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Across the Fence:  The Bailout Bill  |
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Miss Bee Haven
True Blue Farmgirl
4331 Posts
Janice
Louisville/Irvington
Kentucky
USA
4331 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 11:45:07 AM
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My dh just called and said the House just defeated the bailout bill. Now what? I think he said stocks are dropping. This is very scary.
Farmgirl Sister #50
"If you think you've got it nailed down, then what's all that around it?"
'Br.Dave Gardner' |
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kmbrown
True Blue Farmgirl
459 Posts
Misty
Waynesboro
Pennsylvania
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 11:55:18 AM
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Yes they defeated it...but think about it....would it help for the long haul or just prolong the inevitable?
Things are very scary right now. I look at my children and just want to cry sometimes...just thinking of the things we may be facing. |
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New England
True Blue Farmgirl
65 Posts
Hannah
Hardyville
ky
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 11:57:54 AM
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HI JANICE, THIS IS HANNAH. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO CONTACT YOU FOR WEEKS, YOUR MAIL COMES BACK! HANNAH
food for thought..."A BROKEN CLOCK IS RIGHT TWICE A DAY"
BE SURE TO VISIT OUR WEBBSITE:
http://www.picturetrail.com/hannahsfriends |
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fionalovesshrek
True Blue Farmgirl
186 Posts
Paige
kinston
North Carolina
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 12:13:05 PM
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It seems the big concern is the credit freeze, and that people won't get loans. I am already in debt up to my earballs, and don't think we should put our kids in debt so that some one else can be in debt. The 700 billion gets paid by our tax dollars, and our kids tax dollars, and so on and so on, to free up the banks to loan more money out. Can't we just suck it up for awhile, work hard, pay with cash and NOT feed the golden calf any longer? How about a TAX freeze, stop taxing, everything. That would give us more money so we wouldn't need loans. But then the gov would have to not get paid and they are in it for money among other things right?
eesh,
P~
www.fionaswampington.blogspot.com
http://homespunhensfarmgirlchapter.blogspot.com/
Man, despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication, and his many accomplishments, owes his existence to a six inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains. |
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kmbrown
True Blue Farmgirl
459 Posts
Misty
Waynesboro
Pennsylvania
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 12:15:12 PM
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| Great idea Paige. You said it. I still haven't figured out how we as a nation are in debt yet we are going to "bail ourselves out"? Its just on paper...it doesn't mean a thing |
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Betty J.
True Blue Farmgirl
1403 Posts
Betty
Pasco
WA
USA
1403 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 12:19:09 PM
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Misty, I think you just made an oxymoron. "We as a nation are in debt yet we are going to "bail ourselves out"? Its just on paper...it doesn't mean a thing." Doesn't the government want us to retire on our own money? Think about it--"Pay yourself first!" and that's just what the government is doing. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH.
Betty in Pasco |
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fionalovesshrek
True Blue Farmgirl
186 Posts
Paige
kinston
North Carolina
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 12:21:39 PM
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It's monopoly money if it goes through. We print up more to help the banks out, give them a clean slate basically as it would buy out all their negative (in the red) debt. Other country's would then NOT take our dollar seriously, we'd have bills not worth the paper they're printed on and likely get put on the Euro. Sound creepy? I think so too. Hey I'd be happy if someone came along and said "your debts are forgiven you". Maybe THAT bill would pass, bailout the little people not the big/un's and just let US start from scratch. But being the consumers that we are it wouldn't take long for us to dig ourselves another goldplated hole to jump in to.
It all boils down to selfishness, greed, lust for more stuff, and stupidity. All around, we're all guilty of that I think.
P~
www.fionaswampington.blogspot.com
http://homespunhensfarmgirlchapter.blogspot.com/
Man, despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication, and his many accomplishments, owes his existence to a six inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains. |
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Montrose Girl
Farmgirl Legend/Schoolmarm
1360 Posts
Laurie
Montrose
CO
1360 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 12:35:45 PM
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Ijust got this email from a firend. I laughed and thought how perfect.
This idea sounds just crazy enough to possibly work, so naturally it won't be given serious consideration. How great is our bureaucracy!!
Instead of the bailout, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend. (much less than the $700 billion for the bailout)
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or els
Best Growing |
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Mumof3
True Blue Farmgirl
3890 Posts
Karin
Ellenwood
GA
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 12:39:00 PM
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Paige- I agree with you. We, as a society, are guilty. Some of us do understand the responsibility and follow the tenet of "living within your means" and others need to be compelled into doing it. Maybe this downturn is a good thing in a way. It will give people a chance to reevaluate their priorities and to focus more on home and family rather than stuff. We have certainly changed how we spend our money, not that we were really out of control, but we only spend on what we really need, not just want. Now if we could just get the government to follow suit.....:)
Karin
Farmgirl Sister
# 18 :)
www.perfectlittlemiracle.blogspot.com
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miss wilma
True Blue Farmgirl
3410 Posts
Wilma
Knob Lick
Ky
USA
3410 Posts |
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Miss Bee Haven
True Blue Farmgirl
4331 Posts
Janice
Louisville/Irvington
Kentucky
USA
4331 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:04:48 PM
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Hannah - I just tried to reply to your email. Let me know if you get it.
Farmgirl Sister #50
"If you think you've got it nailed down, then what's all that around it?"
'Br.Dave Gardner' |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:43:36 PM
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Gee Laurie--- I may not be the brightest bulb when it comes to ##'S, but the "We Deserve It Dividened" idea is BRILLIANT!!! The only problem is-- how many people would actually DO what is suggested there? (I would, of course!) We all know that some people will STILL go out and blow their dough on Clothes, dinners out, cell phones, computers, SHOES, big screen tv's etc... all crap and no relief for their "FORMER" debts. Some poeple just CAN'T manage money-- like the Federal Government AND the Mortgage companies who loaned all that money to irresponsible IDIOTS in the FIRST PLACE!!
I for one am not going to worry about it. This is not the FIRST time our Country has found itself in such dire straights-- and probably not the last, but if our grandma's (and great grandma's) managed to make it back in the 30's and 40's--- SO WILL WE!!! We Farmgils are made of sterner stuff and it takes a lot to bring US down! Besides, I KNOW God will take care of me and my family. I put all those worries in HIS hands. Hold tight ladies! "For this too shall pass." ~~~ Hugs ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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Past Blessings
True Blue Farmgirl
1083 Posts
Brenda
Orchard Prairie
WA
USA
1083 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:50:06 PM
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I am personally glad the bailout bill was defeated. We are a country built on principles of freedom and democracy. Where we the people have rights and a say. To have the government step in so strongly in what is supposed to be free enterprise, is scary to say the least. We are not a socialist country and do not want to become one. If we have the government step in at such levels as this, that is exactly the direction we will be headed. As my grandma used to say, "You made your mess, now lie in it!" I guess I feel that greed on Wall Street created a huge amount of this and they will have to deal with it. We, the American people will need to do our share by learning to live within our means and realizing the vast difference between want and need. This could, in an odd sense, be a blessing in disguise, if in the end America learns to be strong and independent once again.
Hugs & blessings,
Brenda
Past Blessings . . . Celebrating Life as it used to be . . . when people loved God, loved their families and loved their country. |
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therealshari
True Blue Farmgirl
235 Posts
Shari
Beryl
UT
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 2:01:44 PM
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I too, am not in favor of bailing out the "big boys". I know, it's going to put a real spanner in the works, but that's what has to happen.
I don't believe "consumer credit" should be as easy to get as it has been. For the past 40 some years, CC companies have been targeting young people, just turning 18 and offering credit cards. That's just wrong!
As for businesses having to borrow to make payroll, part of that problem is that they are extending credit in too many ways, including the use of credit cards.
Yes, it would be nice if everyone could own a home, but think about it... if you can't afford a downpayment, and have to pay back a 100% loan for at least 30 years... have you really gotten a good deal? Especially if it causes you to commit more than 30% of your gross income just to make your house payment?
I would hope every child in school is discussing this issue on levels they can understand. Living beyond your means is dangerous, stupid, and flies in the face of all reason.
Shari Thomas
Who's giving serious thought (j/k) to changing "Four Country Gals" to "Ms McDonald's Farm" as we're now adding a preggie cow, due in early September. |
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miss wilma
True Blue Farmgirl
3410 Posts
Wilma
Knob Lick
Ky
USA
3410 Posts |
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Miss Bee Haven
True Blue Farmgirl
4331 Posts
Janice
Louisville/Irvington
Kentucky
USA
4331 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 2:34:25 PM
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In my rational mind, I know that bank deposits are guaranteed up to 100,000. But my dh and I have worked hard and saved to pay off the HVAC at the farmhouse(get the bill every month to the tune of $10,000.) and it has to be paid by next June. We had been discussing paying some of what we've managed to save on it just to make the total look better. But last Friday, I got so spooked I just took out nearly everything we had in savings and we paid it on the bill. That money was just so hard earned. I couldn't help myself. At least the amount is down by half now. :) We haven't financed any of the farmhouse cost. We do it ourselves and pay as we go. This was the first thing we put on a delay and it's been a nerve wracking experience. My dh says 'Never again'.
Farmgirl Sister #50
"If you think you've got it nailed down, then what's all that around it?"
'Br.Dave Gardner' |
Edited by - Miss Bee Haven on Sep 29 2008 2:35:58 PM |
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fionalovesshrek
True Blue Farmgirl
186 Posts
Paige
kinston
North Carolina
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 2:57:08 PM
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In a fantasy world, if the money went to "we the people" in theory, the goverment could access all our credit reports, and pay off all our debt first. Those with bad credit now get NO credit for say, 5-8 years. The remainder of the money left after our debts (house, car, Credit cards,) then goes into something like a social security fund, something for our retirement. This leaves us with no debts, cash for our future and a clean slate.
Like I said, it would be in a fantasy world, "paigetopia".
P~
www.fionaswampington.blogspot.com
http://homespunhensfarmgirlchapter.blogspot.com/
Man, despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication, and his many accomplishments, owes his existence to a six inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains. |
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laluna
True Blue Farmgirl
295 Posts
New York
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 5:21:08 PM
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I hope no one minds a cross-post (I saw the other "bank crisis" thread first and posted this over there).
Interesting commentary:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html
By Jeffrey A. Miron
Special to CNN
Editor's note: Jeffrey A. Miron is senior lecturer in economics at Harvard University. A Libertarian, he was one of 166 academic economists who signed a letter to congressional leaders last week opposing the government bailout plan.
Economist Jeffrey Miron says the bailout plan presented to Congress was the wrong solution to the crisis
CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Congress has balked at the Bush administration's proposed $700 billion bailout of Wall Street. Under this plan, the Treasury would have bought the "troubled assets" of financial institutions in an attempt to avoid economic meltdown.
This bailout was a terrible idea. Here's why.
The current mess would never have occurred in the absence of ill-conceived federal policies. The federal government chartered Fannie Mae in 1938 and Freddie Mac in 1970; these two mortgage lending institutions are at the center of the crisis. The government implicitly promised these institutions that it would make good on their debts, so Fannie and Freddie took on huge amounts of excessive risk.
Worse, beginning in 1977 and even more in the 1990s and the early part of this century, Congress pushed mortgage lenders and Fannie/Freddie to expand subprime lending. The industry was happy to oblige, given the implicit promise of federal backing, and subprime lending soared.
This subprime lending was more than a minor relaxation of existing credit guidelines. This lending was a wholesale abandonment of reasonable lending practices in which borrowers with poor credit characteristics got mortgages they were ill-equipped to handle.
Once housing prices declined and economic conditions worsened, defaults and delinquencies soared, leaving the industry holding large amounts of severely depreciated mortgage assets.
The fact that government bears such a huge responsibility for the current mess means any response should eliminate the conditions that created this situation in the first place, not attempt to fix bad government with more government.
The obvious alternative to a bailout is letting troubled financial institutions declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means that shareholders typically get wiped out and the creditors own the company.
Bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears; it is just owned by someone new (as has occurred with several airlines). Bankruptcy punishes those who took excessive risks while preserving those aspects of a businesses that remain profitable.
In contrast, a bailout transfers enormous wealth from taxpayers to those who knowingly engaged in risky subprime lending. Thus, the bailout encourages companies to take large, imprudent risks and count on getting bailed out by government. This "moral hazard" generates enormous distortions in an economy's allocation of its financial resources.
Thoughtful advocates of the bailout might concede this perspective, but they argue that a bailout is necessary to prevent economic collapse. According to this view, lenders are not making loans, even for worthy projects, because they cannot get capital. This view has a grain of truth; if the bailout does not occur, more bankruptcies are possible and credit conditions may worsen for a time.
Talk of Armageddon, however, is ridiculous scare-mongering. If financial institutions cannot make productive loans, a profit opportunity exists for someone else. This might not happen instantly, but it will happen.
Further, the current credit freeze is likely due to Wall Street's hope of a bailout; bankers will not sell their lousy assets for 20 cents on the dollar if the government might pay 30, 50, or 80 cents.
The costs of the bailout, moreover, are almost certainly being understated. The administration's claim is that many mortgage assets are merely illiquid, not truly worthless, implying taxpayers will recoup much of their $700 billion.
If these assets are worth something, however, private parties should want to buy them, and they would do so if the owners would accept fair market value. Far more likely is that current owners have brushed under the rug how little their assets are worth.
The bailout has more problems. The final legislation will probably include numerous side conditions and special dealings that reward Washington lobbyists and their clients.
Anticipation of the bailout will engender strategic behavior by Wall Street institutions as they shuffle their assets and position their balance sheets to maximize their take. The bailout will open the door to further federal meddling in financial markets.
So what should the government do? Eliminate those policies that generated the current mess. This means, at a general level, abandoning the goal of home ownership independent of ability to pay. This means, in particular, getting rid of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with policies like the Community Reinvestment Act that pressure banks into subprime lending.
The right view of the financial mess is that an enormous fraction of subprime lending should never have occurred in the first place. Someone has to pay for that. That someone should not be, and does not need to be, the U.S. taxpayer.
"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature." -- Frank Lloyd Wright |
Edited by - laluna on Sep 29 2008 5:21:46 PM |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
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K-Falls Farmgirl
Chapter Leader
2096 Posts
Cheryl
Klamath Falls
Oregon
USA
2096 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 9:07:34 PM
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Applauding!!! Here Here.. Thank You Luna..
Cheryl #309
Farm girl sister
Keep life simple, to Simply live. Life is too short to worry about it. |
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Aunt Jenny
True Blue Farmgirl
11381 Posts
Jenny
middle of
Utah
USA
11381 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 9:58:08 PM
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Personally....I would like to live in Paigetopia..haha.
I think it sounds like we are all in pretty close agreement on this one. There has to be a better plan!
Jenny in Utah
Proud Farmgirl sister #24
Inside me there is a skinny woman crying to get out...but I can usually shut her up with cookies
http://www.auntjennysworld.blogspot.com/ visit my little online shop at www.auntjenny.etsy.com |
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miss wilma
True Blue Farmgirl
3410 Posts
Wilma
Knob Lick
Ky
USA
3410 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2008 : 05:45:36 AM
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Aunt Jenny I cant understand why people think they have to have so much credit.We have borrowed money thru the years but never without a good collateral for paying it back and never very much and always worked as fast as we could to pay it off, weve never tried to live like the Jones but we never had to worry about having a roof over our heads, this borrowing more money on the equity of your home is crazy,If you cant pay for what you done have how is borrrowing more money going to help. I am not for the bailout, if it goes thru we are going to be taxed to death.You know farmers are looked down on but I would take a farmer anyday when it comes to finances and some of them have jumped on the credit wagon
Farm Girl #96
http://www.picturetrail.com/misswilmasplace
http://misswilma.blogspot.com/ |
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Past Blessings
True Blue Farmgirl
1083 Posts
Brenda
Orchard Prairie
WA
USA
1083 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2008 : 12:53:03 PM
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I am told that the bail out would be the equivalent of giving each American household $550,000!!! So why not do that instead!!?? This would cause people to spend money again . . . strengthening all those wimpy companys on Wall Street and bringing the economy back around. Us farmgirls could certainly make that money go a lot further, don't ya think?! Just giving it to the villains on Wall Street would have been insane. I truly don't want the government giving anyone any more loans . . . did we forget all the loans we have taken from other countries?! And yet we are considering loaning money we don't have??!! Duh! Thank goodness this bailout failed. We would be so wrong to pass on such a debt to our children and grandchildren. I just pray that some of the common sense of the original founders of America can somehow be restored. Honest hard work is the ethic we as a country need to be seeking after.
Hugs and blessings,
Brenda
Past Blessings . . . Celebrating Life as it used to be . . . when people loved God, loved their families and loved their country. |
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miss wilma
True Blue Farmgirl
3410 Posts
Wilma
Knob Lick
Ky
USA
3410 Posts |
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K-Falls Farmgirl
Chapter Leader
2096 Posts
Cheryl
Klamath Falls
Oregon
USA
2096 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2008 : 5:22:20 PM
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Here's a thought. Anyone listen to Dave Ramsey?
The Common Sense Fix
Years of bad decisions and stupid mistakes have created an economic nightmare in this country,
but $700 billion in new debt is not the answer. As a tax-paying American citizen, I will not support
any congressperson who votes to implement such a policy. Instead, I submit the following threestep
Common Sense Plan.
I. INSURANCE
a. Insure the subprime bonds/mortgages with an underlying FHA-type insurance.
Government-insured and backed loans would have an instant market all over the
world, creating immediate and needed liquidity.
b. In order for a company to accept the government-backed insurance, they must do two
things:
1. Rewrite any mortgage that is more than three months delinquent to a
6% fixed-rate mortgage.
a. Roll all back payments with no late fees or legal costs into the
balance. This brings homeowners current and allows them a
chance to keep their homes.
b. Cancel all prepayment penalties to encourage refinancing or
the sale of the property to pay off the bad loan. In the event of
foreclosure or short sale, the borrower will not be held liable
for any deficit balance. FHA does this now, and that
encourages mortgage companies to go the extra mile while
working with the borrower—again limiting foreclosures and
ruined lives.
2. Cancel ALL golden parachutes of EXISTING and FUTURE CEOs and
executive team members as long as the company holds these
government-insured bonds/mortgages. This keeps underperforming
executives from being paid when they don’t do their jobs.
c. This backstop will cost less than $50 billion—a small fraction of the current proposal.
II. MARK TO MARKET
a. Remove mark to market accounting rules for two years on only subprime Tier III
bonds/mortgages. This keeps companies from being forced to artificially mark down
bonds/mortgages below the value of the underlying mortgages and real estate.
b. This move creates patience in the market and has an immediate stabilizing effect on
failing and ailing banks—and it costs the taxpayer nothing.
III. CAPITAL GAINS TAX
a. Remove the capital gains tax completely. Investors will flood the real estate and stock
market in search of tax-free profits, creating tremendous—and immediate—liquidity in
the markets. Again, this costs the taxpayer nothing.
b. This move will be seen as a lightning rod politically because many will say it is helping
the rich. The truth is the rich will benefit, but it will be their money that stimulates the
economy. This will enable all Americans to have more stable jobs and retirement
investments that go up instead of down.
This is not a time for envy, and it’s not a time for politics. It’s time for all of us, as Americans, to
stand up, speak out, and fix this mess.
Cheryl #309
Farm girl sister
Keep life simple, to Simply live. Life is too short to worry about it. |
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herbquilter
True Blue Farmgirl
891 Posts
Kristine
Bonney Lake
Wa
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - Sep 30 2008 : 8:12:29 PM
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I love Dave Ramsey's common sense. I hope he's appointed to US Treasary in the cabinet.
Blessings,
Kristine ~ Mother of Many, MRET & Wellness Coach
http://herbalmommasda.blogspot.com/
Farmgirl Sister #97
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Across the Fence: The Bailout Bill |
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The Bailout Bill
