| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Dec 20 2011 : 12:22:12 PM
I've been fostering a puppy I've been considering keeping, but this morning it got ahold of one of my ducks and put a big hole in her neck, all the way down to the meat.
The duck is ok, and totally treatable, but I'd still like to try to salvage the dog in a farm setting. The little guy is a pyr/sportdog mix, about 3 months old.
At the moment hubby has one of our meatie drakes and the pup closed in a room with him, scolding him with a rolled up newspaper for showing any interest in the duck whatsoever.
Any other ideas??
He keeps picking on my expensive white layer hybrids >_<
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut. ~Will Rogers |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Dec 22 2011 : 1:54:08 PM
Haha! that's a great suggestion Anna, I'll talk to DH about it and see if we can find one.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut. ~Will Rogers |
| Annab |
Posted - Dec 22 2011 : 10:07:42 AM
I've siad this ih other posts too. A puppy is most impressionable the first 4-5 months of its life, so whatever you want to teach it, now is the time. Same goes for socializing it with strange people and other dogs too if you don't want an aggressive and unpredictable adult dog later on.
So go find that big goose and let the poor thing get flogged a few times. It will be heart breaking to see, and maybe a little funny (sick I know) but it might do the trick). |
| Annab |
Posted - Dec 22 2011 : 10:04:27 AM
Something to keep in mind!
When you call the dog to you..do it in an upbeat "happy" voice even if you are seething mad inside. And praise the dog for coming to you, never scold. That's teaching the wrong behavior.
Hard to do
And if it has something you do not want it to have, chasing after it, or trying to grab it away will only be interpreted as a game. Best find whatever the dog thinks is a high value reward...somrthing like a hot dog (shudder) or piece of cheese. Call the dog to you, praise it for coming to you, trade and reward.
Takes practice and a TON of patience |
| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 3:59:38 PM
Trish: Nope, I've actually worked with my moms dog and he's doing SO much better. His master takes him out in morning to put him on his cable run to spend the day, he comes in in the evening and hangs out with her, and he goes on leashed walks in between. When people around here started taking prevention more seriously the dog got out of his bad habits and hasn't had a slip since.
I didn't plan on keeping the puppy, I just had several homes fall through and he is soooo sweet and acts very pyr with all the mannerisms like crossing his paws, and the pyr grin. The last time someone was going to come get him I found myself dreading the day-- and then they never showed. The mother was a lemon dalmation mystery mix and the father was supposedly a purebred pyr. He just looks up at me under that thick white fur and gives me this look that makes me say: "Please God, help me be the person this dog thinks I am."
When I had the whole litter, they were outside almost exclusively together and with the free range birds daily and never had an issue, and this happened the day after his last sibling left-- my gut says he was trying to puppy play with the duck and his little teeth cut through her soft skin a bit much. He's a big puppy and not a runner, I don't think he'd have caught her so easily if the duck was afraid of him. My inner CSI says the wound is not consistent with a kill attempt.
I don't live on a big place, and I don't need him to guard my animals on the back 40 from the wolves or anything. At the most I'd expect him to keep coyotes and human strangers out of "his" borders (back yard and house). It's only important that he not harass the livestock while he does this, and I think it's a pretty attainable goal, even for a mix.
I don't "get" the whole idea behind tying the dead bird around a dog's neck. Can't wrap my head around the idea of it as a punishment at all to the dog, I've never known a dog yet that didn't love a roll in manure or something dead. Just seems counterproductive and macabre.
Anyway, we've already taken precautions not to leave him alone with free range ducks. His "pet" obediance training is coming along smashing, he DID drop the bird the second I commanded him to, and I got wise this time around and have been using positive reinforcement to train him to come when we say "Come" in the "mad voice, so he came right up to me as well, so he's on the right track. He's just a work in progress like any other pup, I just wanted to know what experience other people have to weigh against my own plans.
Hearing Natalie's experience with her Dierks reassures me that I am probably on the right track with this guy. I'm chalking it up to inappropriate behavior rather than a lost cause in his prey drives, and I will take more precautions to keep my birds safe and train his behavior in the meantime.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut. ~Will Rogers |
| prariehawk |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 3:47:54 PM
I think you should find someone who has a goose, and let the goose have a go at the pup. He won't like it, won't forget it, and will probably avoid ducks afterwards. Just my thoughts.
Cindy
"Vast floods can't quench love, no matter what love did/ Rivers can't drown love, no matter where love's hid"--Sinead O'Connor
"In many ways, you don't just live in the country, it lives inside you"--Ellen Eilers
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
| sherrye |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 2:29:15 PM
you said it Anna,LOL so i just got done working with 5 different calves. each is so different. but with work i think any thing is possible. we here are the learn as we go farm happy days sherrye
the learn as we go silk purse farm
farm girl #1014
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| Annab |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 11:14:50 AM
So to answer your question in a round about way.....yes you can train yor puppy to leave your ducks alone -or at least not kill them, but it will take work |
| Annab |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 11:13:05 AM
I have a Belgian who LOVES to herd at any time. So for her, we used a shake can of pennies. (15 makes enough of a racket to get their attention). Any time she made moves toward the chickens, we shook the can. The sound is supposed to distract the dog, so you then quicjkly call them to you, and you reward them (with a small treat). It's tricky to catch them BEFORE they start to misbehave, otherwise you end up rewarding for the wrong behavior.
And it helped to have a highly aggressive rooster at the time who kind of put hr in her place.
Pity you don't have access to a slightly meaner duck.
And sadly, prey drive is instinctual that will need to be redirected via like the above mentioned training shake can. |
| sherrye |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 07:25:57 AM
it is a caesar milan answer. he would not put a chicken on the dog. he would not beat the dog. you need to be there and do corrections. get his videos. they are on netflix. you could use a training collar. one that has a vibration to it. you could use a dog whistle. something to get the dogs attention and to look at you. we have a yorkie and 2 rescue dogs. they sooo would love to chase and kill. NOT HERE i am alpha they listen to me. now the yorkie is a chicken herder. so sometimes he goes on a rant. usually he will help me round them up. so i can catch them. we now have 5 rabbits naturalizing out free here. we see them running up the driveway. when they first came. i spent time with the dogs correcting them. now this week we turned 10 ducks out. only took a few minutes for them to see hands off. you can teach the dog if no more mistakes happen. prevention is good. praise when the right choice is made. my affection to my dogs is earned. i dont spend time petting them in the house. their reward is me petting when they have done a good job. just me opinion. happy days sherrye
the learn as we go silk purse farm
farm girl #1014
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| one_dog_per_acre |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 04:43:02 AM
Jen,
Is this pup being influenced by your mom's dog, that you were thinking of giving away?
It always looks darkest just before it gets totally black.-Charlie Brown |
| one_dog_per_acre |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 04:30:56 AM
Ask Caeser Milan. I would have a hard time taking advice about family members from strangers that are pro torture. What other word do you call hanging a dead animal around somethings neck?
It always looks darkest just before it gets totally black.-Charlie Brown |
| YakLady |
Posted - Dec 21 2011 : 04:24:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by one_dog_per_acre
Is it possible to beat the prey drive out of a birding dog?
I don't know, I don't beat dogs. Just said that's what the old-schoolers will tell you if you ask.
quote:
Can I take the rotting bird off of the dogs neck when it's inside, and still have this method work?
Probably not.
That's seriously just what I was told by more than a handful of people I talked to about Dierks when he was a pup. They all said the same things about dealing with canine/poultry issues with guardian dogs. So the OP would probably hear the same thing if she asked around at the feed store. I've seen it demonstrated, and those dogs got the message much faster than my dog did- but I can't hit my dog.
Like I said, my guardian only needs verbal cues. The Chessie is the one that doesn't get to meet birds unattended. It's really that simple. His physical corrections are being grounded when he does something warranting it.
~Natalie~ Just a farmgirl in Western Montana. http://mtnme.blogspot.com
Starting a family and raising Tibetan Yaks, Nigerian Dwarf Goats, Laying hens, Muscovy ducks, and a few dogs. |
| one_dog_per_acre |
Posted - Dec 20 2011 : 6:35:02 PM
Is it possible to beat the prey drive out of a birding dog?
Can I take the rotting bird off of the dogs neck when it's inside, and still have this method work?
It always looks darkest just before it gets totally black.-Charlie Brown |
| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Dec 20 2011 : 6:00:02 PM
just so you all know, i have Anatolians and aussies, have had pits and a hybrid wolfdog, and NEVER with any of my dogs, have I had to resort to hiting them with anything ever, basic obediance training and voice tones. I have never had any of my dogs ever kill any livestock or poultry, not even a threat, and I DO NOT coddle my dogs either, they all have been working dogs and do great from the time they are tiny pups they are with me out with the animals, I have cattle, horses, goats and sheep, chickens and turkeys, rabbits and many cats, if any of my dogs did not work out, I would place them with a non-ranching/farming family, but to date (43 yrs)have not had to do that yet...and if any dog every attacked any animal on my property (mine or strays), they would meet the business end of my gun...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
| YakLady |
Posted - Dec 20 2011 : 5:01:58 PM
If you talk to the old school farmers that I've met in my travels, the way to break a dog of seeing poultry as a toy/prey is to A. tie the one they kill around their neck to rot (really doesn't work well in winter) or B. turn the dead bird into a "corrective tool" which basically translated to hitting the dog with it. Hard.
Those both do work, but that's really not something a lot of people are willing to do. Totally understandable.
I have 3 dogs- a Shih Tzu (5), a Chesapeake Bay Retriever(5), and a Pyr/Anatolian guardian(19 months). What a mix, right? 12, 80 and 140 pounds... nonsensical, really. Anyways- My duck and chickens are as big as the Shih Tzu, so only chicks are an issue with him. The Chessie? He killed many layers last spring/summer and most recently-my drake, and the guardian almost killed him for it. That was a fun day, not. The guardian is just coming out of his puppy phase now. He used to chase the chickens, catch them between his front paws, and lick them until their hearts exploded with fear (I assume- never did a necropsy). The way I broke him of this was verbal correction (read: screaming to high heaven if he so much as looked at a chicken). My chickens free-range, and they have learned to look for Dierks(guard pup). If one does go in his pen, he will bark at them now, but not chase them. This took from 7 weeks old to about 16 months to pound into his head. Now, if anything comes near his birds, he gets super angry and alerts. It just took a while to establish that the birds are also his charges, not his toys.
I'm not sure what your dog will or won't respond to. I know my dogs, the Chessie requires physical correction from my husband (his human) to get it through his thick skull. If I so much as LOOK at the guardian wrong, he tucks tail and feels like crap- so he's a verbal correction only from either my husband or I (he's overly bonded to me, not a good thing really). The Shih Tzu is generally well-behaved and I wouldn't physically correct him, anyway. He's a good listener.
When it comes down to it, all dogs are different and it can just take some time to figure a puppy out. I think you're doing a good job and it's awesome that you're considering keeping your foster pup :) Please keep us posted!
Edit: I forgot to add that if you're keeping the pup for a pet, you may be able to speed things along with basic obedience training! "Leave it" "come" etc. could really help get him away from the birds :) Once he's proficient, of course.
~Natalie~ Just a farmgirl in Western Montana. http://mtnme.blogspot.com
Starting a family and raising Tibetan Yaks, Nigerian Dwarf Goats, Laying hens, Muscovy ducks, and a few dogs. |
| Ursula Norsedottir |
Posted - Dec 20 2011 : 3:14:18 PM
I am going to be watching this thread closely, I have often wondered about this sort of thing. Our current GSD mix does not show any interest in poultry whatsoever, his only issue seem to be cats and schoolbuses, but we are planning on adopting another canine or two and I don't want to have problems later on it this. To my understanding, certain dogs are just not meant to be around birds, and while you can train them to ignore them, they are not going to have any desire to protect those animals. I am not sure if this was something you want or expected out of the dog, but I know if it were me that is something I require. All animals have a function in my home, and Kodiak (our only animal atm) serves as atop-notch security guard. I am with Kathryn, kid gloves will spoil a dog, and a newspaper never hurt anybody!
http://theblackbearden.blogspot.com/ |
| RedHoopWoman |
Posted - Dec 20 2011 : 2:54:11 PM
Jen I think you're doing alright by that dog,I think there's a chance he can learn to get along with your poultry,you just have to keep him in constant supervision and be sure that you're there to punish him when he transgresses until he gets the idea that he cannot maim or kill your livestock.
Never give him an opportunity to get at an animal while you're not there,always be sure you are there when he's around the livestock and be ready to punish him whatever way that he responds to if he transgresses.
I am not a person who coddles dogs,I don't handle them with kid gloves and I would do whatever it takes to protect my livestock or get it across to a dog that livestock harassment or killing will not be tolerated,too many people try to make excuses for poor behavior and never expect better behavior from the dog and that leads to them being out of control.
I would discipline him in whatever method works best to get through to him,that could be voice or other loud noise to interrupt his thought process or whacking him with a newspaper,for the record I have never known of a dog being injured or killed by a good whack (or one or two or twenty) with a rolled up newspaper.
If my dog transgresses I want him convinced for about five seconds that he is about to die and then we move on like nothing ever happened.
Discipline and constant supervision in the early stages will make a good dog,handling him with kid gloves or making excuses for his behavior and not challenging him to be better will turn him into a hoodlum.
On a farm there are lives at stake,the lives of your animals and the dog's life as inevitably a dog that harasses or kills livestock will find himself an untimely and unfortunate grave end eventually so you're doing him a good service by training him early on to get along with these animals and if it takes tenderizing him with a newspaper when he transgresses I think that's fair enough.
Good luck with your dog,let us know how it goes!
"Today's Mighty Oak is just Yesterday's Nut" |
| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Dec 20 2011 : 2:20:49 PM
in my opinion, putting a pup and a duck in the same room and expecting said pup to ignore duck, even after he has already bit a duck, and hes only 3 months old, is over the top, some dogs, no matter what, will not be good around any kind of poultry/livestock, in a sense, your huddy is dareing/teasing him with the duck, and useing a rolled newspaper is not the right way either, voice tone and repetition is the best way with a pup...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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