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Keeping in Touch:  The Animals we eat  |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 21 2008 : 3:36:48 PM
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Elise, thanks so much for your post. I'm sure it took a lot of courage to put it out here and I'm thankful that you did. Making informed decisions is a big thing to me and that goes both ways. There are always to sides to every coin and a person needs to look at each side before making up their mind on an issue. I didn't read the article yet because I wanted to get this post out here to let you know how much I appreciate your sharing this information with us. Like Rene, I'm fine with people deciding a different course of action than mine (as long as it's an educated decision  ). I have groceries to get in the frig but I promise to read the article after I get that done. Now I have something to think about while I'm doing it!
God bless -
Karen ~ Chickherder & Farmgirl Sister #311 |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2008 : 4:21:32 PM
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Elsie:
The horse slaughter bill/now law is a crying shame. Here in our state there are horses being dropped off all over because of high feed prices and nowhere to take an old horse. At the auction yards, people are "consigning" horses to sell and many are not selling (again, feed prices) and those consignors are just driving off and leaving those horses tied to the sale yard fences and not looking back! The sale yards have started charging an upfront $50 fee to sell a horse through them. It's really sad. I love horses and always have since I was a kid and we have 4 of our own, but I sure think banning horse slaughter was not good when folks are letting them starve all over the place because they have nowhere to take old horses and ones they can't afford to keep or sell.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
Edited by - Jami on Oct 21 2008 4:22:08 PM |
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deeredawn
True Blue Farmgirl
2306 Posts
Dawn
Cordova
TN
USA
2306 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 04:47:51 AM
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Okay, I am gonna come in here on the chicken thing since I have experience there. I think at the hatchery that i work at we handle chickens as humanely as possible. PArent stock is kept in large (huge) grow houses (or barns) using a deep litter method so that the smell and poop factor is kept down. Statistcs show that you will have twice as many roos (cockerals) born as you would pullets so we are faced weekly with an over abundance of unsold roos. We DO NOT kill off the overstock like many hatcheries do. A lot of them stick them in a large garbage can and suffocate them. We take our to auction and sell them for fryer birds.
The parent stock is healthy and checked by vets regualry. All the chicks that we sell are inspected thoroughly and sorted. We ship them out the same day they hatch. As far as eggs go I researched it. Acccording to the Dept of Ag here in Ohio one is allowed to sell driveway eggs as long as they meet this criteria. Does everyone do this? Probably not. I do. Eggs must be clean and free of debris. Eggs must be in a plain carton marked in 1/2" letters the name of where you bought them, thatfact that they are UNGRADED AND UNCLASSIFIED. Anyone with 200+ chickens must comply with stricter laws. I'd write more on this but I have to go... As far as inspection goes, I do a lot of that myself. At first its painstaking but as you learn it better its pretty thorough.
Dawn #279
MJ's Heirloom Mavens/Mother Hen
www.heirloommavens.blogspot.com
www.harvestthymefarm.blogspot.com
www.gypsycowgirlcreations.blogspot.com
"I figure if a girl wants to be a legend, she should go ahead and be one!"...Calamity Jane |
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ranchmama
True Blue Farmgirl
360 Posts
Elise
Rosebud
MT
USA
360 Posts |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 07:27:56 AM
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Thanks for sharing your knowledge on chickens Dawn. The egg thing is interesting, so the state just leaves it up to the farmer to decide his standards within their guidelines. It's like you're living in a different world than I am in regards to that issue--I live in a very liberal, gotta protect everyone from everything state...God love 'em, they have good intentions but they just go overboard on everything to complete extremes of "safety." Can't even let my dog ride in the back of my pickup anymore without constraints.
Well, as we've said, there is a need for a safe food supply first and foremost so I guess these voters are going to have to decide how they plan to "have it all" (safe food, humanely raised food, free range food, moving to all organic food, etc.) and still maintain health standards and the level of production to keep the grocery store shelves full. I'm glad you work at a place you feel good about their management practices. That's important. I do think there might be some compromise met on some of these issues but in the end, the market-driven approach has always been better than legislation mandated by someone who doesn't know farming. I say let the consumer decide what they want to buy and the farmer will produce it. I've seen organic and free-range/cage-free eggs sales soar in our local stores..even though they are about double the price of regular eggs. I buy them. I like the deep colored yolks. My last 2 hens are not laying enough to keep us in eggs. Anyhow, never saw them in some stores before and now they all have the cage-free eggs and people are buying them at a higher price so that is what I mean by market-driven...the consumer is wanting them/buying them so the farmer is producing them and stores are stocking them....full circle. No law was passed to get this done.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 07:52:40 AM
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Elise, I'm so glad you posted today. I was thinking this morning that I need to post again and tell you to keep the comments coming. I want to be an informed consumer, meaning I want to know the real story on both sides. So keep posting, farmgirl, you have an audience that's willing and ready to learn.
Jami, I totally agree with you on the market-driven statement. One of our local grocery stores went from one small section in produce to a sizeable part of it with an additional two aisles of non-produce organic items. It even has it's own small frozen food section. There's a lot of power in grassroots movements. The statement that "what would we do if we didn't sell what we're selling now?" doesn't get much sympathy from me. They'd change what they're selling and still make money - businesses give the people what they want. We have to quit letting them tell us what we want.
Stepping down from soapbox now.
Dawn, so glad to hear that your hatchery auctions off the overabundance. It sounds like a good place.
God bless -
Karen ~ Chickherder & Farmgirl Sister #311 |
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ruralfarmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
4309 Posts
Rene'
Prosser
WA
USA
4309 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 07:59:29 AM
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Elise,
Haha :) Yep no jumping here.... We love to hear all the sides of the issues it helps us to make more informed choices, so keep it coming :)
Rene~Prosser Farmgirl #185
http://farmchicksfarm.blogspot.com/
Mavens are "information specialists", or "people we rely upon to connect us with new information."[6] They accumulate knowledge, especially about the marketplace, and know how to share it with others
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deeredawn
True Blue Farmgirl
2306 Posts
Dawn
Cordova
TN
USA
2306 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 08:12:04 AM
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Well as far as happy with the hatchery..... I'm okay with it. As far as how the chicks are taken care of.... that makes me feel good. I dont know about a different world here in Ohio but I know that we have a long way to go. We have virtually nowhere to go for local or organic food. All the farmers around here feed gm grain to their stock, if I say ANYTHING about wanting grass fed beef, I get looked at like I'm growing antennae outta my head.... as far as purchasing organic ANYTHING I would have to travel a minimum of 1 1/2 hours away. People (farmers) around here just dont care.... its the profit that defines the crop. I too am a little torn becasue I personally believe in and dmeand better grown/raised food, but I also understand making a living. Let me explain before ya'll start screaming at me. I own a pumpkin farm. I ould say 97% of my market is for decorating/carving etc. I am torn between purchasing heirloom or non gm seed as a larger decorative crop would mean more money in my pocket. HOWEVER. as far as my veggie and foods go..... no gmo for me or my customers. Okay, I'm ready to walk the plank now....into the circling of sharks I go....
Dawn #279
MJ's Heirloom Mavens/Mother Hen
www.heirloommavens.blogspot.com
www.harvestthymefarm.blogspot.com
www.gypsycowgirlcreations.blogspot.com
"I figure if a girl wants to be a legend, she should go ahead and be one!"...Calamity Jane |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 08:12:38 AM
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For sure, Elise (sorry on the Elsie..that was a typo). I appreciate a good discussion hearing all "sides."
Karen, here too, the cookie aisle has tons of organic stuff now I have noticed. I'm always in the cookie aisle  !!
There is a lot of talk in congress right now about labeling meat and chicken - mainly for raising practices and handling practices. They are trying to determine a standard for each thing, i.e., free range, cage-free, etc. as well as what "natural" means.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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deeredawn
True Blue Farmgirl
2306 Posts
Dawn
Cordova
TN
USA
2306 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 08:29:54 AM
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Jami: I think natual is defined as no artificial coloring, taste or preservatives. It can be grown with fertilizers/chemicals as long as the end product maintains it natural appearance. Not much clarity there huh? I sure hope that someone in Congress steps up to the plate regarding this.
Dawn #279
MJ's Heirloom Mavens/Mother Hen
www.heirloommavens.blogspot.com
www.harvestthymefarm.blogspot.com
www.gypsycowgirlcreations.blogspot.com
"I figure if a girl wants to be a legend, she should go ahead and be one!"...Calamity Jane |
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ranchmama
True Blue Farmgirl
360 Posts
Elise
Rosebud
MT
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 08:35:30 AM
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lol thanks again girls! But I don't know what else to say! haha I've had lots of coffee this morning and been sitting too long to think!
I'll think up something more today, promise! I gotta get going and then get outside. Hubby just called and wants us to go up country and check salt... so I'll have lots of time to think ;)
later
Elise
Every Child Deserves Our Love &
A Bear of Their Own
http://ATeddyForKeeps.org
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ranchmama/ |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 08:51:49 AM
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Dawn, you're right that natural can be lots of things. What I was told when we wanted to produce Natural Lamb was that the Natural was defined by each farmer on the label--you just specified your management practices that sounded "good" and "natural". I cannot remember the specific requirements now (no hormones was one I remember but this was a few years ago...oh my feeble brain) but it was very loose. I didn't want to go organic with our lamb because I can't stand not worming my sheep when they need it.
This legislation is putting a burden on the processor however. Keeping track of what they buy from farmers and how they are raised and then labeling it so for the consumer is costly. I am not sure how this is going to go.
County of Origin Labeling (COOL)for fresh meat is now in effect as of Sept. I don't buy much meat in the store because we grow a lot of our own or buy from the fair kids but I wonder how that's going? I am going to take a look in the meat dept next time I go to the store. All of these new requirement costs will be passed onto the consumer by the packer.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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ranchmama
True Blue Farmgirl
360 Posts
Elise
Rosebud
MT
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 09:01:51 AM
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Our ranch is run natural That means that we don't give growth hormones and meds. There are shots we still give at branding and weaning. But they are required.. not sure what they are... Black leg?? I'll have to ask the cowboy.. aka hubby..
The ranch we work for runs 4500 pairs between 4 differnt ranches. We also have our own feedlot, which will have almost 17,000 head over the course of the winter. When they get too big for us here, around 8 or 900 lbs, they go to Colorado to another feedlot that our boss is partners with. All of the calves that he buys are natural too. If any shots are given they are pulled fromthe program and sold as reg. beef. I believe our biggest and maybe only buyer is Coleman Meats. The sell and produce all natural meat, puoltry and pork as well.
The COOL right now is a joke. Last I heard the labels could say for example... that is was raised in Japan, shipped to Mexico to grow out then slaughtered in the US. That doesn't help the buyer who wants only US meat. I don't want my MT born, raised and slaughtered beef to have that label.
Well, more later. The Cowboy just pulled in. Gotta run.
Elise
Every Child Deserves Our Love &
A Bear of Their Own
http://ATeddyForKeeps.org
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ranchmama/ |
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5 acre Farmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1007 Posts
~~~*Terri*~~~
WA.
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2008 : 09:03:37 AM
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Elise,,Thank- you for being brave enough to post,,,Tis good we all have our own views....We have raised all that ya'll have posted about, and feel both sides,,,,have done both sides, and now have no animals...So we can view both sides...Keep up the good work we all strive for as "True Blue Farmgirls"....
Farmgirl Sister #368
http://froccsfrillsfurbiloesandmore.blogspot.com
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deeredawn
True Blue Farmgirl
2306 Posts
Dawn
Cordova
TN
USA
2306 Posts |
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LivingWell4You
True Blue Farmgirl
1411 Posts
Karen
Hillsboro
MO
USA
1411 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2008 : 06:00:15 AM
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Dawn, thought of you when I was at Whole Foods this week. They had some really nice looking organic pumpkins available for carving. Maybe you could sell organic and/or heirloom with value added - maybe include directions for hollowing out the pumpkin and a few recipes.........or make a DVD of you doing this..........have some pumpkin cupcakes or cookies available or roasted pumpkin seeds........I have a muffin recipe that uses pumpkin seeds sprinkled on top I'll post in MJ's Heirloom Mavens henhouse.
God bless -
Karen ~ Chickherder & Farmgirl Sister #311
P.S. I just saw that Aunt Jenny has a recipe for Pumpkin Spice cookies in the Farm Kitchen thread. |
Edited by - LivingWell4You on Oct 25 2008 08:13:06 AM |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2008 : 09:23:42 AM
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Here's an interesting email I received connecting people with local food supplies. This is the kind of stuff that is becoming more available to those desiring local foods in our state. Renee, thought you might be interested in it?
Please RSVP and address inquiries to Joan Qazi, EAT via email (jqazi@nwi.net) or Michel Wiman, WSU Small Farms Program: 509-663-8181 x 235.
2nd Annual North Central Washington
Farm-to-Table Workshop
Connecting Local Farmers with Local Buyers
Monday, November 17, 2008
9:00 am to 3:00 pm
Doors open at 8:00 am for Registration
Wenatchee Community Center
504 S. Chelan Avenue, Wenatchee, WA 98801
Colleen Donovan | Program Manager
Heifer International | USA Country Program | Pacific NW Region
PO Box 739 | Ellensburg WA 98926
T: 509-925-7350 or 800-481-9507 | F: 509-925-7359
colleen.donovan@heifer.org | www.heifer.org
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2008 : 09:50:45 AM
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Elise, I agree that COOL isn't conveying to the consumer everything they need to know, but it's a start towards showing an All-USA meat product versus an world traveled animal. If I saw 3 countries on a label, I sure wouldn't buy it even if the last country listed is USA. Of course, I'm real biased towards promoting USA products so that's just me.
I know lamb is being brought over from Australia/NZ in container ships as fresh carcasses (not frozen) in special packing that keeps the meat "fresh" for 3 weeks, cut and wrapped here and called US lamb because of the fact it was processed here...that kind of stuff will now be evident through COOL labeling. We don't produce enough domestic lamb to feed the American consumer so importing is necessary but I for one will only eat American lamb (or any meat for that matter) so I like that this sort of stuff will now be evident to the consumer. Do you feel the COOL labeling will help in this way? Or that most consumers aren't going to notice? I am curious why you feel it's a joke..just for the sake of the discussion. Appreciate your feedback.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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ranchmama
True Blue Farmgirl
360 Posts
Elise
Rosebud
MT
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2008 : 11:12:11 AM
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Jami, I just meant that it is a joke right now.. the way the labels are set up to include many different countries and the US then claim that it is US meat. Sorry for the confusion. Like your example of the lamb from Austraiia/NZ. There needs to be some sort of monitering. I read that Tyson meats is for the Lumping Label, I'll call it, where all the countries are 'lumped' together, just because it saves them money. That's not the point of the label. If I bought meat at the store, I would also only by US meat, I want to support the US made products. We eat our own beef, so I just buy chicken and pork. I don't want to read a label saying it could be all those other countries AND the US. And my FIL works for Tyson, so lol
I am for the COOL label as long as it is done right. The listing of the country(s) the animal came from. I would hope that people would notice! I'm sure most people do with all the recalls both food and toys, last year. I would think that everyone checks the food they buy, but I know that isn't true. I like to look where things have come from. Like sugar.. I live in a state that grows sugar beets. Where does that sugar from the beets go? Does our white granulated sugar only come from sugar cane? I don't know?! Also flour. MT grows a lot of wheat. I would like to buy MT wheat. Help out my neighbor, you know?!
Every Child Deserves Our Love &
A Bear of Their Own
http://ATeddyForKeeps.org
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ranchmama/ |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 07:43:44 AM
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Thanks for the input, Elise. I agree with you on supporting our regional economies through our purchases of food. My impression was that the countries had to be listed, but maybe that isn't the case. You would think the specifics of it would have been mapped out by now and still not in the "tweaking" stage--cart in front of the horse?
In the instance of that lamb I was talking about, when the label from the American lamb company was on it, it was assumed it's American Lamb ...now it will have to say it's not. I was thinking this is progress but you're right, not if it's not done right.
I guess with any new government mandate there is going to be growing pains and this is probably a fine example especially when you get the big companies like Tyson involved. They have a lot of pulling power (money) to sway things.
If I understand you right, you want it to be specific and concise and give the consumer the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I agree.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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graciegreeneyes
True Blue Farmgirl
3107 Posts
Amy Grace
Rosalia
WA
USA
3107 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 08:31:24 AM
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I work in a grocery store and from what the Meat dept manager told me and from what I heard on NPR, the regulations for the COOL are not nearly as straightforward as they sound. Somewhat like the Organic labeling that the USDA undertook a few years ago. What I understood from our meat guy (and mind you he could have completely misunderstood, highly possible) was that the only reason we have to label meat with COOL is because we also sell produce. Even if he did misunderstand, there is enough wiggle room in the rules for misunderstanding.
Also, having worked in organics for years, I can tell you that since Natural can mean anything a producer/packager/etc. wants it to, it doesn't really mean anything at all. There are plenty of people with integrity, small growers, who would use that label as you would think, but since almost all of the "natural" foods brands are owned by large corporations now, they will use whatever marketing they think will sell the most product. It is unfortunate but it just goes back to knowing the people who are producing your food and the level of trust you have with them.
Jami - I would be interested in buying lamb from you next year, what time of year should I check with you? I wouldn't mind driving over to E-burg either, my husband loves to fish the Yakima and I could always use an excuse to get out of town, maybe check out the new fabric store you were talking about.
Cheers to all!!
Amy gRace
Farmgirl #224
"use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without" |
Edited by - graciegreeneyes on Oct 26 2008 08:32:49 AM |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 11:10:47 AM
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We've got our annual sheep producers (Washington) convention this coming week in Pullman. Quite a few ag gov't agencies will be there. I'm sure going to ask about how we go about getting this COOL thing "right"...reflect on the label where the product has been and originated...I mean County Of Origin Labeling is the whole idea behind it, right?
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/ |
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ranchmama
True Blue Farmgirl
360 Posts
Elise
Rosebud
MT
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 12:38:21 PM
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Yes Jami, it is! And I hope you find some answers! I think I also heard on the radio news that the gov't or USDA is going back to try to work the label specs out right. And I think that they have a few years to strighten it out. To get the labels right and all. I really don't know a whole lot about this. I really need to pay more attention and find out what is going on.
Every Child Deserves Our Love &
A Bear of Their Own
http://ATeddyForKeeps.org
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ranchmama/ |
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl
1238 Posts
Jami
Ellensburg
WA
USA
1238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 11:53:12 AM
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Girls, is COOL a hot topic! I just got back from the sheep convention and you are not gonna believe this one. The meat promotion industries were all for COOL when it started at inception....that USA label of origin would sell more of their products and this is market-driven stuff = consumer wanted it. So they pushed for it and it passes.
So, guess what now? The big packers, yes, just like Elise mentioned earlier, Tyson being one of them, but lots more too...do not want to mess with just a USA origin label because of "paperwork". Grant you, this is a paper trail the way they have set it up. They want to say Originated in North America. That means it can be a product of 3 countries, Canada, USA or Mexico. This is also because they are bringing cattle in to harvest at their plants from at least Canada, not sure on Mexico, so do the math on that one. Well, I got big burrs under my saddle over this topic considering we are spending check-off dollars to promote American lamb and the consumer should be able to find it in the store meat case...not just North American lamb. So, that is where COOL is for now, 6-month period started Sept 26th (??) and this is a trial period until March and a tweaking time. Right now, producers must sign an affidavit when selling any meat lambs to 4-H kids, FFA kids (youth projects), packers stating the "said" lambs being sold are originated in the USA. Not for custom slaughter animals sold whole going to one person. Pretty much each packer is asking for different information on these affidavits, there is no common form yet for it. It's a work in progress, that's for sure.
Jami in WA
Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com |
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ranchmama
True Blue Farmgirl
360 Posts
Elise
Rosebud
MT
USA
360 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 09:38:04 AM
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Wow, forgot about this post a little bit. Glad you got your info Jami. It does need some work doesn't it? COOL I mean. It will be a good thing when It does get sorted out.
I wanted to bring the PROP 2 baack up. We just got our livestock paper and it says that he ruling passed and what CA can expect in the next 5 years when the changes become mandetory. Also last weeks issue says that JBS swift will comply with COOL, so that's another big packer that will cooperate. One of thier buyers can to a seminar our boss but on last Jan. He spoke more about the natural beef program than anything. COOL wasn't the hot topic of the night that night! lol Tyson and Cargill are agreeing to COOL now too.
But back to the Prop 2.. here is a link to the article..
http://npaper-wehaa.com/wlj#c-97986
I'm wondering how the vote has affected the area now? In the article it says that the Humane Society of the US did some bad politicing and lies and what not. The vote passed by a reallly large margin and now CA is wondering where their eggs will come from. Taken from the article.. One man said...
"" Ryan Armstrong, vice president of Armstrong Egg Farms in southern California. “For 60 years, my family has been strongly committed to farming responsibly and caring for our hens. Even if we could afford to follow this law, we wouldn’t want to stay in business due to the dangers to hen welfare and public health that this initiative causes.” ""
any thoughts??
Elise
Every Child Deserves Our Love &
A Bear of Their Own
http://ATeddyForKeeps.org
http://ranchmama.blogspot.com/ |
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Keeping in Touch: The Animals we eat |
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The Animals we eat
