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Barnyard Buddies:  This pup is driving me crazy-help!  |
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 08 2007 : 2:20:57 PM
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I have never had so much trouble with a pup before. My daughter got him this summer, so he's now 5 or 6 months old. His mother is Blue Healer and Border Collie, his father is Bassett Hound! Quite the mix, I know. He basically looks like a black Basset with some Border Collie markings. His behavior, though...I'm not sure if he's stubborn or stupid!
He eats anything and everything. Including the other dog's food. And they let him! He has shredded what was a very nice ottoman, the telephone cord, pencils and pens (I think he swallowed all the ink because I have never found an ink stain!), DVD cases, firewood, clothing, curtains and plants. He continues to jump up on the benches in the kitchen and take whatever is on the table. He has eaten 2 entire loaves of bread, each one in one sitting and then ate his dinner, too. He is a bottomless pit.
Smacking him with newspaper has done nothing. Scolding him has done nothing. Praising him on the rare occasion that he does behave hasn't worked. I use a kennel when we are all gone to work/school, but he still hates it and he potties in there and then lays in it. So then we have to wash the blanket and scrub the kennel and bathe him (which he also hates). But he still does it. Some of these things he's done are right in front of us or while we are in the next room! He apparently has the energy of the healer and collie, but he certainly didn't get the brains.
I now wait in the kitchen for him to finish his dinner (less than 5 minutes) and then I drag him off so the other two can eat in peace.
Today, I have started putting him outside on a chain when he's done something bad and letting him know he's a bad boy. I can't just leave him loose out in the back yard as he's also a Houdini!
He has done some damage in every room in the house. Outside, he digs holes. I even gave him an old leather boot, but he still prefers pens, firewood and furniture. I just don't get it. Every other pup we've ever raised learned after the first or second scolding. Treu (pronounced troy-it's German for "loyal") never seems to learn.
I'm out of ideas. Anybody have any tips for problem pups? I'm ready to pass him off to somebody else, but he's not my dog. And even if I did, I fear they'd bring him back anyway!
my blog: http://lisamariesbasketry.blogspot.com/
My Website:
http://www.freewebs.com/lisamariesbasketry/index.htm |
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Tina Michelle
True Blue Farmgirl
6948 Posts
Tina
sunshine state
FL
USA
6948 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2007 : 3:15:46 PM
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aww.. so sorry you are going through a time with the puppy
I must say..I had a full blooded border collie once that although she was smart and I was able to train her on a few commands(both verbal and sign...she was smart as a whip, but very high strung) , when she was left alone for any length of time..she would become a destructive little thing. I wound up giving her to a man that had 40 acres for her to run out her energy on..and she was going to be used to herd his goats on his farm. That was what I had to do with my gal..as even when we'd put her in the yard to run off the energy..she would get bored and would rip the bark off of the trees and dig holes. And if she was in the bathroom when we left to go anywhere..she would bite holes in the shower curtain and dig holes in the drywall and gnaw on the cabinets. Even though we played ball with her several times a day and ran in the yard with her, etc. It wasn't enough for her high energy.
Sounds like your dog may very well be the same way. Only recommendation I can give is to check into dog training classes for advice.
Sounds like the dog needs to have an area for intense training. Like those running courses that you see at the dog shows.
Wishing you the best/hope it works out.
~Seize the Day! Live, Love, Laugh~
visit me at:
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CorgiPants
True Blue Farmgirl
59 Posts
Jenna
Champaign
IL
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2007 : 3:22:31 PM
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Oooh, sounds like a very challenging puppy! Bassets can be hard to train (and especially to housebreak) but it does sound like he got the energy and mischievousness of the Healer/Border collie. First off, pottying in the kennel is not good. Make sure the kennel is not too large for him, he should have just enough room to lay down with no extra space. If your crate is too large you can get a divider that goes in temporarily while he is young so that it's the right size while he grows. As far as chewing, digging, it sounds like he needs a job. While the basset blood might make him a bit of a slow learner, teach him a few simple commands such as sit, down, and stay. You can do this in short little training sessions a couple of times a day, it doesn't take extended training sessions or much effort. He sounds like he LOVES food so he would be very easy to lure into a sit and down using food. And for eating the other dog's food, you can feed him in his kennel. This does two things-seperates the dogs while they eat so he doesn't eat out of anyone else's dish and also makes his kennel a nice place in his mind, it's where the food is. This might help the pottying issue and also make it easier to put him in his kennel if you have problems there. Try to keep counters clean and teach him an "off" command that means get off the sofa/bench/etc. I'm all about positive training and don't believe negative reinforcement does anything to help the issue until AFTER the dogs knows right from wrong. Don't assume just because you know eating a loaf of bread or chewing the ottoman is wrong that he knows it is. Provide appropriate objects to chew on and praise him when he is using those. Play with him with the right toys and if he should happen to get his mouth on something else, redirect him to the appropriate object and then praise for the correct behavior. A leather boot is a bad idea because that could lead him to chew on other shoes. You gave him one, why should all others be off limits? Make sure his chew things are noticeably different from things in the house. If you have a lot of fuzzy stuffed animals that he isn't allowed to play with, make sure his toys are canvas or rubber or some other texture. You can spray furniture with bitter apple or pepper spray. I hope at least some of these ideas work for you. He sounds like a challenge but I'm sure he will learn with time and patience what is expected of him. Food is your friend with this sort of dog, use it to your advantage! He could be a great tracking dog! Or maybe with his bench-climbing antics, an agility dog! When a dog's brain is tired, the body follows but they can get into a heap of mischief if you don't give them an outlet.
Get the latest information about swaps at: Swapdex.blogspot.com
And visit me and my family (including a corgi) at: corgipants.blogspot.com |
Edited by - CorgiPants on Nov 08 2007 3:25:13 PM |
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PlumCreekMama
True Blue Farmgirl
730 Posts
Heather
Iowa
USA
730 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2007 : 9:07:25 PM
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| If you are gone too long with him in the kennel, he probably can't help but go potty. I wouldn't leave him in it for more than 5 or 6 hours while you are gone. He sounds like he is really bored. Do you have a lot of chewy toys for him? I have had some hard to train puppies before, but once they got out of the puppy stage, things got much better and they calmed down immensely. Some of them were border collie mixes as well. |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2007 : 03:35:38 AM
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Sounds like the boarder collie gene has surfaced more than you know.
This poor pup need a job and some serious daily exercise. Like a mile hike and some good 'ole fashinoed fetch games. Get one of those Chuckit ball launchers. It saves your arm and really gets the ball out there. About 1/2 and hour of this a few times a day AND a nice long walk ought to tire him out.
Tying him up on a line will only make the problem worse.
Has he been neutered yet?
I have a Belgian who is constantly looking for something "to do". She'll just be a year old in 2 weeks.She has her toys amd was given said toys form day 1. So even if she shreds these and pulls the stuffin's out - better her toys than our stuff. The only really destructive bit she has done is chewed the legs on one of our tables. Clearly MY fault for not exercising her long enough.
This is my second dog like this. I knew fully what to expect from this particular breed, so when the dog messes up, 95% of the time it's operator error, not her!
Try hiding tasty/smelly treats in a lighweight box your pup can rip apart. buy the cheap plush toys he can shred. Start provoding acceptible toys and keep an eye on him at ALL times. If not possible. Crate him and put some toys in there for a few hours. then take him outside and really give him a workout!
Good luck |
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mima
True Blue Farmgirl
1573 Posts
1573 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2007 : 07:29:34 AM
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| Go treat yourself to a set of Ceasar the Dog Whisper DVDs!!!! The man is a genius! Tho after reading everyone elses posts- it sounds like we have some dog whisperers here!!!! |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2007 : 07:56:14 AM
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I raised a husky from an 8 week old pup until she died at 14 and though I adore, love, love, love puppies, she fixed me on them, because she behaved very much the same way. Only, she got to be 80 lbs quickly. But, I didn't know then what I know now, after working at a shelter, and obedience schools, and fostering MANY MANY dogs and puppies, there are many things you CAN do to make the relationship better in all respects, but it can't just be you--everyone in the family has to be involved and do the SAME things, repetition, repetition, repetition. Dogs need and like consistency.
I'm in agreement that this guy needs a job--and lemme just say that tying a dog out for punishment is wrong, and I don't believe in the paper either--I've done it, but I've changed my mind. Once you establish who's alpha, you can control your pup with your voice and, even, eventually with dedication hand commands. Sorry, I feel VERY strongly about this one. Border Collies (and the other mixes he has) are by nature, pleasers and HYPER INTELLIGENT, and it only makes the behavior worse to alienate them or separate them from you.
I agree that you should make sure the kennel isn't too large. They should be able to stand up and turn around comfortably, but no more. And, take the blankets out. We had to do so, because my husky pup ate anything she could get her mouth on, and the fibers twisted around her colon--an expensive and painful lesson for all involved. Our vet said, "she'll just have to deal with an empty crate". And, afterall, it shouldn't be necessary after a few months. However, my husky couldn't be left alone for a minute, even at 10 years old. She got bored, was mischeivious, and things got torn up. Everyone is different, right? You don't have exactly the same children, so it stands to reason that dogs require different approaches as well.
Get some of those hollow core thick bones (Dentley is the brand that comes to mind) and buy enough for the workweek (5). Fill them with cream cheese, peanut butter and veges, etc...wrap em in plastic wrap and put in the freezer. Give him one in his crate (and that's it--too many toys and they get bored). Pup will have to WORK to get the stuff out and it will make him use his problem solving skills, keep him occupied and thinking, and tire him out--a bit. The rest is up to you--the "chuck it" is a great idea, but be prepared to give him a good hour of attention. It's necessary--and only fair.
Hope some of these things work for you. I realize it's difficult, but I have to be honest, I loved my husky so very much, but I wasn't a very good dog parent at that time--I just didn't understand HER, and I was young myself. The pet/guardian relationship is such a rewarding one, and it really can be if you know who you're dealing with.
Go to some obedience classes (with the whole family) to establish that YOU are the alpha's in the house, and that he'll come along. It will take some time, and that is what he really needs.
"She was built like a watch, a study in balance ... with a neck and head so refined, like a drawing by DaVinci"...
NY Newsday sportswriter Bill Nack describing filly, Ruffian.
http://www.buyhandmade.org/ |
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl
4813 Posts
Julie
Russell
AR
USA
4813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2007 : 08:07:31 AM
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Border collies are work dogs and workdogs tend to get wild if they get bored. Sounds to me like he just needs more activity in his life! If he doesn't have free space to run and play he will probably always be like this. I would highly suggest to fence in part of your yard so you can leave him there. I know I wouldn't like being in a crate all day and that I couldn't wait that long to go potty! I'm sure he doesn't like it eaither!
Felt and Fabric Crafts
www.willowartist.etsy.com
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Edited by - willowtreecreek on Nov 09 2007 08:11:36 AM |
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CorgiPants
True Blue Farmgirl
59 Posts
Jenna
Champaign
IL
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2007 : 08:14:59 AM
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I would also like to add that if think you need more one-on-one help, seek out your local dog training club or behaviour specialist that uses methods you are comfortable with. It looks like there are several APDT certified trainers within a 40 mile radius of Idaho City.
http://apdt.com/po/ts/us_results.asp?txtZip=83631&txtMiles=50
I'm not a big fan of Ceaser Milan's actual training techniques but he does have the right idea that it is all about the owner and their attitudes rather than the dog willfully misbehaving.
Also, if you are interested in books, dogwise.com is a great place for awesome dog books. The reviews are always from helpful dog people and you could always start there and then order the ones you want from your local library if you don't want to buy them without seeing them.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Get the latest information about swaps at: Swapdex.blogspot.com
And visit me and my family (including a corgi) at: corgipants.blogspot.com |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2007 : 03:36:25 AM
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A friend and co-worked has a Springer spaniel pup. The pup just turned a year old and is still a spaz. It was a bad call in my book simply because my frined lives in an apartment and her dog has really bad recall and barely spends much time off the leash. For a fellow animal keeper and trainer-who ought to know better, the dog has been delt and injustice and would be better off running around on someone's farm and fields. No wonder the dog doesn't come back when called.
I haven't read much of Ceasar's books and we don't have cable, so I'm at a loss as far as "The Dog Whisperer". I have heard many things about this..... I also recommend Patricia O'Connell- The Other End of The Leash. It will help you relate better to your dog as the dog views his world.
It's never too late for obendience schools. It's also a good way to meet other people, make some new 2 and 4 footed friends and schedule a few play dates.
Owning a dog you truly care about SHOULD take time and dedication. You can tell the well trained/mannered dogs you see are proof positive to the owners' commitment for the betterment of the dog.
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2007 : 06:48:24 AM
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I have always had good experience with gentle dominance training. Rolling the dog over on it's back and straddling it. Not being aggressive or mean, but making sure the dog stays rolled over until _you_ decide to let him up so he knows you are in control. You can find lots of information on the internet. And I can give you more info if you are interested.
Alee
The amazing one handed typist! One hand for typing, one hand to hold Nora!
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2007 : 12:44:49 PM
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Thanks to all of you. You have given me some great new ideas. As far as excercise, he runs around the back yard playing with our border collie, Cody, several times a day. Treu has been great fun for Cody. They wrestle, play tag and catch-me-if-you-can a lot. This little dog can run unbelievably FAST. We haven't been able to teach him fetch, yet. He usually goes to get it, but then teases Cody with it and the chase is on! Either way, he gets a lot of excercise.
As far as the crate, he is put in when the last person leaves in the morning at 8am. I come home for lunch at 11:30 and let him out to play for an hour and then I put him back in. My daughter is the first to get home from school and she lets him out then. He's never in there for more than 4 hours. He doesn't potty in the house any more; just in the kennel.
The whole crate thing became an issue during this hunting season. Everybody was gone for 12 hours or more. We didn't feel it was humane to leave him in there that long and so we "child-proofed" the living room as best we could and blocked all 3 dogs in the living room. That way, they had each other and they could watch out the front door, too. We figured we might have potty messes to clean up but there was nothing else to do. No body pottied, but Treu finished off the phone, more firewood and several cd cases. I made sure he had his chew toys (only 2) and I made it clear (or so I thought) that those were IT.
Anyway, the hunt is over and my daughter and I will work with him even more. Even Cody was not this difficult. Nor was the Border Collie we had before Treu. Treu does not "get it" for a long, long time. It took 4 months just to house train him.
We really can't spare even a dollar right now for classes or training. So, I have to figure out how to do this myself. So, I will check out the titles to the books you all suggested at the library. I don't like using the chain, either. I am just ready to pull my hair out. I have never had such a frustrating pup.
my blog: http://lisamariesbasketry.blogspot.com/
My Website:
http://www.freewebs.com/lisamariesbasketry/index.htm |
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juliet79
True Blue Farmgirl
112 Posts
Heather
Worland
Wyoming
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2007 : 3:47:36 PM
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We just got a puppy this summer too, and he is a AKC Registered Lab. Infamous for chewing. There is spray that you can put on thing outside you don't want him chewing on (okay for environment, kids, etc, just tastes gross.) A couple I know bought a shock collar, put it on low voltage, and then zapped theirs a little when it did something wrong. The dog doesn't know you are doing it, just that they don't like the feeling. It only took their dog three days to get it.
Some people don't like the idea of the shock, but it doesn't hurt them! |
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2007 : 03:21:07 AM
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I know all about the hours ticking away and guilt about leaving an animal in a crate. If the pup is raised like thias from day 1, it ought not to be a big deal. HOWEVER! 12 hours is a really long time, so I might have done the same thing.
Another great training book is Don't Shoot The Dog by Karen Pryor. It breaks down the entire training process. I'd also recommend clicker training. It's a sound not really famillar to most animals, so it really gets their attention. It's based on positive reinforcement and all ties into this book. |
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
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Annab
True Blue Farmgirl
2900 Posts
Anna
Seagrove
NC
USA
2900 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2007 : 4:26:11 PM
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Yea! And if I can clicker train an ostrich for crying out loud, I cetainly think your pup can handle it!
It actually is a cool way to really engage the two of you. Check it out and I hope you will begin to see a difference. For rewards, I recommend tiny pieces of cheese or hot dog. These "hot" items have a high training value and tend to hold the dog's interest better than if you use his same kibble he gets every day. Keep treats in a small baggy or some other container you can reach into quickly and hook these onto a belt loop for easy access.
But do know this.....the training process takes time and must be practiced every day. Otherwise, all accomplishments previously made will evernually be hard to get back to the level they once were.
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lisamarie508
True Blue Farmgirl
2648 Posts
Lisa
Idaho City
ID
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - Dec 18 2007 : 08:09:30 AM
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Well, just letting you all know, Treu is improving. He has stopped taking food off the counters/tables etc and seldom ever chews anything but the toys I gave him. Unless, we leave him loose in the house when we are gone. He still hates the crate and continues to pee in it every day. I tried feeding him in there, but he eats so much faster than the other dogs that he then gets very upset when he's finished that he can't go raid the other dogs' bowls and just cries and barks. I tried giving him his toys and rawhide chews but they always end up laying in his mess and I have to throw them away. Will continue to work on the crate thing... Thanks for all your ideas. He has improved quite a bit. Enough, anyway, that I don' feel like getting rid of him anymore. I'm finding the Bassett side of him is quite a bit slower at learning than the Border Collie side. Our Collies were VERY quick learners.
my blog: http://lisamariesbasketry.blogspot.com/
My Website:
http://www.freewebs.com/lisamariesbasketry/index.htm |
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Barnyard Buddies: This pup is driving me crazy-help! |
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This pup is driving me crazy-help!
