| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Jan 03 2012 : 11:43:13 AM
So, DH and I have decided to take the next step towards sufficiency and purchase a dairy animal. We decided on goats because they require less space (and food) than a cow and they seem to be easier to come by here. Sure there are listings on CL but I don't really know where to begin and the "local experts" I know of are breeders and really attached to their chosen breed so I don't think I'd necessarily get unbiased answers to my questions. Hopefully you gals can shed some light on things I need to be aware of, or what breeds I should look for?
~I want high production- While I don't need the 3 to 5 gallons that a cow provides, I do have a large family and I'm not forseeing a mini being able to keep up demand unless I have 3 or 4 of them.
~I want a flavor close to cow milk- fresh milk wont do any good if I can't get anyone to drink it after all.
~I want milk for drinking and cheese making mainly. As I understand it goat milk doesn't have the fat content to make butter.
~I have NO plans to show, and I'm not picky about color. I just want production.
I've always like the look of nubians and La manchas, but I don't know anything about them other than how cute their ears (or lack of ears) are.
Once I've narrowed down a breed or a couple of breeds what do I look for in a goat? I assume good temperament, good teat anatomy and placement. Anything else?
What inspections/tests/vaccinations should I demand before purchase, and what should I do myself? What maintenance/grooming equipment/milking supplies do I have to buy to get started?
I have horses (goats will be housed with the horses), geese and ducks, and I'm home all day, do I have to get two or would a girl bond with my other animals?
Would I be better off with one full sized caprine, or a couple of minis? What should my priority be in my nanny search? currently in milk and bred? not bred? with a kid? pregnant and not yet in milk?
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Farmtopia |
Posted - Jan 12 2012 : 7:31:27 PM
Hi Jen! Good for you! Hope you get your dream property! One other note I have to add to the already great advice--goat milk DOES NOT at all taste like cow milk, so definitely try it. Some people have said it's "an acquired taste," and I've had goat milk that is downright "gamey," depending on what the goat has eaten (wild garlic, for example, will definitely flavor goat milk AND cow milk)....so try the milk. At the same time, goat milk makes really great goat cheese ;)
Jersey, Guersneys, and Dexters are great cows for the small family farm.
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| tangledthreads |
Posted - Jan 07 2012 : 7:44:10 PM
I was coming on here to ask about goats. Great information, I will pass onto my girlfriend who is wanting to buy a dairy goat. Thanks!
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(¸.•´ (¸.•´Michelle Farmgirl #85
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| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Jan 05 2012 : 7:41:37 PM
Ladies, I may moving (God-willing) to a much more homesteady area, so I will have so many more options in how and where I can get quality dairy buddies :D (P.S. There's a built in milk parlour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
| artfulsister |
Posted - Jan 04 2012 : 8:29:59 PM
Hello Jen, Fabulous thread! I am very interested in getting some goats one day, and your post puts up such great questions! The answers are great too!
Hugs,
Terri
Every day is a new opportunity for joy! |
| Lieberkim |
Posted - Jan 04 2012 : 12:25:34 PM
I have Nubians and LOVE them. They are called the Jersey of the goat world because of their high fat/cream content. Excellent for making yoghurt, cheese, butter, ice cream, etc. My goats are very easy to work with. They're almost like dogs, following me around and demanding their loving and attention. They don't give as much milk as some breeds. I won't keep anything that gives less than a gallon a day. As first fresheners they've given me about 3/4 gallon a day and then the next years it improves. My girls are giving me 1 - 1 1/2 gallons a day each. It works out to a lot of milk. We get milk, yoghurt, some cheeses (I'm still learning) and ice cream thus far. And when 2 are in milk at the same time I'm drowning in milk and share with my dogs and cats etc (if I had pigs I'd do that too). I'm also planning on starting to make goats milk soap.
Goats need company. So I recommend two goats. Sometimes they'll be content with a friend of another species but sometimes not so just to be safe get two. Rule of thumb is one ton of hay per year, per goat. I dry land the goats I'm milking because the wrong plants can taint the milk. You also need to get grain that won't taint the milk. The milk should taste as good as anything else. It's mostly a matter of what they eat and how you handle the milk. Get the milk cold FAST. I filter the milk and then put it in a bucket of water with ice in the fridge to get it cold fast. So many people have told me that my milk is the best they've ever tasted so it must be working!!! :)
Sorry I tend to ramble when I get on the subject of my goats. If I can assist in anyway just let me know. I'm still pretty much a newbie but I can share what I have learned.
Excuse the mess & the noise, my children are making happy memories |
| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Jan 04 2012 : 12:13:17 PM
Thanks Sherrye
I still want a jersey (or dexter) most of all. A cow share would really make the feed cost less of an obstacle. I can anticipate going through 5 gallons a week for my family, but more than that I will be struggling to get rid of it all.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
| sherrye |
Posted - Jan 04 2012 : 08:32:06 AM
i agree with the girls. if you get a goat you need two. now after looking at your post again you need 4 goats.LOL it takes a high cream line to make butter. cheese you can do with most milk. if you are going to sell milk quantity matters. you need to try to get as much milk as you can. ATTN. with the least effort. i have done it both ways. if i have to feed water scoop poop clean equipment care for the animal buy hay and haul it. the list goes on. i want all of what is offered as i can get. smaller cow less poop. my mini jersey put some full size cows to shame. same with my lamacha doe. so small size has little to do with her udder production. my doe came from quantity showing at fairs. they also talk about a mirror for milking production. kind of a theory. if from the anus down to the udder there is a definate line. the line will go right onto the udder. now a good line definition is supposed to be a mirror of her ability. i do look for it on my bucks and bulls too. it is a line that goes down to their ball sack. i find it interesting. please make sure the udder will not be on the ground when full. LOL with ginger she has a long udder. hangs very low. not safe for her when full. it gets scraped up some. plus hard to put the machine on. thats how one cow i have is. i have a special claw for her. has she been milked before? MASTITUS oh man have i had trials with it. i had a dairy man ask me when would i learn?? he said buy a first year heifer with good milk lines. then that way she has NEVER had mastitus. whether you buy a goat cow or what watch out for mastitus and udder issues. hope this helps gotta go milk sherrye
the learn as we go silk purse farm
farm girl #1014
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| sherrye |
Posted - Jan 04 2012 : 08:13:43 AM
i am full of opinions too. first i would say if you buy from some one you do not know....GET TESTS DONE... CAE ETC. i have bought my share of udder night mares. taste the milk and try milking her BEFORE you make a deal. if you are the head alpha goat cow woman then nubians are ok. i bought 2 and raised from babies. they were sweet enough. just too much energy for me. i have lamanchas now and a boer doe. i love their personality. easy going and great mothers. the kids a heavy and make me money when i sell for meat. i breed with a boer buck. i stopped milking goats. i went to cow. i like getting a LOT of milk for my effort. i prefer mini cows. less poop etc. i like having the cream on top. i drink pure cream as often as i can. right now belle holds her cream back for her calf Flower. we are breeding our cows for smaller size and beef in the line. more dual purpose cow. right now i get 2 gallons a day plus she feed her calf. if i do not want to milk i leave the calf with her at night. usually i lock baby up and milk in morning. its working great. it does depend on the animals production. the baby needs to be big enough to drink it all. i call belle my wash and wear cow. my lamancha ginger is a huge producer. she can barely walk when her bag is full. which ever you get i think you will love it. i do enjoy milking and my animals. if you have enough milk you could feed a pig also. just a few ideas. happy days to you sherrye
the learn as we go silk purse farm
farm girl #1014
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| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Jan 03 2012 : 2:10:38 PM
I recently made a new farmgirl friend who has a couple of premium dairy line goats. I taught her to process ducks :D If I don't rush into it I'm sure she would give me a fantastic deal on a doe kid eventually. Again, if I could get ahold of a good Jersey and get a cow share underway I may hold off on the goat for now and go the cow direction.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
| RedHoopWoman |
Posted - Jan 03 2012 : 1:46:12 PM
Jen I think it's wise to learn as much as you can about your options before getting into these things,whatever you decide you'll be much more confident in undertaking home dairying when you've done your research.
The Nigerian Dwarves can be really good goats,the only problem with some of them is that sometimes alot of people keep them solely as pets and don't develop their milking abilities by selectively breeding for production,managing them for milk production,etc..but it sounds like you have access to some that are and they can be excellent dairy animals,they have a rich sweet milk with about an eight percent butterfat and that milk is excellent for making cheese or for fresh table use.
The ones I had were mediocre in breeding and while they produced alright it wasn't enough to justify thier keeping for me and I decided I wanted to concentrate solely on Nubians so I traded off my Nigerians to someone whose interest was solely Nigerian Dwarves.
There's a few ways to measure improvement in dairy lines,they have DHIR tests and Linear Appraisals and milk tests available though the goat registries,if a doe produces a certain volume of milk with a certain amount of protein and butterfat they earn a star and this helps to denote a good milker and enhances the value of the goat and thier lines.
I'm a member of ADGA and have yet to fully take advantage of alot of the programs and not sure I understand them all but plan to eventually take advantage of these things,I bought good quality purebred Nubians and am aiming for improvement and these programs sure help.
"Today's Mighty Oak is just Yesterday's Nut" |
| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Jan 03 2012 : 1:28:27 PM
I'm in a really good area for goats. Apparently we have some very good mini dairy lines down here (I've heard whisperings of "desert nanny"). Lots of good local breeders are working on accreditation (not sure if that is the right word in livestock, but yeah.) for "milk stars" on their herd sires so this is the year to get into some well bred stock before their papers raise their value too much.
I'm also still kicking around the idea of going the cow route and doing a "cow share", but I need to know as much as possible about both roads to make the best informed decision I think.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.” ~Will Rogers |
| RedHoopWoman |
Posted - Jan 03 2012 : 12:42:50 PM
Jen I raise purebred Nubians and recommend them to alot of people because I personally like thier traits,they have high butterfat content to thier milk which is great for fresh drinking,yogurt,cheese,etc..they are decent producers but often don't produce the high volumes of milk you can expect from goats such as Saanens,Alpines and Toggenburgs and they can be a little fussy when you're getting them into the routine of milking or training them for showing but I love them and thier quirks.
I used to keep Alpines and I really love them too,they are great producers,very winter/cold hardy and great browsers,they are one of my favorite breeds and I miss having them but the stock that was available here and within my price range was the Nubians and I found I liked them just as much though they are different in alot of traits.
I had Nigerian Dwarves too but just recently sold them off,I didn't care for their temperament and thier production but that's not to say that they're no good at all as a breed,they just weren't what I wanted but I know there's alot of Nigerian Dwarf goats out there who are great producers and valuable to thier keepers,that was just not my experience with my particular stock.
You can make butter from goat's milk,it's not that they don't have the butterfat content it is that goat's milk is naturally homogenized,that is the butterfat is more finely dispersed through the milk (does anyone have a better way of explaining that?I'm not sure that's technically accurate)so it does not readily rise to the top as cow's milk does,it will rise some but for thevolume of cream you would need to make a decent amount of butter you would have to make repeated skimmings of the milk over time or mechanically extract the cream such as with a cream seperator.
Milk and cow's milk tastes the same to me and it should taste the same with varying amounts of richness,it is how the milk is handled is what will determine if you have any off,barny or goaty flavors but if you milk in a clean environment,avoid any particles in the milk and cool it down as quick as possible after milking it should taste fresh and clean.
The longer it takes to cool milk the more likely it is to develop off flavors so pouring it in a jar and putting it in the fridge doesn't cool it quick enough,you have to use an ice water bath and cool it as soon as possible after milking.
The longer raw goat's milk stands though the capric acid seems to ripen and raw milk that is a few day's old will sometimes develop a more distinct "goaty" flaver but I make alot of French goat cheeses where that is desired so that doesn't bother me but may be offensive to some whose tastes don't appreciate that much terroir or affinage in thier milk or cheese.
As far as shopping for a goat,buy from a reputable breeder who takes pride in thier herd and not someone who just dabbles around or has a few rangy crossbred goats in thier backyard that thier kids forgot about and now are "just there",there's alot of people selling goats like this,often on CraigsList and while I occasionally list some goats on CL and have seen some quality ones there's also alot of real dink one pint milkers whose only destiny should be as cabrito burritos.
Crossbred goats are good as long as the person has selected goats that are good producers,I had some Alpine/Nubian crosses and they were wonderful producers so don't be biased about crossbred goats because oftentimes they have hybrid vigor and exhibit good health and production or on the flip side,if someone hasn't taken the time to develop good crossbred goats they can be real goofy dink bucket kickers (dink is cowboy lingo for "poorly bred or conformed")
Horns are a matter of choice,I used to keep horns on all my goats but in recent years I have changed my mind and now prefer hornless goats.
You will want to look for well cared for goats from someone who cares for thier stock and keeps records of kiddings and milk production as well as vaccinations and dewormings.
You will want to ask if the goat and it's herd has any history of CAE or CL and ask for verification of CAE tests for the animal or the herd in general,Johne's is also a disease of concern though it is relatively uncommon but not all producers test for it unless there has been a problem with it in the area,it is usually a disease of cows but can affect goats with devastating results.
Look for good udder attachment and spacing,I would look at a good goat book to get an idea of what is desirable because they are hard to explain and better if you can get a good visual,you want to look for an udder or teats that will make ease of milking.
I generally would start out with bred does either dry or in milk so you don't have to chase down breeding service or you could start with a bred doe and one already in milk,in that case ask for milking records,ask to see the goat milked and give it a shot yourself to be sure she isn't a one pint bucket kicker.
I would never have less than two goats,they need goat company,even if you have other animals the bond with other goats is very important,there are some goats who do alright alone but I think it is ideal to have two together even if they have other animals for company.
Well,I'm practically writing a book here,I hope it helps,I probably haven't answered all your questions here,a few books that I recommend are Pat Coleby's "Natural Goat Care" and "Raising Milk Goats Successfully" by Gail Luttman.
Well,I hope all this helps,let us know if there's more we can tell you about goats,I'm happy to share what I know if it helps you in some way.
"Today's Mighty Oak is just Yesterday's Nut" |
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