| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| idsweetie72 |
Posted - Mar 27 2009 : 6:25:25 PM
I am very new to raising Nubian Goats. As in, I bought our first 3 does Feb.3, was given a 3 day old boer buck March 14, and just got 3 little nubians last Thursday.
I did all the research, read tons of articles, books, ect- BUT- my little Boer has the scours- and the probios isn't helping to clear it up. I wasn't really worried the first week or so because of the stress of transporting him and he was so young- but shouldn't that have cleared up by now? All three babies get fresh goats milk 2x a day, and I have to supplement with Kid Replacer the other 2x- I think soon I can cut down the Boer to only 3x a day- but not right now-
What do you think? What should I do? I haven't given ANY of these babies shots- but of course their previous people had given the mamas shots- so- I am at a loss!
Mazy Day Farm |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Apr 06 2009 : 12:01:28 AM
Sandra-- My boy is doing well. He's now up to TWO gallons of milk replacer a day and is nibbling at the hay.
Our little girl calf ("Ellie Mae") is just a HOOT!!! She gets out of the pen she shares with her mom, and every evening when I'm in the barn feeding everyone and giving Cash his bottles, she will rip around the hay stack like crazy. She chases my Chihuahuas and they chase her. They have me laughing every day. If I'm going to have trouble with EITHER calf when they grow up, MY money is on her! Sure wish I could post pictures, they both are just too cute!!
Hey, I've got one question-- why does Cash "cry" when I feed him? Every time I give him his bottle he tears up and they start to run down his face. It kinda makes me sad. Anybody know what that's all about?
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Apr 05 2009 : 11:53:51 PM
Joelle-- don't worry, I know how dangerous bulls can be! If Cash proves to be a mean one (which I honestly don't feel that he WILL be), he can just as well go in the freezer. I would more than likely cry my eyes out since he's MY bottle baby, but I REFUSE to have a mean animal on the farm no matter WHAT it is, or how much of a hand I've had in raising it. It wouldn't be the first time a beloved critter has met that fate-- I doubt it will be the last....
Several years ago my son brought home a Holstein calf (steer) that I ended up raising for a year and a half. He had never been de-horned and actually thought he was a DOG! I was the only one who could handle him -- and even I didn't trust him! Holstiens are NOT known for their "Pleasant dispositions" and "Newman" was no exception. It was only after he litterally DRAGGED my husband home from a neighboring farm (he liked to visit their cows-- OFTEN) that he was finally locked up safely and no longer a MENACE to the community. I told my husband I was DONE taking care of him. After several months my husband got tired of caring for him and sent him elswhere.
So... I'm not completely in the dark about a bull. Once Cash is weaned from the bottle, he will be my HUSBAND'S responsibility, not mine. DH was raised on this farm, a working dairy for many years, and he also worked for other dairymen growing up, so he knows how to deal with cows and bulls. Personally, I was all for learning to do AI on the cows so we WOULDN'T need a bull around, but DH pitched a fit and said "Absolutely NOT!" Don't know why-- I'M the one who would have been doing the dirty work (eewwwww!!!!! But it's preferable to taking the chances with a bull!) Anyway, I'm just going to take it one day at a time. And trust me... I'll NEVER turn my back on Cash, no matter WHAT his personality turns out to be like!!!!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| idsweetie72 |
Posted - Apr 05 2009 : 8:26:41 PM
Lol- no worries Tracy! I am learning a lot! And my baby boy is doing fine- still not as solid as I'd like- but so much better! And now he has friends so I am busy, busy, busy! Hope your boy is doing well!
Mazy Day Farm |
| Joelle |
Posted - Apr 05 2009 : 12:34:26 PM
Tracy, the Jersey bulls are suppose to be some of the most dangerous. Many farmers have been killed by them. A friend of mine had one that chased him up a tree. We have 2 that are used as 'heat indicators'. They have never caused us any problems, though. I am extremely cautious around all of the bulls. Always watch your back.
~Joelle~
I do the best that I can, and that is the best that I can do. |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Apr 03 2009 : 10:20:23 AM
Sandra-- I did NOT mean to make YOUR thread about ME! I don't know HOW that happened!!! So sorry!
I sincerely hope your little guy is doing VERY well now and any advice you picked up through the course of this forum chatter will help you in all your endeavors (and your CRAAAZY journey) with your goats! There is so much to learn from this site isn't there?!!
And Grace-- Your words are ALWAYS appreciated, no matter the topic. I'm glad too, that things worked out for "Mother Goose" and her boys-- LOVE the name. It's FABULOUS and brings such a picture to my mind!!!! (LOL!!) Hugs~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Apr 03 2009 : 10:14:36 AM
Oh Grace-- if you saw my "Medicine kit" you'd be surprised. You won't find any "Chemical" remedies. You will find tea tree oil (which is TOXIC to cats, so don't ever use it on them!), apple cider vinegar, triple antibiotic ointment, aloe vera gel, Diotomacious earth etc.... and all have served me (AND the critters!) well when needed.
There is so much I could say on this topic, but it all boils down to this-- I have a VERY close relationship with my animals. I spend each and every day with them and know their personalities, their little quirks and idiosyncrasies, and I KNOW when something is not right with one of them. I believe God gave me pretty good instincts when it comes to animals and I have this uncanny ability to KNOW what will help them get better-- though not ALWAYS. I've had my share of losses, but anyone who spends their life on a farm faces that sad fact of farm life. -- no matter HOW CAREFUL we are! We can't save them all, but a good shepherd doesn't give up without a fight.
Honestly, I welcome the advice of others-- I don't take it all as GOSPEL, and I CERTAINLY don't let anyone BULLY, or "GUILT factor" me into doing ANYTHING -- but I do listen with an open mind. In the end though, I ALWAYS go with my own gut instinct-- whether it be MY ideas, or someone elses'. I do what works for the critters. If "Natural" won't do, I'm not afraid to use a commercial product-- especially if it makes the difference between LIFE & DEATH!!! But I'm not quick to reach for MAN-MADE if a more natural approach will work just as well.
I also don't breed, just to breed, nor do I breed inferior stock-- at least not INTENTIONALLY. I learned the HARD WAY, when I first got my sheep, what can happen in a "Genetically unsound" line. It was DEVASTATING, frustrating and HEARTBREAKING!!! No fault of my own, or the people I bought the animals from-- it was "just one of those things." But I learned A LOT from that experience. In all the years I've had my animals (EVERY SINGLE farm animal imaginable, except cows), I've learned so much. I have made my share of mistakes, I've conquered my share of problems, and I've LEARNED what works best for the animals on my farm. If any of us are incapable of that, (learning that is), then we have NO BUSINESS raising livestock!!!
You and I, Grace, have learned that "Natural" does NOT mean "EASY." It's A LOT of work, patience, tears and prayers, but the success of it is VERY rewarding isn't it? Keep doing what you're doing there, your animals will thank you for it!! And they will be rewarded with good health.
Oh, and Joelle-- Cash is SUPPOSED to be a Jersey/Brown Swiss X, but he looks more like a STRAIGHT Jersey to me! But then, I'm fairly new to cows, so he could very well be a mix. Whatever he is, he sure is CUTE!! And so mellow! I just hope he STAYS that way-- especially since my husband wants to use him as a breeding bull!!! Hugs to all ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Apr 03 2009 : 07:26:16 AM
I understand where Joelle is coming from. In making the switch from the regular way of raising animals to a more holistic way did not happen over night. Do not also think that I would not move heaven and earth to save an animal including medications but I also found that if we bred on sound stock, understand their needs, keep their management close to what Mother Nature provides then we can have animals thrive without all the medicated feeds, shots, expensive bangals and bongals.
As perfect example is the set of twin Angora babies that was born to my Mother Goose early in the week - the black and white male was no getting the hang of nursing at all. I waited for a day and a half - sitting in the barn round the clock. The issue was mom's bag was so big that the kid could not figure out how or where it was. She is a good mom and the other kid figured it out. What I did was start giving her raspberry leaves each time I went in the pen. give the little one about an ounce of goat's milk. After a day of that she would let me milk her out some and then I started to sour the milk. Now the little one was wrapped in a blanket at each feeding so he did not get my scent, he would run to me because he noticed the smell on my boots so on the last two feeding I came in the pen with white plasic big bags over my boots and the last feeding he rejected the bottle, went running to mom and nursed like there was no tomorrow. Now I understand most large breeds would never take that time but I found with just a little bit of extra work and know how you can do wonders. Now he is a strong eater, he is completely bonded with Mom and Brother and Mother Goose is happy with me.
Good luck and remember there is no one here telling you not to use what you have to to have a healthy animal.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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| Joelle |
Posted - Apr 02 2009 : 3:41:36 PM
I think a blend of the old and new works best. Many calves today are saved by modern antibiotics. We have a better chance of curing the pneumonia, scours or hoof rot. We can vaccinate against blackleg, lockjaw, pinkeye, etc. One shot of some of the newer antibiotics lasts 14 days so you dont have to keep catching the animal and stressing it out. However I dont like growth hormones, animal byproducts or antibiotics in feed. I think you need to respect the animals and treat them kindly. Its unfortunate that its not the way of the corporate farms.
Tracy, what kind of calve do you have?
I do the best that I can, and that is the best that I can do. |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Apr 02 2009 : 09:16:23 AM
Thanks for the tips Joelle. I will keep them in mind. And, in all honesty, I trust the judgement of those "Old time" ranchers for ALL livestock breeds. They didn't have all the "Fancy" stuff for critters that we have now (medicated feeds, special supplements etc..) and they raised some AWSOME, healthy stock back then. They really knew what they were doing didn't they?
"Cash" is doing well. His diarrhea has cleared up and he's as busy as can be! I have been giving him only 1 1/2 scoops of milk replacer, 1 egg and a tblsp of electrolyte powder twice a day. (I've tried to add a thrid feeding, but he was not too interested.... ? don't get it, but I'm not going to force it on him)
I'm not too worried about salmonella since our eggs are "homegrown," not store bought. I will be omitting it from his bottles and upping the replacer powder over the next few days, AND adding a source of live microbes. I have been thinking about plain yogurt instead of the probios powder. I feed it to my "special needs" kitty for tummy trouble (along with a few other supplements) and it seems to really help. It's natural, pasturized, and MUCH cheaper than the powdered alternative, not that I would't be willing to use it-- and I already have some-- but I thought the yogurt might add a few MORE beneficial aspects to Cash's diet. Anyone else ever try that?
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| Joelle |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 10:27:16 PM
Tracy, bloody diarhea in calves is usually an indication of coccidiosis if the calf is 3 weeks or older. Coccidiousis is in the soil and once you have it every calf will get it. We use a drench for it but I cant remember the name right off. It sounds like your calf just has the plain old scours from the stress of being moved. Other causes can be too much milk, changing brands of milk replacer, a virus, etc. I used to take away the milk and just give electrolytes for dehydration but that took too long. Now when we have one scouring we give one shot of NuFlor (an antibiotic) and follow with a probiotic for the gut. Works much quicker. He sounds like he is adjusting. BTW, giving raw eggs to calves is an old remedy used by cattlemen for calves that are weak. It works pretty well but you have to worry about salmonella now.
I do the best that I can, and that is the best that I can do. |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 08:32:54 AM
Oh Sandra... his true personality is coming out! Like your little goat, my little calf is full of jumping beans and curiosity! I can't keep him in with the cow and the other calf. He likes to hang out in the barn with my LGD, Eli. Eli thinks he's the BIGGEST baby he's ever seen (he's used to goat kids and lambs), but he's sure taken the calf "under his wing." It's funny to watch them together since the calf is almost as big as the dog.
Aren't babies just WONDERFUL! Especially when they are healthy and feeling good. Hugs to you and your little guy from me and my (BIG!) little guy ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| idsweetie72 |
Posted - Mar 30 2009 : 10:45:25 AM
He seems to be- and today is bright and sunny so he is out frolicking with the other babies! Hope the baby calf gets better every day!
Mazy Day Farm |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Mar 30 2009 : 09:01:29 AM
I was thinking about the Molasses too Grace. It made more sense to me than Honey. I haven't used the Honey because I wasn't comfortable with the idea either. I use the electrolyte powder instead. I have been doing the egg though (one egg mixed in 2qts of liquid). I don't see that it's doing any harm. In fact, he's getting more lively by the day and I think it's actually helping to make his poo a little more solid. Kind of like a "binder." Trust me, I am watching him VERY closely. When we first got him I felt he was a little TOO docile for a 4 day old calf, but he's certainly starting to "act up" more now. In fact, I'm usually chasing TWO calves around the barn trying to get them back in their pen.
Thanks for your input Grace-- oh, and I have some of those Livestock herbal books too. I looked up the "cure" for scours and it recommends Red Clover. I will have to see if my local Health food store carries any. If I need it, I'll certainly give it a try. Thanks agian-- and Sandra, I hope your little goat is doing much better now too!! ~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Mar 28 2009 : 6:54:24 PM
Not too sure about the egg - I would be concerned that this is not something that would be close to their natural feeding structure. Honey is also a pathway to issues in animals who do not eat sweets. If I was to give something for quick energy it would be black strap molasses. The apple cider vinegar is a good thing for worms but I think for someone who is just born and eating I would not be so concerned about worms. I again would have to see how the animal was brought into the world and how well the mothers where kept. If you had a mother who was weak or unkept the little one will be struggling and playing catch up.
Let me know if you are still needing info - I can get to the herbal remedies books to look up other possibilities.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Mar 28 2009 : 6:10:18 PM
Got a question for you Grace-- what about adding yogurt to the replacer? (for the live bacteria) and a dash of cider vinegar? (antibiotic properties)
I found a recipe on "Mother Earth News" website for feeding bottle calves so I've been giving it a try mixing replacer, 1 raw egg (for the extra protien) and about a tablespoon or so of electrolyte mix, (the recipe calls for a tablespoon of honey and sometimes I use that instead) The calf's scours seem to be clearing up with this mixture. Do you think it would work for Sandra's baby goat? They are BOTH ruminants after all.... hmmm..... Just wondering what you thought of it. ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| grace gerber |
Posted - Mar 28 2009 : 12:49:06 PM
Hi there sounds like you are getting some good advice - here are a few tricks I have found works.
First the replacers are not the kindest to those tummies. When I do supplement goats I give them 1/3 replacer, l/3 goats milk and l/3 Pedalite (Yes the kind you give two legged kids). The pedalite keeps things in balance, had no sugars and stuff that will upset the stomach and adds with electrolites. Next, if the scours go for more then a day I also mix about a teaspoon of Kaopectate (regular no flavor) to each feeding. I have also been known to mix just about a teaspoon of Rice cereal if they are over the age of one month to assist in calming their stomach.
Now also I would make it so they are not drinking too much, that the replacer is not too hot or cold. I know that if you are feeding them in bucket/nipple form they can drink too fast and too much and that will keep their stomachs really upset. I only feed by baby bottle. Yes, I know it is time consuming but that way I can track the amounts and progress for each little one. After all these years I have elimated scours completely.
Also, with the breeders I would talk with them about their program, shots, feed, breeding and such (which I am sure you did before you purchased) but revist and explain the issue you are having and they should help you out. Folks do not understand that change in homes can throw animals for a real loop so any changes so go slowly and in small steps. Let me know what else I might do to assist and keep us in the loop. We will do are best.
Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio
Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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| idsweetie72 |
Posted - Mar 28 2009 : 10:13:35 AM
Thanks to all! I'm keeping a close eye on it- I'll try the eletrolites- see what that does- and the fecal sample as well- all of the babies are happy and running and jumping around like crazy- they are adorable- and my boer, (hereafter called Big Daddy), runs and jumps and plays as much as the other 2- and there never was any blood or snotty nose- so I am relieved about that!
I'll keep ya'll updated!
Mazy Day Farm |
| ponypower |
Posted - Mar 28 2009 : 09:28:50 AM
Hi Sandra,
If it were me I would take a fecal to my vet and ask them to test for cocidia (sp?) just in case. My little lambs had gotten that from the herd they were in and nothing I did helped their scours until I treated them for cocidia. Good to rule it out and if they did have it, good to treat it soon as possible.
Good luck to you!
Lily |
| southerncrossgirl |
Posted - Mar 28 2009 : 05:52:40 AM
Sandra, I agree with Tracy. I have had that problem before. Try doing everything Tracy said. As long as you stay on top of it, you should have a good outcome.
Hope to hear good news from you.
"A Dream Is A Wish Your Heart Makes"==Cinderella |
| shepherdgirl |
Posted - Mar 27 2009 : 9:28:06 PM
Hey Sanda-- I'm having the SAME problem with a bottle calf. I know the replacer can cause scours sometimes. I fed him some Medicated milk replacer for 2 days and that cleared up the BLOODY scours -- AND the snotty nose that was starting-- but he's still pretty watery. At least there's no more blood and he's MUCH bouncier and more excited about nursing than he was when we got him just a few days ago. I think he was already starting to get sick. I think I managed to head off the WORST of it! (Fingers Crossed!)
I've read that you should try mixing LESS replacer powder with more water, (I'm doing a scoop and a half, as opposed to two full scoops) and substituting at least one -- possibly 2-- feedings with Electolyte mix in water instead of milk replacer. I've never had this problem before-- not even with my bottle lambs, so I'd like to know what the EXPERT ladies here have to say too! I know we could BOTH use the good advice.
Hope your baby clears up soon!!! ~~~ Tracy
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin |
| doglady |
Posted - Mar 27 2009 : 8:12:36 PM
Have you tried to call the previous owners, if they raise goats, and ask them about it? Might be worth a try.
Tina
You can tell your dog all of your secrets and they'll never say a word!
www.kennelcreations.com |
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