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Barnyard Buddies:  All Things Sheep and Goats  |
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Suzan
True Blue Farmgirl
659 Posts
suzanne
duncannon
pa
USA
659 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 06:00:57 AM
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| Grace, What is "VM"? |
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl
11303 Posts
kristin
chickamauga
ga
USA
11303 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 06:45:54 AM
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Jami, I Googled ACV for treating worms in ruminants last night. Got on a wab page and was there awhile looking up stuff. Not much info on animals but a great site with lots of info for humans in the Backhomemagazine site. Anyway, I got so lost in there and forgot what I was looking for.
So maybe you can find more info than I did there. I'm not sure how to go deeper into a site to see more things.
I always go by how big the doe is, not so much her age, to breed. And of course her health, too. I have had some big girls at only 9 months and also some scrawny, too. I just traded 2 little 9 month old Lamancha does and they were very little. The girl asked me when she'd be able to breed them and I said NOT til next year, they're way too small now.
Kris |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 07:05:52 AM
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Thanks Kris for looking. I know what you mean about getting lost linking away online...sometimes I find a bunch of great sites and think I'll remember them and then can't for the life of me even remember what they were about--gave up on bookmarking, have so many now. Must be that memory thing you talked about on another topic huh?
I'm going to do some research and also ask the ag vet college about ACV and any info they have on benefits versus risks. Might be a good topic for our sheep producer newsletter!
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 07:10:24 AM
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Sorry VM is Vegetable Matter...
I will also look today for my book on Apple Cider Vinegar information for animal management. I know it is in one of my books, just have tons to get loaded on my Etsy site and have a student on the farm today so I can not just leave her alone.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 12:00:45 PM
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I also use apple cider vinegar for my sheep. Does anyone use chopped garlic for sheep wormer? I buy the quart size jars and mix it with a feeding of chopped corn about every month to keep the worms down. I do not like to use the strong chemicals unless my sheep become endangered by worms and start to have loose stools and diarrhea. This summer has been so wet and the green grass is plentiful but I have noticed more worm problems and fed more garlic than I usually do.
I also have trouble with selenimum deficiency in our soil.
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 12:36:58 PM
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Sarita we have a real selenium deficiency problem also. I buy a great mineral supplement with 90 ppm and it seems to do the trick but always give the lambs a shot of Bo-Se at birth too and haven't had any issues. Washington State University is doing a great study in the effects of high and low level selenium deficiencies and how it affects the ewe flock and lambing, etc. They gave a talk at our recent convention on the research so far. It was great information. They bled a bunch of flocks around here to do the research so it was pertinent to our area.
Again, I wouldn't have gotten this information without being a part of a sheep producer association. Sure helps me!
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2008 : 6:19:13 PM
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Girls, do any of you use garlic to slow down the worms in sheep? I wonder if my feeding garlic has any benefits, but some people really believe in it. I do use different wormers 2-3 times a year.
I have had sheep sick and drenched them with apple cider vinegar and they have come out of it. The Sheep magazine has had some articles on using vinegar. I also put it in the water supply every month or so, especially if I have one get sick.
Jami, I buy an expensive mineral too so my sheep can get the selenium.
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 08:03:16 AM
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I have only used garlic in the youngest of my charges. It is a Garlic Brew 4 gloves garlic puree, 1/2 pint milk/water equal parts and 1 teaspoon honey. This is given when my bottle kids are going out on pasture for the first week. I have in past years given garlic to ewes who have had weight issues due to stress which can also leave them open to worm issues. There are several wonderful books out there on herbal management - my shelf is chaulked full of them and over the years I have settled on treatments that work for this farm.
Selenium is also a issue in Colorado - great minerals and getting additional hays from other locations can assist.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 08:55:53 AM
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I guess these non-traditional worm control methods are something I am going to have to read up on and begin some research on. One downside to being a part of a sheep industry group (based on traditional routes of sheep production) is that some of these things are thought of as being "hooey" and not cost-effective or proven enough for the larger sheep producer to try or give credence to. I am a more open-minded thinker and want to check these out. I let my Sheep! magazine subscription run out in lieu for The Shepherd Magazine. Thanks for all of the input girls. I really appreciate it! I always learn a lot from other producers.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 12:09:07 PM
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As I always tell my students - "Follow the Money" Our animal raising practices are based on the same issues we face with out own health care. Animals have been forced to live lives based on cost per animal - limited movement, manufactured feeds, shot scedules, growth hormones and horrible killing practices has made our meat supplies something I would never purchase nor would I raise my animals that way. I have been a large meat producer but did it all natural with having to lose a profit. We have bought into that with our own health, manufactured foods, lack of exercise and open space, shot schedules and too much medications that do not really assist in inproving our lives. When are we really going to look at "Where the Money Is"?
Large feed companies do not want us looking at other ways to feed our animals, Pharmaceutical companies sure do not want to lose their high profits and the management practices of large operations are anything but the best way.
I will get off my soap box but it is about time folks really start to look at why things are done the way they are - It is all about deep pockets and blindly following like dare I say "SHEEP"
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 1:09:18 PM
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Grace, I hear you and have the same feelings. What did our ancestors do to keep their flock healthy before the feed companies and the pharmaceutical companies? There are times that I want to use certain products that they offer but on as needed bases only.
Sarita
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 1:23:43 PM
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Sarita - I have the necessary emergency medications if one of my animals is criticaly ill but knock on wood, in seven years now I have not had to use any - when I first started I was always giving shots, drenchs, manufactured feed and the like, but then I started reading - not just books from this country, communicating with folks all over the world on how the raise the animals I had and really had my eyes opened. Since my switch 10 years ago I have found my animals are thriving and my survival rate has gone up. Now my animals and I are living much better. I too have cut out all those things that are prepackaged, altered, and mass produced. I never tell folks what to do with their animals I just know there are different ways to go about things and all I ask is to "Follow the Money". My new rant is in Chicken food - a research group found that most chicken food that is crumbles or pellets have cement an dirt in the mixture to keep the items together and the manuafactures cost down while they have increased the price over 50% in the last two years, see there is that money thing again. Next they are using more Milo in the feed even tho there is no value to the birds, most of all they are using the altered grains in their feed because the general population is still nervious about this type of food. So we are going to give that to an animal?? It is enough to drive someone nuts.
What is your take on giving altered grains to animals - an issue or do you think there is nothing wrong with that corn, oats and barley? Do you feel that they should have to label the feed if it is genetically altered?
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 07:44:53 AM
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My DH is the our feed specialist and reads up on the nutrition of our hay and has the testing done on it, etc. We don't feed processed feeds to our sheep or horses but we did our chickens. I asked him about GMO grain and he said he's not sure it's all that bad and that all grains we've been consuming over the past 40-50 years have been hybrids and what is the difference in breeding hybrids versus other "breeds" of grain? I don't know...I am real ignorant about it and you know, I am running low on time to do more research on yet one more thing. Don't you find all of this at times exhausting just to know if your food is consumable? I've been buying organic flours and such for us and our last 2 chickens just died so it's not an issue right now.
Thanks for your input on the non-traditional methods you've learned, Grace and Sarita. You always keep me thinking!
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 08:48:47 AM
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Grace, I too carried a syringe with me all the time when I first started my flock. I made trip after trip to the barn. I have changed my methods along the way. First of all, I know a sound animal now and only breed the healthy sound ewes to good healthy and sound rams. The sheep that have health problems are not kept. I also mix my own feed. Our flock grazes on grass most of the year. I watch the manure also. I also watch the sheep's actions. I am in their pen or lots every day and if one is acting droopy, I continue to watch them closely and treat as needed.
I too have continuing concerns of the genetically altered seeds and the effects on the human food supply. With the genetically engineered soybeans especially, with over 60% of processed consumer food products containing soy. Needless to say the effects that they are having on the environment. The altered seeds are everywhere here in the U.S., corn, alfafa, soybeans, etc. but many other countries are not importing our products now because of their concerns...should we perhaps back up and do more studies that are not paid for by the large seed and chemical companies to get the true data needed. Also we have to look at how these Terminator seeds will affect the non-genetically altered seed supply. The pollen from some of these new seeds can affect the neighbors traditional plants and cause their seeds to be sterile. Besides the fact that I don't like it when I can not grow my own crops and keep the seeds if I choose but have to purchase the seeds from some large company that can have control of our food supply.
I am also opposed to the other things such as the cement, dead animals, manure, put into the feed and fed to the meat producing animals that is put on the grocery store shelf. Little lone all the growth hormones, antibiotics, medicated feeds fed to the animals and then fed to humans like we will not suffer in the long run. Sorry....being a nurse and for years as a hospice nurse, I can really get on my soap box!!! Shut ME UP!!!
Saying too much
Sarita in Mo.
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 10:35:25 AM
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I like seeing what you have to say, Sarita. Please don't be quiet. I agree that a natural diet is best for any animal, meaning what they would find in nature if "wild", even though sheep are a domesticated species. That said, sheep are foragers and like stuff besides just grass..they love all sorts of other plants too if given the chance. My ewes love our willows growing wild by the ditch banks and wild roses and sweet william, though my vet said to be careful about that as it contains a blood thinning agent similar to Coumadin (in the natural state)...our ewes love that nasty little weed morning glory too...gosh I love that eat it up.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 11:11:57 AM
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Jami, my shetlands are browers too. They will eat weeds that I can't get killed out. If they get in the fruit trees...I am in trouble. I have one ewe, Lizzy and her darling little Isabel that can get out of a mouse hole to get to the yarn. I think the neighbors thought that I had little sheep lawn ornaments last summer. They loved my roses and lavendar. I would just walk out and ask Liz what she was doing and she would come baaing and follow me back to her gate to go back with the other sheep. She never offered to get into the garden but she loves the orchard.
Sarita
Nice day in Mo.
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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Beverley
True Blue Farmgirl
2707 Posts
Beverley
atlanta
Michigan
USA
2707 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 3:38:35 PM
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Oh grace I agree with you whole heartedly about everything you have said so far. it bothers me that our society as a whole follows along like sheep and can't make their own decisions about much of anything especially about what we eat. They don't want to take the time to look into where there food comes from. I keep telling people that I run into they they are going to be sorry if we don't as a society stand up and say what we feel and actually check stuff out but I have found most people just figure I am spouting my mouth and go right on doing what they always have,let other people make their decisions for them. It is easier that way. But it does come down to the greedy little dollar of companies. that is the bottom line. I guess I should get off my soap box too.
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 4:46:22 PM
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Hi Beverley, Sarita and Jami
It is hard to say what to do but I agree with Sarita about the seed issue - there is wonderful sites to catch up on the "Problem" with those genetically altered seeds.. I have stacks of reports, articles and books about this subject and it is important that we understand how those seeds are killing other plants, forests, and will effect the humans who consume them. I am a member of the Seed Saver Society and try to show folks a way that will work with our planet not against it. Your right sheep, goats, llamas, alpacas are all who love to go around about for their food. It is us who keep them in fences so it is up to use to give them the best and a variety. If I hunt for the best for me I sure will do the same for my four legged charges. The problem today is if we get on our soap box we are considered pushy, not doing what the big guys do, nutters, and a whole bunch of other names. I think it is funny that those of us who ate naturally thirty years ago where considered nutters and now it is all the rage.. Could that possible be the same when we are talking about our animals now. When I sold organic lambs, folks around here thought I was a nutter, but I had a waiting list for my lambs - can you think of that with the normal way of raising them? Too bad my soap box is so heavy after all the work I did outside today I will have to leave it sit where it is - maybe tomorrow I will have the strength...
Here is my next question - do you allow folks in with your animals? Do you have a protocal about covering guests feet, or limiting where they can roam?
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Beverley
True Blue Farmgirl
2707 Posts
Beverley
atlanta
Michigan
USA
2707 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 5:42:15 PM
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I don't have a lot of guests at this time so that is a hard one for me to answer and I only have a few goats and chickens at this time too so my farm is very small. I was asking questions about sheep because I want to get some in the spring. I do however bring my animals out for people to see but very rarely are people in with them. I also have raised dogs and I was very fussy about who touched the babies and never let them be held until after their first shots and so forth so I was very picky then. But I can see where it would be a problem and I for one would ask that they cover their shoes if I had a much bigger operation and had more guests. I do not have a problem with that at all. you just never know what that could have on their shoes from where ever they have been. I would think it would be a very good practice.
Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog....Charles F. Doran
beverley baggett Beverley with an extra E...
http://bevsdoggies.googlepages.com/ |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 7:23:47 PM
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I got my new Mary Jane's Magazine last Saturday and just glanced through it and saw the carmel recipe...tried them tonight...wonderful but anyway....I started reading the articles tonight and there is a wonderful article on GM foods and the study of one high school. What we started talking about today.
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 7:36:20 PM
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I myself change into my chore clothes and shoes before going in with the sheep. I do not have anyone but my daughters and granddaughter in with the sheep. They also get out of their "town" clothes and put on their chore clothes before going in with the sheep.
Since the human traffic is minimal...my most greatest fears are the wild deer that I have found in the nearby lots. They can carry diseases and worms. To keep them out, I would have to build 10 foot tall fences and I can't and won't do that. Do you have that problem?
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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oldfashioned girl
True Blue Farmgirl
2391 Posts
monica
oatman
az
USA
2391 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 7:47:17 PM
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Sarita, I am jealous! I keep checking for the new issue at the market and no luck so far! Please don't stop talking! You are not saying too much at all! It's so scary to think of what is in our food!
Monica
farmgirls rule!
www.justducky48.etsy.com |
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 8:25:47 PM
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Grace, I know what you mean about being called a nutter and odd person and etc. I have saved seeds for years because that is how I was raised. We always put back the seeds from the best melons, tomatoes, beans, etc. for next year's crop...never the small and poor looking fruits, you know...you reap what you sow. Some people have told me that I was born in the wrong era but I try to explain that we all need to know how to survive if this economy shuts down, we all need to eat food that is clean and healthy for us and to my notion, chemicals and unnatural foods are not healthy. I mentioned the article in Mary jane's new magazine in my last post, please read it, it is fascinating about the study with the mice.
Ladys, we can't change the world by preaching but we can change ourselves and change will start to take place, one person at a time, one day at a time. As for me, I still love wild greens picked from along the creek, cooked up with a piece of bacon, served with apple cider vinegar with a piece of corn bread and a bowl of brown beans. I love the peace and joy in my heart when a new baby lamb is born or a soft and gentle spring rain falls followed by a rainbow, or the wool flowing through my fingers to the spool as I spin or the two pieces of wood that taps together in a rhythm as I knit. I know you all have those moments, I read the post and see so many trying to jump off the fast train....one person at a time!
Grace I am with you "follow the money" if we all ask more questions, buy foods that we know are safe and healthy for our families...money will speak louder than words. Farmers are already experiencing other countries that will not take our exports of genetically altered foods and some of them are changing back to the regular seeds. So what happens to those grains that can't be exported...you and I both know.
Just an old country gal living in the past!
Sarita
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl
2804 Posts
grace
larkspur
colorado
USA
2804 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 06:02:42 AM
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Monica - did BamBam get found? Have been thinking about him..
As for why I asked the question - One issue that is very important about being organic is keeping contaminates down. One of the reasons I have had to limit access to the farm is becuase folks would not keep to the rules. Having a shop on the farm opened me up to a bunch of folks who thought I was here for their entertainment. I have signs posted everywhere about not going into the pastures and also notices about the dogs - over 12 years all I have done is chase folks down and try to get them to follow the rules. Then there is the issue of folks not adhereing to posted hours. We have even had folks come to our front door on Christmas and tell me could they look around because they had a couple of hours to kill before the go to relatives for dinner. When I asked them "What do you think we are doing today - with a house full of guests" The couple got huffy and walked off saying "Well, she sure does not know how to run a business". Is it because if the name of the farm that I get all the nutters??? Do folks believe we are all petting zoo's? Even after 12 years I can not get the feed company to honor not goning into places that are posted closed - now I have to stand their with them like they are little kids... Any suggestions to get folks to follow the rules?
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl
925 Posts
Sarita
Battle Creek
Michigan
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 06:58:13 AM
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Grace, people can be so rude and inconsiderate. Christmas Day! Where is people's common sense? How do you ever get anything done on the farm? Working with the public is very difficult.
hang in there!
Sarita
www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com
The people who make a difference in your life are NOT the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones who care. |
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Barnyard Buddies: All Things Sheep and Goats |
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All Things Sheep and Goats
