| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ivmeer |
Posted - Oct 27 2005 : 09:36:12 AM
I'm going to vent for a minute: When you look up bread recipes on the Internet, all it seems to be able to give you is recipes for bread machines.  I don't own a bread machine and never will. What's the point of paying hundreds of dollars for what you can do for free with your oven and your two hands?
I made bread once, about a year and a half ago. It was a plain white bread recipe and it turned out beautifully. I have this booklet that I inherited from my late uncle from Fleischmann's Yeast that has about 80 pages of bread recipes. (I think it was one of those send-away deals.) It's where I got my white bread recipe.
Anyway, I'm interested in making multigrain bread. I'm not happy with any of the recipes in my bread recipe book and would like to modify/create one. Normally I wouldn't be this skittish about creating a recipe, but I know that modifying a baking recipe can have disastrous results, so I'm asking for help.
I specifically want something I can bake in bread pans and slice for sandwiches, hopefully a 2-loaf recipe that I can freeze 1 loaf while I use the other. I want a recipe that's non-dairy, because I keep kosher and want something that I can eat with sandwich meats. I want a bread that's got a variety of different whole grains with different textures and flavors. I'm not necessarily interested in making a 100% whole wheat bread, and would be willing to combine whole wheat flour with unbleached white flour.
I've currently got in my fridge and cupboards: whole wheat flour, unbleached white flour, yellow corn meal, oatmeal (both quick and old fashioned), flaxseed, sunflower seeds, sesame seeds, brown rice, uncooked whole wheatberries, bulgur, honey, pancake syrup (not 100% maple, I've got a bottle of Mrs. Butterworth's), light Karo, light brown sugar. I'd be willing to buy stuff, too, like molasses or millet.
The main questions I've got are:
1. for a sandwich loaf, how many cups of flour do you use per loaf? I'm assuming one packet of yeast per loaf.
2. If you add things like whole grains and seeds, should you reduce the amount of flour you use? I'm assuming I should cook wheatberries and rice before adding them, since they're not chewable without cooking, but what about millet? Millet can get really mushy and gross if it's overcooked. Should I par-boil it or cook it "al dente?" I'm assuming oats should just be added uncooked. I'm leaning towards using the old fashioned oats for their coarse texture. (I only use the quick oats for cookies and apple crisp, and the old fashioned oats for cereal).
So here's what I'm leaning toward using for a 2-loaf recipe, based on combining 2 recipes, looking at the proportions that you usually use for bread, substituting seeds for nuts and 1 type of cooked grain for another, adjusting for proportion, etc. This recipe is completely experimental and has not been tried yet, so all you new bread-bakers out there, don't take this and run with it until I trial and error it. It might be a disaster.
For all the die-hard bread bakers out there, if anything here looks like a recipe for disaster, please tell me.
Okay. Here goes.
Amanda's tentative multi-grain bread recipe
3 cups unbleached white flour
3 cups whole wheat flour
1 cup yellow cornmeal
2 packets yeast
2 t salt
2 c water
2 T honey
2 T molasses
1/4 c vegetable oil
1/2 c cooked brown rice
1/2 c cooked wheatberries
1/2 c cooked millet
1/2 c uncooked oats plus extra for sprinkling
1/4 c flaxseed plus extra for sprinkling
1/4 c sunflower seeds plus extra for sprinkling
1/4 c sesame seeds plus extra for sprinkling
Combine flours, cornmeal, yeast and salt. Heat water, honey, molasses & vegetable oil in saucepan. Stir into dry ingredients. Add cooked grains and seeds. Knead on lightly floured surface. Let rise. Punch down, divide into 2 equal parts, make 2 roll-and-pinch style loaves, put in pans, sprinkle with oats and seeds, let rise again, bake at 375 for whatever time it takes to be done (I'm thinking somewhere between a half an hour and 45 minutes).
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| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BlueEggBabe |
Posted - Oct 31 2005 : 10:14:33 AM
Amanda,
I just tried the best multi grain bread today in a whole round loaf from www.eccepanis.com bakeries.It was called Multigrain Boule.
I will list the ingredients in order of most to least. Perhaps that will help you to reinvent the recipe you are looking for:
water
unbleached wheat flour
barley flour
coarse whole wheat flour
honey
barley malt syrup
cracked wheat
THEN:
contains less than 2% of each of the following:
flax seeds
rolled oats
wheat bran
wheat germ
bulgar wheat
rice flour
sugar
salt
yeast
www.feedsackfarmgirls.blogspot.com
"If more of us valued good food, cheer and song above hoarded gold,the world would be a merrier place."
J.J.R.Tolkien |
| ivmeer |
Posted - Oct 30 2005 : 07:53:30 AM
It did turn out heavy. I'm going back to the drawing board with this recipe, maybe reducing the proportion of cornmeal and/or whole wheat flour and adding gluten flour like Aunt Jenny said. My husband likes it, though, so we'll be eating it for a while. |
| Horseyrider |
Posted - Oct 29 2005 : 03:52:52 AM
Amanda, if you make it, let us know how it turns out! I also love to have 'things' in my bread, cakes, rice, whatever; plain is boring. I love the texture!
Also, I don't think bread machines are always a total waste. I have one that my mom gave me years ago, and sometimes it saved me. Today I need to bake bread or we won't have any, but I want to go do errands and run around, take a country drive to see the leaves, etc. It's hard to tend to bread when you're gone, but the bread machine can do it. I don't like the hole in the end piece, but it does at least put bread on the table.
I wish I hadn't lent the manufacturer's directions to an acquaintance years ago; I don't remember the order things go in! Now I'm not sure what I'll do. |
| ivmeer |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 07:33:55 AM
I didn't try the rice and pecan bread. Yes, sandwich bread is bread baked in a loaf pan.
OK, so taking the suggestions into consideration, I've come up with this:
Amanda's revised tentative multi-grain bread recipe
3 cups unbleached white flour
3 cups whole wheat flour
1 cup yellow cornmeal
2 packets yeast
2 t salt
2 1/2 c water
1/4 c honey
1/4 c molasses
6 T vegetable oil
1/2 c cooked brown rice
1/2 c cooked wheatberries
1/2 c cooked millet
1/2 c uncooked oats plus extra for sprinkling
1/4 c flaxseed plus extra for sprinkling
1/4 c sunflower seeds plus extra for sprinkling
1/4 c sesame seeds plus extra for sprinkling
I'm going to give it a whirl, and if it comes out weird, I'll bring it back to the drawing board for more suggestions. If it comes out good, I'll let you ladies know, too.
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| prairiemaid |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 07:23:54 AM
Did you try the wild rice and pecan recipe?
Using cooked rice will help keep the bread moist.
What is "sandwich" bread? Does that mean cooked in a loaf pan? Sorry not familiar.
Call me old fashioned. |
| ivmeer |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 07:04:37 AM
Margaret, I actually combined a few recipes to get the one that I came up with. I started with a "wild rice and pecan" loaf but substituted different grains for the wild rice and seeds for the nuts. Then I adjusted the proportions to make it the same as a sandwich bread recipe (the rice and pecan was not a sandwich loaf). Then I subsituted whole wheat flour for half of the white flour. Then I brought it here for tweaking.
I don't really want to use 7-grain cereal because I don't want toasted and/or puffed grains. I want the texture of chewy, steamed grains. |
| prairiemaid |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 07:00:32 AM
Just wanted to add, if you are using dry cornmeal, it will suck up a lot of the moisture. So either add more liquid to compensate or cook the cornmeal first?
Call me old fashioned. |
| prairiemaid |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 06:56:07 AM
I agree that bread machines are a waste of time and money! For one thing, they don't make bread like doing it by hand and the other thing is what am I going to do with ONE loaf? When I make bread, I'm MAKING BREAD. LOL! I can understand if you have a problem kneading, then I'd rather have a bread machine than go buy bread.
I've looked over your recipe and I'm just going to throw this out there. Why not keep it really simple and use 7 grain cereal?
It's my experience that a whole wheat or multi grain bread tends to be on the drier side of white bread. It's good to use some of the ingredients you have listed to help keep it moist like honey instead of sugar, oil instead of margarine or butter. Instead of water, you could try potato water. My advice is to start with your favorite white bread recipe. Mix your liquid ingredients including the yeast (after you have activated it, if you are using traditional), stir in 1/2 to 3/4 cup 7 grain cereal, then 1/2 the flour for the recipe being all whole wheat, then finish off with the white flour. If you want to try it without the white flour, you'll have to add about a TBSP of gluten.
I also think that if you are going to the trouble of making bread, why not make as many as your oven can bake at once? Of course, I'd test the recipe first before I made that many but once I know it's good, I'd make at least 6 loaves and put them in the freezer.
Good luck! Let us know what you do!
Call me old fashioned. |
| ivmeer |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 06:54:09 AM
So, Aunt Jenny, maybe I'll add more honey and molasses and water to lighten it. Why gluten flour? Isn't that only necessary if you use 100% whole wheat flour? |
| Aunt Jenny |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 06:44:07 AM
I agree that there didn't seem to be enough wet ingredients and it seemed the bread would be real heavy in your recipe. Lots of yummy ingredients like those would for sure wiegh it down. I agree that 1 Tbsp of yeast would be enough. Be sure to add gluten flour to lighten it up too. 1/4 cup would be plenty.
My recipe for whole wheat bread (and I do add other grains) this is for 3 loaves is:
2 1/2 cups lukewarm water
2 Tbsp of dry yeast
1/2 cup oil
1/2 cup honey (or maple syrup or mollasses)
3 cups of flour ( a mixture of white and whole wheat is okay)
1/3 cup of gluten flour
1/2 cup quick oats
1/4 cup corn meal
more flour to get to right consistancy...about 3 cups more depending on what extra grains you add. I like to add a tablespoon of sesame seed too.
follow basic bread recipe. Dissolve the yeast in 1/2 cup of the water to start and when it has proofed add the rest of the water, the honey and oil and go from there. Good luck!!
Jenny in Utah
Put all your eggs in one basket..and then watch that basket!! Mark Twain |
| ivmeer |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 06:39:27 AM
Thank you, Mary Ann. I really wanted something that had a lot of chewy grains in it like millet and wheatberries, Do you think I need more water in the recipe? Do you think adding the extra yeast will make it rise more? |
| Horseyrider |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 05:07:01 AM
Personally, I think that's going to weigh like a brick, and not have the loft you want for sandwiches. And probably not enough liquid for that much hard stuff, and you'll need more time for the second rise in a bread that dense.
Oh, and when you make two loaves, you don't double the yeast. A tablespoon for two loaves is plenty.
But if you could reduce some of the stuff like the wheatberries, millet, etc, you could probably have a dense bread with a texture like pumpernickel. Sliced thin, it could be really good.
I bake a similar loaf. The recipe is one I got from a Taoist bakery many years ago.
Whole Wheat Bread from The Tao
2 cups warm water (110 degrees in your bowl)
1 TBS fresh dry yeast
3 TBS sugar or honey
2 TBS oil
1/4 cup sesame seeds
1/4 cup sunflower seeds
3 cups bread flour, or 2 3/4 cups all purpose flour and 1/4 cup gluten flour
1 TBS salt
3 to 3 1/2 cups whole wheat flour
In a large bowl, dissolve yeast and sugar. When bubbly, add oil, sesame seeds and sunflower seeds. Add white flour and beat for two minutes until ropy and smooth.
Add salt and enough remaining whole wheat flour to make a stiff dough. Knead until smooth and elastic, about ten minutes.
Form dough into a ball and place in an oiled bowl, turning once to coat. Cover with a cloth and let rise in a warm, draft free place until doubled in bulk, about 1 1/2 to two hours.
Punch the dough down and let it rest for ten minutes. Shape into two loaves and place into two oiled loaf pans. Let rise again until amost doubled, 45 minutes to an hour.
Brush tops with beaten egg and sprinkle with more sesame seeds and sunflower seeds. Bake in a preheated 400 degree oven for 25-30 minutes, until loaf is golden and it sounds hollow when tapped on the bottom.
I hope you enjoy!
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