| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Oct 30 2009 : 12:17:08 PM
So, here's the thing. I was a vegetarian for 8 years. And I started eating meat again about 10 years ago...I like meat. And the reason I began eating it again because people were becoming conscious about where their food was coming from--small farms were producing grass fed hormone free beef, free range chicken, etc...farmers who care about their animals, and care about providing a safe food source for their public. It's a win win. But what about after these animals leave the farm?
What prompted this post (and has consequently made me throw up my lunch, and reduce me to an alternating mess of tears and rage, is the HSUS email letter I received (of which I am a member) and what their factory farm investigation team uncovered unspeakable--seriously--I cannot even bring myself to rethink what I've read--atrocities to veal calves at a slaughterhouse in Vermont. Oddly enough, this particular slaughterhouse is referred to and listed on countless "organic farming" websites throughout this particular state as "reputable" and "preferred".
It just makes me think. And it should make you think, too. For me, it negates the WHOLE process of buying locally, organically or otherwise if, at the end of these poor creatures lives, they are treated cruelly. Slaughter is inevitable for food source, but if there is no monitoring for humane treatment, what good is a stupid "grass fed" or "organic" label at the market? I want to be able to TRUST my food source from the beginning to the end.
This is not an argumentative question or meant to be disrespectful, so please don't take it so--for those farmgirls who don't butcher their own animals, how do you pick your slaughterhouse? What is important to you in choosing one? Are you confident that your animals are treated humanely, or does it not matter in the end. I have read too many Temple Grandin books for me to think otherwise, but I am more curious about the method in which farmers approach the sale/slaughter of the animals they have taken the time and care to raise.
Musings from our family in the Bluegrass http://sweetvioletmae.blogspot.com/ |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| rhondacate |
Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 7:27:24 PM
We raise pastured poultry on our farm and process it ourselves and sell it locally. In fact, we are processing 50 birds tomorrow. We use the kosher kill method and they are processed as humanely as possible.
I know there are quite a lot of farmers who do the same thing. www.localharvest.com was a great suggestion. But also, check out farmer's markets in nearby towns, if you know they don't sell meat at your local farmer's market.
Sometimes farmers are still not up on the online world, so they may not be listed on these websites, so ask around.
The great thing about buying local meat is knowing your farmer. We have had many people come watch us process birds, and all are impressed.
~Rhonda
http://rmfo-blogs.com/rhonda |
| Celticheart |
Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 11:56:41 AM
I read the info about the WAPF right after I posted about Pierre and making stock. I'll try to take good notes when we make the stock. I hope his wife is there to translate or it could be a little garbled. Actually, I learn something everytime I talk to him. We got bones for our dog too this time when we butchered. I might need to save some of them for the beef stock.
I will be checking more into the WAPF site and information. I think my dietitian daughter would be interested in all of that too.
"Let us never forget that the cultivation of the earth is the most important labor of man. When tillage begins, other art follows. The farmers, therefore, are the founders of civilization."
Daniel Webster
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| kristin sherrill |
Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 04:45:50 AM
Marcia, that's another great way to find meat. From a good restaraunt. Because alot of them now are buying locally and only using fresh meat. Good idea. She could just ask the chef or owner where they get their meat and they might be willing to share. And your little French chef sounds very interesting! You should take a few lessons from him! Then you can teach us. I was reading on another post about the Weston A. Price Foundation and making beef stock from bones. When I had my steer butchered I got all the bones. I was going to give them to my dogs but now I think I will make beef stock and can it. I haven't had beef in years (except a little from a farm near here that has grass-fed cows) so this is all new to me. I have almost forgotten how to make a roast. It will all come back to me, I'm sure.
But I do hope Jonni will see this and check out all these great places. And that she gets a good contact soon.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
| Celticheart |
Posted - Nov 05 2009 : 8:47:48 PM
Those all sound like good ideas to me Kristin. We live in a very rural area but I know that the mobile butcher has made some good recommendations for us. This last time it was where to get our meat cut. We used a new shop and they are fantastic. We recommend them to everyone we know. I also think that farmer's markets are good places to check for meat. I believe in my French chef friend Pierre's way of doing things. Get to know as many farmers as you can. He only buys directly from farmers. That way he knows exactly what he's getting. At least I think that's what he said......I have the hardest time understanding him. I just talked to him today when I sold him 10 dozen eggs. Well, actually he talked and I tried to figure out what he was saying. It was something about leeks and teaching me to make stock the French way..........................
"Let us never forget that the cultivation of the earth is the most important labor of man. When tillage begins, other art follows. The farmers, therefore, are the founders of civilization."
Daniel Webster
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| kristin sherrill |
Posted - Nov 05 2009 : 06:06:18 AM
Jonni, I guess you have tried looking up www.buylocal.com? And are there farmer's markets close by? I guess we are lucky to live near Chattanooga. There are so many good quality organic farms here. They also process alot of their meats right on the farm. Maybe you could place an ad on Craigs List. Or www.localharvest.com would have places near you, too. Type in what you are looking for near you and you will get a map of places that have that particular product. Also just word of mouth is sometimes the best way to find good stuff. Just ask. Someone has to know someone who has what you want. It may take awhile, so don't give up. Also ask your meat guy where you shop where the meat comes from. Maybe you could buy direct from them if they practice humane butchering. Also see if there are any mobile butchers and contact them to see if they know people they butcher for that want to sell some meat. I just googled mobile butchers.
I hope this helps. How far are you from Chattanooga? We have a great farm here called Sequatchie Valley Farm. They have practicallly everything you'd want. You could look them up on-line and they might know places near you. They have lamb right now.
Good luck. And if I can thing of more places to look, I'll let ya know. But really, just asking other people you know is the best way.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Nov 05 2009 : 05:42:44 AM
Thanks Kris, and Marcia, for your thoughtful responses. I really appreciate what you do--the most important thing for me is knowing where my meat comes from. From beginning to end. And, that what I consume was treated with respect and dignity, and love.
Kris, you mentioned that there are so many places to get good meat now. How do you suggest I begin? When I do a search locally for "humanely processed meat" I get nothing in return. There are ample sites that boast humane, grass fed, etc while on the farm. And how would you suggest I ask my questions in communicating with a farm about humane processing? I don't want to be impertinent, or come across as some whacko animal rights activist. I'm just plain sensible, and I believe in this to my bones.
Musings from our family in the Bluegrass http://sweetvioletmae.blogspot.com/ |
| Celticheart |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 8:44:12 PM
We have been so lucky to have a mobile butcher who has taken care of our hogs(when we raised them) and now our steers. He understands the way things are to be done here and our animals are treated with respect. These are our 'babies". They were born here, they have a very good life here and they die here. It's a cycle. And the meat is wonderful. We've even converted my ex-vegetarian, ex-Californian DIL. She said the clincher for her was seeing how they were raised. I made my DH promise we would never have so many at a time that it stopped being personal.
It's not about being perfect, but enjoying what you do. Set aside time to be creative.
Robyn Pandolph
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| kristin sherrill |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 7:28:57 PM
I will only eat what I have raised anymore. I cannot stand the thought of "store bought" meat. Just thinking about what those poor animals have been through turns my stomach.
I have butchered chickens, turkeys and rabbits here. In January we will butcher 3 bucks here. I wanted to butcher my steer here but couldn't find anyone to do it. After lots of thinking and talking to people I decided to take him to the local butcher. I talked to him before I made up my mind. I have had this cow since he was just a few hours old. Bottle fed him and my little heifer all my goat milk til they were weaned. Then on pasture and hay. He was a big ole baby. We took him a few weeks ago. He was only in the holding area a few hours before it was over. So I know he had a good life and was very happy here. I don't feel bad at all about the whole process.
I have read this post and all the comments. I have never eaten veal because of the way the poor little calves are treated. It's so sad. Since living on this little farm I have changed alot. It's so important to know where my food comes from. So I grow as much of our food as I can. I am very fortunate to be able to do this. Lots of people can't. But there are so many places to get good food now.
Kris
Happiness is simple. |
| walkinwalkoutcattle |
Posted - Nov 03 2009 : 08:28:37 AM
Yeah, honestly, I can say that I tried veal once when I was young, I went to some fancy-dancy thing with my parents...and I didn't like it. Even back then, when I probably didn't know what the whole process was, in the back of my mind when I think back to it, I remember it tasting like liver. Who knows, I might've had liver and not known it, and maybe someone told me it was veal...but I remember being like "EW. This is mushy and GROSS."
Starbucks and sushi to green fried tomatoes and corn pudding-I wouldn't change it for the world.
www.cattleandcupcakes.blogspot.com |
| Annab |
Posted - Nov 03 2009 : 03:20:06 AM
I remember eating veal one time.....just one time at a wedding reception when I was around 12 or so.
Back then I still knew somewhat what veal really was and a little bit about the process.
I can still recall the brief conflict going on in my head too. Yes it was REALLY good, but not at the price for being cruel. So I too have never eaten it again.
Even in the fanciest of restaurants, I'd prefer a cut of prime rib or some kind of really great fish. Both of which are fork tender. |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 10:23:37 AM
Meghan and Kelly...
I completely understand what you mean by saying that they are loved, cuddled, snuggled, etc before...well, you know...
I worked at a high volume rural animal shelter for 2 years, 4 days a week and that was the motto: give em' lots of love and hugs and kisses while in our care, because they won't all get homes. It was still very tough when the time came, but knowing that we did our best by them made it seem less senseless.
Musings from our family in the Bluegrass http://sweetvioletmae.blogspot.com/ |
| 4HMom |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 08:51:29 AM
Megan, I totally get what you're saying. I tell people we like to "play" with our food. Our pigs are the most spoiled critters! They're loved on, played with, and yes, even cuddled. You're right, there's a lot of peace of mind.
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi |
| walkinwalkoutcattle |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 07:14:40 AM
Very true.
I'd also like to state that every farm girl, farm boy, farm FAMILY who chooses to slaughter their own meat, HUMANELY, is doing their part. I for one know that instead of spending, what would you estimate, maybe, $1,000 a year at least on beef & chicken, supporting these inhumane ways? I can rest easy knowing these things:
1. I'm not helping further the abuse and depravity.
2. I know WHERE, HOW, and WHEN my meat was slaughtered, and how it was treated before hand.
3. I know WHAT went into my meat.
4. And above all, and this might sound sick to some, but I know that my steers were loved with hugs, snuggles, for as long as we had them, which is quite a bit of peace of mind for me.
These things are what helped me in my decision to slaughter my own cattle instead of buying at the grocery store.
Starbucks and sushi to green fried tomatoes and corn pudding-I wouldn't change it for the world.
www.cattleandcupcakes.blogspot.com |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 06:40:20 AM
I want to thank everyone for their honest responses. I wasn't clear in my initial post, but I have never eaten veal in my life--my mother wouldn't allow it in our home. The video just happend to be about veal, and it sent my mind spinning--I know that veal calves are not the only animals that suffer cruelly before slaughter. And Meagan, I'm glad to know someone in our state is taking responsibility for their animals--I couldn't be a customer, but I value what he's accomplished very much.
The issue of humane slaughtering has bothered me for a very long time, but I have been somewhat apathetic about it. I've worked with autistic children and adults, and that was how I became interested in Temple Grandin and her work to reevaluate slaughtering, but I agree with another poster who said it's only going to work if a slaughterhouse adopts the principals and monitors the employees to maintain that standard.
Kelly, I will get the book you mentioned, thanks for the reference.
Teresa, I agree with you and your approach to slaughter--thank you for making a difference for these animals. I wish you could write your reasonings out and hand it out at your classes. It's the most logical thing in the world when you read it out loud!!! Another poster was right--the approach won't work when feeding the world, but it makes one heck of a difference right here on our plates, at home.
These posts just add more fuel to my fire--my appetite for meat was pretty dampened over the weekend, but it will come back, and when it does, I would like to be ready for it. I am bound and determined to contact local farms around my area, and even counties beyond me to find a food source I can live with.
Musings from our family in the Bluegrass http://sweetvioletmae.blogspot.com/ |
| walkinwalkoutcattle |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 03:10:28 AM
http://straussveal.com/
Here's the program on the free range veal...we'll see how it goes!
Starbucks and sushi to green fried tomatoes and corn pudding-I wouldn't change it for the world.
www.cattleandcupcakes.blogspot.com |
| prariehawk |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 7:05:59 PM
Megan--that is the first I've ever heard of humanely raised veal. But I wonder--if the meat isn't as tender, will people still want to buy it? Most people I know who eat veal eat it because the meat is so tender. It sounds good in practice, but I wonder if it will be financially feasible in the long run.
"Dog is my co-pilot"
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
| simone947 |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 08:25:21 AM
there are alot of pasture raised veal opportunities around here- the meat is pink not as white as commercial veal. the calves in the video were not veal calves- they were wet calves- probably 1-5 days old. i've been trying to figure out what they make out of bob calves- must be by-products and fillers. i've been thinking alot about other options for our bull calves (we send them at 3-7 days old to auction and i would imagine that some could have ended up at bushway- its only 1 hour away) the dairy industry is impossible to cash flow as it is. we used to raise steers and sell them to a beef place in vt, but we were just losing money. another thing i was thinking about was the people working in the slaughter houses. I think it would be hard to be a compassionate person and kill animals day in day out for 12 hours straight. the men in the video were disgusting but how would that job attract anyone different? I'm definitely a meat eater and don't plan on changing- we raise a lot of our own meat (chicken and beef), we also hunt and trap, but i am concerned about the industry of beef and dairy production. things have to be changed and made more transparent. our dairy is getting welfare certified next week and i'm wondering if they made welfare certification mandatory instead of voluntary it would help prices to the farmers and increase the quality of life for the animal and the quality of the meat product. |
| N@n |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 06:36:21 AM
I didn't make it clear but the Rabbis also see that the animals are humanely butchered in the most sanitary of conditions.
keep searchin'-it's out there somewhere. |
| N@n |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 06:14:50 AM
Good morning Februaryviolet and all,
I am a carnivore. But I certainly hear your words and share your concern. Since I live in Arkansas,I live amongst the "Tyson" chicken farms. Not a pretty sight at all. I too, refuse to eat veal. Never have,(to my knowlege) and never intend to. I might offer a suggestion to those of you who like to eat meat on occasion. If you purchase Kosher meat, that meat is inspected by Rabbis from the place where it is raised to where and how it is butchered. They see to it that the meat on the hoof is treated humanely as directed Biblically. I am not Jewish, but you would think I am by the contents of the freezer in my house.
Nancy in Ark
keep searchin'-it's out there somewhere. |
| walkinwalkoutcattle |
Posted - Nov 01 2009 : 02:00:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by prariehawk
There IS no humane way to raise veal.
I would like to address that in particular. I have a friend whom I work with who raises organic, grass-fed veal. These veal calves are never tethered-NEVER! They are never fed hormones/animal by-products, and are only vaccinated with required by the government required vaccinations (blackleg, madcow, etc.). I assisted in helping him get involved with the program. It's a new program to him, and it's been a difficult road, as free-range veal is definitely not as tender as the cruelly treated veal calves. But he believes it's an alternative that's worth investing in personally. You can only buy it locally, from him and a few other farmers at this point, but I believe it's an idea that will catch on.
I do NOT eat veal, never have, but I do believe there is a cruelty-free way to raise and slaughter your meat, wether it's chicken, beef, or pork.
Starbucks and sushi to green fried tomatoes and corn pudding-I wouldn't change it for the world.
www.cattleandcupcakes.blogspot.com |
| 1badmamawolf |
Posted - Oct 31 2009 : 3:12:59 PM
The "ONLY" way you will know how the animal is handled and if it was humane, is to raise it, and slaughter yourself, or stand there when they do it. I do my absolute best to be as gentle and quick as possible, I try not to even let them know its coming, I do not abuse, torture or intentionaly hurt my livestock. I also beleive that the meat WILL taste differant in animals that have been. I have taught many over the yrs how to slaughter, butcher , cut and wrap everykind of animal there is, and I have had some complain I am too slow, when you go to fast, the animal suffers for it, your cuts of meat suffer, and thats how accidents happen to the butcher him/herself. I do the best I beleive I can, and I always do.
"Treat the earth well, it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children" |
| 4HMom |
Posted - Oct 31 2009 : 11:30:32 AM
Jonni,
Read the book "The Compassionate Carnivore". It's an excellent "essay" of how meat can be raised and buchered humanely. We raise our own pigs, hunt deer and elk, and I buy a locally grown lamb each year from an FFA member. These are animals that have had a good life and I know that the end of their life came in such a way that they didn't know it was ending. I don't buy industrialized meat, and consequently, I am totally ok with eating meat.
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi |
| Sarahpauline |
Posted - Oct 31 2009 : 07:41:29 AM
Once when I was about 14 we had gone to this auction barn place, it was sort of a stop off for animals on their way to slaughter. They would have everything there, we were there to buy a horse out of the slaughter truck. While I was there, there was a full van of cattle, all making a lot of noise. The trucker guy was mad they were so noisy so he stuck a cattle prod to the bars on the side of the truck. It still makes my stomach turn to think about it.
I think that it is our responsibility to know where our meat is raised and how it is treated. I give kudos to those who raise their own or make sure they know what has happened before they buy. We all make a choice, most people make the choice to never think about it, buying their meat in sterile plastic containers. I think that is where we go wrong. People are always giving me grief about being a vegetarian. They roll their eyes, "one of those puppy kitty types". Im sorry but right is right. I cant stomach what happens in slaughter houses, or even in feed lots. That is where my meat would come from. Perhaps if I had experienced what Alee had with her cow, I would have felt differently. My cousin who lives in Norway raises her own rabbits for meat. I commend her for being able to do it, she is a huge animal advocate and they are cared for immaculately. But I could not do it. For me participating in the financial gain of an organization that commits horrors and cruelty every day is out of the question and I will not do it. There is also the issue of the environmental impact of the earth groaning under tons of herd animals we use for meat, and the impact of all the fields used to produce food for our food. We gotta eat a little lower on the food chain, the impact is catastrophic. Now China is beginning to live a more western lifestyle, having meat as the center of a meal which historically has never been the case before. That population with cars and turning into meat eaters is causing even more trouble...but I digress.
I dont try to sway people from their path but I think the problem is that too many people dont think about it at all. I commend you ladies for the discussion.
Not all those who wander are lost...
www.SarahPauline.com
www.AbraxasBaroque.com |
| Alee |
Posted - Oct 31 2009 : 07:09:59 AM
Anna- they don't factory farm chicken in my part of the country, but my sister visited New Orleans earlier this year and said the smell from one of those farms was horrific. I can't get past that. We have cut way down on all our meat consumption and I am looking forward to 3 years from now when we can buy our own land. At that point we will no longer eat any meat that is raised by anyone else. We will have the animals slaughtered at out place if at all possible and I am thinking of buying my husband a bone saw so he can do all the meat processing for us. He used to work in a meat department at a grocery store so he knows the basics. We will for-sure be buying a meat grinder.
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.awarmheart.com
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
Put your pin on the farmgirl map! www.farmgirlmap.blogspot.com |
| Annab |
Posted - Oct 31 2009 : 03:25:37 AM
Ahh another Temple Grandin fan.
Very good
I thought she helped revolutionize the slaughter house process. But weather a company chooses to follow this is another matter I suppose.
And yes it is maddening when the supposed organic, free range bla, bla, bla is caught in a lie. Kind of takes the wind out of one's sails doesn't it?
This is why we are supposed to do the responsible thing and check it out! If this is the way we walk, then rather follow blindly, do the research.
In our home we also buy locally. As in , our buddy raises his cows and we get it processed down the street at the local butchering shop.
It's small and family operated.
They use bullets or stun plugs put to the head. It's quick and the animal feels nothing by the time it hits the ground
On the flip side, there are a lot of farm practices that would horrify anybody else having never seen such proceses. Such as de horning, cauterizing horn buds, castration w/o sedation all kinds of stuff.
For me if it's quick and relativley painless, it's fine. Get it over with quickly
I'm a die hard meat eater too, but draw the line at veal no question. I'm usually not an outright kind of activist like that, but I agree, that process is inhumane and cruel and very sad. Yes, it yields a tasty morsel in one's mouth, but to me it's not worth a young animal suffering like that. Same for the geese that are force fed to plump their livers. That's just gross.
And I find it to be not a happy coincidence that since we have been raising our own chicken for eggs, our processed chicken intake has decreased exponentially. Yes, chicken is healtheir for you, but I too get an ill and sad feeling every time I see a truck packed with chickens in crates barreling down the highway. |
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