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Across the Fence:  Genetic Engineering Information  |
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ThymeForEweFarm
True Blue Farmgirl
705 Posts
Robin
An organic farm in the forest in
Maine
USA
705 Posts |
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thehouseminder
True Blue Farmgirl
361 Posts
USA
361 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 25 2005 : 09:20:43 AM
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I'm glad someone brought this up. GE claims that genetic engineering is just creates modern day hybrids.
I disagree. Traditional hybrids are made using plant material only. Genetic engineers are using genes from things like fish and pork to "enhance" vegetables. How can this be good?
It is of special concern to me since I am allergic to both fish and pork. They cannot say how, for example, how a tomato made with genes from swine will affect me but they don't want to label their produce either. And what about pollen from fields of genetically engineered corn polinating whole fields of organic or regular corn. We know for a fact that this has already happened here in Nebraska.
I hate to sound like a fussy old fashioned girl but I don't see how this stuff can be good for ANY of us.
What do the rest of you think?
Lucinda
Who loves a garden still his Eden keeps, Perennial pleasures plants, and wholesome harvest reaps. ---Bronson Alcott
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Clare
True Blue Farmgirl
2173 Posts
NC WA State
USA
2173 Posts |
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citygoatlady
True Blue Farmgirl
82 Posts
82 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2005 : 9:57:42 PM
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I get most of my info on this from Seed Savers, in Decorah Iowa. Their magazines are worth the small membership fee, and keep me updated on the GM situation around the world, as well as other really interesting gardening info. www.seedsavers.org (or com)
It is so appalling I can barely fall asleep thinking about this. In my opinion, the GM seeds are a product of unvarnished greed, and evil. How Monsanto could impose this on our earth is beyond rational thought.
There are many times customers will not buy my goat milk, because I feed soybeans and corn a large percentage of which I assume are GM seeds. I do not know a source for organic feed grains in tne Midwest (do you?)
I first got my goats in order to avoid Monsanto's rBGH (bovine growth hormone) early in 1990's. But now, I have this to cope with too. NOBODY asked for it, Monsanto insists that everyone else pay for it, through the nose, through the generations.
A friend who worked at Monsanto (an executive) told us back then that rBGH was invented expressly because Monsanto had the technology to splice something and make a bacteria replicate it, so they needed something to produce, and picked the BGH project. It was most decidedly NOT because there was any kind of existing demand for such a product.
Another friend who worked there quoted a meeting she had been to. In it they were discussing, "What's a product we can produce utilizing genetic modification?" They were (men) discussing the merits of "artificial silk" which could, perhaps, be produced by spiders. She, a lady who sews, countered, "Look! People who want silk want a luxury fabric. They don't want an artificial silk, it's an imitation. Besides, if they want artificial silk, we already have all kinds of polyester (many lovely and silklike), and those are not considered "valuable" like real silk." She thought they were buffoons, and soon quit. I guess they dropped that project though.
I feel sick whenever I drive by Monsanto's beautiful campus, and see the signs lying: Solutia: Life, Hope, Health. Well, I don't have to throw up anymore out the window, because Solutia had to dissolve too (they might be going in for bankruptcy, I'm not sure).
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westernhorse51
True Blue Farmgirl
1681 Posts
michele
farmingdale
n.j.
USA
1681 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2005 : 06:17:09 AM
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there is a push from people like us to make the government put labels on this stuff. I work for a market research co. and we do many surveys on this subject. Although it's hard to understand, many people out there are not concerned about GE foods. They actually feel if it was bad for you our government would tell them. It's the blind leading the blind! Alot of other people we talk to just figure if GE foods dont get them something else will. I come home some nights feeling like I live on another planet. I cannot understand why people are not concerned about this and it scares me even more to think our leaders feel they can get away with it because the majority of people dont care. They dont care, I feel, because they dont know enough. Michele
"she selects wool and flax and works with eager hands". Prov. 31:13 |
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Kathy A.
True Blue Farmgirl
116 Posts
Kathy
Utah
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2005 : 06:58:26 AM
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This is an excerpt from the article title below. I hope we continue this thread this is such an important issue, and also leads to the simple fact that we all need to save all the seed we can and do whatever else we can about this madness. Does anyone remember the quote in the movie- Jurrassic Park "nature will not be contained!"
The Case Against Patenting Life[1]
John Ikerd
http://www.ssu.missouri.edu/faculty/jikerd/papers/SFT-Patenting%20Life.htm
The unique and unchanging nature of DNA, at first, might seem to support the patenting of genetically modified organisms. The genetic novelty of a modified organism persists, and thus, it is controllable during the life span of the organism. So, if a unique genetic code, a unique arrangement and assortment of genes, is achieved through genetic engineering, the uniqueness of the code presumably could be controlled. However, control of the assortment or arrangement of genes does not necessarily imply control of the functionality of the organism. Even if the specific function of interest – such as herbicide resistance – is verified as controllable and replicable, it is impossible to control the ultimate consequences of a new genetic assortment or arrangement for the organism as a whole, and most certainly, for its offspring.
The DNA of each living organism goes through a unique “unfolding” process, which in the absence of external influences might completely define the organism. But in reality, this “unfolding” is affected by a multitude of factors, which serve to make each living organism unique, regardless of its DNA. Some basic traits, such as color of eyes or hair in humans, may be genetically predictable, but the makeup of each individual reflects not just its DNA, but also, the ever-changing environment in which it comes to life and continues to grow. I have identical twin daughters; they have the same DNA. Same eye color, same hair color, but they were very different at birth and even more different at maturity. I didn’t make my daughters; they made themselves, and they made themselves unique – as will their children, and the children of future generations.
A living organism is a creation of nature, not an invention of humans. Humans cannot make living things, because all living things make themselves. Humans cannot control living things because they constantly remake themselves according to principles beyond human control. Living things continually grow, reproduce, and evolve into new and uniquely different individuals – their own individuals. Thus, the discovery of novel, non-obvious, useful principles of life must be considered as part of the public domain, accessible to all and for the benefit of all. No one should be allowed to patent life, to be granted a monopoly on life; it just doesn’t make sense.
An old Native American chief responding to his warriors, who seeing the futility of their war against the “white man,” asked why they should continue to fight, said, “ultimately we will not be judged by the battles we win or lose, but by the battles we choose to fight.” Ultimately, Percy Schmeiser, the hero, will be judged by the battle he chose to fight.
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citygoatlady
True Blue Farmgirl
82 Posts
82 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2005 : 9:47:00 PM
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Thanks for the strengthening words.
I feel like I am from a different planet about this too, Westernhorse. Because people know so little about any kind of seed, planting, agriculture, seed saving, it's nearly impossible to even begin a conversation about this topic.
People don't know what a hybrid is, nor open pollinated. Nowadays I see things in print about "this (some antique plant or animal) was the original genetic engineering".
Or, "Mankind has always made hybrids to fit his purposes, this is no different" and most people, including the writers, have no idea how wrong they are.
Living where Monsanto rules, the newspaper never dares to point out that worldwide, most governments have tried to ban GM seeds and imports and planting; our paper makes it sound like anyone opposed (including the Europeans or well organized groups and governments) is some loony fringe who's against curing world suffering and hunger.
I agree that our senators and reps know nothing, and need to be shown a video (I will post the name of a great one I recently bought) which will teach them what this issue actually consists of.
Someone I know was a lobbyist for a long time on a controversial issue. After many years of only making appointments with sympathetic senators and reps., he finally started approaching the ones he'd looked as as "enemies" before.
They said, they were SO GLAD he came by to discuss it with them. Before, all the proponents of this issue never talked to them, never taught them about the issue, and they were glad to finally learn. (Although they hadn't been motivated to find out on their own!)
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Kathy A.
True Blue Farmgirl
116 Posts
Kathy
Utah
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2005 : 10:38:17 AM
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I'm glad to read these posts! It's only been this year that I have felt like there is a great need to buy organic seed and preserve heirloom seed the more I learn the more important it becomes, I find so few people who care about the GM issue. citygoatlady, you probably know that monsanto recently bought Seminis the world's largest producer of fruit and vegetable seeds. This is a serious concern to organic farmers and gardeners. Monsanto has such a huge control on the GM seed market and many people feel monsanto has plans to push for GM vegetables and fruits as well as corn soy and cotton. GM regulations are so lax in the United States under current rules Monsanto can market new GM crops without notifying the agency unless the product contains a known allergen.
Monsantos genetic engineering history ... www.thecampaign.org
Curing world hunger is possibly not the real agenda of monsanto but just maybe it is the manipulation of the world food supply.
Would anyone be interested in helping put together a list of organic seed suppliers? Seed Savers Exchange is the place to start, but if the farmgirl forum members started listing the ones they know about we could put together a really useful list of organic seed sources and maybe find organic feed grains as well. we could also have a small farmgirl organic seed exchange right here on the swap-forum. I'm sure you can find it all on the web but I'd like to hear from the members here the organic seed sources you like. Here are a few of mine:
www.seedsofchange.com
www.nicholsgardennursery.com
www.johnnyseeds.com
www.wildgardenseed.com
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Kathy A.
True Blue Farmgirl
116 Posts
Kathy
Utah
USA
116 Posts |
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citygoatlady
True Blue Farmgirl
82 Posts
82 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2005 : 7:26:29 PM
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There is no desire to cure "world hunger" in Monsanto and the other chemical giants efforts to poison all seeds in the world with the pollen containing genetic material that they "own". They can and do fine people who use those seeds, and that is their goal.
Curing world hunger would mean promoting agriculture and saving and free distribution of seeds with actual improved traits. This is how the USA became such a leader in food production in the mid century - the efforts of breeders through agricultural universities, distribution of improved open pollinated varieties which farmers could save and replant freely.
No, the GM traits encourage use of the particular herbicide supplied by the particular company, for example Roundup.
Did you hear that in Iraq, the previous US governer implemented 100 "laws", one of which is that all GM seeds, marketing, and planting and research are to be allowed in Iraq. This law cannot be overturned unless the Iraqi govt finally exists, and, decides to overturn it.
The chem. companies press hard on countries where environmental laws are lax, where oppressive govts. prevent discussion or democratic organizing and protest.
If world hunger were to be cured, countries would be clamoring for these "crops". They are not. Most countries in the world, including starving countries in Africa, are resisting the imposition of this global food terrorism whose sole aim is to CONTROL every seed, and every bite of food, which every person on earth takes.
And it is not out of their reach, because, as any scientific minded person knows, the spread of pollen can never be controlled, and will distribute those genes, and already has.
And bottom line, these crops are not "more productive" than other hybrids, either. Ask any farmer.
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Clare
True Blue Farmgirl
2173 Posts
NC WA State
USA
2173 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2005 : 9:38:15 PM
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Here's a link to a good radio essay on seasonal food availability. Click on the July 22, 2005 entry. For a good essay on rural life getting pushed aside by development and tourism, listen to the July 29, 2005 essay... It all goes hand in hand.
http://radio.boisestate.edu/stations/npr/DJP.asp?Link=0
**** Love is the great work - though every heart is first an apprentice. - Hafiz
Set a high value on spontaneous kindness. - Samuel Johnson****
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westernhorse51
True Blue Farmgirl
1681 Posts
michele
farmingdale
n.j.
USA
1681 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2005 : 06:17:45 AM
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Oh Clare I listened to the radio essay and it hit home. I will never understand why people will move to the country and try to change it into what they just left!! Here, we had big trucks moving our geese into them and gasing them to death because the "city" people moved here and dont like goose droppings. Instesd of finding a way for everyone, animals & people, we just kill the animals. If you dont like goose droppings stay in the citites. It's bad enough the farmers had to selland we do nothing to help them, so they sell, builders buy, build big ugly houses. People from the cities buy them because they want to move to "the country", then complain about the animals, complain there are too many trees & cut them down. I will never get it!! When that radio essay was playing, you could hear the frustration and anguish in her voice. Im so afraid at times that by the time I can get my couple of acres, there wont be any left. Michele
"she selects wool and flax and works with eager hands". Prov. 31:13 |
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greyghost
True Blue Farmgirl
650 Posts
Lynn
Summerville
Georgia
USA
650 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2005 : 11:59:36 AM
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I find many things about our commercial food raising industry disturbing. From how our animals are treated to the pesticides and herbicides that are used on our vegetables and fruits. It scares me.
I don't want herbicides or pesticides in my food. I don't want to eat animals that lived terribly unhappy lives. People get so irate about puppy mills, but they often overlook what our livestock goes through.
If I could only convince my husband that NOW is the time that we bought our little farm, I'd feel so much better. I've changed our dog's diet, and I want to change ours (hard without a kitchen tho!). I want food WE raised, so that WE know what is in it, and what was used on it. I wonder how many of my daily aches and pains and occasional fatigue is caused by what was in the salad I had last night. |
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Across the Fence: Genetic Engineering Information |
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Genetic Engineering Information
