
USA
11303 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 8:07:55 PM
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That is great, Beverly. Can't wait to hear more about it.
Kris |
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Beverley
True Blue Farmgirl
2707 Posts
Beverley
atlanta
Michigan
USA
2707 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 8:45:56 PM
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I will take pictures and send them on monday... and when I go to pick her up I am spending the night at my sisters so we are having PJ party and my one girlfriend is coming too so should be a lot of fun!!!!
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
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oldfashioned girl
True Blue Farmgirl
2391 Posts
monica
oatman
az
USA
2391 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 8:59:51 PM
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Oh wow, it looks like I have a lot of reading to do to catch up!
Kristen, It will be great to have another spinner!
Beverley, I mailed out the spindles yesterday, so hopefully you will get them this week!
Luna, I need to card some more cotton and then I will get some out to you!
No word on Bam Bam so far! I offered to help any way I could!
Monica
farmgirls rule!
www.justducky48.etsy.com |
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Beverley
True Blue Farmgirl
2707 Posts
Beverley
atlanta
Michigan
USA
2707 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 9:42:07 PM
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Monica thank you so much let me know what you would like in return. I will let you know when they get here. I soo cool!!!!
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 07:04:24 AM
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To all my goat and sheep friends: Have a very Happy Thanksgiving! I pray that you are all surrounded by the ones you love (family, friends, sheep, goats, dogs, cats) and that the Good Lord blesses you with plenty of whatever you need!
God Bless
Sarita
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 07:43:35 AM
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How wonderful Beverly - I am excited for you and will be waiting to hear how it all goes. Enjoy, breath and do not expect perfection first time out - it is a continual learning process that we all are still working on.
I too want to wish everyone a peaceful Holiday Season and take time to PLAY - with both two and four legged family members. I am thankful to be included in a group of such loving, caring, giving and knowledgeable farmgals. Blessings to you and yours.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 08:21:27 AM
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Woo hoo, new Thanksgiving critters and not on the supper table either! Way to go Beverley!
Kris, great idea to find a mentor/buddy to get you started. You'll treasure her as a friend forever...I won't ever forget those who helped me get started and forever thankful. Of course, the gal who got me "hooked" on sheep...well that's another matter. I call her my "sheep dealer" as she got me addicted to a very expensive and time consuming (all consuming) endeavor! She and I laugh over that one all the time.
Speaking of being thankful, I sure am for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which is where you all fit into my life...ya'll make me happy to know you.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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Beverley
True Blue Farmgirl
2707 Posts
Beverley
atlanta
Michigan
USA
2707 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 09:06:42 AM
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I am so blessed to have found this site and so many wonderful people who like to share the same ideas and likes I do. Happy thanksgiving to you all.
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
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therealshari
True Blue Farmgirl
235 Posts
Shari
Beryl
UT
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 09:07:31 AM
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Sarita, don't let the stories you hear of being "price docked" for leaving rams intact. I tell the story of our little boys going to auction at Bid-a-bid-a-buy 85-86-87
If you've raised your animals with care, the buyers will recognize and reward you for your efforts.
Shari Thomas
From the "middle of nowhere" Beryl, Utah. Our farm is nearly complete with 3 horses, 6 ewes, a cow and heifer calf, 19 chickens, 5 dogs and four country gals. I blog about it at http://sharithomas.com |
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oldfashioned girl
True Blue Farmgirl
2391 Posts
monica
oatman
az
USA
2391 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 10:00:06 AM
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I just wanted to wish all of you a HAPPY THANKSGIVING! Hope you all have a wonderful day!!
Monica
farmgirls rule!
www.justducky48.etsy.com |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 10:03:43 PM
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Shari - I loved your story and can so relate to it. When we started with sheep we heard how nuts we where - we did not have the black faced sheep that everyone raised. Well, after our second year in the "Sheep Business" We had waiting lists for our sheep while all those "Good Old Boys" where dumping their sheep at slaughter auctions. While they where lucky to get pennies per pound for their wool I was getting $4.50 per ounce. Yes, we laughted all the way to the bank and did I say those same "Good Old Boys" came to my farm on the third year for my sheep seminar. That year also I was elected to the Fair Board - just goes to show you can do things differently and well. You Go Shari!!
I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving - with the house full of family and friends it was a full and wonderful day. I started my morning with slicing apples for all the goats, made scrambled eggs with ham for the Great Pry's and then started on the cooking for the two leggeds. Love to hear if you did anything special for your animals???
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 08:19:18 AM
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The dogs all got some turkey leftovers and the sheep/horses got their water heaters put into their troughs along with the apple scraps from the waldorf salad for dinner.
Shari, for some reason your blog page takes extremely long to load and I can't read the black writing against the blue background so I am missing out on the story. I'll try again. Sometimes our connection is slow.
Glad you had a great day Grace. We've been in a fog since yesterday so it's rather gloomy but it's time to pull the rams back out and put the ewes in together again so yet another "season" on the farm - watching and waiting now.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 6:45:53 PM
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Things were quiet here Thanksgiving Day. My daughter and her family in Nebraska came in yesterday and my son's family will be here tomorrow. I am looking for about 20 family and friends for dinner here tomorrow. I love to cook up big meals like I did every Sunday when all the kids were home. I just took out the homemade German Chocolate Cake to cool and ice. (with all the nuts and icing, it weighs in about 5 lbs.) Tomorrow night I will be out like a light with exhaustion after fixing dinner and entertaining. Have you noticed as you get older, your mind can think of more things to make and do than the body can do? My old body screams at me sometimes.
It started snowing and misting this afternoon and everything is white now and they are saying that the winds will kick up tonight and the temp drop even more...ready or not, here it comes!
I am glad you all have had a nice Thanksgiving. Aren't we blessed? We have so much to be thankful. Christmas will be quiet this year, the kids won't be here, just Danny, Angie, and I and the animals but we are not ever sad about that, we are just thankful for the time that they can share with us and try to make the most of it.
Shari thanks for the information. I will soon find out what the markets will do here.
Jami, I hope White Knight is getting his job done. I will take the rams out the first of January.
Grace, glad you had a great day, sounds like the animals did too.
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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oldfashioned girl
True Blue Farmgirl
2391 Posts
monica
oatman
az
USA
2391 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 6:48:53 PM
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Oh my gosh Grace, I couldn't resist clicking on your etsy link and sure enough, I love the soy silk! All of the colors are beautiful! I am going to have to hint to my hubby where to go for my Christmas/Anniversary present!!!!! I went to my friends shop to spin yarn on my wheel and I forgot the wool at home so I did some on my spindle and I took some spindles to sell! I had a little bit of interest, but the funny thing was I would have just as soon given them away if I could have gotten someone else into spinning!
Monica
farmgirls rule!
www.justducky48.etsy.com |
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therealshari
True Blue Farmgirl
235 Posts
Shari
Beryl
UT
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 8:21:29 PM
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Grace, thanks for the wonderful words. We didn't really set out to do anything different, it just happened that way. My roomies really don't have a plan, and I've had to scramble to make things have a "happy ending". We're getting there, and even though they sometimes think I have three heads,too... we do find consensus. You see, they're "city gals", actually a couple of retired cops from a resort island in the middle of Lake Erie.
They got their first lamb because a neighbor dropped off an orphan, introducing them to life on the desert. That was before I got here. Things have never been the same since.
Jami, my webhost has been experiencing "technical difficulties" since the server migration. They've had the "Dell folks" in the house and are working to get it all fixed. If you continue to have an issue, try clearing your cache. That should do the trick.
Shari Thomas
From the "middle of nowhere" Beryl, Utah. Our farm is nearly complete with 3 horses, 6 ewes, a cow and heifer calf, 19 chickens, 5 dogs and four country gals. I blog about it at http://sharithomas.com |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2008 : 08:13:25 AM
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Hi Ladies
Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving??? Sounds like you did.
Just as the family left late Thursday night the snow started and it finally stop last night at 11:30 pm. Sunday was very exciting - the first baby goat arrived at 2:30 pm in the very cold and snowy afternoon. I had to dig out the kidding panels from the snow drifts and spent the afternoon building pens and moving girls. You guessed it - we are about a month early - but when some of these girls arrived on this farm many, many, many years ago it was common to have our goat babies starting on Thanksgiving day. In fact the fist Thanksgiving we had here with family and friends included at baby goat sitting in the family room while we shared stories and memories of city life. The baby was born to my lead girl Eboney - a little boy and his is just perfect. I hope to get pictures and the rest of the story on my blog by tomorrow. He has a name but you will have to wait to read all about it on the blog.... What a tease I am!
Well, more to be thankful for here at the Funny Farm - heck it would be great to have all the babies before Christmas - I guess I really do not care I just want everyone to be healthly and happy.
Off to get some work done - Monica glad you got to spin some but do not lose hope you find folks in the strangest spots, heck look where you found me! Stay warm everyone I have 17 inches to stove off the decks this morning - Winter is here!
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Barnyard Buddies: All Things Sheep and Goats |
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All Things Sheep and Goats
