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Barnyard Buddies:  Raspberry Leaves for Cranky Mare  |
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KansasConnie
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Connie
Atchison County
Kansas
USA
69 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 29 2008 : 4:04:59 PM
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We have a young mare who is quite unpleasant when she is cycling. I recently heard that some owners give their mares raspberry leaves to supress the crankiness. (Imagine my surprise when I read Terisa's raspberry leaf tea recipe for menstrual cramps in the Raising Jane issue! p.18) Has anyone else heard of this or tried it on their horse? "Bailey" is almost unbearable during this time and we're thankful that the daylight hours are on the decline--hoping that will make her temperment a little more even.
Thanks!! |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
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eskimobirdlady
True Blue Farmgirl
700 Posts
connie
fairbanks
ak
USA
700 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2008 : 11:00:41 AM
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very interesting! i wonder if that would help butter bucket,my very cranky milk cow?
peace connie in alaska |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
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KansasConnie
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Connie
Atchison County
Kansas
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2008 : 11:55:21 AM
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| It looks like it is a reasonable price if it makes an animal less cranky...esp one you are riding or milking! I've heard TSC carries them as well. We're stopping by there today to pick some up. I'll let you all know what it does to Bailey's mood. |
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eskimobirdlady
True Blue Farmgirl
700 Posts
connie
fairbanks
ak
USA
700 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2008 : 12:27:18 PM
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thanks alee! good thing to know for sure! i wonder if it affects the taste of the milk? kansas connie, i will be very interested in hearing how it affect you horse!
peace connie in alaska |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2008 : 9:14:06 PM
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Hey Connie! There's actually an Herbal based product in the Equine and general livestock catalogs called "Moody Mare" for just this type of problem. You can find it in just about any mail order company that sells supplemental products for horses. (PBS Animal health, Jeffers, SmartPak, etc...) Not sure of the cost, but I think the expense would be well worth it, rather than dealing with 900-1200lbs of raging female fury!!! (I know if I was a PMSing horse I'd be SHOT!!!! LOL) I had a mare like that once, but the solution for HER was to put her cranky butt on a lunge line and SWEAT it out of her! I only had to do THAT a few times, and she learned to behave herself after that, no matter WHAT kind of "mood" she was in. Whatever you do, don't let her get the upper hand even when she IS cycling, because then you won't be able to deal with her AT ALL!!! YOU'RE the boss-- NOT HER! (and A smart horse KNOWS how to "work" her people!)
About the Raspberry tea-- I actually use it for my sheep and goats in late pregnancy and after they give birth. It's supposed to help support the female reproductive system and ease the birth of the lambs/kids and the passing of the placenta so it's not retained. I think it also has some antiseptic qualities that help prevent infection of the uterus. I've been using it for years. I give it to the ewes and does right after they give birth, warm, with a good dose of molasses mixed in (the natural sugar and vitamins gives them a great boost as well) and they just LOVE it!!!! It wouldn't hurt to give it a try, but you might want to clear it with your vet first. (or a holistic animal expert) Not all "Herbal" treatments agree with every animal species. Hope you find something that works for Miss Cranky Pants! ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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eskimobirdlady
True Blue Farmgirl
700 Posts
connie
fairbanks
ak
USA
700 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2008 : 11:41:31 PM
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| thanks tracy. sadly this cow alreayd thinks she has the upper hand. once i catch eher she is sweet and docile its just when she is loose in the pasture that she is a bi*** in the catch pen she is wild until you get a hand on her halter at which time she turns sweet. it takes about 2 hours and 3 people to catch her at this time, each time takes longer. she hasnt been handled in over 2 yrs except once just before we got her and the guy has "no patience" and "treated her without much kindness" using hobbles to make her stand to be milked. i didnt have to do that at all, its just the catching of her that is a problem. peace connie in alaska |
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windypines
True Blue Farmgirl
4457 Posts
Michele
Bruce
Wisconsin
USA
4457 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2008 : 04:28:20 AM
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Connie, have your tried having a bucket of grain handy when it comes to catching your cow? I am sure you probely have. But our beefers will about follow you anywhere, when they see that red bucket coming. I use a red bucket, when I feed the calves after weaning, and they never seem to forget. Thankfully she turns sweet for you after she is caught. Do you brush her down after catching
They do make a cattle calm product. I have never used it though.
Michele |
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KansasConnie
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Connie
Atchison County
Kansas
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2008 : 06:54:07 AM
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Tracy--Thanks for the heads up on "Moody Mare". (I couldn't find any at TSC...so it looks like I'll be ordering it online.) Bailey is beyond anything we've ever seen. MY DH and I have been around horses our entire lives and never run across a mare like this! Normally, he will lunge her until she's learned that behavior is unacceptable, but we've decided not to work her during these few days when her hormones are raging. So much so that we put it her cycles on the calendar!! We decided it isn't worth anyone getting hurt!
Thanks!! |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2008 : 08:50:03 AM
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Sounds like her "former owner" may be part of the cause here, and not just your Mare's cycles. Animals are just like humans in regards to reacting to foul treatment. I have two horses that have only had 1 former owner, save me, and both had some issues when I got them (one was starved, but never PHYSICALLY abused by human hands, the other just completely IGNORED until I got her). I was fortunate to get them both young enough that I was able to reverse the pshycological trauma, but it took time and patience to get them over those issues. They are now 18 and 9yrs old. I've had them both since they were yearlings. With horses like yours you need lots of patience. And a REALLY good TREAT that your horse can't live without! I'm such an advocate for animal bribery! (shameless, I KNOW! LOL)
We had a pony years ago that was notorious for being like your mare. Well, I REFUSED to play the "catch-me-if-you-can" game. I used to sit right on the feeder and not let him eat until he came directly to ME first. I also used treats to teach him to come to me without a hassle. It took awhile, but he learned that if he DIDN'T come to me, he missed out and the other horses got HIS goodies. I never went to see him without something yummy in my pocket and it gradually got to the point where I didn't even have to have anything for him to come to me. Makes life so much easier. Oh, and I have THREE mares right now, only one has given me grief, but she's quickly learned that I AM THE BOSS, not her. (and she's never been mistreated to learn that lesson)
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for your horse's bad behavior other than being SPOILED! So don't let her get away with it because she's establishing a pattern of dominance, and a dominant horse over it's human is baaaad business. It also means she has no respect for you, or anybody else that works with her, and, previous mis-treatment or not, there is no excuse for such poor behavior. But don't lose heart Connie! With the right sneaky, underhanded tacticts on YOUR part, you will find a way to teach her that YOU are the Queen, not HER!! (and lots of cookies, (and praise!) go a long way in making "respectful" friends!) Good luck ~~~ Tracy
PS Too bad you couldn't use those hobbles on her former owner!!! That's just soooo wrong. A well trained horse wouldn't need them!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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eskimobirdlady
True Blue Farmgirl
700 Posts
connie
fairbanks
ak
USA
700 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2008 : 10:58:19 AM
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tracy, what i have is a dexter milk cow who thinks she is the boss (took her 15 minutes in the pastue with the other 2 who are much bigger than her to teach them that lesson lol) mares and cows have alot of the same ideas and attitudes for sure! so glad you got those guys to love them! i have had horses with emotional problems too. bribery is a g reat tool no matter if its horses, cows, children or hubbys! lol
michele, i have tried all the tricks. she is too smart to fall for them ore than once. *sigh* you can see in her eyes that she wants to be loved and just cant get past her fear. we have only had her for several months but she hasnt gotten any better. she is probably still ticked off at us for "dragging" her the 3 miles home behidn the 4wheeler! lol. i do brush her and love her after she is finally cought. usually she lets me. she will actually snuggle up to hubby while he is holding her halter. rotten critter! lol. peace connie in alaska |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2008 : 2:49:48 PM
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Oh I sooo want Dexters!! That is my "newest" dream (I already have my mini-milk goats and my Babydoll sheep!)-- to have a small herd of Dexters. Not sure if I want to keep a bull or not-- not when there is a rather large herd (with VERY EXPENSIVE animals!!!) just 20 minutes away and they offer semen for AI. I think I'd rather pay the vet to take care of it than have to deal with a bull, no matter how small he may be! Living in Dairy country I know how cows can be, so that's not surprising that they are such Bossy creatures.
Horses are a different story. They are MEANT to be human companions-- though in a different sense than dogs, but companionable nontheless. There is a mutual respect between them and us, but an animal that has been mistreated, especially at such a young age has a hard time getting past that. But it CAN be overcome. I have a Paso Fino mare that just turned 18yrs old last month. Her body shows visible proof that somewhere along the span of her years she has suffered terribly at the hands (or NEGLECT) of humans. She's also been through TWO rescues that I know of. Needless to say, despite what life has dealt that mare, she is the SWEETEST thing on the planet! Not a single mean bone in her body. The other old mare we have has no visible signs of trauma, but her attitude, when we first got her last March (same time as the Paso) was testiment enough to some kind of mistreatment. She had also been allowed to get away with things she SHOULDN'T have been by her previous owner. I nipped THAT in the bud right quick! Especially when she tried to take a BITE out of me!!! (and she's a BIG horse-- half Hanovarian) Now though, she comes up and ASKS me to pet her. She doesn't pin her ears at me anymore if I pet her while she's eating and she treats the other animals with less aggression (no more kicking-- but she DOES still pin her ears). She talks to me all the time when she sees me out in the field or in the barn. She's turned out to be a sweet horse, she just needed to learn her place here and to realize that I'M Queen of the Barnyard, NOT HER!! Just keep working with your mare and don't let her get away with bad behavior. Once she realizes she's safe, and loved more than she deserves! (LOL), she'll come around!!! Have fun with her! ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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KansasConnie
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Connie
Atchison County
Kansas
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2008 : 5:44:43 PM
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Tracy--Thanks so much for your encouraging words!!
While Bailey is fairly sweet under normal circumstances I do believe her former owner did contribute to her attitude. From what he openly told us, she was intended to be a brood mare (she is double Pacific Bailey bred--a Quarter Horse racehorse) so he basically left her alone (he had a bad back). Now the rules are different at our house and she doesn't rule the roost! (Not only with us, but with our little herd as well...the only equine below Bailey in herd rank is our little mule.) We're hoping to help her become a wonderful companion!
We wonder if her breeding has anything to do with her being a little "high strung" at times...she has a ton of qtr race horse blood and seems like those horses are set to tick a little faster sometimes. And she's young--she just turned three, so we're hopeful that she can realize her place in our family. She's always been sweet to our three little kids!
Like your pony, Bailey had the bad habit of not wanting to be caught...my DH did exactly what you did by withholding treats! She has reconsidered now and lets us catch her. (What are your horses favorite treats?) I'm all about bribes as well! And she doesn't like it when the other horse or the mule recieves attention! Funny how raising horses and kids can be so parallel! It is all about RESPECT with both.
We're planning to go to Kansas City for the Parelli seminar in Sept. I'm hoping we might see something that we can apply to Bailey and her bad attitude. (My dad is a huge fan of Craig Cameron and Clinton Anderson on RFDTv...however there isn't cable in my household!)
And BTW--I LOVE Paso Finos!! And Hanoverians too!! How lucky these horses are to have found you!!
KansasConnie |
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eskimobirdlady
True Blue Farmgirl
700 Posts
connie
fairbanks
ak
USA
700 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2008 : 9:44:08 PM
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traci i am green with envy! a paso and a half hanoverian??? i havent been within petting distance of a horse for about 16 yrs. in fact it will be 16 yrs in october which is when our youngest son who was severely medically fragile came to us. i was so busy with him and then with as many as 6 new born special needs infants at once! after my son died 8 yrs ago(2 yrs before we moved to alaska) i jsut didnt care eough about anything in life to even watn to ride. now my health is not good enough to own a horse and i havent found any i can ride without paying over $50 per hour! dont be surprised if someday i show up on your doorstep! *wink*
peace connie in alaska |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2008 : 12:59:49 PM
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Come on down eskimolady Connie! You can take my Paso for a spin! (then tell me how she does, 'cause I haven't ridden her yet!)
Funny thing is, even though I've had horses for 18+ years (my Morgan was my very FIRST horse-- and he was a BUTT like your Bailey KansasConnie! But he's my love bug and is very sweet too. He's just gorgeous, even as an "Old Man!" LOL), I never have mastered the art of RIDING! I can tell you how to feed a horse and how to doctor them up, no matter HOW BAD the wounds (I took care of a nasty case of Laminitis last year, my Morgan almost lost BOTH back hooves, but I saved them and he seems no worse for wear-- needless to say, my Vet, who had no part of his care-- was VERY impressed). I can also tell ya how to deal with SOME behavioral problems, but, when it comes to riding... I'm CLUELESS!!!! Sad huh? I hope to remedy that soon though. I can practice on the Hanovarian X (If I can find the right BIT for her!). I HAVE ridden her... ONCE... and she's just my speed! Sloooooow and STOP! Next time I'll stay on her more than 10 minutes though! (LOL)
Sounds like your little Bailey found a great home KansasConnie. Glad you rescued her from a "Backyard Breeder" I could say quite a bit about that (I have a friend who is one), but I don't want to offend anyone, so I'll keep my opinons there to myself! Have fun with Bailey, and I think she's going to surprise you all soon enough! Love goes a long way in the critter kingdom!!! Hugs ladies! ~~Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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KansasConnie
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Connie
Atchison County
Kansas
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2008 : 11:51:26 AM
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Sounds like you know what you're doing if you successfully battled laminitis! That can be a tough one! Way to go!!
I'm a little bit the same way about riding. I love working them on the ground, but no so much that high up. I think it is a control issue for me. Thank goodness my DH is game to hop on there and go!
We're confident that Bailey is better off at our house! Although we're debating breeding her (just once!) next spring to see if that will calm her heat cycles down (a friend of mine with a masters in equine science says it might). So we're thinking about breeding her to a Mammoth Jack! I'd love another little mule for our kids to ride. And the way I was raised, once you bring a horse home it never leaves! So she better surprise us!!
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2008 : 11:43:23 AM
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The laminitis issue was a NIGHTMARE to say the least, and to top it off he devloped a serious THRUSH infection as well. I had no other choice but to treat my horse myself. The costs of treatment for such a condition are ASTRONOMICAL and I doubt the average person could afford the treatments. I know I couldn't!! I did what any vet would have done and I was very diligent in his care-- not to mention the fact that I PRAYED VERY HARD every single day!!!!!
After 4 months those prayers were Answered! (though it took a full year for him to recover) He didn't lose his feet and he did not have to have antibiotic injections (which can sometimes cause OTHER issues if used long term). I actually treated him with Apple Cider vinegar, tea tree oil and a $3 tube of triple antibiotic ointment from Wal Mart. Not the most "sophisticated" form of treatment, but it WORKED!! "Walker" was my very first horse and I've had him for 18yrs. I couldn't stand by and do nothing to help him and I'm happy to say that all those tears, all those hours of doctoring and all those PRAYERS did pay off!!! To look at him now you would never think he'd been sick a day in his life, but the picture of how he looked during his illness will always be there in the back of my mind. I just thank GOD every time I look at him that he heard my prayers and helped us get through it none-the-worse-for-wear!
As for your miss Bailey, I'm happy she got such a good home, and my reference about "Backyard Breeders" was by no means meant to imply that a horse should NEVER be bred by someone who wants a baby from their "Pet." I meant, those people who get a mare with the sole purpose of turning her into a baby making maching FOR PROFIT!!!! THAT'S what really bothers me. You saved your mare from such a fate Connie and I'm glad of that. I think your plan for her is WONDERFUL! I Know that no baby, no matter how MAMMOTH (LOL) it might be could be born into a more loving, caring famliy. And I'm like you, once a critter gets HERE, it will probably live out it's entire life suffering my care and affection! (he..he..he!) Keep us posted on her progress? Hugs~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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KansasConnie
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Connie
Atchison County
Kansas
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2008 : 11:54:29 AM
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Okay--now you piqued my curiousity...how did you use the vinegar, tea tree oil (love that stuff!) and triple antibiotic ointment? Did you apply it all topically to his hooves?
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2008 : 12:23:06 PM
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Ya really want to know what I did? Here it is--- I diluted the Vinegar with water and used a 10cc syringe to "Flush" the hooves. Then I used a 3cc syringe to "inject" the tea tree oil into the separation of the hooves-- it's a GREAT anitiseptic and helped to keep infections at bay. After the tea tree oil, I used another syringe to "inject" the ointment to keep the area pliable and to help keep the dirt out. I tried to wrap the feet, but the dirt would just get trapped under the bandages and make a big mess, to mention that the dirt would get clogged in the gaps. He spent a lot of time lying down-- which, in this case was a GOOD thing! That's why he was not given any pain meds.
Bute, (Or some other pain blocker) would have numbed the pain, yes, but he would have stayed on his feet more than he should have, thus possibly causing more damage. Because he could FEEL the pain, he layed down more and that helped his recovery. The biggest cost of treatment in the case of laminitis is the x-rays. There is a series of x-rays usually taken to determine how much rotation there is in the coffin bone over the course of treatment. That's also where the Farrier comes in-- as the hoof walls grow out he's supposed to trim the feet pertty much 2-3x as often as he would on a "normal" basis. Lots of $$$$!!
Anyway, that's how I did it. BUT, I had to doctor him TWICE a day for about 2 months, then once a day after that, but it took FOUR months before there was any sign of recovery. He did not run for over a year, but when he finally DID I cried! I was SO HAPPY!!! He had also lost nearly half his body weight. He looked like he was starving to death, but I just could'nt get him to eat, no matter WHAT I put in front of him. Now, he's fat and sassy and looking VERY good, though he does tend to favor his one white foot, but the other doesn't seem to bother him at all. Would I suggest anyone ELSE tackle such a thing-- NO! but if you're stuck between a financial rock and a hard place-- what other choice is there? If I can do it, I know someone else can do it too---IF they are willing enough, and dedicated to their horses recovery. Trust me, fighting a case of Laminitis is NOT for the faint of heart!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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KansasConnie
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Connie
Atchison County
Kansas
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2008 : 4:31:11 PM
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| WOW!! Your dedication did really save him! Right--horses can really be expensive esp if you have one who needs care like yours. But I guess we do what we gotta do! Now it sounds like he's flourishing! Did he have any permanent effects? |
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goneriding
True Blue Farmgirl
1599 Posts
Winona
Central Oregon
USA
1599 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2008 : 7:14:47 PM
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Some people in my barn use regular raspberry leaves that they buy at the health food store instead of Moody Mare. Supposed to be way less money!
My Gigi had a huge absess and it blew and it's been a whole year for her hoof to grow out. The vet and shoer said they were impressed how tuff her hoofies were, she didn't founder on the weight bearing hoof at all, altho the hoof did crack.
(let's see if these come out...)
Winona ;-)
When you lose, don't lose the lesson!!
http://goneriding.wordpress.com/
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goneriding
True Blue Farmgirl
1599 Posts
Winona
Central Oregon
USA
1599 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2008 : 7:18:24 PM
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I don't have a pic of when it first blew but the other pics are starting about 7 months into it. Her hoof has grown out a bit more and even still looks a bit clubby but the shoer is working on it. He said another 6 mos or so and she'll be right as rain.
She never took a lame step except right before it blew. That's the entire line you see in the first pic. Biggest one I've ever seen!
Winona ;-)
When you lose, don't lose the lesson!!
http://goneriding.wordpress.com/
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KansasConnie
True Blue Farmgirl
69 Posts
Connie
Atchison County
Kansas
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2008 : 11:49:51 AM
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Thanks for the info on the leaves...I'll look for the "people" variety!
That was quite a process on the hoof! Wow! |
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
1008 Posts
Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2008 : 1:50:00 PM
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Eeewww! Nasty! (the pics I mean). My 9yr old Mare had a blow out when she was about 2. she never suffered any ill affects either, but she's got a permanant ridge that runs from the coronet band all the way to the toe. It will most likely always be there.
Horse feet ARE tough, for the most part. My Morgan-- the one who had the laminitis-- was nicknamed "Ole IRON FOOT" by my friend's husband who's trimmed his feet for me -- he HATES doing it! My horse had got the TOUGHEST feet!!! He said he's never trimmed feet like his anywhere else. It might be because he's 18yrs old and never had shoes, but I'm sure his breeding (which is shrouded in mystery-- though we know he comes from EXCELLENT stock) has a lot to do with that too. I strongly believe in the old addage "No Hoof, No horse!"
Glad your mare's hoof is healing well Winona.
Oh, and as for my horse showing any ill affects? Not really. He still favors his one pink hoof a bit, which was quite contracted for awhile, but it has almost grown completely out. It does take about a full year for a horse to completely shed a hoof (like Winona said), but I don't think he will have any residual affects once it's completely grown out. Plus, he's back to his old mischievious self, so I KNOW he's forgotten all about the whole incident! ~~Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
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Barnyard Buddies: Raspberry Leaves for Cranky Mare |
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Raspberry Leaves for Cranky Mare
