| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Leezard |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 04:13:11 AM
My parents are working on getting their farm certified organic. Has anyone gone through this process before? What do you produce on your farm?
This morning my mom and I are going to a meeting put on by Organic Valley to see what they are all about and how it would work with what they plan to do with their farm. Right now they raise Angus beef cows but they'd like to milk cows, possibly instead of the beef but also they may do both. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Libbie |
Posted - Nov 21 2006 : 8:17:23 PM
I just thought I'd share a couple of my favorite organic links as of late - they really have some great information! USDA's link for the Organic Certification page: [http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navid=ORGANIC_CERTIFICATIO&parentnav=AGRICULTURE&navtype=RT] and the National Sustainable Agriculture Information Service: [http://attra.ncat.org/]. I hope they're interesting and helpful to you gals, too!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| jo Thompson |
Posted - Oct 01 2006 : 4:35:28 PM
I haven't been on the board in a while and really enjoyed this latest topic and group of postings. This is what drew me to Mary Jane in the beginning. Marianne is right about the fertilizers as well, there are so many residues in fertilizers, gosh do you know what goes into that stuff! There is a wonderful book out by Jeff Lowenfel called "Teaming with Microbes". It is a wonderful book and starts with soil and what healthy soil consists of. There is a website also, it talks about how compost tea restores natural balance to your soil. I've learned alot about organic gardening through Jeff. He is a local here in Anchorage, we started out by following his practices in our lawn, we have all these mushrooms growing beneath the birch trees and found out that it means we're doing something right! They live and nurture one another, our trees look fabulous this year.
My hats off to all of you organic girls, and it's refreshing to see you all write about it here............ jo
http://www.intlctc.org This is the site called The International Compost Tea Council, it is definitely the basis for sustainable organic farming.
"friends don't let friends eat farmed salmon"
http://homepage.mac.com/thomja/Anchorage/PhotoAlbum14.html |
| Libbie |
Posted - Sep 30 2006 : 10:35:53 PM
What kind of recordkeeping do you all who are certified or working toward certification do? I was wanting to start keeping track of things in the "right" way, but I'm not quite sure where to start...
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| farmgirlfriday |
Posted - Sep 27 2006 : 6:05:27 PM
Thanks for the topic! I am finding it a very interesting conversation!
"it's a bloody mary morning" |
| Mari-dahlia |
Posted - Sep 19 2006 : 09:31:25 AM
liz,
We grow blueberries, strawberries (needs improvement), raspberries, black berries, gooseberries, currants ( making a comeback in the market). |
| BarefootGoatGirl |
Posted - Sep 18 2006 : 2:30:23 PM
A great topic! Thanks for all the info. I have enjoyed reading everybodys experiences and opinions. I am especially greatful for the organic pest control link, my garden suffered horrably from bugs this summer.
'
Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. Proverbs 27:23 |
| Phils Ann |
Posted - Sep 17 2006 : 09:42:44 AM
I, too, want to thank you all who know lots more than I do! This information is very important to me, and it's a topic I'm trying to seek out information-- I want whatever we do with our land to be an improvement. I switched to Organic Valley some months back due to a link in these pages for Cornucopia.org/dairysurvey. Education makes a huge difference.
Blessings,
Ann
There is a Redeemer. |
| Leezard |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 8:23:09 PM
Glad to help you out Libbie! :) |
| Libbie |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 7:56:38 PM
Thanks for the link to Organic Valley - I'm excited to check them out to see just what they do! This is all such interesting information (I know I said that before, but it really is!)...
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| Leezard |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 11:56:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by brightmeadow
Our farm is on the west side of Michigan (but we live in Ohio) it is my husband's inherited family farm. He hasn't actually farmed since his uncle passed away but there are a few fruit trees on the property and some years he grows sweet corn. I think it should be easy to prove we haven't used any chemicals for 10 years or more so we would only have to certify our current operations if we go the certified organic route. We plan to move there when we retire. Any information (web links, agencies, etc.)you find about getting certified Organic in Michigan would be interesting to me if you post it here. Of course I'm willing to do research too but sometimes pointers to the right places are helpful.
I'm more than willing to answer any questions I am able to :) My parent's farm is in Michigan as well but more in the middle of the state. From the meeting yesterday I understand that Global Organic Alliance is one of the best certifiers in our area. http://www.goa-online.org/ If you have records proving that you've not used any chemicals and such on your land for the past 3 or so years then you may not have to go through the lengthly process. If you're looking to do anything on the larger scale, beyond marketing on your own, you may want to look into Organic Valley as they do veggies, fruit, meat and the like as well as dairy. http://organicvalley.coop/
If you have any other questions please feel free to ask and I'll try to help in any way I can :) |
| Leezard |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 11:46:10 AM
Thank you for your input Marianne! :) I am glad to see that others have a similar view of Organic Valley. Sometimes you get one view based on what you're told driectly but then find out differently from other's experiences, nice to know that doesn't appear to be the case here! Unfortunately it is just too cost prohibitive for most family farms to bottle and market their own milk, I know that's something we'd love to do if it was possible. What kind of berries do you grow?
Di- Because of the records of what's been used on their ground, my parents will be certified organic within a year as well. My dad is quite a stickler on keeping very accurate and up to date records and that sure seemed to help them with becoming certified. I am curious if that's what Marianne has gone through as well with having all her records of only organic practices for the past 3+ years. I can understand that if you're doing something like market gardening or selling eggs it sure wouldn't be very cost effective to go through this process! Glad you're able to make it doing as you are, it's fun to hear of others who are making their smaller farming a go today. :) |
| Mari-dahlia |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 11:43:11 AM
Diane,
It only took me a year but I have been organic forever. I have lived here 3 1/2 years and have been organic on this land and the people before me did nothing to the property and used no pesticides or fertilizers for the 25 years previous. As long as you can document that, you don't have a problem.
The certification cost me about 575 dollars, no matter how much or little I plan on selling. The base is 575 and as you sell more than 5,000 it goes up.
My chickens are organic just not certified. If I had used chemicals here or if I had just bought the property from someone who had, the process would take as long as you said.
One part of my farm can be certified and not another but one part cannot be not organic.
The money and paperwork is not worth it for me either. The people in this area do not care if it is organic or not and will not pay the higher price. I also have a hard time sticking to my prices. I like everyone to be able to afford my stuff, so I am cheap.
I will probably not go through the organic certification process next year and jion the FArm Pledge instead. Where I pledge that I am organic and I pay no one.
Marianne |
| DaisyFarm |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 09:03:51 AM
Marianne, it only took you a year to be certified? It takes four years here, three in transition and one year for certification. Most certifying bodies prohibit one part of your farm as certified and not another, it's either all or nothing. Do you pay annual fees? Here we pay a sliding scale of $50 to $500 based on your gross sales. This doesn't include the application and certification fees, plus $100 inspection fee, $45/hr inspection costs to the verifying officer (paid double if he must re-inspect), etc.
If I wanted to sell milk, it would be a whole different picture. But for me as a small market garden and egg seller, it's just not worth the expense and headache. Like Libbie, my customers are welcome here at any time to look around and ask questions. Mostly, they just ask how to make good compost!
Di |
| Mari-dahlia |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 07:01:06 AM
Liz,
I got my organic certification this year. It took a year or so of organizing and doing paperwork, going to conferences and such. Organic Valley is a great company! They have saved alot of dairy farmers and have really good ethics. They were at our NOFA conference in January. (Northeast Organic FArmers Association) They are our certifying agency. AS long as you have been using organic prctices, the process is not a huge problem except for the paperwork. The paperwork is overwhelming and the certifying agency does not help much.
The process is pretty much the same nationwide because it is a USDA program, nothing really to do with the State level. I grow vegetables mostly, I have chickens but I don't certify them. I sell my eggs for 2.00 a dozen and the area won't support a Cert. Organic price so I don't bother with the extra paperwork.
Even the Certified dairy farmers I know only pay their bills, for the first time maybe, but that's it. Dairy is alot of work and not much return, although the dairy industry in organics is growing faster than anything else. The money is in retail and the equipment to process your own milk is usually cost prohibitive making most of the dairy industry wholesale.
My biggest seller this year was berries, any kind. They provide for the biggest markup and for the most part are trouble free, (not like trying to grow apples). People don't even think twice about spending anywhere from 3-5 dollars on berries where any other product just would not sell. Picking is tedious and they don't have a great shelf life but you usually sell out.
Good Luck
Marianne |
| brightmeadow |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 02:08:55 AM
Liz-
Our farm is on the west side of Michigan (but we live in Ohio) it is my husband's inherited family farm. He hasn't actually farmed since his uncle passed away but there are a few fruit trees on the property and some years he grows sweet corn. I think it should be easy to prove we haven't used any chemicals for 10 years or more so we would only have to certify our current operations if we go the certified organic route. We plan to move there when we retire. Any information (web links, agencies, etc.)you find about getting certified Organic in Michigan would be interesting to me if you post it here. Of course I'm willing to do research too but sometimes pointers to the right places are helpful.
You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands - You shall be happy and it shall be well with you. -Psalm 128.2
Visit my blog at http://brightmeadowfarms.blogspot.com ,web site store at http://www.watkinsonline.com/fish or my homepage at http://home.earthlink.net/~brightmeadow |
| ThymeForEweFarm |
Posted - Sep 14 2006 : 02:05:03 AM
quote:
Being an organic farm is more than not using herbicides, pesticides, etc. It also is being sustainable and taking care of the soil that you grow in, ie putting more into your soil each year than you take out.
I realized this morning that I didn't reply to this. Organic farms and often do use herbicides and pesticides. We aren't without these defenses against weeds and pests. We use organic herbicides and pesticides only. This might be helpful to gardeners. http://www.farm-garden.com/marketfarmer/organic_pest_control
Robin
www.thymeforewe.com
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| Leezard |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 6:57:14 PM
That's great that you're able to do that! It's not always an easy thing to do but it sounds like you guys are doing well with it. What kinds of fiber creations did you enter in the fair? |
| GaiasRose |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 6:52:26 PM
Liz.....
We are as organic by all standards as we can be given how rural we are. Our farming practices are 100% organic. I entered organic fiber creations in the fair, and on and on. We work hard to buy locally just about everything and go a step further to try to implement organic into every area of our life from socks to shirts to seed.
"I would not interfere with any creed of yours or want to appear that I have all the cures. There is so much to know...so many things are true. The way my feet must go may not be best for you. And so I give this spark of what is light to me, to guide you through the dark, but not tell you
what you must see."
-Author Unknown
"Contradiction is not a sign of falsity, nor the lack of contradiction a sign of truth."
— Blaise Pascal
*~*Birth is SAFE Interferance is RISKY. TRUST BIRTH*~*
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose |
| Leezard |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 6:48:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DaisyFarm
Being an organic farm is more than not using herbicides, pesticides, etc. It also is being sustainable and taking care of the soil that you grow in, ie putting more into your soil each year than you take out.
So I guess my question is, why do you want to be certified? Is it worth the hassle and expense to be so?
Of course that's what organic is and Organic Valley promotes that ideal. Along with information about the co-op they had a session about pasture and ways to sustain your land properly with the animals grazing on it. No, not all organic companies hold this ideal but this one appears to.
And to answer your questions, at this point there is no other way for my parents to sell their organic milk as a small family farm and Organic Valley appears to be an excelent organic co-op that applies strict organic standards to their farmers and sells great products. Yes, I know that there are companies that make a joke out of what my belief of organic is and that is too bad but I don't know of a way to stop that at this point beyond contacting my politicians and telling them I want the standards to be raised. Thanks for sharing your opinion. :)
Thank you so much Robin for the links! I'm looking forward to checking them out more in depth, it looks like a great farm. Thank you also for you vote of confidence. :)
Yes Libbie, Organic Valley is a co-op and seem to be very interested in taking care of their farmers and helping out the family farms. What kind of farm do you have? One thing that was hammered home today was to really get to know your certifier and make sure they are following the regulations strictly. As Robin mentioned, there are ones who are very lax but when it comes to being involved in something like Organic Valley you've got to be up to their standard so if your certifier isn't as strict that could cause problems for you. |
| Libbie |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 5:58:33 PM
This is such an interesting topic and you all have such great information and viewpoints. I'm working on getting my farm certified organic, and all of the discussions/information are so helpful. I buy Organic Valley milk - but I didn't know that much about the company. It's good to know that they are a "good" organic company. Are they a co-op of sorts?
I think that for me, I'll probably go ahead with the USDA paperwork and hope that the program stiffens up its standards. I'll also go ahead and invite people to the farm, as Robin and Tasha have said - to see that I am doing things to their and my standards, which are higher than the USDA's a the moment. This is all so interesting.
Keep up the good info. and discussion - it's an important topic for those of us with farms!!! Thank you!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| ThymeForEweFarm |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 4:36:16 PM
quote:
Being an organic farm is more than not using herbicides, pesticides, etc. It also is being sustainable and taking care of the soil that you grow in, ie putting more into your soil each year than you take out.
I am 100% organic on my farm, but not certified, for a couple of reasons...one, as Tasha says, I don't want or need any inspectors snooping around my farm. I can sleep at night knowing that I am honest and truthful with my customers.
I want to reply to this separately from my reply to Liz. My farm is also organic. I sell locally only with the exception of Christmas wreaths, which are also organic but are shipped around the country. We aren't certified. Our customers are welcome here. They can see what we're doing and how we're doing it. That's good enough for them. They know where they're food comes from.
The certifier in my state shows up once a year. I have no problem with the certifier here. They follow the law. They're great people. You can do anything you want to do the other 364 days a year. You can put down as many synthetic herbicides, pesticides and anything else you want. The USDA doesn't require any tests for the soil or the food grown. It can be grown any way you want to grow it and USDA certified organic because there is no testing. It's unfortunate. It used to be a good program.
Would I become certified to become an Organic Valley farm? Yes. I have a lot of faith in those farmers. I'd bite the bullet, deal with the paperwork, the inspectors and the rest, and I'd still welcome my customers to my farm so that they knew how their food was being raised.
Robin
www.thymeforewe.com
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| ThymeForEweFarm |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 4:24:01 PM
Liz, you'll enjoy this site. http://www.nezinscotfarm.com/ I went to a hands-on experiential weekend at Nezinscott Farm. They have a dairy, store, vegetables, meats, bakery and more. They're incredible. They are Organic Valley farmers. I don't like what the USDA has done TO "organic" but what this farm and others like it have done FOR organic is wonderful.
When you're done oohing and ahhing over the farm's website you can spend some time being thoroughly impressed with what Gloria, the co-owner of the farm, does in one day. http://moomom.com/create/glorias_garden.php Be sure to click on Move Over Martha! It's All About Gloria. She is the most inspiring women in agriculture I've ever met.
Good luck! We need more organic farms and a lot fewer factory farms.
Robin
www.thymeforewe.com
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| DaisyFarm |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 2:38:05 PM
Sadly, big corporations are now getting involved because of the huge profit to be made. Thus, "organic" is becoming a commodity market. One corp. that comes to mind is Kraft who successfully petitioned the US government to relax the organic standards to that they could compete. Also, North America imports many "organic" products from other countries. Who sets the standards for those imports?
Being an organic farm is more than not using herbicides, pesticides, etc. It also is being sustainable and taking care of the soil that you grow in, ie putting more into your soil each year than you take out.
I am 100% organic on my farm, but not certified, for a couple of reasons...one, as Tasha says, I don't want or need any inspectors snooping around my farm. I can sleep at night knowing that I am honest and truthful with my customers.
Secondly, I plain can't afford the fees here. It is prohibitively expensive. I do sell as "non-certified organic" and have found that folks are willing to believe me and accept that. On a couple of occasions I have been questioned indepth, and am always upfront with customers.
So I guess my question is, why do you want to be certified? Is it worth the hassle and expense to be so?
Di
http://www.daisyfarm.blogspot.com |
| Leezard |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 2:23:08 PM
Betty, what a small world :) It's always interesting when you come across people with friends and family close by.
That's neat that you're looking into doing something organic. It's nice to have people close by who've had experience with something similar like it sounds your neighbor has, hopefully that will help you out a lot. Feel free to let me know how things are going with you on your quest!
*GaiasRose, that's good that it's working out for your family like that! I do agree that some farms who are "certified" are clearly not fulfilling what my belief of organic is but I don't think that all who are certified are. Are you all an organic family, do you purchase only organic?*
Organic Valley appears to have some strict standards, beyond what the government standards are and they are very much about the family farmers. That all works for my family's farm at this point, I suppose if I knew of another way to produce and market organic milk that'd be something to present to them but as of now I've not heard of any other way. I was also very impressed with them not being interested in being the price leader or getting the highest price for their farmers. They were very clear that if a farmer was looking to make the most money then this co-op would not be for them. I like the idea that they are driven by the farmer and really have a mission to help the little guy while being environmentally friendly and having healthy land that the animals live on. |
| GaiasRose |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 1:55:20 PM
We grow organically, and we can sell our goods as Organic at farmer's market, we cannot, however, claim "certified organic" even if our seed is, because our farm is not ceritified organic, nor do we want it to be for a number of reasons:
1)we think that the current government is cause for concern to small farmers like us
2)we don't want gov't officials from the USDA doing inspections and such because we enjoy our privacy
3)we believe that the "certified organic" status is severly perverted anymore. WE are sort of purists in that regard. If it travelled across the country, IMHO, it isn't organic. Organic to us is local only....Just my two cents.
"I would not interfere with any creed of yours or want to appear that I have all the cures. There is so much to know...so many things are true. The way my feet must go may not be best for you. And so I give this spark of what is light to me, to guide you through the dark, but not tell you
what you must see."
-Author Unknown
"Contradiction is not a sign of falsity, nor the lack of contradiction a sign of truth."
— Blaise Pascal
*~*Birth is SAFE Interferance is RISKY. TRUST BIRTH*~*
~*~Brightest Blessings~*~
Tasha-Rose |
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