| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MsCwick |
Posted - Apr 19 2007 : 1:38:08 PM
Five years ago, an exBF and I found a really super cute puppy on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere in the snow. Well, of course I just had to have it. My dad said no more animals, but the guy was a real deadbeat, and I ended up keeping the dog, which turned out to be a Blue Tick Coonhound. That was five years ago., She will be 6 this fall. Two years ago, Maggie wanted to play with some week old kittens, and killed three of them. Then a few months ago our neighbor who has two wonderful and obedient dogs came to our house, and Maggie didn't want his dogs on HER property, so she chased and faught at the one until she drew blood. This has happened maybe 4 times. Maggie is supposed to stay on a zip line because she will run away and her hunting instincts take her very far away and she comes back all cut up and covered in ticks and a huge MESS. So she has been on a zip line about 75 feet long her whole life. She can get onto the porch and under a few trees and she's got quite a yard just to herself. If maggie breaks loose and escapes, she will not come to me and plays hard to get. She has a terrible "want" for freedom. This morning, she pushed the storm door open and got loose. So I went to town not worrying about it, and came home about an hour later and found one of my neighbors baby piglets dead in my horses' pasture. They aren't too big, maybe 20 pounds or so. So I call my husband and he calls Amanda, the neighbor who works for us sometimes, and tells her. She called her husband who was home at the time and he went looking for the other pig and it was dead in his backyard. So I called my husband back in tears and said, it's time for Maggie to go. I first said to have her put to sleep because she's becoming more and more aggressive, but I'm not so sure she wouldn't just make some hunter guy a good coon dog. I'm worried that when my other neighbor, the one with the nice dog, when his cows start having calves in the spring that Maggie may have a taste for blood and debilitated animals, and I couldn't bare the thought of her killing his calves that he actually makes money off of. The kittens were bad, fighting another dog several times, was worse, but now killing things???
I've never NOT had a dog, and I know I want to get another, but I don't want to rush into it and make ANOTHER mistake.
Any advice? consolement, ideas, anything will help. I knowmy husband will be glad to see the dog go, but he wants something huge like a sheppherd or a malamute or a husky.
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cinnamongirl |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 5:14:43 PM
All I can say is you have made a decision and now you have to live with it whether right or wrong. Where is the dog now? |
| KYgurlsrbest |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 5:00:56 PM
Thanks for not getting too upset, Christine. I'm not trying to be preachy, just passing on experience in an area where I've actually had it. In our tri state area, our "no kill" shelters only pull from shelters, and do not accept strays or abandoned dogs--except on the death of the owner, and maybe not even then. While that may sound rough, I see their point... I think, anymore, you'll find that because of the pet overpopulation, even though there are rescues and no-kill shelters for a gazillion dogs and cats (and even birds!), they are just completely overrun, and while they want to save them all, they simply can't. Then there are those "no kill" shelters that are really more about "collecting and hording" but that's another story for another day....Anyhoo, they rely frequently on foster homes, and most of them max out their own personal credit accounts. Like most volunteer organizations, you lose dedicated fosters more often than not...it's rough to keep relying on folks and they do get burnt out. It sounds like to me that the shelter you went to may have adopted (as either an organization) or fall under the state regulatory issues, the "abandonment" codes in the law.
"In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt." Margaret Atwood
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| ThymeForEweFarm |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 4:10:11 PM
My husband is the animal control officer in our small town. You'd think in a town of 70 residents there wouldn't be many problems, but there are. I dealt with the last drop off. It cost the tax payers in town over $500 to take care of the dog. Unfortunately, the owner of the dog isn't going to do the right, responsible thing and pay the bill unless the town drags him into court. He can be cited for cruelty to animals, neglect and abandonment.
There's a cat that needs to be caught. She was dumped at the former ACO's house, probably by someone who thought it was still his responsibility. She has a sore under her neck that needs to be shaved, cleaned, maybe stitched, and she needs an antibiotic. The former ACO is working on catching her. If she's turned in to my husband the town will have to pay for another irresponsible owner's bill. I know where she came from. They'll deny her.
Dumping an animal isn't fair to anyone. I'm sorry this was rough on your Cristine, but your dad is right. Why should your problem be forced on someone else without even a note or phone call? What if the dog had suffered more and died before she was found? That would have been rough on the dog and the people you dumped her on. If you can have this thread pulled you might want to think seriously about doing it. It's an admission of guilt. Good luck. I do sincerely hope this works out. Offering to pay the vet bill might help.
Robin
www.outdoorwriter.wordpress.com
www.thymeforewe.com
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| Love-in-a-Mist |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 4:00:38 PM
I've worked at the humane society. Most people that work there are burned out just like CNA's at nursing homes. They turn hard and gruff. Everyone was out to get money and belittle the public as much as they could. It was like they were getting revenge for the animals, being as rude as possible, scaring people into handing over more money.
Sorry you are going through so much turmoil.
http://love-in-a-mist-shannon.blogspot.com/ |
| primjillie |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 3:45:18 PM
Christine, I don't think you understand some of the other's points. You dropped off a potentially ill, potentially dangerous dog because you didn't want to deal with her. It makes it much easier for a shelter to know the history of the dog if they want to adopt it out. They shouldn't have to call you to get the history. You seem to be blaming the shelter for not doing what you should have been responsible for. I don't know about other cities, but here in Sacramento, there is a fee for dropping off an animal to help offset their upkeep. I still think you should have taken her to the vet first, and if there was a serious health or behavior problem, you would have had the option of putting her to sleep. I am sorry you are going through this. |
| MsCwick |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 1:29:29 PM
I do completely understand your point Jonni. I'm not completely unaware of the problems concerning animal population, control, shelters, and the sad fact of euthanasia. I would like to add that this was a PRIVATE shelter, not a state run one, and they do NOT euthanise. I do understand that not euthanising puts quite a burden on them, as far as caring for every last animal that is relinquished or abandoned. Part of the reason I'm frustrated with the situation is that if they're worried about rabies, she had her tag from last fall. If they wanted to call us to find out if we LOST our dog, or if we dropped it off, if we wanted to come get it, the number was on her tag!!!!, but they jump the gun because of other careless people, and had to "contact the authorities"...whatever that means. I'm not sure if that's just a report or pressing charges, but still, the point of shelters, especially a no kill shelter isn't to turn away animals because it's convenient for them, I thought it was to take in animals at the cost of keeping them until they find a home either here on earth or otherwise. If someone else had dropped a dog off unfortunately, I may take your side and condemn the other person, but it was my decision and my huband's actions, and we'll deal with it as it comes. |
| KYgurlsrbest |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 12:36:39 PM
I'm not trying to have a tone here, so please understand that--I'm going to respond to what you said about shelters...I want to say that actually having worked at an animal shelter for 2 years in Kentucky, my experience with this is that, our state laws term it as "abandonment" and it is a fineable offense (at least in Kentucky). Different states have different rules, obviously.
This is a good thing in the event that people frequently dropped dogs off overnite that were ill, or malnourished, severely abused or at deaths door...We had not "history" and then would place them in the regular population because we didn't have the space for quarantine...that opened the rest of perfectly wonderful dogs to illness, behavior issues, etc...We actually installed a camera to video people dropping animals off, that way prosecution was easier. Basically, from a shelter standpoint, if you drop an animal off without filling out appropriate relinquish paperwork, not only does the shelter NOT get a fee for your unwanted animal (to care, house, and hopefully adopt them out), they take on risk, and push another equally deserving dog to the front of the line to be euthanised.
Sorry, but that's the truth (from most shelter's view points)
"In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt." Margaret Atwood
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| MsCwick |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 12:21:34 PM
I just think it's kind of pathetic to get in trouble with the law for trying to do something humane. If Josh had shot her we'd be frowned upon for that too...What are shelters for if you can't drop off a pet in need of help during a time of desperation??
I really appreciate all your support. Sometimes it's hard for me to say my dad was wrong, but this was definiety one of those times.
Cristine |
| primjillie |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 11:10:03 AM
I think it is hard to not reply when you feel strongly about something (like pets). Do you walk away or do you try to give advice gently? It is a hard decision and you just hope someone benefits and learns something. I've learned so much by reading other people's advice and learning from their wisdom and knowledge. I also think when you post on a public forum, you do open yourself up a little to advice (even though sometimes it is unwanted). |
| simpler1773 |
Posted - Apr 25 2007 : 06:48:50 AM
What a hard time for you Cristine (((hugs))).
It really bothers me when people say "you should have done this, or that". Hind site is always 20/20 and when emotions are running high, it's hard to know what to do. You can always say, "next time you might want to try this or that", but to tell you what you should or should not have done is just plain hurtful to you.
(((hugs))) Hang in there.
~Ricki~
You can't pour anything out of an empty vessel, take care of yourself! |
| MsCwick |
Posted - Apr 24 2007 : 7:06:01 PM
Oh I definitely understand his point too, but he has come down on me pretty hard. Hindsight is 20/20. After the piglet massacre, I called DH crying, and said we should have her put to sleep, of course, he acts like no big deal, and is like, Ok...
If I would have known then what I know now, I could have made a better decision.... |
| primjillie |
Posted - Apr 24 2007 : 09:29:08 AM
I'm not trying to take sides, but I see your dad's point. What if your dog was so sweet at the shelter and they adopted her out, not knowing her problems? What if she bit and seriously hurt someone? That is why I questioned why you took her to the shelter and not the vet first to see if something was wrong with her. I know you were just trying to protect your family, but you might have set yourself up for some problems, it sounds like. Sometimes, it just more humane for everyone to have her put to sleep. That is hard for me to say, since I am a hard core dog lover and truly believe dogs should be part of a family and treated as such. I hope you get things worked out. |
| MsCwick |
Posted - Apr 24 2007 : 09:08:31 AM
Oh, I appreciate all of your kind and encouraging words. It's so nice to have a "family" of people who WILL support and not judge me. (sometimes find that hard to come by at home)
Here is yet another update on the situation. When this dog this happened lastweek, right after she killed the pigs and was still at home, I tried really hard to get in touch with my dad because I know he is rational and thinks things out thoroughly, and always tried to make the best decision. Well, he was out of town for work, and his cell phone was dead. My dad really liked Maggie a lot, so I knew he was the one to talk to, but just couldn't get up with him. So I called his friend Tammy and left her a message. I was trying to figure out what to do. Well, in the heat of the moment, and being scared for the neighbors baby, and the other neighbors calves, I asked Josh to being her to a shelter. I intentionally wasn't home when this happened. He said her symptons were worse, and wanted to just shoot her to end the misery, but his brother, my BIL, convinced him to bring her to the shelter to give her a chance. Well, when my dad got back, and I told him what happened, he was saddened, but the next day he was very disappointed in my decision, and called the shelter to "check" on her condition. The woman there informed him that she had to get the law involved because it's illegal to drop a dog off and what she called a private shelter. Her point was that if the dog had rabies and bit an employee, that we would be liable. Since I didn't go to the shelter I don;t know if there was signs posted not to drop animlals off. The stupid lady could have read her rabies tag from last fall which I scratched our phone number onto the back of, and talked to us, but instead, now we have a whole nother set of problems...and now my dad takes the womans side and said I was being irresponsible and should have thought more about the repurcussions of dropping off an aggressive and violent animal.
Am I just lucky or what?
*SIGHS*
Cristine |
| primjillie |
Posted - Apr 24 2007 : 08:55:52 AM
I'm not sure I understand your post. Was she sick? Do you tell the people at the shelter of her symtoms? If she had rabies or something contagious, they need to know. Wouldn't it have been better to take her to the vet to get checked and if necessary, had her put to sleep to stop her suffering? I guess I'm not sure why you took her to the shelter with those symptoms, instead of the vet. I am sorry for what happened - my dogs are my family and I can't imagine having to deal with something like that. |
| Annab |
Posted - Apr 24 2007 : 05:40:33 AM
I'm so sorry about your dog woes. you are better off if she spent most of her time tied out and you constantly worrying
The two dogs I have ever owned were like children.....although I am a huge proponent of training anything that lives with you and raising it to have its manners!
I'd reserach the type of dog you want then see how it matches up with your lifestyle.
Hunting dogs need to run and to trying to break them of this does an injustice. Was your dog spayed??? Sometimes the roaming can be curtailed when they are "fixed".
We have a friend who recently got a Brittany spaniel. They live in an apartment situation and it drives them crazy whenever Callie tries to "swim" in her water bowl. She's just doing what's natural....and again is better suited for running after hunted quarry and retrieving in the water. My Belgains were bred for sheep herding, so it's in their nature to "herd" and run after small quick moving things but not kill.
this next go round too, if you do decide to get another dog, you'll be able to learn from past mistakes.
We lost our dog of 8 yers last summer due to a goof I made when Abby was a puppy. she was terribly afraid of loud noises and was always running away too. It's a sick feeling. I still beat myself up. and we live on 13 acres and are surrounded by woods. Now with this new pup (5 months ) Jasmine is fearless, and rather than turn away from someting scary, she stands her ground and investigates or just listens. We are into the second round of obedience training, and we'll continue after this as well. Jasmine also has many friends both human and 4 footed, so when we walk, i'm not constantly holding my breath afraid she will attack another person's dog. Again, another lesson learned the hard way.
As far as the symptoms go for Maggie. I'd have to guess heat stress/ heat stroke If she had been running hard, it would have taked a while to really cool back down to normal.
and I'd echo love-in-a-mist Spend good money on a good dog trainer and you'll never regret it. It does take time and a ton of patience
I'm sad and relieved for you at the same time so sorry
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| blueroses |
Posted - Apr 23 2007 : 11:37:38 AM
Christine,
So sorry to hear of the problems and so sad for Maggie. I hope she wasn't poisoned, but it sure sounds like it. Hugs to you.
"You cannot find peace...by avoiding life."
Virginia Woolfe |
| Libbie |
Posted - Apr 23 2007 : 07:50:36 AM
(((((HUGS!))))
XOXO, Libbie
"All through the long winter, I dream of my garden. On the first day of spring, I dig my fingers deep into the soft earth. I can feel its energy, and my spirits soar..." - Helen Hayes |
| westernhorse51 |
Posted - Apr 22 2007 : 05:43:48 AM
I know exactly how you feel. We had a beautiful, wonderful, loving Akita that would (I feel) give his life for me. BUT not for anyone else. He bite my husband pretty bad & we had to give him up. I wasn't home & both my husband & daughter were really frightened & I understood 100% but it broke my heart & I cried for MONTHS. Its extermly hard but sometimes you have to do it. Im so sorry for you.
she selects wool and flax and works with eager hands Prov.31:13 |
| simpler1773 |
Posted - Apr 21 2007 : 8:45:14 PM
No judgements, just great big (((hugs)))!!!!
~Ricki~
You can't pour anything out of an empty vessel, take care of yourself! |
| Love-in-a-Mist |
Posted - Apr 21 2007 : 5:36:33 PM
I am so sorry for your loss Christine. Not to be mean or cruel, but I think it happened for the best. I have gone through my dog biting people and having to put him down. Also I have tried to take other peoples problem dogs and help them, but I never knew exactly what to do. They have all caused me alot of heartache. That's why I decided to go through a school to become a dog trainer. Now I see all my mistakes and should have dones.
It would have taken you many hours of positive training to get her to come back to you consistantly. And I doubt you would ever be able to trust her around small animals. Mostly her problems came from not enough exercise physically or mentally. I'm not trying to make you feel guilty at all! Hunting dogs were bred for alot of stamina and it was common for them to go miles and miles everyday. Something that is just not realistic for most owners. Have you ever heard the saying a tired dog is a good dog? It really is true.
I know people that have had dogs their whole life (like me) don't usually feel the need to spend money on obedience classes, but they have changed my life with my dogs and I have watched other people change too. When you get a new dog I highly highly recommend going to a positive reinforcement dog trainer it is worth the $100. Your life will be so much easier. Oh yeah, Husky type dogs usually have a stronger prey drive than most dogs (they are closer to the wolf) and are known to be cat killers. I never thought about it much until the neighbors husky broke his chain and came to our house. He almost killed my cat right in front of me and I couldn't stop him. I was hitting him and thought he was going to bite my hand if I grabbed the cat. His owner was right there the whole time too and couldn't do nothing, luckily my cat found a hole in the wood pile and the owner kicked the dog at the same time. The same dog has also killed the neighbors chickens, and the other neighbors kittens.
I second, the no one here is judging you. You did the best you could do. I'm truly sorry.
http://love-in-a-mist-shannon.blogspot.com/ |
| Phils Ann |
Posted - Apr 21 2007 : 3:41:41 PM
Cristine, ((((HUGS)))). What a rough experience. I agree, you've done your very best.
XO,
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
| cinnamongirl |
Posted - Apr 21 2007 : 07:45:48 AM
Oh I am so sorry Christine we are not here to judge you it is not our place. I am sorry for the loss of your pet I understand as I have lost pets and have had to put some down when really ill and dying. We are connected to our pets. Again I am so sorry. |
| Bluewrenn |
Posted - Apr 20 2007 : 10:38:07 PM
Could Maggie have gotten rabies? Perhaps from something she killed? You might want to ask the shelter to have a vet look at her just in case...
My Homesteading Journal http://toomyvara.livejournal.com
My craft journal http://bluewrenn.livejournal.com
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| Alee |
Posted - Apr 20 2007 : 9:43:11 PM
Cristine-
First of all a big Farmgirl hug! {Hugs} I know it was a really hard decision for you to make. I know I said it before, but I think you are a wonderful person for adopting her in the first place.
Since she was getting in trouble with your neighbors, and it sounds like she wasn't completely happy- I think you did the right thing. And since you took her to a no-kill shelter you don't have to worry about her having a time limit on her stay there.
Also if you have a neighbor that is possibly poisoning your dog then that is a whole different scary situation.
If you don't mind me throwing in my unsolicited advice, I would let your local Sherriff know that your dog was acting like she could have been poisoned. Be honest with him and let him know that she was an escape artist and you have since surrendered her so that a more suitable home could be found. If it does turn out that she was poisoned (the shelter will be dealing with it) it might help him to know what area she roamed in so they can narrow down a culprit.
{Hugs}
Alee
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| MsCwick |
Posted - Apr 20 2007 : 9:31:48 PM
Well, here's the rest of the story...and it's no more pleasant than the first part. After I posted on here, I went outside and did some chores, and put Maggie back on her line. This line I speak of is a 65' zip line from trea to telephone pole on which she has about 25 feet on both sides, so about a 50 by 75 area. When I got her back on her line, she was totally out of breath, and slobbering, and panting, seemed kinda normal. About 2 hours later she was litterally vibrating, with long strands of slobber, and looking absolutely terrified. Well, I called DH and he was busy, so I stayed on here, and pondered what to do. She got worse, so I tried feeding her, adn when she walked up to her food bowl and accidentally bumped it with her paw/claw, it scared her to death. So I fed her her last meal, and told her I loved her and left. I couldn't stand to deal with the situation, DH came home a while later, and took her to a no kill shelter. I don't knwo if she was poisoned, or what, but he said she was much worse than what I described. We had the same thing happend to a Boxer mix last year. All after a crappy neighbor has a problem with us.
So we are dogless now, and it feels a lot better than worrying and wondering. I hope no one thinks I'm a real hoohah for doing all that, but...well...God can judge me for that....
Thanks for the support,
Cristine :( |
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