| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| UrbanChick |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 2:00:19 PM
First off I wanted to rant that I hate living in my subdivision, but we haven't found the perfect farm land yet that is still close enough to the city for my liking. We have submited plans to paint and we are waiting for approval. I asked to put a playhouse in the backyard and a gazebo and you can't even see it from the front of the house. It was denied. I was told no playhouses and the unweilding woman from the archtectual control committe stated that if my daughter needs a place to play she can do it inside! ARGH! They now need to do a property inspection to make sure I am within guidelines (which seems to change every year) to have my house painted. So since I can't have chickens in my subdivision I am now going to take them to the vet were I can have them boarded for the weekend so when they come to look at the property they will not be found. I still need to come up with an excuse as to why we have a coop and run in our backyard that we never got approval for, even though no one sees it. She even told me that even though people don't see gazebos and playhouses or structures from the street it dosen't mean that it dosen't pull our property values down. What property values? Boy she really fried my onions today but I have to be nice to her since she and only 4 others sit on the board and can deny even my paint color. She told me my color I chose for the house is not on the approved list so they have to discuss it. I asked for the approved list of colors and she said they haven't printed them yet but there are only 5 colors of each major paint manufacturers like Sherwin Williams, Gliden, etc. 5 colors! And my current house color (grey) is in violation so I will not be able to paint it the same color to avoid having it in discussion. And the builder painted my house this color! I'm sure they are just trying to help out the neighborhood and making sure it's a nice place to live but it's getting ridiculous. Sorry I had to rant but I'm just so mad. 
"Courage dosen't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying: I will try again tomorrow." |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| lilpunkin |
Posted - Apr 29 2007 : 8:38:07 PM
HOA are both good and bad. when we lived in more of a neighborhood we had a HOA and I didnt care for it in the least. We never knew where our dues(money) went. They would tell us that it was for mailouts, which we only received one mailout a year, asking for our dues. Crazy! it was a brand new neighborhood and they were supposedly bidding out a landscaper to do our neghborhood entrance. Well, two years later we still had no entrance, so the people of the neighborhood started asking questions about the money. All of a sudden we were putting in landscaping, mind you, the key word there is "we". Because they never hired anyone, about 10 people in the neighborhood gathered on a saturday morning and landscaped everything out. So for that HOA I didnt think it was done properly at all. We since have moved from there and are very thankful. It seems now in talking to old neighbors that the HOA doesnt seem to be keeping all of its standards. I guess it is just a way for them to profit.
Now I live out in the middle of the mountains of Colorado, and guess what? I have an HOA. UGH! LOL! Isnt that crazy? I mean the closest house is a mile away. We have 75 acres of our own land and we belong to a HOA. Now thankfully the rules are basically county regulations. But we do have some issues. Most people that are part of the HOA do not live here full time, they are part timers that live in the city most of the year, and then come here and want the HOA to be like it is in the city. Power trips!
But they are doing a vote for new board members and they are asking for my husband to run since we have one of the largest lots. he doesnt know if he really wants to do that, but it would also be nice to know what is actually going on.
In my opinion I think HOA's can be good, but the people that run them make it turn into something it was never meant to be because they get on a power trip. I appreciate some of the rules and regulations, but I dont think they should argue over shades of gray. I think that if you own your home that you should be able to do what you want. Now if you live in a gated neighborhood or something like that I understand some guidelines. I know I wouldnt want to live in a nice house and have my neighbor paint their house purple. No offense if your house is purple! ;) But telling people whether they can have an arbor or not is ridiculous.
Anyway, I am just ranting on now.
Life isn't measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments take your breath away. |
| Alee |
Posted - Apr 28 2007 : 9:44:13 PM
Ayako-
I am so glad that your house gets painted. After your description of her, I kind of feel sorry for her. It sounds like she is lonely and doesn't know how to fix it in a constructive and nice manner.
By the way- Nora adores her new blanket! Everyone who has seen it has commented on how nice it is. Thanks again!
Alee |
| UrbanChick |
Posted - Apr 28 2007 : 5:22:47 PM
Well I did my neighborly duty and place pinestraw in all the common areas. I was the only volunteer to do this that was not on the board. I did this last year and they remembered that I'm a homeowner that cares about her nieghborhood and 4 out of 5 approved of my plans but she was the hold out. I got a little taste of what she is like and she is the most micro-managing controling personallity I have ever seen. And she dosen't put things tackfully like saying "how about we do it this way." Nope not with her she will come out and say "You are doing it wrong and it looks really stupid, here let me do it because you are doing all wrong." We were just laying pinestraw down. How hard is that? So anyway, I talked with the rest of the members of the HOA and they said she is VERY controling and they actually removed her from the board once before but she begged to come back, so they let her. I think she wanted to do an inspection because we have a extra long driveway and it's secluded and she can't really see my house unless she gets onto my property which she can't, so I think she made up this excuse so she can snoop around on my property to check for violations. They didn't say anything about the coop but I'm sure I'll get a letter from the management company about it. I'm sure she was taking mental notes about my entire property. I spoke with the HOA president and I asked if she can be removed and he stated she can be voted out and he would support me if I did ask for her removal. I'll let this one sit and see if she gets under my skin some more. Apparently she lives alone, and has too much time on her hands. She talked we me briefly and stated that she drives around the neighborhood and checks for violations and I asked her, "Dosen't the management company do that?" And she said, "Yes, but I do a better job." Well there's her personallity in a nutshell for you. Anyway, it went ok and I'm going to pick a bigger battle with her later I'm sure but for now at least my house gets painted.
"Courage dosen't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying: I will try again tomorrow." |
| ponyexpress |
Posted - Apr 28 2007 : 12:06:39 PM
That's a very good idea Libbie. All too often, we are quick to complain or point out the wrong in any situation. Presenting the situation from a positive perspective may just do the trick!
I've learned that it takes as much time and energy to wish as it does to plan.
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| Libbie |
Posted - Apr 28 2007 : 08:22:08 AM
It is so interesting to me to be hearing both sides of the story - It's amazing how the same set of "rules" or "limitations" can put both the HOA and the homeowner in binds, isn't it? We run up against similar situations on our Town Council here - different folks interpret rules in different ways - it's bound to happen. I've seen some really incredible compromises arrived at out of seemingly unworkable situations, too. I used to work as a mediator in both court-sanctioned disputes as well as personal issues - and one of the key things I learned from the people I worked with is this - we all do the best we can with the combination of experience and information that we have.
So --- how would it be to go to one of the homeowners association meetings with a list of reasons you like living there - the "pros," so to speak - and tell them about those, and then tell them why what you are wanting ADDS to the "pros" of the community. ...just an idea - no guarantees !
All that said - I hope they don't notice the coop, too!!! I'm all for chickens and clotheslines ANYWHERE!!!
XOXO, Libbie
"All through the long winter, I dream of my garden. On the first day of spring, I dig my fingers deep into the soft earth. I can feel its energy, and my spirits soar..." - Helen Hayes |
| Clare |
Posted - Apr 28 2007 : 08:07:48 AM
I know when purchasing property here in a HOA community, the full handbook is given out to interested buyers first, so that they can read it. It is VERY restrictive. I could not live in one. It would be like living in a high-class prision, imho.
Humor is the prelude to faith and Laughter is the beginning of prayer. -- Reinhold Niebuhr
I want to be an "outrageous" old woman who never gets called an old lady. I want to be wiser, resonate love & peace and be earth-colored, till I fade away from pure joy!
http://farmstyle.blogspot.com
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| ThymeForEweFarm |
Posted - Apr 28 2007 : 07:50:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mima
Um, I think some people think clotheslines are white trash or something stupid like that.Tho now people are(hopefully) becoming more aware of the enviroment, maybe that way of thinking is changing! As far as being caught with chickens ,I guess worst case senario is that we would have to give them away to people who can keep chickens. ( This is a pretty rural area!)I think I' ll give it a shot and see what happens! Oh the scandal of it all!!! LOL!!
You rebel! lol Heck, if the worst that happens is you give away some chickens, I say try your luck with a cow too.  Ok...maybe not a cow!
Robin
www.outdoorwriter.wordpress.com
www.thymeforewe.com
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| ponyexpress |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 3:27:48 PM
Amie - what a good idea about reading the minutes of the association's meetings. That would certainly give you a good idea of the personality of the HOA.
I'm sure many of my neighbors consider me weird as well. Our basement is fully finished so I don't have any place for "messy play." Weather permitting, I can usually be found outside dyeing wool or fabric, painting furniture, making felt, or a host of other messy activities. I always clean up by the end of the day and so far no one has complained -- at least not to my face. I do sometimes hear, "NOW what are you doing?" But it is usually curiousity rather than criticism.
In all honesty, community living is not my cup of tea, but I'm here and trying to make the best of it.
I've learned that it takes as much time and energy to wish as it does to plan.
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| mima |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 3:13:50 PM
Um, I think some people think clotheslines are white trash or something stupid like that.Tho now people are(hopefully) becoming more aware of the enviroment, maybe that way of thinking is changing! As far as being caught with chickens ,I guess worst case senario is that we would have to give them away to people who can keep chickens. ( This is a pretty rural area!)I think I' ll give it a shot and see what happens! Oh the scandal of it all!!! LOL!! |
| therusticcottage |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 2:40:41 PM
It has always been beyond me why clotheslines aren't allowed. I can understand some rules in order to maintain and a clean appearance in the neighborhood. But no clotheslines? Guess they aren't "high class" enough for some people! The neighborhood we lived in when we were in town was getting kind of seedy when we moved due to lots of rentals. It would have been nice to have a few rules there about keeping things cleaned up.
I have a friend who lives in the "ritzy" neighborhood in our small town. They have a very strict HOA and she loves it. But I know that it makes her ego feel good to say "HOA". In fact, that whole neighborhood acts like it isn't even part of our town. Lots of rich people who think they're all that.
That's why I'm living the country life for now!
Visit my Etsy shop at http://therusticcottage.etsy.com OR www.annarosetta.com
http://therusticcottage.blogspot.com/ |
| ThymeForEweFarm |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 1:49:50 PM
This has been an eye opener. I knew HOA's were restrictive but I didn't realize how much so. A lot has changed since I lived in a ruled community 20+ years ago. We couldn't put our trash out the night before trash pickup, no unlicensed/unregistered vehicles, maintain our light pole in our yard (served as community lighting, everyone had one), no barking dogs, don't do things that attract vermin.
Mima, why can't you have a clothesline? And what happens if you get caught with the chickens?
Robin
www.outdoorwriter.wordpress.com
www.thymeforewe.com
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| Amie C. |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 1:45:11 PM
Sandy, I think you make some good points about communication. My inlaws could have done a better job researching the "culture" of the community and the HOA before they bought the house. Most of the things they got in trouble over were not technically against the rules, they were just considered weird by the neighbors. I read an article just recently that said the majority of people who buy houses in a HOA are not aware of how much the rules will affect them. Everyone assumes that the rules will be "reasonable", but that means different things to different people. What's normal for one person is shocking to others (like mowing the lawn in your undies!) The article also recommended that prospective buyers should look at the minutes of the association meetings for the past year to see what kind of issues come up regularly and how they are handled.
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| Kathie |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 1:25:57 PM
Mima your such a rebel!!
i love it!!
In a World Where you Can Be Anything, Be Yourself.. |
| mima |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 12:11:46 PM
Pssst....if you don't tell anyone my secret! I'm going to have a clothesline AND chickens. Both against HOA rules! I don't think my neighbors on either side of me would care, plus we have a fence! So just don't tell okay??? |
| bramble |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 10:56:12 AM
There are always two sides to a situation and I am usually the person who ends up right in the middle listening to both!
Ayoko- You have my sympathies, sometimes small minded people do take what little power they are given and misuse it. For heavens sake , you weren't requesting a grenade launcher for the back yard! What could be wrong with a play set? Sadly, we aren't allowed chickens either but two blocks away? You bet! Don't ask! You could have my neighbor who mows in his tidy whiteys! Now why aren't there any HOA regs about THAT?!!!
Sandy- Having dealt with HOA as a landscape designer was always an experience. Usually by the time something got approved the seasons had changed! I do understand esthetics and continuity but a community thrives on individuals as well and there does have to be some "give" as you sound like your group has found. Patience is a virtue not wasted, hope it becomes easier!
We ran into a problem when we lived in a historic district and the north porch was literally falling off the house. For two years we dealt with HARB (Historical/Architectural Review Board) and met with nothing but grief from one individual. Well the final straw came when the Zoning and Building Inspectors went to the meeting FOR us and said that if this wasn't passed that night they would testify in court on our behalf. My husband restores old homes (Think Norm from This Old House) so everything we were doing was appropriate, accurate and actually better than what had been there. It came down to one woman being the hold out and we couldn't figure out why. Later we were told her daughter had tried to buy our house after we had bid but the owner liked us better and took our offer! Sometimes you just don't know what is really going on with someone ! And it does affect their judgement and decision making! Sorry you are dealing with this on top of caring for your daughters special needs.
I will hold good thoughts for you! Somewhere out there is your perfect spot, or pretty darn close to it!
with a happy heart |
| Kathie |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 10:13:56 AM
i have a fantastic idea!
Maybe what each new subdivision should do is give each new home owner a list of which Home Store carries the accepetable color pallate of beige for their houses .. As well as where they may purchase any new plantings..
& when they arrive at the store they can give them a print out for each subdivision as to what has been deemed acceptable.. ( by whom ever voted these colors & plants in..)
Then they can stop by on their way out for their retina scanning to confirm their accurate purchases..
this will leave no room for error..
In a World Where you Can Be Anything, Be Yourself.. |
| lamamama |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 09:54:44 AM
Ayako, you have my sympathy as you try to deal with this difficult situation. And you certainly have a right to vent!
I wish you patience, & the best of luck.
Most of all, I hope that you will find someplace new & better - SOON. As Robin wrote, perhaps something less than perfect is better than dealing with your current HOA. Just a thought.......
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| ponyexpress |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 06:53:36 AM
We have found that communication, or lack of communication, is the source of many problems. Minutes of every Board meeting are distributed to each homeowner, along with a copy of that month's financial statement. When I was taking minutes, I tried to include the practical information that supported any decision made so everyone would understand the reasoning behind a decision.
I always tried to be fair and objective. Frankly, I didn't care that everything looked absolutely uniform, only that it be in good taste and neat. But still there will be those who insist on strict adherence to the rules, no exceptions.
As far as the seniors being intolerant and inflexible, I think it is part of the aging process and has a little to do with loss of independence and respect. Another homeowner who made my life a living **** is well into her eighties, still sharp, but spends every waking moment researching ways in which the Board is deficient. She was not satisfied unless each issue ended with "I am right and you are wrong" solution. I was at my wit's end and even consulted my psychology professor for advice on how to approach her. He said that as we age, we tend to feel that we are dismissed or that our opinions are not taken seriously because we are elderly. The loss of independence, either by leaving a job or leaving a home, can make people act out in an effort to assert that they still have something of value to contribute. Some seniors handle it better than others, I suppose.
When a person moves from a house/home in a neighborhood or area where they were free to do as they pleased into a community living situation, there are tremendous adjustments that have to be made. Trust me, I know. We moved into our townhome three years ago -- we are not seniors, but the transition was difficult. It still is challenging on so many levels. There is much freedom that you give up in exchange for the "easier" lifestyle of community living. Not everyone makes the transition smoothly -- some never do.
There will always be friction when there is a situation where the needs of the community override the needs of the individual. Again, communication is a key element. The Board should communicate regularly with the homeowners, either through minutes of the meetings or a newsletter or both.
Ayako, we get minimal turnout at our annual meetings as well. However, if there is a vote scheduled, the homeowners are given informational packets and are asked to sign a proxy if they cannot attend. Some votes do not require a majority, but only that a quorum be filled which is specific percentage outlined in your Indentures. The Indentures should also identify how many people should make up the Board, what the term is, and how elections are held. You might find it interesting and challenging to serve on the Architectural Review Board and give a little balance to this woman's autocratic style of management.
I've learned that it takes as much time and energy to wish as it does to plan.
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| Amie C. |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 05:33:47 AM
Don't get me started on Homeowner's Associations. The HOA that my in-laws were ruled by made my life miserable and it wasn't even my house. The big problem was that they weren't given a copy of the rules until after their house was built and they had moved in. They knew that there was an association, of course, but they assumed that it would only affect things like outdoor building features and house color. As it turned out, the other people in the retirement community were using the HOA to enforce absolute uniformity of appearance and lifestyle. My in-laws were very independent country people, and they were absolutely mortified when their neighbors started coming by and telling them that the way they did things was wrong. Things like keeping a trash can outside the garage to hold lawn clippings, or leaving the wheelbarrow on the patio overnight occasionally. The real issue was that everyone else in the neighborhood used a landscaping service and they wanted my in-laws' yard to look the same.
But things really got ugly when my husband and I came to stay for the summer vacation. (My husband was in school out of state when his parents sold the family home and moved into this retirement community.) We hadn't been there a week before my mil started hearing nasty gossip, and soon a committee from the HOA came to investigate who we were and what we thought we were doing. This was when my inlaws were made aware of the book of rules. According to the written rule, overnight guests were only allowed to stay for 60 consecutive nights. Well, that's a summer vacation, right? So no problem? Oh, no. These people didn't leave us alone the whole time we were there. Everytime my inlaws went outdoors, someone would accost them to ask when we were leaving and remind them that we couldn't move in with them. I still don't understand why they hated us so much. Maybe it was our rusty old car sitting in the driveway, bringing down property values!
The best part is that after we went back to school they still thought we were there. My inlaws got a letter threatening them with a lawsuit about three weeks after we had left. And what was the date on that letter? September 12, 2001. You would think they would have had more important things on their minds on that date. And later in the fall, some kid in a neighboring subdivision threw a loud party and the HOA came to investigate my inlaws house, asking if their son was still around. My husband is a grown man in his 30s, working on a masters degree!
I really just don't get it. I always liked and respected old people when I was growing up, so I was very disappointed in their behavior. I think maybe the current crop of seniors is not as cool as they used to be. But I think something happens to people when they become obsessed with real estate. My theory is that each of these neighbors would have preferred to live in a private gated estate, and since they could not afford that, they formed the HOA to police their surroundings and ensure that they would never be confronted with anything that didn't fit their own preferences.
Sorry to go on so long, but this topic really hits a nerve with me.
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| windypines |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 04:24:24 AM
Oh my gosh, all this talk just blows me away. I would of never guessed all this is possible. Good thing I live where I do, I could never put up with all the rules. Michele |
| UrbanChick |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 04:09:08 AM
I understand how you must feel. I even volunteered at the last board meeting to be on the HOA board. They haven't called me yet so I figured they wanted to get this out of the way first or they were happy with just 5 on the board. We never have enough voters to make any decision a majority (we needed 30 neighbors we got 7 at our last meeting) so what they decide budget wise for the whole community technically dosen't count but no one knows that, just the 7 that attended. I'm volunteering this weekend for a neighborhood beautification and I spoke with the president and he is much more reasonable. He told me this lady was not at the board meeting but they handed her my request since she is the head of the architechtual committee. Apparently rest of the HOA board thought it was fine and he didn't know that she contacted me to "look into" my property. He thought it was approved, so he will come on Saturday to my house as well as our rep from the management company to referee the situation since he knows this woman can get out of hand. He apoligized for this woman and her comments and stated that he will be the voice of reason of the HOA board on saturday. So I feel good about this and the "girls" do get a vacation at the vet office for boarding. So hopefully we will have a win-win situation and I can report back on my progress. I just hate it when things get out of hand when they shouldn't have been but I guess people are people and I have to learn that some think differently from me.
"Courage dosen't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying: I will try again tomorrow." |
| Alee |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 9:11:50 PM
Sandy-
Thanks for the perspective from the "other side". I can see how that would be a thankless task and I bet it takes up a lot of your free time. Perhaps if people just remembered that being "neighborly" is synonymous with being friendly and helpful, those situations wouldn't get as nasty. *hugs*
Alee |
| ponyexpress |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 8:29:46 PM
Oh P.S. Most of our homeowners are retired, or semi-retired (makes me feel like a spring chicken around here!) but one lady had adopted a boy she had fostered for a few years. Now, she is single and in her 50's and I give her a LOT of credit. She had requested a basketball hoop for her son - eight years old at the time. Public sentiment leaned toward denial, but we compromised. The basketball hoop is one of the portable ones, weighted on the bottom, rather than installed on the building and we asked that he and his friends not play and/or be rowdy after 9:00 pm. It was a win/win situation.
So, we're not all bad, all the time!
I've learned that it takes as much time and energy to wish as it does to plan.
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| ponyexpress |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 8:23:48 PM
Alee - the indentures of a subdivision do have legal merit if they were legally drawn up, signed, notarized and recorded with the city/county. Any changes to the original indentures must be approved by a majority vote. That is why it is so very important to inquire if any home or property you are looking to purchase is governed by specific rules and regulations. Read them carefully and ask for clarification of any unclear areas.
Having just finished a three year term on our Homeowners Association Board - two years as the President, I can tell you it is a thankless, difficult job. You become the lightning rod for anyone with a comment, complaint, challenge, issue, or opinion. Anything that is wrong with a homeowner's property becomes YOUR problem. Some who serve on the Board do take it a bit too seriously...but in all fairness, it is the Board's job to uphold the intention of the indentures. Many times, the wording is ambiguous and the Board has to interpret and make a decision. If a homeowner disagrees with the Board's decision, the Board takes the heat.
Case in point: We live in a small community of townhomes - 39 units. In this case, two homeowners share a common patio, and were not "playing nicely." One submitted a request to the Board to replace a small fence with a longer fence for more privacy and expected an immediate approval, stating that the Board could not dictate what she could or could not do on her own property. The Board requested that she obtain a survey to verify the property lines. She refused, and so we refused. It turns out that the fence that she wanted to replace was NOT her fence - it belonged to the neighbor. She knew of the shared patio when she purchased the home, she did not obtain a survey, and she was aware of the indentures. Nonetheless, it became the Board's fault that she cannot "feel comfortable in her own home" and she has begun a campaign to discredit every member of the Board, including verbal attacks, messages left on answering machines and negative emails.
We requested input from our attorney and his advice was that the Board has every right to approve or disapprove any request made to alter the exterior appearance of a home. However, the decision must be made on sound reasoning based on the existing rules and regulations and must consider the overall appearance of the subdivision and the continuity of appearance.
I'm not saying that all Boards operate in a strictly objective manner. That is why it is important to be informed before you purchase, stay informed of the current happenings, and volunteer your time to serve if you feel that the direction of the Board is incorrect.
I don't mean to rant, but I'm still stinging just a bit from all the controversy and bitterness stirred up by just a few unhappy people.
Ayako, I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time. If this Board is dragging their feet in responding to your requests, check your indentures. Ours require a response within 30 days of submitting the request or it is automatically considered approved.
I've learned that it takes as much time and energy to wish as it does to plan.
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| Alee |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 5:02:09 PM
I wonder how homeowner associations get away with all the rules and regulations they give out. Unless it is a city ordinance- do their orders have any legal merit? I would think that if you own your own land and house they wouldn't be able to say anything about what you do in your own property. I know that isn't how it is for some homeowner associations, but I guess I don't understand how they legally get away with bossing everyone around.
Ayako- I hope you find your dream land here soon- You deserve it.
Alee
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