| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| willowtreecreek |
Posted - Oct 09 2006 : 4:00:36 PM
I'm curious about what you all think of the "organic" products offered at the grocery store. I would love to buy organic local stuff and do when I can there just isn't much available in my area. I have recently seen an influx of thses "organic" products in Wal-mart. Even prego has an organic pasta sauce. How sure can I be that these are actually organic and is the extra cost really worth it on items like these? I would spend more for fresh tomatoes grown locally but I'm just not sure if I should spot the extra pennies(or dollars!) on some of these products. I've read lables and all are "certified" by different organizations that I am just unfamiliar with. Any thoughts or wisdom would be appreciated!
Jewelry, art, baskets, etc.
www.willowtreecreek.com |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Feb 26 2007 : 11:31:33 AM
Tasha,
I am sure glad that you clarified what you ment by "if it's not local, it's not organic." Here I thought you were managing to live compleatly on localy grown organic food and I was feeling desperately lacking.
Trina
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Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| GaiasRose |
Posted - Feb 23 2007 : 07:40:07 AM
Holly...the joke about Whole Foods is Whole Foods=Whole Paycheck. They are really expensive compared to shopping at a natural food co-op. The Twin Cities has a few really good ones, Mississippi Market (I HEART MM...still a memeber even way the heck up here, though I only shop there three or four times a year anymore, it's simple too far), and the Wedge. Great places!
One thing that bugs me about Whole Foods, and Catherine may have heard this recently on NPR as well, they are really turning big box like. They are acquiring Wild Oats and just becoming HUGE. Whole Foods already has some 100+ stores across the country, Canada and the UK and they are going to get I think it was 130+ more with acquiring Wild Oats.
I stick by what I said in previous posts, while it may have been grown organically, which is great, if it comes from half way across the country it is not organic in my purist opinion. I DO buy organic labeled foods at the grocery, simply because I know there will be no chemicals, but to me it is only organically labeled, and becuase it did not come from within lets say 50 miles of it's sale point, to me it simply isn't organic. Sadly, Whole Foods more often than not, ships most things from far off...
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose
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| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Feb 22 2007 : 1:04:28 PM
Lorij,
I understand the need to buy what and where you can affort, but a bit of advice. Call around to your little mom and pop pharmacies, they may be cheaper than walmart. My mama gets her medications at one in our little town and saves almost half over walmart.
Trina
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Feb 22 2007 : 06:43:36 AM
I cannot bring myself to pay the prices asked for organic greens, so I grow my own in the summer and use sprouts in the winter. This winter I grew a couple months worth of greens in the picture window and they did very well until it got cold (we heat with wood and the room with the window gets rather cold at night, not to mention that our windows are aweful!)
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| vintagechica |
Posted - Feb 21 2007 : 08:39:20 AM
All of this makes my head spin really. I love all of the wonderful information that you all have posted here. It is such a worthwhile debate to have and the perfect forum. I have a couple of points/questions...
I buy produce locally during the summer months when our farmer's market is open June-October. But what about the winter months. I put up what I can (strawberries, tomatoes, rasperries, etc.) and can buy eggs, honey, meat locally year round. But what do you all do during the winter for produce? I mean lettuce doesnt really freeze well.
Secondly, I chatted with my grandfather about this topic this morning. He and my family had a Peach Orchard for years in Texas. He said that he tried to use as few pesticides as he could, but if there is a worm or a blight of some sort that is threatening to ruin your crop, he feels that pesticides are absolutely necessary. He always tried to farm the safest way possible, but he said if it weren't for 7 dust and others, he would have gone out of business. So, what are your thoughts on this?
I have been thinking about this very topic for quite some time and still trying to sort it out, so I would appreciate any thoughts and I will continue to read. Thank you so much for all of the info.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
A sure way to avoid housework...live outdoors.
Visit me anytime at my blog:
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| sleepless reader |
Posted - Feb 21 2007 : 08:34:37 AM
Holly, hope you enjoyed your trip to San Diego! I agree with you about Whole Foods; I can't afford to shop there (plus it is way too far for me). There is a company called Jaffe Brothers www.organicfruitsandnuts.com who sell organic dried fruits, nuts, grains, seasonings, etc. They ship! They are limited, but everything I've ever gotten from there has been great and, I think, reasonable in price. And I'm so glad your prayers for good food have been answered; it works!
Thanks to whomever it was for posting the Pollan article. A friend had sent it to me. What an eye opener. Also, we should all read Jane Goodall's Harvest for Hope. Wonderful book.
You ladies are all very insightful :)
Sharon
Life is messy. Wear your apron! |
| ArmyWifey |
Posted - Feb 21 2007 : 08:09:54 AM
The commisary is starting to carry more and more organic label stuff but we can't get good local anything. Our produce is pitiful (been told it's 2nds from the LA farmers market)and there's no organic meat that's reasonable. They used to carry NatureWell which wasn't "organic" but was pesticide/hormone/antibiotic free ground beef for like $4.30 or so for two lbs - now they carry organic but it's $5.00 or more per lb.
Right now we are buying organic/raw milk from Organic Pastures (comes frozen via ups) and other items at the commisary. If we are in big town (2-3 hours away) and there's a Trader Joes sometimes we stop there. Right now I haven't been able to afford the organic beef - plus the commisary has such small portions for a family of 6 (two of which are boys who are ALWAYS hungry)! We don't even have the option of a good co-op that will deliver and the farmer's market is two hours away on Thursday mornings (not a good day). Whole Foods Market was beautiful but $$$! I want to learn to garden but the Mojave's not easy and I've killed lots of stuff.
I am really looking forward to our move to KS food wise!
Holly
ps -- I know it may sound hokey to some but truly when I have prayed for the Lord to provide food sources He has! Even here with the milk - it's in Fresno so never spoiled, in Germany we found a wonderful family that we bought raw goats milk from for two years and a miller who sold bulk grains.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Feb 21 2007 : 06:37:22 AM
Holly, doesn't your commisary have a organic section? Ours is very limited, but is enough to maintain the Maker's Diet on a military budget. Since local is very scarce this time of year; I buy organic milk, eggs, meat, and some veggies at the commisary. With a little creativity we can eat rather well. I use more fermented grains and beans (purchased in bulk-special order-from the health food store)than Dr. Ruben recomends, but we are still far healthier than we were before.
Trina
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| ArmyWifey |
Posted - Feb 20 2007 : 11:09:24 AM
We try our best. It's a bit hard here in the middle of the Mojave at times. This weekend we stopped by WHole Foods in San Diego and HOLY COW we could not afford to shop there for everything on a military budget!!! Dr. Jordan Ruben says in the Maker's Diet to focus on the meat/eggs and buy the best produce you can for those of us who are budget strapped! & pray for God to provide!
Holly
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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| Jana |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 9:59:33 PM
Yep, I guess if it once was "alive" or any componant of it was "alive", its organic. LOL.
I have to say that my hubby swears organic bananas taste better and I think he's right.
Jana |
| ThymeForEweFarm |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 7:15:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Annab
My husband and I have a huge hang up w/ the word organic
correct me if I'm wrong, but if it can be composted isn't it considered "organic".
You are right. Even things that can't be composted, such as rocks, are organic. Sand is organic. Natural minerals are organic.
quote:
I'd rather labels start to read pesticide free nad get a little more specific
Organic growers can and do use natural pesticides so this wouldn't be adequate labeling.
quote:
p.s. our neighbor down the road sells her stuff pesticide free including chickens. In another week, her chickens will go to the CO OP for butchering. We just happen to have 5 roosters I can't bear to butcher myself and hubby doesn't want to be bothered, so we'll have chickes I raised myself! And yes, they are truely free range, AND pesticide/hormone free. and allowed to mature at their own rate.
Poultry isn't raised on hormones in the US. It's illegal. Pesticides aren't bad if they're safe. I'd rather use DE or something similar on my birds than allow lice, worms or other pests.
Robin
www.outdoorwriter.wordpress.com
www.thymeforewe.com
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| MustangSuzie |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 2:00:58 PM
We do have to live in the world we are in. I rarely shop at walmart any more. I would rather spend my dollars, even if it's a few more, supporting local smaller businesses. I do think it's great that some companies such as Earthbound are trying to make some changes. Having grown up on a farm in agriculture I know how hard it is for local small time farmers to make a living. When we as consumers start demanding better products, they will come.
With my first comment, we have wandered a long way from the days when everyone grew their own food. You still have to really look at the ingredients and where the food is from though. I find it hard to even make myself go to the grocery store at times, I pysch myself out thinking about how things were produced and where they came from and how long they have sit on the shelf. ewwww
I can hardly wait until it gets warm enough to start gardening as I am going to grow as much of everything we need as posssible. And hopefully if everything goes right I'm going to sell my extra at farmers market. So anytime now it can stop snowing!!!!!! lol
Blessings....
Sarah
"In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations." -From The Great Law Of The Iroquois Confederacy.
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| kitchensqueen |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 12:47:22 PM
I stay away from the big box stores whenever I can. For food purchases, in the summer we make weekly trips to the farmer's market, and there is a small independent natural grocery that we get most of our dry goods and such from. We do have to go to chain groceries for some items, and we usually choose Whole Foods, but do shop at Dominick's occassionally because they're right around the corner from our house. We usually go there for "emergency" stuff when I realize I've run out of something I need right at that moment. With planning we can usually avoid it. Yes, organic costs more (true cost of human-powered labor and paying a living wage to the farmer) but we think it's a good cause to spend the money on. We never scrimp on food costs. Also, since we've switched to a mostly organic and local diet, our health (and our consciouses) has improved. And you can't beat that.
http://apartmentfarm.wordpress.com
Opening in March 2007:
http://shadetreestudios.etsy.com |
| Annab |
Posted - Oct 23 2006 : 12:33:01 PM
My husband and I have a huge hang up w/ the word organic
correct me if I'm wrong, but if it can be composted isn't it considered "organic". I'm very wary of Wal Mart jumping on the band wagon, however pleased to see the prisec for this stuff becoming more competitive.
I'd rather labels start to read pesticide free nad get a little more specific
We had a smaller chain gorcery store that had a small pocket of this kind of stuff a few years ago. that and the monthly runs to Whole Foods and Earth Fare kept us going. Now I can almost find this stuff locally...everyting except my almond milk. I can still get this from the smaller independent grocer who sells all wholistic and locally grown pesticide free fruits/veggies and homemade bread!
Guess the key to this issue is keep reading to stay educated
p.s. our neighbor down the road sells her stuff pesticide free including chickens. In another week, her chickens will go to the CO OP for butchering. We just happen to have 5 roosters I can't bear to butcher myself and hubby doesn't want to be bothered, so we'll have chickes I raised myself! And yes, they are truely free range, AND pesticide/hormone free. and allowed to mature at their own rate. |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Oct 19 2006 : 09:10:08 AM
There is a certain brand that our commisary carrys almost exclusively and my husband laughs when I call it organic junk food. It's good to know I am not the only one thinking this way. I must confess that I love chocolate, but it is a treat not a staple.
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| Horseyrider |
Posted - Oct 18 2006 : 11:15:51 AM
Okay, this was funny.
I just got back from Walmart. I had to pick up a few things. And what did I see on the shelves??? Kraft ORGANIC Macaroni and Cheese. I burst out laughing in the store and had to hush so it wouldn't look any worse than it already was. Yeppers, there was that magical blue and white box with the tubes of pasta and cheese flavored orange glue all over it, ORGANIC. It's like organic Twinkies or something, a true oxymoron.
I bought a box to show my hubby. This is too funny.
And for those that don't see the humor, just go into most any "health food" store and look a the so-called healthy junk there. Potato chips, dried bananas, "yogurt" covered raisins, etc. It's junk too; it just doesn't have the additives, preservatives, pesticides, etc.
My son in law razzes me about what I consider junk and what I consider healthy, but I tell him that just because your body can digest it doesn't mean it's food.  |
| Horseyrider |
Posted - Oct 18 2006 : 07:04:32 AM
This is a difficult question.
I know there is concern among organic producers in finding enough suppliers. So they're having to go overseas to find growers and suppliers. Since local regulations don't have the same structure as ours for what is organic and what isn't, they have to send company representatives to see to it that their standards are being met. It's a dance with the devil, and they acknowledge that. There was an interesting article about it, the cover story for the October 16th issue of Business Week. People want it, but supplying it is another matter.
I know for many people it's hard to reconcile the word 'organic' with something that's shipped from halfway around the world. I understand that. But I do believe that offering consumers a choice in Walmart, right up there next to the commercially raised spaghetti sauce, is a step forward. You don't have to buy it; perhaps you have access to your own home grown, or to high quality local stuff. But not everyone is like you.
What about city people, people in dense populations who have no access to growing spaces, or people whose lives or careers demand so much of their time that they can't do as you do? Can't they have something nice too? Or should they have to have commercially raised stuff because purists don't think of stuff grown without pesticides or herbicides on clean soil but is trucked for long distances is 'organic?'
Bring it to the mass market. Apply mass market criteria for freshness and quality. Everyone benefits when the distinctions are made. Shoot, I'm old enough to remember a time when the only people who ate yogurt were hippies. Vegetarian fare? Tofu? Forget it. Now it's in your supermarket! I'll agree that the formula's been messed with, but people aren't going to switch easily from their Trix in the morning without something being similar. In time, many move on to more healthful fare. And even if they don't, it's better than what they had.
Will the world be cleaner with the advent of more organic mega-farming networks? Or dirtier? Could it be possible that when the pressures of fuel costs come to bear, that people will rework the networking for more local produce? I think that'll happen to some degree, but we Americans tend to be spoiled in wanting summer fruits in winter, and tropical fruits where they don't grow. When's the last time you ate a banana? They don't grow here.
It's a process. An evolution. And IMO, it's headed in the right direction. |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Oct 17 2006 : 08:15:08 AM
Karlanee,
I just wanted to say "thanyou" for the link. I am finding many resources about 1-2 hours from my area.
Trina
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Oct 17 2006 : 07:34:36 AM
I think that on one hand this whole topic could be boiled down to local is best, but comercial organic is still better than conventional. But it's really not an easy topic. For example, I am a coffee freak. My kids know that if they want me out of bed before the 5 am alarm, they had better start the coffee going before they come in with a request. Coffee does not grown in the states, it has to be imported from Central/South America or Africa, so buying local is not an option. Since conventional grown coffee is one of the heaviest sprayed crops (along with bananas, grapes, berries, and potatoes) and the farming methods used are AWEFUL, I purchase fair trade organic coffee beans. Tomatoes, peaches, summer squash, greens, strawberries, pumpkins, sweet potatoes and watermelon grow quite well here and I buy them local in season (if I don't have enough of my own) and usualy go with out in the off season. I buy organic white milling wheat by the 50 lb bucket from Montana and have no problem with that since wheat does not grow in my area and as I grew up in Montana it's a little taste of home. I also buy some of MJ's products which deffinately are not local, but I feel good about eating them since they are from a small family run operation that is commited to the quality of their product.
Trina
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| DaisyFarm |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 11:31:34 AM
Let me start by saying I only believe about half of what I read (depending on the source), but I did read an article in a Vancouver newspaper last year that said most commercially grown potatoes have such a high concentration of pesticides, that they almost could be classified as a pesticide themselves.
Melanie - 13% ??? When will the powers that be ever wake up, that is criminal.
David Suzuki is brilliant and his foundation is one of a very few I will donate to.
Diane |
| mellaisbella |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 10:41:53 AM
Well girls...where do I start?...For those of you that are not familiar where I live, and what crop is the predominant one, I live on Prince Edward Island the smallest province in all of Canada...our main export is potatoes...and with those potatoes come vast amounts of pesticides and chemicals...the population of this province is 135,000 people..of these residents 13% die each year of cancer...hhmmmmm...quite a high amount considering that there aren't many people that live here....anyway....I'm rambling a bit..let me try to sum up and put a few pointers down.....there is a fabulous scientist David Suzuki that has a great challenge...the "30 buy local only" challenge....(organic if possible) it is fun to try and source out local products, maybe get off the beaten path and find some local growers!!!
My other thing is organic is great, but the line is getting vague (as some of you have already mentioned) we try to buy "fair trade organic" when it comes to sugar, coffee and chocolate...this ensures that the farmers that grew/harvested these products are given the fairest price/wage and no one is taken advantage of.............hope this all makes sense....great dialogue from all of you...we certainly need to keep our eyes open!!! cheers, Mella
mellaisbella "I wanna touch the earth, I want to break it in my hands, I want to grow something wild and unruly" |
| karlanee |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 09:37:19 AM
I'm with Manda. I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart either. The bad thing about big chains getting involved in the organic market is the likelihood of the requirements being laxed more and more as they already are. And one other person I think mentioned - it's just no longer truly organic. |
| karlanee |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 09:32:37 AM
Here in Oklahoma we have a wonderful coop, similar to other states. Not everything they sell is organic, but a large majority of it is. I do feel wonderful when I'm able to buy organic, LOCAL products. And I tend to be like one commenter above that said if it's not local, you almost feel like you're not really getting organic.
I know a lot of areas around the country have coops and also there is a growing movement for community sustainable agriculture programs. This is where local farmers will sell shares for a fee each month. Then each month you get a box of produce. It's kind of like investing in the local farm.
The best place to find local resources is http://www.localharvest.org/ |
| jpbluesky |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 04:31:06 AM
Tasha - my only guess is the word country in your post was accidentally misspelled!
In all of this great discussion, the big picture I see is that people are caring a lot more about what is actually in and sprayed onto their food, and that is a good thing for the population as a whole. If the market demands better quality, it will happen. Let's hope that the large companies that are getting on the bandwagon really improve their food quality and do not just market "organic and natural" to raise prices!
Peace |
| brightmeadow |
Posted - Oct 11 2006 : 04:22:10 AM
The scariest part of all about big stores like WalMart and others getting into the "organic" marketing concept is this paragraph from the Pollan article:
"Up to now, the federal organic standards have provided a bulwark against that pressure. Yet with the industrialization of organic, these rules are themselves coming under mounting pressure, and forgive my skepticism, but it's hard to believe that the lobbyists from Wal-Mart are going to play a constructive role in defending those standards from efforts to weaken them. Just this past year the Organic Trade Association used lobbyists who do work for Kraft Foods to move a bill through Congress that will make it easier to include synthetic ingredients in products labeled organic.
Organic is just a word, after all, and its definition now lies in the hands of the federal government, which means it is subject to all the usual political and economic forces at play in Washington. Inevitably, the drive to produce organic food cheaply will bring pressure to further weaken the regulations, and some of K Street's finest talent will soon be on the case. A few years ago a chicken producer in Georgia named Fieldale Farms persuaded its congressman to slip a helpful provision into an appropriations bill that would allow growers of organic chicken to substitute conventional chicken feed if the price of organic feed exceeded a certain level. That certainly makes life easier for a chicken producer when the price of organic corn is north of $5 a bushel, as it is today, and conventional corn south of $2. But in what sense is a chicken fed on conventional feed still organic? In no sense but the Orwellian one: because the government says it is."
If the word organic ceases to mean what we have come to expect, how will we as consumers be able to distinguish between organically grown food and "real" food?
The pressures that Wal-Mart exerts on government and its suppliers pretty much allow it to have its own way, which means increasing pressure on farmers to achieve economies of scale by going bigger and mechanizing. I don't see this as a good thing. Funny it is exactly what Rodale was predicting back in the early 70's.
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my blog at http://brightmeadowfarms.blogspot.com ,web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
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