| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 06:36:40 AM
Not me, girls--I'm happily married to my wee girl's poppa, but my father in-law and mother in law are separating and they are very much a big part of our lives and that of our 4 year old. She spends every Monday and Thursday at Gramma Jane and PaPa's house. This seems to be my mil's lead, as she has already bought a house and has plans to be moved out by June's end. I am so sad for them--my heart is truly heavy. They've done counseling and tried other things to no avail. They have one son at home, my brother in law, who is 23 and he doesn't know it yet.
I love them both, but in all honesty, I have seen some change in my fil in the last 2 years or so since his retirement. He's incredibly "vacant" and spends most of his time alone or going somewhere on a trip by himself and has shut her out of his life other than to be critical about the way she keeps house, or something like that.
I am pained by it very much. But, I am struggling with a way to explain this my 4 year old. How do I explain to her now that Papa lives "here" and Gramma Jane lives "here". Or do I explain? Do I wait until I see if this is a permanent settlement? She's not a kid you can snow or placate. She's a very emotional, sensitive and caring child and I don't want this to weigh on her more than need be or for her to worry about it because she has a tendency to dwell on things that frighten or make her sad.
My fil thought he might have a family conference with my husband, my sil, her husband and children, but I think that's unnecessary. My husband already knows and I think my fil should tell his daughter and it's up to us how we handle it among our families.
The separation is as amiable as I guess it could be--she said she wants them to be friends, something they haven't been in some time and that perhaps, this absence might remind him that he loves her.
Any advice is greatly appreciated. My parents were married until my mother was a widow--so this is all unchartered territory for me.
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| jpbluesky |
Posted - Jun 27 2013 : 12:37:13 PM
One comment that Ninibini made struck me.....your little gal might wonder if this will happen to mommy and daddy too, and if you just make her feel solid and secure with her parents, then she can face the other changes in life with you two beside her.
Thinking of you. Praying too.
Farmgirl #31
www.blueskyjeannie.blogspot.com
Psalm 51: 10-13 |
| Rosemary |
Posted - Jun 26 2013 : 5:06:36 PM
Yes, keep it simple. Think "age-appropriate". Little kids only need to be told that gramma and grampa live in two different places now. They might ask why, and you can just say they like it better that way. As they get older, they'll figure it out and they won't hold it against you that you told lies, because you didn't. |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Jun 24 2013 : 09:51:54 AM
I agree--excellent advice, for sure, Denise.
It is a trial separation--my mil is hoping that, after she's moved out, he will see that life is better when she's there. She's simply tired of being taken for granted and treated like she's invisible or alternately, the source of his frustration of the moment. I know it's been a long time coming. The house she purchased could be a wonderful rental if she ends up coming home.
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
| levisgrammy |
Posted - Jun 24 2013 : 07:36:29 AM
Jonni~ I don't have any words of wisdom for you, but you have been given some excellent counsel here. I just want you to know I will be praying for you all and your in laws. I did notice you said separation, not divorce. Two different things and hopefully they will find something during this time to bring them back together.
farm girl sister#43
http://www.ladybugsandlilacs.blogspot.com/
O, a trouble's a ton or a trouble's an ounce,
Or a trouble is what you make it!
And it isn't the fact that you're hurt that counts,
But only--how did you take it?
--Edmund C. Vance.
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| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Jun 24 2013 : 05:49:47 AM
Ruby,
I think you're very right about my FIL. He has always gone to counseling, but retiremend combined with the death of both his parents in a matter of 2 years really sent him into a tailspin. Historically, he's a person who wouldn't tell you he was hot if he was on fire. And, unfortunately, I believe that has been the demise of this marriage. Women, by nature, are talkers. Not all, but most, and he seems to belittle communication, as if shouldering all that weight somehow makes it go away. I see it in my husband, too--that's how he was taught or learned by omission, to deal with issues. Unfortunately, it's just shoving them down and they always come back to the surface.
With the death of my FIL's mother, there was a heck of a lot of baggage there. Apparently...he never liked her. He saw her (as he got older) as a vindictive, manipulating woman who put her ego and image before anyone else. I'm certain that stems from his marriage to my husband's mother--it failed miserably. It might have been better for all involved had he been allowed to call off the wedding like he wanted to--he told his mother 2 days before that he was certain he didn't want to get married, that it was a mistake, and she told him that he would bring shame on the family, "Father Kenny flew in from Ireland just to perform the ceremony!!!" and that it would be an embarrassment to the family so, essentially, the "show must go on." That and a number of other things led him to see her in a very ugly light. But, he's never dealt with that and when she died, that left a very raw place in him. Of course, none of us knew the backstory there until several months after her burial when, casually in conversation, he said, "I detested my mother." I swore I hadn't heard him right and didn't respond, but a few weeks later, it snuck into the conversation again and there you have it. Unresolved issues with deep past experiences that have, unfortunately, rendered him unable to communicate and now his marriage is suffering for it.
Mrs. Tracy-
How funny that story! Totally cringeworthy--especially as a kid at Burger King. You think you're just going to get a burger but...
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
| MrsTracy |
Posted - Jun 20 2013 : 1:41:24 PM
I can't help but smile at that story. The hubby took our son to Burger King to have the "talk." Midway through the meal DJ put his sandwich down, looked his daddy in the eye and said, "TMI, daddy, TMI!!!"
Aspiring Titus II and Proverbs 31 Lady. |
| Ruby V |
Posted - Jun 20 2013 : 09:40:08 AM
It kind of sounds like your FIL might be going thru some sort of depression. It can happen when a guy retires and suddenly feels useless and like his life is over. Maybe he should seek some counseling?
I agree with keeping it simple on what you tell your daughter. My grandson is 4 too and I know he wouldn't even begin to understand the concept of divorce, or even of a couple 'not loving each other anymore'.
I think it's a good idea to play up the 'grandma's got a neat new house' angle. If you just start referring to - we're going to grandma's new house or... we're going over to grandpa's house today, it might not really even dawn on her that anything has happened, other than grandma got a new house. She might not even realize that not seeing the two of them together at the same time means something is 'wrong'.
If you are at grandpa's house and she asks where's grandma? just be cheerful and say - oh, she's over at her nice new house, and see how your daughter takes it. Chances are she'll just go on playing and not give it a second thought.
I'd wait and see if she asks any questions or seems to notice things are different. I'd be afraid if I tried to explain about love and broken relationships, it could just confuse her and maybe even lead to some feelings of anxiety. Let us know how things go! Hang in there!
Ruby ~ Sister #3597 |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Jun 10 2013 : 08:23:25 AM
Ingrid, I think that's a good consensus. I even recall my mother in law laughingly telling me how my brother in law, then 10, asked her about the birds and the bees and she went into this somewhat lengthy description, all the while watching his expression get more and more "pinched" and then he said, "Geez, mom, I didn't need to know all that stuff, I just wanted to know the basics."
It's been really evident, and our girl is very perceptive. I'm sure she has noticed a change. I really need to keep my husband in check at this point about what and how we are going to tell her. Since he is emotionally involved it's tough for him to be objective, but he'll have to remember that she needn't know the backline.
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
| Ingrid |
Posted - Jun 10 2013 : 08:18:10 AM
Different circumstances but similiar. I was divorced when my children were five, three and new baby. The counsellor said keep explanations simple and answer questions when she asks and only answer what she asks. Counsellor said as adults we tend to give more details than children ask for. Kids are smart and my guess she has already noticed that life with her grandparents is different. Good luck.
Give thanks to yourself everyday for all the wonderful things you do! |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Jun 10 2013 : 08:02:05 AM
I very much appreciate Nini's ardent advice on prayer. I believe in it and I believe it does help--helps me be aware and to listen for the right direction. It's so difficult and it has me really raw, so I'm trying not to be overly emotional when and if we speak about it again.
My husband is a little iffy at the moment. I could hardly get him to discuss it and now he seems a bit angry. But, I'm not sure at who--his step mother or his father. Likely both. He thinks that his father is a failure at relationships and that his stepmother is being too quick to leave. I think we don't live in their house so we simply can't judge. As a child of (a potential) divorce the second time, he really struggles with the lack of communication by his parents and is frustrated that his father talked with him, but noone else and certainly not their own son, who is, at this point, still in the dark. I'm sure, though, if he's been "present", it would come as no surprise, and he might likely be relieved.
I'm the one who just wants to believe that they both still love each other in some way and that, if it's meant to be, they will reconnect and if not, then we will all support them in whatever way we can.
I appreciate all the input and feedback. I am trying to feel hopeful, but am struggling. Praying helps me with that, too.
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
| nubidane |
Posted - Jun 09 2013 : 2:23:55 PM
Jonni
Nin is giving you such touching advice, & like she and Joey said, keep it simple. I remember when I was in training to be a Stephen Minister, they told us the most important thing to do was to listen, and to also appreciate silence in a conversation. I have found that when I am talking to someone with a serious issue, that I try to take a step back, think before I speak, & even let there be long pauses where no one speaks. That allows both the time to think. Not sure if that will help with a child, but try & give her the bare minimum, and if she has questions past that, answer simply.
Did that make sense at all???
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.” – R.R. |
| MagnoliaWhisper |
Posted - Jun 08 2013 : 11:06:01 AM
I didn't read every thing I don't have time. But, this is coming from some one who's BTDT! (ME). I have a step grandfather that my grandmother married/divorced several times. He's been in and out of my fathers life, my father's whole LIFE! (my grandpa and grandma divorced when my dad was 6 months old). Any way....my grandma would marry my step grandfather, then divorce, marry other people-divorce, re-marry step grandfather, and on and on it went. Well, when I was about 2 they divorced. Up to that point I seen the both together a lot, etc. I don't know what they told me about it or anything. But, I know they got back together when I was 4. And they said I remembered him right away and life went on. I don't remember any one having any talks with me about it or anything...just went on with life. They never divorced again after that. My bio grandpa committed suicide when I was 9, my oldest little brother was only 1. So the only grandpa we have every had was this one step grandfather. Grandma died about 10 years ago....step grandpa....we still pick him up and bring him to our homes regularly, he was in my little brothers wedding, etc. My point is, it may not be perm they may get back together...I wouldn't expand much on it....just answer what she ask...no prompting. And if he doesn't come back...well I think that's also part of life, we all have friends/family we are close to and do lots of things with, and then eventually those relationships fade...and before you know it we aren't seeing them any more...and no one really questions much about it...just kind of goes on as that's part of life. That's one reason I only chose my siblings and CLOSE relatives to be in my wedding. I told my sister that...because I said my best friend now may not even be in my life 10 years from now. My sister really didn't believe me. Because my dad has a RARE relationship with his best friend since Kindergarten, they are STILL best friends and have always been for nearly 60 years. But, most people don't have a friend like that. Although I must say I do still have my same best friends from 12 years ago when I married...however, funny that my sister didn't believe me, and sure enough the best friends she would of chose for her wedding party are here and there and every where and not really in her life any more.
http://www.heathersprairie.blogspot.com |
| Ninibini |
Posted - Jun 08 2013 : 09:28:18 AM
I just love you girls - you're so dear to my heart!
Jonni, I know that we share the same faith, so please allow me to speak to your faith and try to help renew it right now. I really do understand how painful this is. Always remember there IS hope and that there IS power in prayer. Always remember that God doesn't give up, even when we feel like there is no longer reason to hope. "God will make a way when there seems to be no way. He works in ways we cannot see... With love and strength for each new day, He will make a way." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zo3fJYtS-o
Accepting what is happening right now is so hard, but in no way does that mean you should give up hope. Nor should your mother-in-law or even your father-in-law. This is not an easy time of life for anyone at all. Sometimes change is necessary to bring about even greater change. Your MIL sounds like she needs great respite and time to heal from the pain of the distance that has grown between her and your father-in-law. She sounds like such a lovely person - so full of life and love. It breaks my heart to know that she is in so much pain, and just doesn't feel loved by him or that there is any hope. I have been there, and it is a very dark place. But there IS hope - there is ALWAYS hope when God is the third chord of the marital strand. And I cannot begin to imagine what your father-in-law is going through, nor what has transpired between them, but I am venturing to think that he is in a lot of pain, too. You, however, are a very special gift to them, Jonni - your heart sees and loves far beyond the circumstance. That kind of love and caring brings about healing. You are such a blessing to everyone in your life, and you probably don't even realize the impact you have in easing hearts and minds and in lifting up spirits. God put you exactly where you are in this heartbreaking circumstance for a very special purpose - He believes in YOU. (So do I!) Have faith and pray without ceasing. Whenever the thought of what is happening hits your heart, just pray. Ask God for wisdom as to how to handle things, ask Him how to help your loved ones, and ask Him to heal this broken situation. Then take a deep, calming breath and wait until you to hear His voice. I assure you, He will speak to your heart, guide you and answer your prayers. And please take heart, because your amazing gift of love will bring about great blessing and healing in your family in amazing ways. Even though you may not have the right words, even though you may not know the way, the love in your heart will overflow, speaking volumes of hope and bringing joy where there is sadness. I believe that with all my heart.
You and your loved ones may not be able to fix things, but He definitely can, so never give up hope. I speak from experience. The fabric of their marriage may be thread bare or even shredded beyond recognition. But God is the third chord in their marriage; He is the strand that is stronger than any damage that has occurred. He is the Master Weaver who can repair the irreparable and turn tattered fabric into beautiful tapestry. I know all too well that when faced with such painful circumstances, we forget that He is in our midst; but that doesn't change the fact that He is there working behind the scenes on our behalf to bring about good. Even though we cannot mend the hurt and brokenness ourselves, God CAN. And even if things turn out differently than everyone hopes, God is still there and will make things good and mend everything that needs fixing. As they say, He transforms broken pots into works of beauty. Take it from one former seriously broken pot - His work in us is amazing!
I know that it is so hard to see beyond the circumstance and believe that anything will ever be good and normal again. It's scarey, it hurts deeply and it feels utterly devastating. We must remember that healing takes its own time - not ours; and that it takes all the time it needs. So, for now, let's just pray and wait on the Lord. I'll be right there praying along side you in spirit. I promise.
I would like to recommend a book for your mother-in-law by Stormie Omartian. It's called, "The Power of a Praying Wife." Her insights really helped me through a seemingly impossible time in our marriage, and the prayers she shared truly helped guide my own. She has also written many other books that may be of interest to you as well.
If you ever need to talk in a more personal, private way, I'm here for you. Please email me any time, and if you need to talk, I'll send you my number.
Love you, sister. Stay strong and keep the faith.
Hugs,
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 12:22:48 PM
Thanks, Joey--I really love my husband's family. It's a weird one, I guess, when I describe it to other people, but both of my mil's are great--one is very reserved and has a biological daughter who she adores, but has always made room for me and loves me and our little one very much. But, Jane and I just clicked from the beginning. She was a hippie, she loves to sew, to quilt, to knit, to cook, to eat, to shop, to garden--and because she is so welcoming in spirit and so "anything goes", I was immediately drawn to her. In some ways, though this is very difficult, I am proud of her for taking care of herself in this. Woman stay around to take care of everyone else and sometimes, they cease to exists themselves.
Thanks again, both of you.
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
| Joey |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 10:02:33 AM
Oh Nini, you said everything I was thinking and as usual, said it so much better than I ever would have. How did you get so wise so young?
And Jonni, your post was wonderful. How lucky your MIL is to have you and you are so supportive of her and the family. Maybe Violet could make something (a picture for the wall, a potholder for the kitchen?) for her grandmothers new house to welcome her there.
And never give up hope. God works in mysterious ways and you never know what is around the corner. Keeping you all in prayer, Joey
Well behaved women rarely make history. |
| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 09:18:46 AM
Thanks, Nini--your post brought me to tears. This is so difficult and I am especially sad for my step mother in law as she has shouldered this all on her own. My FIL has talked periodically with my husband since December and now and again, he will share those confidences with me and I have simply stayed quiet, waiting for her to talk or not talk, as the case may be. A "wait and see" approach. A few days ago, though, my husband asked me: "Did Jane tell you she bought a house?" And I thought he meant as investment, which they've done in the past. "No, for her to move into and leave Dad." After work yesterday, she met me with Violet and we were headed to Joann's Fabric. We drove down an alley and there were these great old stools and I said, "get those! It's trash day!" She asked me if I wanted them and I just said, "No, you take them--you're the one with the new address..." and she sighed and looked at me sadly and said, "I knew he told Justin...we agreed not to talk about it yet..." I told her that there was no pressure to talk. But, that if she needed to, I would listen to whatever she wanted to share or if she needed someone to run an errand because she couldn't get out of the bed that morning, I'd do that, too. I just wanted to make sure she knew that she was loved, that he was loved and that she didn't need to shoulder it all by herself.
She's sad, but she feels so disliked and unloved that I think her "new space" (a lovely 100 year old Queen Anne with 4 bedrooms and yard that is a blank slate for a garden) will give her some peace. So, yes, I'm going to try to make that aspect a positive one for Violet. I like your suggestions about letting her ask the questions, too, and in that regard, I can assure her of the things that are really bothering her about it and perhaps answer less emotional, more logical questions at a later time.
I am hoping that something happens to remind them both about the good things, but I won't hold my breath. From the way they have experienced love, loss, separation and blended families in the past, they will be able to maintain a semblance of the same. It really can be okay if it is different. We will all have to adjust to change at some point.
Thank you ever so much for your thoughts and prayers. This is a tough time for our family.
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
| Ninibini |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 08:40:46 AM
I'm so sorry, too, Jonni. That is so hard. I agree with Joey in that you should keep it simple. But I would go one step further and let your daughter lead your discussions, only answering questions she asks, because those are the ones most important to her little heart. And, of course, keep it gentle and keep the discussion doors open so she isn't afraid to ask. You're right - things could definitely change - you just never know. I was thinking maybe stating that "We're going to see Gramma Jane's new house today!" is better than "Gramma Jane doesn't live with PaPa anymore," you know? And when she asks why they don't live in the same house or where does Papa sleep, you can be just as gentle. Love may change over time, but that doesn't mean love dies. The change is different for different people. Maybe you can explain that this is the way Grandma and Grandpa's love has changed - that they are giving each other room to grow in their own special way. And I'm sure she will feel the discomfort of the newness of it all and the sadness everyone feels right now. It might help to explain to her that although it makes everyone feels sad that things are a different now, that Gramma Jane and Papa are both very happy and even a little bit excited about the new GOOD things that will come with this change, so everyone should be happy for them, too. Make sure she knows that you all still love each other dearly, and you're all going to still get to spend fun time together. It's just going to be a little different now, and that will take getting used to.
I think that the scariest thing for her might be that if Gramma Jane and Papa are separating, will that happen to Mommy and Daddy, too? Will Mommy and Daddy's love for each other change, too? The MOST important thing is that you and your hubby ensure that she feels the love, safety and stability of your family so she doesn't worry about the two of you and her immediate world, too. So hard. And that doesn't mean that you need to protect her from normal things like disagreements, arguments, etc. She needs to know that even though people disagree or even become angry sometimes that they still love each other. Further, she needs to learn from your example and your husband's how to be resilient, forgiving, cooperative, considerate and healing. Shielding her from stuff like that would only make things more worrisome, I think.
I'm so so sad for all of you. This must be especially painful for your husband - I feel so bad for him. But you know, as devastating as it feels right now, if everyone continues to uphold love, mutual respect and kindness, it might never be the same, but it really can be okay. Like I said, love may change over time, but I honestly don't believe it ever truly dies. :) All three of you need to know that with all your hearts.
I will be praying for all of you. I really, really will. God love, guide and bless you.
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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| FebruaryViolet |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 08:15:06 AM
Thanks, Joey--I agree that, as adults, we are overly quick to read more into situations than necessary, often trying to "over explain". Children are very succinct.
At 4, she really struggles with change, so perhaps I can make the "new house" a really positive change? My mil said she kept in mind this lovely little room off the main bedroom for Violet's room when she comes to stay. I hope that's enticing...
I will keep it simple and keep it positive and hopefully, like your daughter, she will relax a little more when she realizes that not a lot has changed other than geography.
It was already a multi-blended family in that my husband's parents divorced when he was small and then they both remarried and each had a new child, my half brother's in law, so this is really my father in law and "step mother in law" but we all spend time together as one big family because my step mil and mil became best friends (I know! We call it the nuclear fall out family :)) but it's always been such a wonderful thing for me, coming from a home where noone had the troubles that friends of mine did and to see adults behaving like adults, for the benefit of their family and children. So, now, this dynamic is new to me and just so sad.
Thanks for your help, Joey--and no, we're happy as clams in our little cottage overflowing with dogs and Violet. In times like these, I am beyond grateful and wish to never take it for granted.
"Hey, I've got nothing to do today but smile..."
The Only Living Boy in New York, Paul Simon |
| Joey |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 07:59:27 AM
I have had to deal with this too, so this is just my opinion. Keep it simple. Grown-ups tend to read so much into everything. I would tell her that her grandparents have decided not to be married anymore and that they will live in different houses but they are both still our family and we still love them and they still love her and be there for her. Then see how it goes. My daughter was sad but got over it when she realized that everyone was still there for her. I am so sorry this is happening to your family and was quite relieved that you weren't talking about you. Good luck. Joey
Well behaved women rarely make history. |
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