| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| prariehawk |
Posted - Jun 30 2009 : 12:53:41 AM
the kitten I found and took in. He never has liked cats and now he's acting like this is the ultimate betrayal. I've been trying to find a home for the kitten but you know how that goes. Boxer is jealous, upset, and I'm now afraid to leave the house with both of them in it, even though the kitten is in another room. I can't leave Boxer outside cause it's too hot, and he'd KNOW that I was leaving him out because of the kitten and then he'd really be upset. he's such a sensitive dog. I guess I need to find a home for the kitten, pronto. Maybe my neighbor will take her. She loves cats. But her cats are outdoor cats and this kitten is too sick and small to be outdoors. I hope she can keep it indoors until it's bigger. Please say a prayer that I find a good home for the kitten and SOON--I'm worried about Boxer. He's just like a hyper-sensitive teenager. And I have to really watch him around the kitten cause he gets real tense and I'm afraid he'll hurt her. She weighs just over a pound, and he weighs about seventy pounds, so you can imagine the outcome--does anyone else out there have a hyper-sensitive dog? How do I explain to him that this is just a temporary situation?
Cindy
"Dog is my co-pilot"
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Jul 05 2009 : 11:28:36 PM
I have to agree Cindy, with LaVonna's comment about the Rabbit. I could picture the dog's face too.
One thing about my Eli is that he has a VERY expressive face. You can actually SEE when he's thinking about something, and trust me, those dogs DO think! And, like your Boxer, they can be VERY STUBBORN about things once they get an idea in that great big head of theirs. Like you said, it's a matter of trust with certain types of dogs. If you don't have their trust and respect, FORGET IT! You will NEVER have control over the dog no matter WHAT you do!
LaVonna-- I like your story about Solomon. It was very touching. Eli gets sad over animals that die here too. I have SOOOO many stories I could tell about the things he's done, but it would take forever! So I'll share just this one.... or maybe TWO!
When I got Eli, he was just 2mos old (and nearly 50lbs already!!!). My brother, best friend and I traveled to Oregan on a "mini" vacation to get him about 6yrs ago. On the way home we stopped at this little fish and chips shack for lunch and there was the CUTEST little girl there, no more than 3yrs old or so. Eli actually "GUARDED" that little girl the whole time we were there. Wherever SHE went, HE went! When she knelt down by this little pond to see the fish there, he laid down beside her and "assumed the Pose" (hard to describe to anyone who's never seen it, but you could tell he was "on GUARD duty!") I actually have the whole thing on video tape. It was the NEATEST thing!
Oh, and yesterday, on the Fourth of July, I had two more Jacob lambs born (SURPRISE!!) just before dark. The ewe had a VERY difficult time of it. She had twins trying to come out at the same time and the first twin had her two front legs turned back. All we could get ahold of was the head. It took my husband, me, and our oldest boy to get those twins out. The poor ewe was in A LOT of pain and she was bellowing like nobody's business (Can't say that I BLAME her!). Eli came rushing over and he sat and watched the whole thing to make sure we weren't just hurting her. He understood that we were helping her, though he had to stick his nose in and find out WHAT was going on first to be sure. After that, he just sat like a statue watching. Once the twins were safely delivered, he stayed right beside the mother and her lambs for I don't know HOW LONG. He's such a WONDERFUL dog! I don't know what I'd do without him.
Anyone who is WILLING to be patient, kind, and VERY FIRM-- but LOVING, SHOULD give an LGD a try. There are no other dogs on the PLANET like them, and there IS a breed for everyone. It's just a matter of finding the RIGHT one! Thanks for sharing ladies. ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| prariehawk |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 8:00:48 PM
Thanks, ladies, for all the info on LGD's. Since I live in town, I don't have much experience with any of them, other than Great Pyrenees. My neighbor who lives behind me had one named Boo and he was a sweetheart--though I doubt he was a very good watchdog. I've been to farms where they have one and I've never met an aggressive one. Though someone in my neighborhood has one now and it has acted aggressive towards Boxer (but not me). I would never buy a LGD except for the purpose it was bred for. Same reason why I'll never own a Border collie or a pointer or an Akita or any number of breeds that just don't do well as pets, either due to aggression or too much nervous energy. Boxers, for example, are usually very friendly towards people but can be aggressive with other dogs. They require firm but loving training as they can be quite stubborn. But once you win their love and respect, they'll do anything you ask of them. I don't think my dog would harm the kitten while I was present but if I wasn't there--I just don't know.
I hope my brother wil take the kitten, as she's aggravating my allergies. It's not too bad, just my eyes itch after I handle her and I've been sneezing more than usual. She's not at all needy like most kittens, I guess cause she was dumped and is just grateful to be taken care of. She's smart (I've already taught her to stay) and I've never trained a cat before, so I was surprised at how quickly she learns. But I've noticed that dogs and cats that have been dumped tend to learn faster, I guess out of necessity. the first dog I ever had was a stray and she never had any formal training but she never had any behavioral problems either. We lived in the country then and people let their dogs run loose and I guess the dogs just learned from each other, as all the dogs I knew as a child were friendly. There was only one dog I knew that ever bit someone, and that's because he was "protecting" his master (who was playing football and was tackled so the dog bit the kid who had tackled him). It's different now, and it seems that the dogs I know have more behavioral issues than when I was a kid.
Oh well, I've gone on too long. IF I ever move back to the country, I will carefully research what dogs go best with alpacas. And that was FUNNY about the dog who had to guard the rabbit--I can just see the look on his face: Dang! I can't eat him! I have to GUARD the little varmint!
Cindy
"Dog is my co-pilot"
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
| Windsong |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 2:26:56 PM
So this line inspires me to write of my livestock guard dog experiences. In the early 90s I moved to the country and this city girl was a little nervous (there is country all in my genes but in my life I was town raised) While I loved the country I was not at ease in the beginning. Then things started raiding the chickens and the goats. My brother and I share our land and are neighbors. One weekend we both seemed to have the same idea. He came home with two donkeys and I came home with a 7 year old Pyrenees female. She was from a breeder who was retiring her and she thought she could breed one more time. Anyway, what a weekend! we had such fun with the donkeys and the dog and they were so much smarter than we were. The dog was absolutely great and she did have a very good life from then out. I did breed her and got 3 puppies (I guess her ovaries had played out as they usually have big litters. I kept all three puppies. The last one died last year at 15 years. They were all so wonderful. I got another one three years back- her name is Sadie and she is the one my blog is based on- Sadies Farm. Through the years of having these dogs I have never had one kill a domestic animal. Really their purpose was not to kill period it was to make things leave OUR loved ones alone. Scout was a large male of the puppies and he did like to kill and partailly eat wild rabbits. A friend who raised rabbits sent one home with me, it was his daughters 4 H project and she did not want it killed. So the rabbit came home with me to live in a fine cage to provide recycled alfalfa to my garden (worked real well too). When I unloaded that rabbit, Scout just sat down and cried! I mean he really did. Now he was going to have to protect that! He was disgusted but he included the rabbit as one of his charges. They just all seemed to know if I fed and cared for it they had to protect it.
As far as mixing breeds I would not do that either with guard dog breeds but I have experienced one interesting cross. The neighbors part golden retriever and part 57 bread to Scout. Got one cute little red pyrenees looking dog. One day when he was something less than knee high my dogs ran a wild hog into the stock tank. Hog was in the water and dogs were running the banks but would not go into the water. Then, and I swear you could hear the bugle blow as the calvary came running- a streak of red that went right in that pond and chased that hog out, the big dogs took off in pursuit and ran that hog off. But there was enough pyr in the puppy to defend territory and enough golden to not mind the water.
The original female was Tiffany and she lived long and well and survived a rattlesnake bite that she took to stop a critter from being bit. Actually she took the hit from the snake but all puppies had it surounded.
Another one would walk right beside my mom to get her into the house. My mom is 87 now so she has been older all of this time. The dog would walk right beside her and if there were mud puddles he would stand over them so she had to walk around the puddle. I will tell you that the dog chooses its territory and males have large territories and it will be more than your place. All of the neighbors like that my dogs kept their animals safe. Females will be more likely to stay close to home. I found Soloman down by the road one night and thought he had been hit but when I stopped to get him there was a little dog that had been hit and killed and he was laying there with it to protect it. Not our dog- it was a stray.
I need to hush now.
So many stories like that, I just love the breed.
LaVonna
www.windsongwellnessandtherapyshoppe.com
http://sadiesfarm.blogspot.com/ |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 11:32:43 AM
No offense even THOUGHT of here Cindy! So no need to apologize. A lot of people are confused about the role Livestock Guardian dogs have on a farm. They think they are like any other dog-- but they are sooooooo NOT! Some breeds are much more people agressive than others-- some are not.
Just a suggestion here, if I may -- if you are SERIOUSLY thinking of getting an LGD, research the different breeds VERY CAREFULLY!!!! They are NOT all the same. Some are much harder to deal with than others, some are more DANGEROUS than others. If you like to entertain a lot, or you do a lot of business off your farm with people coming and going often, you want to choose your dog very carefully. Some are more tolerant of alo of "Human" traffic than others. There are some breeds that must be VERY HEAVILY socialized with people from the youngest puppyhood on-- some dogs just won't tolerate strangers PERIOD-- or even some FAMILY MEMBERS!!! (My dog does NOT like my oldest son. My guess is my son has teased him in some way. (he teases my Chihuahuas right in fron of me and THEY hate him too!) Everyone else in the family he is fine with, though he HATES HATES HATES! The smell of booze and cigarets!!! Anyone with that stench on them had better STAY AWAY!!!)
I spent an entire year reasearching the different breeds of livestock guardian animals form donkeys to llamas to LGD's. I talked to breeders, I talked to owners, and I contacted registries all across the nation. I also went on all the specific breed rescue sites to see WHY any of the Guardian dog breeds were being turned in. The breeds I saw the MOST on those sites were the Anatolian Shepherds and the Akbash-- both dogs of Turkish origin and both readily available in our area. Most of the dogs were turned in for people agression issues. I also must point out that 95% of them were male (which are usually much larger than the females) and most of them were put into the WRONG type of situation-- ie, house pets, yard pets, tied up and left alone, etc... People got them for the WRONG reasons, and it was the WRONG people buying them. Most responsible LGD breeders are very specific and very CAREFULL about who they will sell their dogs to. Many even have a "Return" policy. That is-- if the dog is NOT working out, you can return it, (not sure if you get your money back!), and they will fine it a new home. These dogs tend not to do well in a "Pound Puppy" situation and I think, if a foster home or specific breed rescue cannot be found, they are put down. No questions asked. Just like Pit Bulls in most states, and a few other very large breeds considered "agressive" and "non-redeemable."
That's why I chose the Maremma breed. I did not want a Pyrenees (very easy to find here too) becuase they have been bred in this country for so long as PETS that their guarding instincts have become more of less hit-or-miss. They are still VERY loyal, absolutely WONDERFUL dogs, but many of them would prefer to protect CHILDREN, than farm animals. The Maremma on the other hand has a very similar personality to the Pyrenees, but it's guarding instincts are MUCH stronger and almost 100% guaranteed. They still have their issues, mind you (EVERY breed, as well as every INDIVIDUAL animal, does), but I do not regret my choice of breed. Or of individual! (LOL!!) At the time, I had to go to Oregon to get my dog beucasue there were only about 2 or 3 Maremma breeders here in California. Now they are becoming more common. I do think, though, that if I get ANOTHER LGD, I will try the Pyrenees. If I get a pup young enough that Eli can teach, I think it will work out well. It's best if the "Old" dog teaches the YOUND dog the ropes since LGD's can't really be trained to do the job they are SUPPOSED to do. They are either BORN with the ability, or they are not. They don't listen to human commands much anyway, so it's pointless to even try, (other than the basics off course "come," "stay" "BACK OFF!!" and NO!!! Any more "teaching" than that makes for a VERY confused dog. And could possibly lead to MORE problems than necessary.
PS: Sorry for the lecture! But I hope it helps you think a bit about the seriousness of these dogs. I've heard too many HORROR stories from people who've "been there, done that" and lived to tell about it! SCARY!!! Oh, I hope your Sneaky tactic pays off! I'll be praying for your kitty! ~~~ Hugs ~~~ Tracy
Oh, and PSS: I would NEVER, I repeat, NEVER get a MIXED BREED livestock guardian dog. REGARDLESS of what breeds it has in it!!! It's like playing Russian Roulette-- you never know which personalities will manifest themselves in a dog of mixed LGD parentage, unless you OWN BOTH parents yourself! But that's just ME.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| prariehawk |
Posted - Jul 02 2009 : 8:19:35 PM
I looked up the Maremma Sheeepdog and though technically it is a guard dog, it's still a working dog and I guess that's what I was referring to, maybe didn't make myself clear. There are dogs that herd and dogs that guard the herd; I guess I didn't differentiate between the two. Boxers are also guard dogs and Boxer takes his duties of guarding the house very seriously. He's never bitten anyone, but if a stranger ever tried to force his way in, Boxer would be at his throat. I agree that a dog that big and with such strong guarding tendencies wouldn't make an ideal pet.some dogs need a job, like Border collies. I'm sorry if I offended you--if I ever get my five acres and an alpaca herd, I'll definately invest in a good guard dog. Probably a Hungarian Kuvasz. My cousin had a cat that was killed by a malemute, which are also notorious for chasing livestock, so I'd need a big dog to drive away those dogs that would attack my alpacas. As well as the coyotes, bobcats, etc. that are common to this region. I've watched trained police dogs at work as well as border collies and I wouoldn't want either one as a pet. I think it was donald McCaig (sp) who said that those who buy a border collie and expect it to live in the suburbs are courting sorrow.
All dogs were bred for a specific purpose and are happiest when they can pursue that purpose. Sometimes they go to extremes, which may explain why he killed the kittens. I know Boxer sometimes goes to extremes in protecting me. He wants to attack any person he sees running towards me, like a jogger. I feel safe with him and I don't think he would intentionally harm a kitten, but the kitten might do something that would trigger an instinctual response, and that would be the end of Kitty. So I'm being very careful. I had a rabbit in the past and Boxer never hurt her, but I never really gave him the opportunity. And he doesn't seem to mind if I spend some time with the Kitty, just as long as I don't sweet talk to her. So while I'm in the room playing with the kitten, I'll be talking to Boxer who's standing just outside the door. It seem sto work pretty well so far. I have a plan though--my brother and his family are coming over on Sunday for a barbecue and Warren likes cats--he has a cat named Boots, but they just got a new dog, so I don't know if he'll want another pet. But after the girls see how sweet and cute she is, it'll be hard for him to turn it down. yes, I'm sneaky--but at least I'd know she's going to a good home--if it works. So keep your fingers crossed that he'll want to adopt her. Oh, and their new dog has a CD title so she's pretty reliable around cats, even kittens. So I hope it all works out
Cindy |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Jul 02 2009 : 12:50:49 PM
My dog is actually bred to GUARD animals. He's an Italian breed of Livestock Guardian dog called a "Maremma." LGD's do not CHASE, and they do not herd. They're not like Border Collies or any of the other herding dogs. A Maremma's job is to guard the livestock, regardless of what it is, 24/7. They are VERY independant thinkers and they do not take orders from humans well. They are not PETS, but working dogs. Without a job to do.... I don't even want to THINK of what one of these dogs would be like! YIKES!!!
I think part of the problem with the kittens is that dogs can only see black and white, and, since black and white cats would be the most noticable, those are the ones he has issues with. And kittens are much more vulnerable than grown cats. He doesn't bother any of the other kittens and cats, but they are all some color OTHER than black and white. (orange, orange/white, cream/white, light colored tabbies and blue/gray) We had another dog years ago (a Lab/German Shorthair mix) that would ONLY kill my black and white Lakenvelder chickens, and anything ELSE that was black and white. He never really bothered the other colored birds. Weird. Just plain WEIRD!!!!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| Alee |
Posted - Jul 01 2009 : 8:47:21 PM
We had a black lab/aussie shep mix that would kill kittens. It was so sad because we had a few feral cats that would come give birth in our yard or the next yard so she got quite a few before we figured out what was killing them.
I think you have a great solution to just keep everyone seperated until a new home is found. Good luck finding another home...that kitty is so lucky to have such a caring rescuer.
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.awarmheart.com
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
Put your pin on the farmgirl map! www.farmgirlmap.blogspot.com |
| prariehawk |
Posted - Jul 01 2009 : 8:30:15 PM
Yes, I'm definately trying to find a home for the kitten. She plays very well by herself so she's not too demanding. I feel sorry for her cause i can't spend more time with her (which makes my dog jealous) so she really deserves a home where she can receive more attention. I've had her a little over a week and she's looking a lot better. I wouldn't want Boxer to hurt or kill her --he did "attack" a cat he found in the garage once but he didn't hurt it, just scared it. But it was a big cat with sharp claws. And he once picked up one of my parakeets in his mouth but he didn't hurt it. I think feathers must feel strange to him. But he really has a grudge against all cats--they like to sit on the other side of the fence when he's outside and torment him by staring at him. (Evil Kitty!)LOL i'll find a home for her eventually--and I always make sure the door to the spare bedroom is securely shut before I leave the house. It's not like he can open it--he's smart, but not that smart. I'm sorry about your dog attacking your kittens--the way I see it, it's just some dogs' natures to attack small animals. Larger animals like sheep, etc. have been herded by dogs for so many centuries that the dog is less likely to attack it. But dogs have been bred to hunt small animals. Boxer has seen goats and llamas and he's been friendly with them. So maybe your dog has that herding instinct and that's why he watches over the lambs. He might even see cats as potential predators who will attack his lambs--I don't know for sure but if you observe him long enough, you'll find your answer. As for why only the black and white ones--i haven't a clue.
Cindy |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Jun 30 2009 : 10:00:01 PM
I have had a problem with my LGD, Eli and BLACK AND WHITE kittens. I don't know what it is with him and cats of that color, especially KITTENS, but.... Last year he actually killed one. There were three kittens given to me, two orange and white and one black and white. Eli killed the black and white, which was my favorite.
A few days ago he got ahold of ANOTHER black and white kitten-- she must have followed her mother to the barn because that's where I found her. Unless Eli grabbed her and took her out there himself. Anyway, she was still alive, but she had a puncture wound on her chest just under one front leg and she was crippled from the middle of her back down.
It's so surprising because this is a dog that LOVES babies of all kinds! He watches over my lambs and my kids and even the baby chicks! He even had his OWN lamb a few years ago. Her mother abandoned her at birth so the dog adopted her. He was "Mom" (I bottle fed her of course) until she died suddenly from a bad case of bloat. (the only one we've ever had in 11yrs of raising sheep) He litterally grieved for two weeks over the loss of that lamb. That's why I can't understand why he harmed those kittens. But ONLY the black and white ones!!
Maybe it IS best that you find another home for the kitty Cindy. You REALLY don't want to have a situation like I'VE had here. Good luck to you and the kitty! Hope all turns out for the best. ~~~ Hugs ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| Bear5 |
Posted - Jun 30 2009 : 7:11:03 PM
I hope you find a good home for the dog. My dog doesn't like my two inside cats, but he just ignores them. The cats are forever picking at him. He'll sit in his special chair and one of the cats takes a flying leap from across the room and lands on the chair, and Luck-Dog hauls butt off super fast. At night the cats sleep with me, and Luck sleeps on his chair.
Marly
"It's only when we truly know and understand that we have a limited time on earth- and that we have no way of knowing when our time is up- that we will begin to live each day to the fullest, as if it was the only one we had." Elisabeth Kurler-Ross |
| Alee |
Posted - Jun 30 2009 : 1:03:39 PM
Cindy- at least he hasn't made attempts at her yet. Hopefully that is a good sign!
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.awarmheart.com
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
Put your pin on the farmgirl map! www.farmgirlmap.blogspot.com |
| prariehawk |
Posted - Jun 30 2009 : 11:19:54 AM
Cheryl-thanks for the link. I hope Boxer will come to accept her as he accepts my birds and never tries to harm them. What worries me is that the kitten has no sense of fear around Boxer-she was rubbing her head against his leg and he got SO tense that I had to grab his collar--I thought he was going to lose it. I used to have a rabbit and Boxer never could be trusted around her--I think it was something about the way the rabbit hopped--it just set him off. He DOES seem to realize that the kitten is just a baby but there are limits to what he'll tolerate. Oh well, maybe in time he'll get used to her. I hate keeping her locked in the spare bedroom but it's for her own good. And she's so small that I worry about stepping on her--oh, this is amusing--I kept hearing a squeaking sound and I just realized that she's playing with the squeaky toy I got for her. i'm glad she's enjoying herself as I can't give her as much attention as I'd like to. Hopefully they'll both come to accept each other.
Cindy
"Dog is my co-pilot"
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
| Alee |
Posted - Jun 30 2009 : 07:36:53 AM
A hyper sensitive dog? Yes! Sky wouldn't look at Nora at all and I mean she would strain against us if we tried to make her look at the baby- when we first brought her home. That lasted about 3 months. Then when I leave she won't eat and she will potty in the house! :(
Alee
Farmgirl Sister #8
www.awarmheart.com
www.farmgirlalee.blogspot.com
www.allergyjourneys.blogspot.com
Put your pin on the farmgirl map! www.farmgirlmap.blogspot.com |
| Tapestry |
Posted - Jun 30 2009 : 01:05:44 AM
Oh gosh....this one is a toughie. I did find a site that might have an answer for you. I hope it helps.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2148767_dog-accept-cat.html
Happy farmgirl sister #353
Look for rainbows instead of mud puddles 
http://fantasm01.imagekind.com/
http://tapestrysimaginings.blogspot.com/ |
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