| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Sep 18 2006 : 11:22:15 AM
I cannot seem to keep a sour dough starter! For someone who should be an old hand at this, it is rather embarassing  (I had my first starter at age 10!)
Ok, here's the problem. Since we have moved to NC, I have gone through 4 diffrent starters. Everything goes great for the first week or two, but then my starter developes a white fuzzy mould. I tried MJ's instructions of covering it with a cloth and my grandfathers method of a loose lid...both eventualy led to disaster. Since I use it every 24 hours, keeping it in the fridge is not an option. I would apreciate any help you ladies have to offer!
Trina
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| jo Thompson |
Posted - Oct 19 2006 : 9:03:04 PM
Thanks for the King Arthur suggestion, loved their website and products..... Should we suggest to MJ a sourdough starter kit????? jo
"friends don't let friends eat farmed salmon"
http://homepage.mac.com/thomja/Anchorage/PhotoAlbum14.html |
| Whimsy_girl |
Posted - Oct 19 2006 : 11:31:44 AM
Oh nothing is wrong with yeast, I just enjoyed letting the sourdough work it's magic on it's own.. not to mention everyone here seems to have such success in their natural endeavors that I feel like a phoney if I have to go dump extra stuff in there to make it work. After leaving my old house and living in the apartment,buying all my food instead of growing it, ordering pizza and taking the kids to dairy queen after ballet class..... I've lost a little part of my identity... and I guess I thought that if I could still make the stinkin bread the same way I wasn't a total loss. 
I can do it with yeast thats not really a problem, I guess I just like to pick things apart and figure it out and fix it instead of adding extra stuff.. but the yeast wont effect the taste... and now that I know that it rises MORE at higher elevation I am totally stumped... I'll call that number and see what I can see.
you can be oh so smart, or you can be oh so positive. I wasted a lot of time being smart I prefer being positive. |
| Phils Ann |
Posted - Oct 19 2006 : 10:28:32 AM
Bobbi, for what it's worth, there ARE complications in high altitude. I've got two sources to quote. 1st: Time-Life BREADS--At a high altitude, dough rises faster because there is less atmospheric pressure. For yeast breads, no recipe adjustment to altitude is necessary, but keep a watchful eye on the dough: It should not be allowed to increase in volume more than the cooking instructions specify. For baking soda and baking powder breads, use a bit less leavening at high altitudes than called for. Also, at an altitude of 3,000 feet or higher, the baking temperature for bread should be increased by 25 degrees F. The extra heat is needed to set the crust faster and prevent the bread from overrising during its last surge in the oven.
from King Arthur Flour WHOLE GRAIN BAKING: again for altitudes of 3,000 feet or more... Yeast Breads (I'm skimming so as not to repeat all from the book above). Whole grain yeast breads take time to be at their best; the bran in the flour needs time to absorb the dough's moisture. At high altitudes dough rises faster, so letting it rise three times before baking will give it the chance to fully develop its flavor. Try putting the dough in the refrigerator the first two times... You may choose to use less flour, depending on the air's humidity and the look of the dough.
I know you'd said your sourdough didn't rise, which of course isn't addressed here... or in my sourdough books-- when I looked for high altitude in the index, it wasn't there. I would urge you to call the King Arthur Flour Co. and ask them why. I've called with baking questions in the past and found them really helpful. 1-800-827-6836
Best wishes,
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
| Phils Ann |
Posted - Oct 19 2006 : 09:43:21 AM
Bobbi, what's wrong with yeast (unless, like Trina's son, you have an allergy). It's hard to have fun when you feel defeated, and maybe that high altitude is the problem. If I can find out anything about that, I'll get back to you. We're nearly at sea level here. Maybe 50 feet above.
XO,
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Oct 19 2006 : 09:05:02 AM
Bobbi,
I don't blaim you one bit. If I didn't have a son who had trouble digesting yeast products, I would just give up too...until I got homesick and wanted some of my Papa's sourdough pancakes.
Trina
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| Whimsy_girl |
Posted - Oct 19 2006 : 08:31:00 AM
Sigh.. I have given up. I went to the market and bought some yeast today. go ahead and throw rocks, I wont try to run. 
you can be oh so smart, or you can be oh so positive. I wasted a lot of time being smart I prefer being positive. |
| Phils Ann |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 11:35:14 AM
If you want a sourdough with whole grains, I've found a bit of yeast added helps--although, I realize that's not what we're aiming for. The sourdough "bible" I use is Nancy Silverton's "BREADS FROM LA BREA BAKERY", and if your library has it, there's so much to learn. It calls for committment: You have to build up that starter until it's got a lot of life, which means using a whole lot of flour, and it isn't economical when you do it only occasionally. She does give a shortcut for those of us who are not committed to making a daily batch of bread. Also, the pancake recipe helps to use up excess starter. As for the bread, it is the best, Mmmm-mmmm. I really like the whole grain, and make it into rolls which I freeze to keep on hand. Because her recipes are so precise, it really is easy-- as long as you follow directions. A lot of recipes call for an overnight long last rise, so baking happens after the bread warms up outside the fridge the next morning. There are hints for baking in different time frames, to make it possible with different schedules. She also gives the recipes for starters, incidentally--but as I have the old starter, the only one I've tried is a whole wheat starter--but it did work well.
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
| Whimsy_girl |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 10:25:05 AM
Well I just pulled out the loaves I baked as as I suspected, while they did rise a little bit more with the soda in them, it neutralized the sour so much that it doesn't taste like it's supposed to...
so I will beg of you again, a sourdough recipe that will rise without sacrificing taste!
B.
you can be oh so smart, or you can be oh so positive. I wasted a lot of time being smart I prefer being positive. |
| tziporra |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 09:56:48 AM
On a different starter topic -- my starter is never "sour". It rises beautifully and doesn't mold (but I only bake once a week, so it lives in the refrigerator), but it doesn't taste sour at all. I "grow" my own yeast, instead of using a purchased starter (but I'll check out the King Arthur's one, maybe). My English muffins and "sourdough" bread are just not sour at all!
Best,
Robin |
| Whimsy_girl |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 09:43:57 AM
My starter seems to be proofing just fine, but I am having a heck of a time getting the dough to rise.. same starter, same recipe, but in Montana it's just not responding.. I do it in the oven on warm to keep the draft off, and I have still been having a hard time, I am baking some as we speak that I added a little extra baking soda to just to get it to perk up a little, that worked some but the dough still didn't rise as much as it used to... I was wondering if that has something to do with being in a higher altitude and if thats the case, if anyone has a good recipe for sourdough that will actually rise when you live way up high in the roly poly sky.
you can be oh so smart, or you can be oh so positive. I wasted a lot of time being smart I prefer being positive. |
| karlanee |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 09:27:51 AM
I started MJ's sourdough starter last Wednesday. The recipe in the book says not to use it initially until day 7, when it is bubbly and smells sweetly sour. I still have until Wednesday to use it, but my starter is already bubbly and smelling sweetly sour. Last night when I fed it, the bubbles were going strong even after adding my ingredients.
Is the 7 day rule a hard and fast one, or is it possible that I can use it earlier? If this doesn't work, I'm going to go with the Baker's Catalogue one. Thanks for that reminder. I love their products at King Arthur. |
| LJRphoto |
Posted - Sep 21 2006 : 1:10:44 PM
I just thought I'd point out that the Ma'ona website actually is authored by a man-just to be fair to him. I love boys who cook! :)
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Sep 21 2006 : 10:45:16 AM
Usualy it is easy...atleast I thought so. Maybe the climate has something to do with it. When I started keeping doughs I was in Montana which is much cooler than where I am now. I had pretty good luck in Kentucky (we had ac there), but not so good in NC.
Trina
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| MamaHumbird |
Posted - Sep 21 2006 : 10:11:38 AM
I am getting ready at my next attempt at sourdough starter. I am using the recipe out of MJ's book and according to her account it doesn't seem like a big deal to keep going. I am wondering if the quality or brand of ingredients makes any difference. I know the first time I did it the only organic flour I had had just expired but I used it anyway & that batch wasn't even usable. So the next time I did it I went and bought fresh organic wheat flour which worked better. I have to admit that when I bake I don't usually use organic flour. MJ said just to lightly cover it with a towel. I used a wooden spoon and a glass mason jar. I am going to check out the website mentioned earlier with the crock but I am assuming that it is not the same type of starter as in MJ's book. What I guess I am trying to say is that when I read it in her book it seemed so easy. Yet there are many of us having difficulties. |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Sep 21 2006 : 06:27:12 AM
I checked out the blog, the method she describes is the way I usualy start mine. This last time I used MJ's recipie and while it worked nicely, it was a bit thinner than I prefer. I have also tried the potato starter, but always seem to get bugs in it before I have a chance to use it. Maybe I should stop getting the sourdough craving durring the warm months.
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| LJRphoto |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 5:33:40 PM
Hmmm, well, no. I haven't actually frozen any myself. I think I just read that you can do that. I can see how freezing it might kill the yeasts since they like a warm environment.
I found this fabulous blog... here is another great explanation of how the whole thing works and how you can make a "real" starter from scratch. http://maona.net/archives/2005/02/sourdough_start.php
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| Phils Ann |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 2:42:41 PM
Elizabeth, my starter also came from "The Baker's Catalogue"; King Arthur. I certainly can vouch for it's longevity. I did freeze some starter during one summer, as well as keep the crock in the refrigerator, and the frozen worked just fine. Have you frozen any, Laura? I have heard it doesn't always work, which is why I kept the refrigerated stash.
Oh, this cooler weather makes me ready to get it out!
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
| LJRphoto |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 2:21:36 PM
This is interesting. I'm going to ask around about wild grapes.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/getrecipe.php/id/R116
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 1:44:33 PM
Erica,
I have never heard anything about not using metal in sourdough. My papa (grandpa) has had the same started for almost 30 years and he uses a stainless steel spoon to stir it twice a day. On the other hand, I do know you shouldn't use metal in yougart or kiefer, so it is possable that the metal is damaging. I'll keep that in mind.
Elizabeth,
Thanks for the crock link. I have been looking for one of those! Since nobody local carries them new, I've been scouring antique shops, but a clean crock in good condition is selling for 50+ around here. I'm going to order me one of those!
Trina
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| candismom |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 1:27:40 PM
I got my starter and crock from www.kingarthurflour.com and Have been very pleased. In facted I made a loaf of bread today.
House smells good.
Hugs,
Elizabeth |
| flowerchild |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 09:21:55 AM
I read last night about how using any metal at all in contact with your starter can cause it to turn black or pink and have to be thrown out. Of course I read this AFTER I stirred my starter with a metal utensil (Augh!). So far it looks like it didn't do any damage. If you are using any metal- maybe that has something to do with it? Then again, as a complete novice to the whole breadmaking by scratch department- I could be completely wrong -.-
Good luck!
Erica |
| LJRphoto |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 09:15:34 AM
Why not just keep some of it in the freezer so that when you lose one you have another start ready to go?
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| bramble |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 08:01:43 AM
I have never been able to keep mine for very long ( sourdough and the friendship starters) and came to the conclusion that no matter how I store it, my environment is too humid and that there are too many air borne mold spores about. Maybe the east coast is just too humid? All you midwest and western girls should have no problem if this is the case(seems like the responses are proving this...)I will have to try the butter keeper idea Ann...sounds like a promising approach! I had all but given up with anything other than traditional type yeast breads.
with a happy heart |
| ArmyWifey |
Posted - Sep 20 2006 : 07:47:01 AM
I've never had black film on mine just starts to not smell "fruity" anymore after a bit. Are you feeding it daily?
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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| MamaHumbird |
Posted - Sep 19 2006 : 11:42:20 PM
I am glad to know that I am not the only one to have a problem witht this. I remember when I was a kid and grandma had a "friendship bread" starter that she kept in the fridge. That was my next attempt. Mine also did great the first week and then got a yucky black film on the top. I hope someone comes up with a good answer soon.
thanks,
Holly |
