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Across the Fence:  National Sovergienty  |
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ArmyWifey
True Blue Farmgirl
712 Posts
Holly
Abilene
KS
712 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 16 2007 : 8:17:17 PM
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Does this bother anyone else?
Here's the thing that bothered me today - we were in Tulsa and stopped at a McDonald's for breakfast. Every worker there was hispanic, speaking spanish and playing a hispanic/latino radio station. I expect this somewhat in Nogalas, AZ or another border town but Tulsa, OK?!
Now I am not saying that these people were all illegals. What I am saying is this is America and if you are going to work at McD's you should speak English primarily & not play a hispanic station! This is not Mexico or Norte America. When we lived overseas we tried hard to learn basic German and use it - respect their culture.
Just really irritated me ....
Holly
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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Edited by - ArmyWifey on Aug 16 2007 8:21:06 PM |
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Leezard
True Blue Farmgirl
950 Posts
Elizabeth
Novi
MI
USA
950 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2007 : 8:33:15 PM
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I go back and forth with this issue quite often and can't seem to come down fully on one side or the other. Yes, it would seem like it would make their lives easier living here but on the other hand if they're getting by I don't see what say I've got in it and if I don't have any say I try not to let it get on my nerves too much. The music isn't much of a big deal to me because I like to listen to a lot of different music and have found I like most Mexican music I've heard but to each their own, I can see how it could be annoying.
Part of the issue is that in the US we don't particularly have a "culture" like other countries do, we're a melting pot of every other country in the world...sometimes when I think about that it seems overwhelming to think that there could be someone from every single other country in the world living here, crazy! I guess for me, and this is in no way saying you're wrong because I believe you're welcome to your opinion, I don't look at the US like I see other countries. We've opened our doors to almost anyone that'd like to live here and in doing so we've opened ourselves up to whatever may happen because we don't require English classes when entering or anything of the sort. So, to me, by opening ourselves up like that we've kind of got to take what comes, as long as it's not illegal.
Again, I can see how it could be irritating...I just wanted to share how I felt :)
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com |
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Marybeth
True Blue Farmgirl
6418 Posts
Mary Beth
Stanwood
Wa 98292
USA
6418 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2007 : 9:18:40 PM
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It's true everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Like Elizabeth I am sorta on the fence and I hope the pickets don't hit me where it may hurt. I have worked many years in the nursery (ag) industry and worked side by side with many Spanish speaking people. They all were very hard workers and nice happy people. Many were learning American at night school but among them selves continued to speak Spanish. They would say to me "you teach me" So we would share languages and much laughter. I have seen some of these workers years later and they would remember me and I always get a big hug. I never knew if they were legal or not and guess I didn't want to know.
www.strawberryhillsfarm.blogspot.com
www.day4plus.blogspot.com www.holyhouses-day4plus.blogspot.com
"Life may not be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well dance!" |
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ArmyWifey
True Blue Farmgirl
712 Posts
Holly
Abilene
KS
712 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 07:13:21 AM
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See I agree about the melting pot and I'm from S.E. AZ so I've lived and worked with many Spanish speaking people as well. My point isn't that there aren't good, honest, hard working people in every culture - rather that in an American restaurant in the middle of the country I find it very rude for anyone to only speak another language/use English as a second language. I have been on the other end with my German friends as well - saying "teach me". This wasn't the case here.
This is a very thorny complex, issue to be sure. There's a billboard in Tulsa as well that has a really cute little girl saying My mommy isn't a criminal she's a hardworking hispanic woman. That to me is outrageous proopaganda for one thing and a lie for another. If "she" doesn't have a green card/didn't when she got here then she's a liar and a criminal no matter how wonderful of a person she may be! Double standard at work - if you or I were in Mexico without the proper paperwork we would not expect to have rights in their systym, kwim?
Truly I understand why people are wanting to live here and have a better standard of living, I've done mission trips to Mexico and seen the poverty, but going through the proper channels is important as well.
As I said, complex issue.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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Carolinagirl
True Blue Farmgirl
486 Posts
Kim
Rutherfordton
NC
USA
486 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 07:29:51 AM
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This issue is tangly, for sure. NC has a HUGE hispanic population, because of the agriculture.
I don't understand how illegal immigrants can gather together here in the US and demand rights. First, without American citizenship, I don't think they have the right to gather and protest. Second, we wouldn't let, say, drunk drivers all gather together and protest drinking laws. The police would sweep down and arrest them. Why isn't that happening in this case?
Somewhere, sometime these people have decided that they have the "right" to cross the border illegally, partake of our country's resources and demand equality. If someone comes legally, then I'm cool with them being here- but that also means one should learn the basics of English (early immigrants had to do that to pass through Ellis Island) and follow the rules of the country. Otherwise, let them go back. No protesting and demanding until one is a citizen (and that doesn't count those with green cards).
Kim in NC |
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KYgurlsrbest
True Blue Farmgirl
4853 Posts
Jonni
Elsmere
Kentucky
USA
4853 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 08:15:32 AM
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This is a topic I've been thinking about lately, because in our law practice, we have an immigration attorney, who handles legal immigration cases. I have always been of the mindset that we all got here somehow--illegally, legally. Migration and Immigration is what made this country what it is. Bring us your tired, your hungry, etc...So, I really don't have that much problem with immigrants coming here without speaking the language--during WWII, many european jews who escaped to this country didn't speak english, either, and at that time, we had problems with native German speakers--in Brooklyn today, there are countless Hasidic Jews who speak nothing but Hebrew. Admittedly, they rarely leave the confines of their close knit neighborhoods where they've established everything they need in their community.
What I have some difficulty with, is immigrants (both legal and not) who take advantage of our public systems--they can be hispanic, middle eastern, german, or martian. For example. Our bi-lingual receptionist is "legal", but her father is not--he resided here in this country for 15 years under an assumed identity (a dead man from Peru), and had a successful business. He was found out, and deported, after sitting in jail for a year or so. She is engaged to be married to a man from Equador, who also isn't legal, but has a construction business making $400,000 a year. She works full time, but utilizes WIC because she is a single mom--even though she resides with the baby's father (Mr. 400K). They just purchased a $200,000 home (jointly titled), and she shops at Aldo, Saks Fifth Avenue and Bebe, all of which I couldn't afford to set foot in. She goes to her WIC appointments decked out in designer duds. What's wrong with our public welfare system that someone in that office doesn't recognize this? What happened at the mortgage office when he couldn't provide residency? In addition to this, she "handles" his taxes so it looks like he doesn't make much money--the way around that with the $200,000 home was a "stated income loan". The issue that I see, is that she (and many others like her)have been brought up to milk the system--to manipulate and lie, and is oblivious to the repercussions, or that her peers are paying for her fraudulent ways.
Personally, I can't imagine taking the extreme risk to get here, and, upon arrival, being in a country where I don't understand the language. How frightening!!! Trying to assimilate when you don't understand or know the ways must be such tremendous challenge--there is a reason they come.
"She was built like a watch, a study in balance ... with a neck and head so refined, like a drawing by DaVinci"...
NY Newsday sportswriter Bill Nack describing filly, Ruffian. |
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queenofdreamsz4u
True Blue Farmgirl
3845 Posts
Stephanie Suzanne
Smoky Mountains Tennessee
USA
3845 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 2:27:37 PM
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Kim, Carolinagirl,
I couldn't have said it any better honey!! Bravo! It's wonderful to see US Citizens stand up and say it the way that it is and the way that it is supposed to be. You are either closer to my age or you are a young lady very wise for your age
We need to follow Austrlia's lead. The Muslim's (in this case) started entering Australia like crazy and then started their whining about how they pray and a place at work to do it and everything else they demand when they show up anywhere. The Australian President told them to "Get Out" of their country if they couldn't conform to the laws of their land exactly the way it is. That they wouldn't be changing their laws or constitution for NO ONE.
Like the governor of California (Arnold) said not many weeks ago:
To the hispanics: Turn off your Spanish speaking TV stations, radio stations, etc and learn to speak ENGLISH. They are now complaining that their children can't keep up in school! These parents refuse to learn to speak English much less teach their children. So again, they are abusing the system.
Arnold emphasized that HE couldn't speak a word of ENGLISH when he entered the USA but he intended to make a life here and be a functioning part of society. So he immediately started learning the English language.
Just to add: I welcome anyone into my country that wants to live a free life and pursue the American Dream as we still call it, I believe. BUT you should show up with an "attitude of gratitude" and be happy to learn the language and blend in with everyone else. And get down on your knees and kiss the "free ground" that you have been welcomed to (if legally).
Why are the hispanics crossing those fences faster than we can count? Because they live a life of drudge in Mexico. That's the reason that most people come to the USA. To pursue a much better life.
Anyone is welcome here (if legally) BUT not at the expense of what the Citizens have worked so hard for!!
"hold close your inner child and always listen to the gentle whispers" ~queenofdreamsz
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Edited by - queenofdreamsz4u on Aug 17 2007 2:44:04 PM |
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janetinva123
True Blue Farmgirl
363 Posts
Janet
newport news
va
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 3:17:03 PM
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All the hespanic people i have meet have been nice and hard working. we did have a case here in va beach where a drunk driver who was here illegally killed two teens and everyone was up in arms but teens are killed by citizens much more often. i understand thier plight but still think the laws should be obeyed. immegration laws have not kept up with our global economy. we see a lot of jobs going to india like tech jobs and call centers, because immegration won't let enough people come here to do the work and we have not been able to supply that segment of workers. our unemployment rate is low. i still remember that in new york people spoke yiddish, italian, and in parts of maine many still speak french. in nc there are still indians that only speak cherokee. my family orginiates from ireland and scottland and when we came here all those generations ago we were made out to me the lowlest of immegrants. who knows where all this is going to go. but it will be interesting in the future.
Jc
http://beloved-creations.blogspot.com
http://beloved-creations.com |
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Carolinagirl
True Blue Farmgirl
486 Posts
Kim
Rutherfordton
NC
USA
486 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 5:24:30 PM
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Just as a point of fact, there are less than 100 Cherokee (I believe the number is 53) that speak the language, which is in danger of being completed eradicated. I recently read an article in WNC Magazine about Cherokee and how whites forced the Cherokee to speak only English. Now the language is close to being extinct, and the tribal nation is trying to bring it back.
I don't wish to make anyone give up their native language, or their culture for that matter, but I don't believe the US should change to accomodate other nationalities languages and rules (for lack of a better word). I'd never expect to move to Mexico (or anywhere else, for that matter), especially illegally, expect that they change their "national" common language to suit me, and demand rights that I don't deserve for lack of being a citizen.
Though it makes me feel like a silly conspiricist, I think that the tolerance of the Hispanic culture's actions and demands are going to make the US a weaker version of itself. I don't like it at all- it feels like an invasion that some are willing to tolerate rather than stand up and tell them to back off.
Jobs are going to other countries because people here expect to be paid more than poverty level wages, which is what people in other countries are making. It's cheaper to go to another country than it is here (I'm from the former textile capital of the world, which has lost all the textile jobs to other countries... and we weren't even unionized to demand better pay). People on welfare should be required to perform these jobs (that can't be filled) or not allowed the welfare, and that would take care of the jobs that the immigrants are filling now.
The US has closed its eyes to what's happening, and I think down the road citizens are going to have to decide if it is worth the fight to remain America or become some other country's backyard.
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janetinva123
True Blue Farmgirl
363 Posts
Janet
newport news
va
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 6:44:53 PM
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Jonni, I agree I don't want to see anyone abuse the system. Your example is very prevelant in this country amoung our own citizens and non-citizens.
Seems like everyone wants aid from the government and it seems to be easy to get around the system. There is not anyone who is not touched by some kind of aid though. It may be student loans, tax exemption on the interest of your house, or if you don't own a house then the aprtment building contruction where you live was probably subsidized by hud. The job you have may have been subsidized with tax breaks to the company. There is a lot of aid out there some good some bad, and some easy to abuse.
We have companies that over inflate their revenue so people will buy their stock and of course when the deal falls through everyone loses. I don't know what the answer is. I personally take responsiblity for making sure I do what is right and don't abuse the system. I hope my example motivates others to do the same.
Yes I do believe that welfare if received should be contingent and short term. I do believe that more should be done about fraud. But the laws changed a few years ago and you really can't stay on welfare very long. I taught welfare to work classes and most of these men and women did not know how to answer the phone so no chance of getting a job as at a call center. I'm not talking about people from other countries I am talking about people who have been here for generations -- Americans who don't speak proper English and race was not a factor in my class, it was across all races. We taught proper telephone skills, english skills, and typing skills, along with team building and personal hygene, resume and interveiw skills. Everyone I taught did find jobs and were able to get away from welfare.
I also hate that all of our manufacturing has gone overseas I think that is the biggest problem we have today. We need to bring back the manufacturing of toys to the U.S. especially. Children are our future and we can not aford to put them at risk. We need to seek out and buy American items and crafts from our sister Farm Girls.
Well I think that is my rant for the year.
Jc
http://beloved-creations.blogspot.com
http://beloved-creations.com |
Edited by - janetinva123 on Aug 17 2007 6:52:22 PM |
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ArmyWifey
True Blue Farmgirl
712 Posts
Holly
Abilene
KS
712 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 6:48:26 PM
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Amen ladies I agree with you on almost all the points. This is exactly why it bothers me - expecting the rights of citizen without actually being one! People seeking citizenship do have the option of serving in the Armed Forces as a way to expedite their citizenship!
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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jo Thompson
True Blue Farmgirl
603 Posts
Jo
the mountainside of the Chugach
in Alaska
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 7:07:59 PM
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Interplast was in China doing cleft palate surgery on small children that would be shunned and ostracized without the surgery......... a chinese man spoke in his own language and said through translation..
"you and I are both human beings", "we speak the same language, want better for our children". Being narrow minded can be our greatest tragedy I believe.
jo
"life is drab without a lab"
http://web.mac.com/thomja/ |
Edited by - jo Thompson on Aug 17 2007 7:35:52 PM |
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ArmyWifey
True Blue Farmgirl
712 Posts
Holly
Abilene
KS
712 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 7:11:50 PM
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Is it narrowminded to expect others to appreciate the country they live in and to learn the language? Nobody's asking them to give up their culture completely, just not expect the same rights as citizens.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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MagnoliaWhisper
True Blue Farmgirl
2817 Posts
Heather
Haysville
Kansas
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 7:22:54 PM
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hmmmmmm, I have to say though that it does feel a little narrow minded, since America was built on forcing the "english" language on the country, and on upon the native americans who were here first.......so what would be the difference? However, I don't see any one taking away english speaking children and putting them in spanish speaking homes, to force this change. Like was done in the past. I highly doubt the english language will be lost. I much prefer tolerance.
OTOH I'm also a fourth generation Mexican, who speaks very little to no Spanish. |
Edited by - MagnoliaWhisper on Aug 17 2007 7:23:42 PM |
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queenofdreamsz4u
True Blue Farmgirl
3845 Posts
Stephanie Suzanne
Smoky Mountains Tennessee
USA
3845 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 7:23:16 PM
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That's great for the english speaking people trying to get citizenship quicker but they couldn't possibly be accepting non-english speaking people?? Also, I want to know what length of an enlistment do they have to fulfill?
quote:
Originally posted by ArmyWifey
People seeking citizenship do have the option of serving in the Armed Forces as a way to expedite their citizenship!
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
"hold close your inner child and always listen to the gentle whispers" ~queenofdreamsz
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jo Thompson
True Blue Farmgirl
603 Posts
Jo
the mountainside of the Chugach
in Alaska
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 7:43:17 PM
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I feel very fortunate that as a woman I was born in this country, just lucky I guess. I think it's important to always try to put yourself in someone else's shoes, I care for Native people here in Alaska. Two generations ago, people were threatened, their children removed into "english education" that nearly wiped out their native language and pride. The legacy left by that is pretty horrible up here.......
I think it's important to speak english, I speak three other languages.... It is very difficult to learn another language, sometimes for certain people it's impossible.
So I'm just trying to play devil's advocate and encourage people to look at the whole picture, not just their own perspective. I try to care about people that suffer and are in need, often those people are just looking for a way to live and prosper just like myself or you. If they're willing to be killed in Iraq to do so, that must be rather extraordinary wouldn't you say? jo
"life is drab without a lab"
http://web.mac.com/thomja/ |
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Leezard
True Blue Farmgirl
950 Posts
Elizabeth
Novi
MI
USA
950 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 8:22:40 PM
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It almost seems like things are coming full circle for our country, almost like karma. "We" took this land from the natives that were here, we didn't come here and asimilate ourselves to their languages and livestyles we just over took the country and we took the southwest from Mexico. So in some ways it seems like what goes around, comes around...it feels like that anyway. Not that I think Mexicans are trying to take over but just the general idea of how things are happening here now.
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com |
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queenofdreamsz4u
True Blue Farmgirl
3845 Posts
Stephanie Suzanne
Smoky Mountains Tennessee
USA
3845 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 9:21:32 PM
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This topic was begun about the disturbance of Spanish language and latino music blaring out in a McDonalds in the USA.
I'm proud to be an American Citizen and would never insult the men and women that fought for my honor and freedom. I'm proud to speak the English language and would help anyone that wanted to learn the language.
This is simply about showing patriotism and pride for one's country. This isn't Mexico. This is the United States of America. Red, White and Blue flys high and always will.
No, the English language will not ever be lost. And it will never become the second language in America either. This will be true due to the American citizens that remember exactly what this country was founded upon and respect it.
Anyone that lives here or arrives here and it doesn't suit them...well they can leave the same way they arrived.
http://www.hqudc.org/
http://www.dar.org/natsociety/whoweare.cfm
"hold close your inner child and always listen to the gentle whispers" ~queenofdreamsz
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 9:55:28 PM
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Just remember there isn't an official language in the US. It is just that English is the most popular language.
Alee
The amazing one handed typist! One hand for typing, one hand to hold Nora!
http://home.test-afl.tulix.com/aleeandnora/ |
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ArmyWifey
True Blue Farmgirl
712 Posts
Holly
Abilene
KS
712 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2007 : 10:17:07 PM
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Depending on the state you live in actually Alee - some states have already made English the official language because of this issue.
Thanks Stephanie.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2007 : 12:59:38 AM
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Exactly Holly, some states have done it, but for the whole US, we still have no official language.
I feel for people who live in countries where they don't speak the language. I can't imagine moving to some place like China or somewhere else where I would hear another language all the time. I am sure you pick it up living in the place where you are at, but it must still be hard.
Isn't America great where so many cultures can all be "American"? I know if you look at my pedigree there are at least 6 different languages that my ancestors spoke.
Alee
The amazing one handed typist! One hand for typing, one hand to hold Nora!
http://home.test-afl.tulix.com/aleeandnora/ |
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Marybeth
True Blue Farmgirl
6418 Posts
Mary Beth
Stanwood
Wa 98292
USA
6418 Posts |
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queenofdreamsz4u
True Blue Farmgirl
3845 Posts
Stephanie Suzanne
Smoky Mountains Tennessee
USA
3845 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2007 : 02:55:07 AM
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That's right, the majority of the population of the United States of America speak "American English".
Websters intentions when he wrote the American English dictionary was to show that the Americans spoke a different dialect from the Britians.
"hold close your inner child and always listen to the gentle whispers" ~queenofdreamsz
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Edited by - queenofdreamsz4u on Aug 18 2007 03:08:14 AM |
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Alee
True Blue Farmgirl
22941 Posts
Alee
Worland
Wy
USA
22941 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2007 : 04:03:07 AM
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Speaking of Dialects- There are different dialects of American English even within our own society. I have heard slang from every walk in life that I need explained to me or I just can't even begin to follow the conversation. Cajun, inner city, mountain folk, and leet (sp?) speak are just a few. It seems like each generation, location, and profession developes their own dialect. Do we just like to confuse other people? LOL
Alee
The amazing one handed typist! One hand for typing, one hand to hold Nora!
http://home.test-afl.tulix.com/aleeandnora/ |
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UrbanChick
True Blue Farmgirl
331 Posts
Ayako
Atlanta
GA
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2007 : 05:59:38 AM
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I've have read this issue and like many I sit on the fence. I am a second generation japanese but my parents came over 40 years ago. My father first because he got his green card first. My mom 1 1/2 years later with my two brothers because they had to wait to get their green cards. Japanese was spoken in the home. It still is in my mom's house. She may talk to you in English for some words but out of respect we all answer back in Japanese. She made it very clear that we all learn perfect american english. No slang used in our household and no japanese accents when english was used among the siblings. My parents came legally, opened their own business, never went on government assistance, raised a large family and all the children are successful. There were hard times and there were times when we were treated less than what we thought was fair so sometimes I think we did it legally and without government help why can't they, but on the other hand I can understand the want to make it easier for themselves because it was sure hard the legal way. My mom became a citizen about 7 years ago after about 35 years living with a green card. It took her 2 years to study for her citizenship test, but she passed and we were all happy for her.
"Courage dosen't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying: I will try again tomorrow." |
Edited by - UrbanChick on Aug 18 2007 09:31:04 AM |
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Leezard
True Blue Farmgirl
950 Posts
Elizabeth
Novi
MI
USA
950 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2007 : 10:09:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alee
Isn't America great where so many cultures can all be "American"? I know if you look at my pedigree there are at least 6 different languages that my ancestors spoke.
I agree whole heartedly! I also like to see how conversations turn out, coming from one topic and expanding into others :)
I don't think that language makes or doesn't make someone a citizen of the United States and, in my opinion, if someone can make it in this country speaking their own language I don't think that makes them bad or disrespectful of this country. I do respect this country today but I don't think that the ways we came about "owning" this country were all honorable and something to be proud of and that's got nothing to do with our service men and women as I have great respect for them and their service to our country as well. I realize that's probably not a popular opinion but either way that's how I feel.
http://ruby--slippers.blogspot.com/
www.leezard.etsy.com |
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Across the Fence: National Sovergienty |
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National Sovergienty
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